Venting Therapy is a delusional scam

[Dot]

how do you be honest? You can't. "I want to suicide, here is my plan." Boom. You are in the hospital.
If you have to talk around that, that's not honesty.

Tbf therpsts r mand8td rports jst lke teachrs r - thy r leglly oblig8td 2 rport suicdl ppl if thre = gnuine thret 2 lfe considrd -- othrwse thy wld lse thr licnse -- s/ whle rportng suicdl ppl mght b cnsidrd a bad thng th/ therpst ds nt hve a chce in th/ mattr

You don't need science to sit there to listen to someone's problems. You just need two ears. Really not that complex. The other part of their job is to say "stay positive. Relax and focus on the present, not the future". Don't need to spend 3+ years on a degree for someone to say that either.

Then you aren't being truthful. If you have to dodge around and say "Oh, I feel suicidal, but I don't have plans" when you really do and really want to suicide the next day, then there is no point of talking to a therapist anyways.

Therpsts r traind in mre thn jst listnng -- thre r also mny dffrnt knds of therpeutc apprches

Therpsts cn b traind in hw dffrnt emotns mght manifst or devlpmentl psychlgy t/ undrstnd whre dffrnt m.h issus origin8 & how -- attchmnt thery = lrge prt of thy

Thy wll undrstnd dffrnt defnse mechnisms & also hw a patnt mght projct thr emotns on2 a therpst & wht tht means-- terms lke 'transfernce & countr-transfrnce' & hw 2 mange thr own emotns whle thy r holdng a sfe spce fr th/ patnt 2 xplore emotns tht thy hve bn hidng frm thmslves & othrs fr yrs

Thn obvsly thre r th/ copng mechnsms & hw 2 recgnse & mange ovr-whlm whch in itslf oftn tkes knwldge of hw cogntve procssing wrks & factrs lke strss & deprssn tht cn impct tht - thy r traind in mny dffrnt thngs

Tht b-ing sd thre r mny terrble therpsts out thre - thre = nt enuf regulatn & mny therpsts r jst brokn ppl thmslves wh/ wnt 2 fx othr brokn ppl bcse = kps thm frm havng t/ fce thr own issus -- thre r also sme brillnt therpsts out thre bt = jst nt as easy 2 knw hw 2 fnd thm

Slf thnk tht therpy cn b v usefl bt am persnlly frstr8td tht thre = nt enuf mainstrm recognitn of nervs systm regulatn yt bt tht = massve prt of trma issus bt 2 mny ppl r fcused on thghts feelngs & b-havrs whch = vry shallw wrk fr mny ppl

 

[SexyIncél]

[translated] To be fair, therapists are mandated reporters just like teachers are — they are legally obligated to report suicidal people if there's genuine threat to life considered — otherwise they would lose their license — so while reporting people might be considered a bad thing, the therapist does not have a choice in the matter

I'd say they have a choice not to be obedient little spies, but it carries some risk, because the local Jerks That Be threaten them

So you have to:

• lower their risk. examples I've used:
  • use therapists anonymously, who value confidentiality
  • say you'll ctb in another country
  • build trust that they won't get punished if you ctb
  • maybe casually threaten to execute suicide pact upon betrayal
• increase their reward. examples:
  • pleasure of doing a better job, if you can simply talk about what ails you
  • knowing you help others more, if they do a better job
  • subversive fun

It helps to ask "what is law?" It's just some loose rules how a state (the organized thing with cops & obnoxious decisionmakers in monkeysuits) will operate. It can't necessarily perceive your actions, nor have capacity to react. You don't have to follow those rules, if you execute actions effectively enough

 

[Dot]

I'd say they have a choice not to be obedient little spies, but it carries some risk, because the local Jerks That Be threaten them

So you have to:

• lower their risk. examples I've used:
  • use therapists anonymously, who value confidentiality
  • say you'll ctb in another country
  • build trust that they won't get punished if you ctb
  • maybe casually threaten to execute suicide pact upon betrayal

Threts lke tht wll jst mke a therpst stp workng wth u

• increase their reward. examples:
  • pleasure of doing a better job, if you can simply talk about what ails you
  • knowing you help others more, if they do a better job
  • subversive fun

It helps to ask "what is law?" It's just some loose rules how a state (the organized thing with cops & obnoxious decisionmakers in monkeysuits) will operate. It can't necessarily perceive your actions, nor have capacity to react. You don't have to follow those rules, if you execute actions effectively enough

Askng therpsts 2 hde thngs & lie wll alwys cme bck 2 thm tho

If sme1 ctbs & coronr rport etc shws tht thre ws knwldge abt plannd attmpts thn tht therpst cld b strck off & nt b abl 2 practse smethng tht thy traind fr yrs 2 d/

Thre wll defntly b pro-chce therpsts out thre wh/ wll b as flexble as thy cn in ordr t/ fnd wys t/ tlk abt th/ suicdalty bt thy r limtd b/ thse frme-wrks

Sayng 'am suicdl' tho shld nt b smethng 2 b committd fr bcse b-ing suicdl = mre commn thn mny ppl thnk

 

[SexyIncél]

[translated] Threats like that will just make a therapist stop working with you

That therapist is still working with me. In the link, I explain further what I did:

"Therapists can get in trouble for this. So my therapist needs to know I'm too careful for that. And I treat them well. Furthermore, so they have something to tell a judge, I offhandedly threaten I'd execute a suicide pact immediately if they betray me. No need to act dramatic, they know what I'm doing, we're just being safe"

[translated] Asking therapists to hide things & lie will always come back to them though

I lie & hide things all the time, because it's moral. So do people who work with me, including therapists. The state isn't a moral institution & will ruin your therapy's effectiveness. And maybe *poof* there goes your ONE life

Successful therapy isn't easy — note how many people participate in long threads on how therapy is a scam. If people are gonna shell out thousands for therapy, they should figure out how to make it effective — and figure out how to do it

Obviously, this'd get my ass in trouble if I didn't study/practice effective action. Including risk management. And imagining weird possibilities. And building tolerably accurate models predicting how people may act. Because virtually nothing in this universe is easy. It only seems easy because people don't realize how many mistakes they make, that result in significant costs

And of course, people break far bigger rules all the time. And benefit wildly

 

[Arihman]

Another issue, aside from the fact that life is a biological experiment the circumstances of which you cannot control, is that, even when ignoring all that, you need to really want to get better. And you can't want what you want, which is why I don't view therapy as good primary solution for suicidal. At best, it can be a secondary or complementary tool to real, practical solutions that might possibly make the ctb desire itself go away.

But the idea that therapy alone can make it go away, or at least be the primary reason why the desire is no longer there, or why one is now satisfied with life, is absurd.

Even more so if that desire is (as is my case) also motivated by the realization that living beings can always end up in circumstances making them wish to be dead, but the dead can't wish to be alive to experience the (real or alleged) goods of existence, no matter how likely or unlikely it might be that such goods would be achieved by that person had he or she not died.

I don't think there is any reasonable counterargument for that, not without believing in some afterlife, and specifically a worse one where I will be punished for my suicidal action, a notion for which there is no evidence.

 

[OhWellDerp321]

youre extremely obtuse and not good at contextualizing anything is all i can gather

If can't come up with an intelligent response but have to resort to saying someone can't contextualize what you are saying, then you are the obtuse person.

Dog, therapists are literally trained to remain impartial. They don't give people false hope.

Also what's with the hypothetical millionaire situation? I have never had a therapist say "well maybe one day you can have all your hopes and dreams and blah blah blah!"

If you don't believe your therapist is grounded in reality, then find someone else.

Another thing: You don't see it because to be frank, your head is so far up your ass, but you're just as delusional as unrealistically hopeful people by being unrealistically pessimistic. This belief that therapists are manipulative and out for your money is nuts. Not sure what you're so angry about, maybe you need a blunt, idk.

Just because you haven't heard it, does not mean others haven't heard it. Because that's definitely something therapists promote all the time. "Hopefulness".

It's not a matter of just "find" someone else. That's what the system is like. You can keep going to different therapists but they will keep providing you with the same type of "think your way out of your problems" solutions. Which does not solve your problems.

No one is angry here. If anyone is angry it is you ranting about pessimism and making comments like "get your head out of your ass". Not everyone has to be optimistic. Just like how not everyone has to agree with your idea that therapists are helpful. Not everyone is "nuts" just because they don't agree with your viewpoint. Welcome to reality my friend, where not everyone is going to agree with you :)

Here in Brazil we do not have a psychiatric containment system for patients with depressive symptoms. You can be hospitalized, but no one will come to hospitalize you for saying they want to kill themselves. I decided to be honest with my therapist, I said that I had three methods to leave this party. Since then, our sessions have been much more sincere, both on her part and on mine. I said I had given up. She did try to convince me to stay alive, but therapy itself consists of good arguments and a discussion where apparently both of us learn. I have criticisms to psychology regarding the aspect of individual interpretation. As you very well put it in your text, we are mostly workers and yes, we are exploited. There is a social problem that leads to suicide, it is not something purely individual. And working on this in therapy even helped me form better arguments in favor of the notion of pro-choice. I know I'm taking a serious risk by opening the game this way. I can be hospitalized at any time. But I realized that they can't do anything against us. When reason decides to end itself, it doesn't matter who forces you to stay alive. You will get what you want, one time or another. And I make it clear about the powerlessness that pro-lifers have. They are powerless before us.

See, that I don't see a problem with. If you were actually left alone for saying you want to commit suicide and tell him methods without consequences, then there is some real honesty between you on the therapist.

I am not sure if I fully understand the situation though? You are saying that not one will hospitalize you for saying that you want to suicide. But you also mentioned that you can be hospitalized at any time?

Here in Brazil we do not have a psychiatric containment system for patients with depressive symptoms. You can be hospitalized, but no one will come to hospitalize you for saying they want to kill themselves. I decided to be honest with my therapist, I said that I had three methods to leave this party. Since then, our sessions have been much more sincere, both on her part and on mine. I said I had given up. She did try to convince me to stay alive, but therapy itself consists of good arguments and a discussion where apparently both of us learn. I have criticisms to psychology regarding the aspect of individual interpretation. As you very well put it in your text, we are mostly workers and yes, we are exploited. There is a social problem that leads to suicide, it is not something purely individual. And working on this in therapy even helped me form better arguments in favor of the notion of pro-choice. I know I'm taking a serious risk by opening the game this way. I can be hospitalized at any time. But I realized that they can't do anything against us. When reason decides to end itself, it doesn't matter who forces you to stay alive. You will get what you want, one time or another. And I make it clear about the powerlessness that pro-lifers have. They are powerless before us.

See, that I don't see a problem with. If you were actually left alone for saying you want to commit suicide and tell him methods without consequences, then there is some real honesty between you on the therapist.

I am not sure if I fully understand the situation though? You are saying that not one will hospitalize you for saying that you want to suicide. But you also mentioned that you can be hospitalized at any time?