There is only one correct path in life

[Worthless loser]

If you're not groomed for success from an early age, you're going to be miserable. There is only one correct path in life: loving and responsible parents encourage you to perform well in school, get you tutors, force you to do extra curriculars that will look good on your transcript. You must get into a good college (top 10) and from there you must pick the correct major - one of the ones that leads to a high paying job in law, finance, medicine, or to some degrees, tech. Then you're good and will have a good life.

If there are ANY missteps along the way, then you're fucked. There's no way to come back from mistakes. You have to do things perfectly. Of course, this all assumes that you are physically healthy - got all your limbs, no serious diseases or disorders, etc.

Anyways, money is everything in life. If you're not well on your way to becoming a winner by the age of 13 or so, then your life is already over.

 

[Superdeterminist]

I'm not going to say you're 100% right, but honestly it's a compelling case you've made and it's hard to disagree with, because that's exactly how it feels. It's cutthroat and merciless.

 

[WornOutLife]

Well, I don't actually agree.

I have a friend who hasn't finished high school and he earns a lot of money now.
He just started watching programming videos on YouTube (JAVA) and he's working as a freelancer programmer now!

Also, I have another friend from Venezuela (you know things are hell there, even if you have a degree) who makes a living by completing online surveys and captcha!

As long as you have the strength to do it and really consider every single possibility, you can improve things.

However, depression and suicidal thoughts love to make everything harder.

 

[TheAmazingCriswell]

Well, I have loving and responsible parents, come from an upper-middle-class background in a rich western country, did well in school and even have a degree in a STEM field, and on top of that I am neither physically nor mentally ill (although I might be slightly on the spectrum), but my presence on this forum should be indicative of me failing in life regardless of the enormous head-start I had.

 

[motel rooms]

If you're not groomed for success from an early age, you're going to be miserable.

Anyways, money is everything in life. If you're not well on your way to becoming a winner by the age of 13 or so, then your life is already over.

Sorry, but I don't agree with that sick Anglo logic either... What a human being needs is health, love & acceptance from their family & friends, enough food & a decent place to stay

I am neither physically nor mentally ill (although I might be slightly on the spectrum)

If you're physically healthy, suicidality is a symptom of a mental problem. Please don't tell me you wanna ctb for purely philosophical reasons cause that ain't a real thing

 

[omoidarui]

Honestly i think the people with the best lives are those who don't work all that hard and at least enjoy youth and die a hero or somethin in twenties or thirties

To be what is considered "successful", to have an aspiring career still means being a slave to the system that much more, for that much longer. And because we all die eventually anyway you're still on the conveyer belt to hell all the while.

 

[fishtacos4me]

I was raised in a family that taught that crap - that there was only one right way to do things. The result is totally disempowering, discouraging, and feels hopeless.
It turned me into one of those perfectionists that did nothing unless I could do it perfectly, which means I did very little.

I overcame most of the perfectionism, it still hits me sometimes.

Money does seem to be everything, though I have decided to not measure my own personal success in dollars. I've worked for over 40 years and I will not be able to stop until I'm dead, and it SUCKS!
. . . but today, success means:

getting to a dentist appointment on time - this is a major challenge for me and I did it!
getting one project out of my inbox - working on it
feed my fish and clean the glass - this is actually something I look forward to
do a load of laundry -

I may or may not get all this done. If I do get it done today - I will count it as success. If I finish it tomorrow - I will still count it as success.

Somedays, having survived another day is success.
...and like everyone, I have a finite number of days here on Earth. They can only keep me here so long even if I lived to be very old. So every day completed is one less day of suffering left for me to endure.

 

[whywere]

I will never live too see it, I am 65 years young, but like in some sci-fi tv shows and movies, someday, maybe just maybe, we will "learn" to live and be progressive without money and being greedy. Now I know that greed is part of SI in a human but hopefully in the future we can evolve. One should be able to dream huge and live life huge without worrying at least about basic necessaries of life. Walter

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

A successful person is not generally what it's portrayed to me. I consider someone who brutally murders an invading soldier with an IED much more of a success than the average 9-5 corporate drones

no tears for dead resource thieves

 

[NeverReallyHere]

I did an art degree, goofed off for most of it, and now I work in tech and my work is one of the few aspects of my life which isn't shit (probably be dead without it TBH). The idea that if you don't perform academically your life is over is just propaganda, spread by the institutions and industries which benefit from it (like private schools, universities and the private tuition sector), and absorbed by gullible parents, desperate for their child to succeed in life. Admittedly it's probably slightly truer in places like America, but still...

 

[Yasuke]

A successful person is not generally what it's portrayed to me. I consider someone who brutally murders an invading soldier with an IED much more of a success than the average 9-5 corporate drones

no tears for dead resource thieves

I really hate when people only measure success by what career you have and how much money you make. Do you enjoy life? Are you content? Did you do something meaningful or important to you? This are the stuff that actually matters in life not being a drone. Everything in your life in my opinion should revolve around preventing suffering and theres nothing more insufferable to me than working. I literally lose my will to live with every 8 hours of week and just come home cant enjoying shit.

I never got used to it and I dont care for the breads and circuses 99% of the world accept because I really actually wanna die because of work. Theres literally been times I was willing to be homeless over work because I hated work so much and yeah being homeless I'm sure it many ways it's a hell of a lot worse but god damn it I refuse to just accept it. Suicide is the only correct path for me.

Honestly i think the people with the best lives are those who don't work all that hard and at least enjoy youth and die a hero or somethin in twenties or thirties

To be what is considered "successful", to have an aspiring career still means being a slave to the system that much more, for that much longer. And because we all die eventually anyway you're still on the conveyer belt to hell all the while.

Or have a job that doesnt make them wanna kill themselves and lucky enough to have a job they "love"

 

[Pluto]

Sorry, but I don't agree with that sick Anglo logic either... What a human being needs is health, love & acceptance from their family & friends, enough food & a decent place to stay

If you're physically healthy, suicidality is a symptom of a mental problem. Please don't tell me you wanna ctb for purely philosophical reasons cause that ain't a real thing

I agree that love and acceptance can be very important once basic survival is secured, but your last paragraph seems to deny that rational suicide can exist. I have read that even animals in desperate situations of extreme pain have been observed to 'CTB'.

 

[deflationary]

If you're physically healthy, suicidality is a symptom of a mental problem. Please don't tell me you wanna ctb for purely philosophical reasons cause that ain't a real thing

That's pretty arrogant. You can't pry apart philosophical reasons and mental health. If you're so inclined then you can look at everything through the lens of mental health and say that anyone that doesn't enjoy their life is mentally ill, because the one determiner of mental health is whether you enjoy life or not. Why can someone reject some specific bad conditions of life but not life as a whole? Who are you to decide that life in itself (without some specific bad circumstances) is a good thing? There's plenty of bad shit that's unavoidably part of life.

 

[DarkNearDeath]

No matter how perfect your past were.. it only take one to change all of that

 

[TheAmazingCriswell]

That's pretty arrogant. You can't pry apart philosophical reasons and mental health. If you're so inclined then you can look at everything through the lens of mental health and say that anyone that doesn't enjoy their life is mentally ill, because the one determiner of mental health is whether you enjoy life or not. Why can someone reject some specific bad conditions of life but not life as a whole? Who are you to decide that life in itself (without some specific bad circumstances) is a good thing? There's plenty of bad shit that's unavoidably part of life.

I don't think the subterranean accommodation meant to appear arrogant with that message; after reading a few of his posts, I have come to the conclusion that this is simply his writing style. Besides, this certainly is a topic worthy of discussion and I agree with the points you raised.
After all, philosophers are essentially thinking about the way people think: how they perceive the world, how they perceive themselves, human logic and its boundaries etc. Hence, it is only naturally to build a bridge between philosophy and the condition of the mind.
As for mental illnesses: How is one to recognise the illness of the own mind? Identifying physical wounds or defects is easy, but mental shortcomings are difficult to detect.

No matter how perfect your past were.. it only take one to change all of that

I agree completely. Life is entirely randomised. It doesn't matter if you're rich, in good health, have a strong social circle etc.etc., as everything can be taken from you one moment to the next without a failure on your part. You may live a happy life, but there is no guarantee for anything.
Riches? You might be robbed or lose everything in an economic crash.
Health? You might be involved in a traffic accident due to someone else's recklessness.
Social standing? You might be wrongly accused of a crime.
And the list goes on...

Some people might say that I focus too much on the negative things, which is strange. I am not focusing on them, I merely acknowledge their existence, yet to the average person this seems like concentrating on the negative, since they have trained themselves to only look on the bright side of things.

 

[newave3]

The only reason to exist is to minimize our suffering. This means having enough food to eat and having a roof over our heads.
It also means staying healthy but that is not possible for many of us. Wealth, possessions, relationships and careers mean absolutely nothing since we will all die and none of those things will matter.

 

[FuneralCry]

I don't think there is only 'one' correct path, people can find satisfaction in many different ways. I know what you mean though, I think how our life is at a young age can influence what it is like as we get older. I think some people are like me where we were doomed from the start. Not being neurotypical held me back in many ways and I ended up with physical health problems at a young age. What went wrong for me was out of my control and I think how our life goes is down to luck/chance. At the end of the day all paths lead to death though.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

While I agree with you on a lot of things, at the end of the day life is a gamble. Much like a random number generator, there are thousands of possibilities and outcomes, most of them just aren't very merciful.

You have an interesting point about being groomed for success. By far, the majority of the people I've came across who are able to function in this world either had loving families, academic talent, or both.

Academic ability means nothing if there is no one there to help nurture those skills, for example, a guiding hand to encourage the child to apply themselves. Likewise, a loving family can only carry a person so far if they are unable to excel in a professional environment. So there has has to be a touch of both for someone to have a fighting chance when the starting gun is pulled.

Now that's not to say there aren't exceptions. We always hear of the self made businessman who quit his job as a cleaner to invent a novel product, then found himself swimming in cash. Yet, this is the exception, not the rule. Media tends to play on the ethos of survivorship bias. Why do you think motivational stories and heroic epics like the Odyssey are so tantalising to readers? Because we love the idea of overcoming obstacles and finding fulfillment in the journey.

So, the world loves to show us the success stories. What they don't show us is the millions of people who failed and died trying to achieve something that wasn't feasible in their circumstances. If you get struck with incurable illnesses and disabilities, you'll often be told that someone out there has it worse, and that you should use their suffering as fuel to keep going, because you can't be that bad off if you're still breathing, right?

Instead of promoting reasonable goals, society likes to hold us to unachievable standards. We can't really pursue the things we have a penchant for if those aspirations are not profitable. There is a focus on productivity rather than happiness and fulfillment. Even if you are disabled like me and physically can't do 90% of jobs people will attempt to force you to function beyond your means.

I despise the idea that everyone has an equal shot in life if they simply buckle down and pull at their bootstraps. If you came from an abusive family and had to worry about where your next meal was coming from rather than tomorrow's English test, your development is going to be extremely different compared to someone who spent their youth in a carefree and innocent manner, whose parents, teachers and peers facilitated their growth and primed them for success.

 

[motel rooms]

You can't pry apart philosophical reasons and mental health. If you're so inclined then you can look at everything through the lens of mental health and say that anyone that doesn't enjoy their life is mentally ill, because the one determiner of mental health is whether you enjoy life or not. Why can someone reject some specific bad conditions of life but not life as a whole? Who are you to decide that life in itself (without some specific bad circumstances) is a good thing? There's plenty of bad shit that's unavoidably part of life.

Yeah, yeah, I get it - you're a sophisticated thinker & I'm a crude, arrogant asshole. I still think that ctb for purely philosophical reasons is practically non-existent. If you're not some monumentally rational one-in-a-billion philosopher or a fictional character from a French art film, if you're a real person, you have to be in some sort of physical or psychological pain in order to want to kill yourself. I didn't make the claim that life in itself is a good thing LOL, I just said that people don't ctb for purely philosophical reasons

 

[it's_all_a_game]

I despise the idea that everyone has an equal shot in life if they simply buckle down and pull at their bootstraps. If you came from an abusive family and had to worry about where your next meal was coming from rather than tomorrow's English test, your development is going to be extremely different compared to someone who spent their youth in a carefree and innocent manner, whose parents, teachers and peers facilitated their growth and primed them for success.

Very true. I have talent at writing, however, it was hard for me to develop it when I was younger because I had to worry about money, bullying, etc. Now that I'm older, I just want to ctb because I'm disillusioned with society and the world in general.

 

[motel rooms]

your last paragraph seems to deny that rational suicide can exist. I have read that even animals in desperate situations of extreme pain have been observed to 'CTB'.

I'm not saying that rational suicide doesn't exist. It's perfectly rational to kill yourself if you're in extreme pain. It's also perfectly rational to kill yourself even if you're not in any pain, but you think that this world is a horrible place. I'm simply saying that practically nobody kills themselves unless they're in some kind of pain

 

[motel rooms]

Well, I have loving and responsible parents, come from an upper-middle-class background in a rich western country, did well in school and even have a degree in a STEM field, and on top of that I am neither physically nor mentally ill (although I might be slightly on the spectrum)

Why are you considering ctb if you're not experiencing significant mental suffering?

 

[deflationary]

Yeah, yeah, I get it - you're a sophisticated thinker & I'm a crude, arrogant asshole. I still think that ctb for purely philosophical reasons is practically non-existent. If you're not some monumentally rational one-in-a-billion philosopher or a fictional character from a French art film, if you're a real person, you have to be in some sort of physical or psychological pain in order to want to kill yourself. I didn't make the claim that life in itself is a good thing LOL, I just said that people don't ctb for purely philosophical reasons

I don't think you're a crude, arrogant asshole. For the most part :) I usually really like your posts. This one rubbed me the wrong way though. I might have read too much into the phrase "mental problem". It seems very dismissive and like it implies that the problem is with the person's head instead of whatever outside reason is causing them to feel suicidal.

Obviously there's always some outside reason. It's never some *detached* philosophical reflection that drives people to suicide. But philosophical positions are informed by real world problems and don't have to be detached. So in that sense it makes perfect sense to kill yourself over a philosophical position.

 

[motel rooms]

I might have read too much into the phrase "mental problem". It seems very dismissive and like it implies that the problem is with the person's head instead of whatever outside reason is causing them to feel suicidal.

Obviously there's always some outside reason. It's never some *detached* philosophical reflection that drives people to suicide. But philosophical positions are informed by real world problems and don't have to be detached. So in that sense it makes perfect sense to kill yourself over a philosophical position.

Yeah, I should've used "psychological suffering" instead of "mental problem", even though many mental problems (exogenous depression, PTSD) are caused by outside reasons/stressors & not all of them render the person completely unable to make rational decisios.

As for killing oneself over a philosophical position, that just sounds like such an elitist act to a pinko like me - "Look at me, I'm gonna jump off my ivory tower because I'm a heroically rational philosopher & my humongous brain is above ordinary human concerns!" No, buddy, you just can't stand ordinary unbearable pain like the rest of us...

 

[Wayfaerer]

I disagree but not entirely. I would've done so much better with my life had I just avoided one pitfall at 18 despite my parents having been negligent fools during my childhood. That single pitfall had destroyed me.

 

[deflationary]

As for killing oneself over a philosophical position, that just sounds like such an elitist act to a pinko like me - "Look at me, I'm gonna jump off my ivory tower because I'm a heroically rational philosopher & my humongous brain is above ordinary human concerns!" No, buddy, you just can't stand ordinary unbearable pain like the rest of us...

Yeah but that's a strawman you yourself came up with. No one actually says that. You made the sharp division between either wanting to kill oneself over mental problems or philosophical reasons. So I figured something like "I dislike work/society/people/the universe and life in general just offers more bad than good" would be a philosophical position under your definition. And that seems like a perfectly plausible and reasonable reason for someone to kill themselves over.

 

[fishtacos4me]

getting to a dentist appointment on time - this is a major challenge for me and I did it!
getting one project out of my inbox - working on it
feed my fish and clean the glass - this is actually something I look forward to
do a load of laundry -

I may or may not get all this done. If I do get it done today - I will count it as success. If I finish it tomorrow - I will still count it as success.

Yep, took me two days. Oh well, still got it done - so Success!

 

[motel rooms]

Yeah but that's a strawman you yourself came up with. No one actually says that. You made the sharp division between either wanting to kill oneself over mental problems or philosophical reasons. So I figured something like "I dislike work/society/people/the universe and life in general just offers more bad than good" would be a philosophical position under your definition. And that seems like a perfectly plausible and reasonable reason for someone to kill themselves over.

You're right, but I still get a couple of points for making fun of philosophers who suffer so mightily because their superhuman brains are too big for their human skulls

 

[TheAmazingCriswell]

Why are you considering ctb if you're not experiencing significant mental suffering?

Ah, I never said that I don't experience mental suffering, I am simply of the opinion that it is not caused by a mental illness (it might of course be entirely possible that I suffer from some undiagnosed condition).
My problem is that I am unable to cope with the complexities of life; I am unable to function as an independent adult, I have no useful skills or interests and I am frightened of taking responsibility. To be perfectly blunt: I am too meek and weak for this world, simply by defect of my character. Some people might say that all these problems can be overcome with hard work and disciplined effort, but I simply don't think that effort is worth it, especially since success is not guaranteed and in any case timely limited.
You could work every waking hour and get out of your comfort zone only to be successful in your late 50's and then die the next day because you fell down a flight of stairs. How pointless.
Besides, I am not in the phase of preparing the act itself (yet); I am luckily still in the ideation phase, where I only think about suicide on an almost daily basis. Naturally, the point could be made that thinking this much about suicide is a symptom of a mental illness, but I am not a psychologist.

I'm not saying that rational suicide doesn't exist. It's perfectly rational to kill yourself if you're in extreme pain. It's also perfectly rational to kill yourself even if you're not in any pain, but you think that this world is a horrible place. I'm simply saying that practically nobody kills themselves unless they're in some kind of pain

Your last sentence is one of the reasons why I'm still around. I may be at odds with the world, but it's still bearable. Nevertheless, it is immensely comforting to know that I'll always have the option of catching the metaphorical bus.

P.S.: Just in case your jibes against "philosophers who suffer so mightily because their superhuman brains are too big for their human skulls" were addressed at my initial contribution, I'll have you know that it has never been my attention to give this appearance, although my flowery, convoluted writing style is hardly of help regarding these matters.

 

[motel rooms]

Ah, I never said that I don't experience mental suffering, I am simply of the opinion that it is not caused by a mental illness (it might of course be entirely possible that I suffer from some undiagnosed condition).

You're so depressed, man. Depression is a mental illness. It may not be as "exotic" & "flashy" as schizophrenia, but it's still a mental illness & it devastates people. Here are some symptoms of depression that you definitely have:
- feeling hopeless & helpless, having low self-esteem & feeling guilt-ridden ("I am unable to cope with the complexities of life, I am unable to function as an independent adult, I have no useful skills, I am too meek and weak for this world, simply by defect of my character")
- finding it difficult to make decisions ("I am frightened of taking responsibility")
- lacking motivation ("I simply don't think that effort is worth it, especially since success is not guaranteed")
- having suicidal thoughts ("I am luckily still in the ideation phase, where I only think about suicide on an almost daily basis)
I bet those are not the only symptoms you have, you might want to take a look at this list - https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/clinical-depression/symptoms/

No, you're not one of the philosophers I was making fun of. You don't use their obnoxious, condescending jargon