The "What if death is worse?" Argument

[Dying Knight]

The reason why the wager focuses on the first possibility is because it's the one with the worst consequence, and thus the one you'd want to avoid the most, even if the third option is just as likely.

That's not a correct way of thinking either. The god may hate believers (considering them being stupid) and make them suffer more than non-believers.

 

[MatthieuFrederickW]

To me it logically makes sense that there's existence after physical death since we started to exist from nothing, unless we already existed in some form before existing here.

 

[Cloud Busting]

That's not a correct way of thinking either. The god may hate believers (considering them being stupid) and make them suffer more than non-believers.

Good point.

I think it just seems more probable that a God would punish non-believers. Why would a God hate believers? Maybe God doesn't want to be worshiped and just wants to chill in peace.

There is something about hell that is just so terrifying and I can't explain it. You'd be correct that this is irrational (and hence why I no longer believe).

It's all a fear tactic with no compelling evidence to support the idea whatsoever. That we cease consciousness has more evidence anyway.

(Also sorry I misread your post so I'm editing it cuz my original response was based on a misunderstanding).

 

[d3j3ct3dl0s3r05]

I mean at the end of the day we're all gonna die and be subjected to this so-called "mystery box" of death regardless of whether from CTB, natural causes or other random uncontrollable things

 

[Foreverix]

I mean at the end of the day we're all gonna die and be subjected to this so-called "mystery box" of death regardless of whether from CTB, natural causes or other random uncontrollable things

Very true. I'm actually growing more and more curious to get a bite of the mystery meat

 

[suicidal flapper]

We're going to die in a short amount of time anyway so all this would be doing is delaying the inevitable

 

[Foreverix]

We're going to die in a short amount of time anyway so all this would be doing is delaying the inevitable

 

[Dying Knight]

To me it logically makes sense that there's existence after physical death since we started to exist from nothing, unless we already existed in some form before existing here.

The notion of afterlife makes no sense unless we assume that there is some valuable connection between the person in their normal life and the same person in their afterlife. I think that your knowledge and your memories about the past are the only valuable things that constitute your personality. If you lose your memories, your personality ceases to exist.

The known cases of full amnesia due to brain damage serve as an evidence that your personality may cease to exist even while your physical body still remains alive. Once your neurons that preserve your memories are destroyed in any way, your personality gets lost, and so happens when your physical body dies.

The afterlife would only make sense if your memories you have collected during your life could somehow be transitioned into another form of consciousness, which is very unlikely to happen.

I think it just seems more probable that a God would punish non-believers.

Such an estimation of god's motivation and preferences is rather questionable, since it's based on an implicit assumption that the god is similar to us, that I consider very doubtful.

If I were a loving god creating my own world, I wouldn't make my creatures suffering in the first place. If I put creatures into conditions they suffer a lot, then I'm rather a sadistic god than a loving one. And if am a sadistic god, my thinking about how things should work may radically differ from your thoughts and expectations about how things should work.

There is something about hell that is just so terrifying and I can't explain it. You'd be correct that this is irrational (and hence why I no longer believe).

My point is that even if we consider fear as a valuable argument, there is literally nothing rational in the Pascal's wager and in the fear of possibly bad afterlife.

In case if the afterlife exists and it's awful, there is no difference if we die sooner or later. If the afterlife is infinite, then any finite amount of years spent in the normal life doesn't delay our sufferings significantly, because our sufferings will be infinite in any case, no matter when we die.

infinity ± finite amount = infinity

If the afterlife is finite, then again, there is no reason to think that we are going to suffer more or less because of ending the normal life sooner. The odds that we increase our sufferings are the same as the odds we decrease them, since we know literally nothing about the outcome.

 

[FuneralCry]

But it's like that person forgets that we are all just going to die anyway, death is the most normal thing, it's inescapable, I find it cruel deliberately trying to scare suicidal people, pro-lifers like that are so insensitive and lack any compassion.

But anyway I very strongly believe death to be nothingness and I don't care what other people believe, I could never wish to endure this cruel and meaningless existence where there is the risk of experiencing way more unbearable suffering at any moment, only death comforts me and I see beauty in ceasing to exist.

 

[MatthieuFrederickW]

The notion of afterlife makes no sense unless we assume that there is some valuable connection between the person in their normal life and the same person in their afterlife. I think that your knowledge and your memories about the past are the only valuable things that constitute your personality. If you lose your memories, your personality ceases to exist.

The known cases of full amnesia due to brain damage serve as an evidence that your personality may cease to exist even while your physical body still remains alive. Once your neurons that preserve your memories are destroyed in any way, your personality gets lost, and so happens when your physical body dies.

The afterlife would only make sense if your memories you have collected during your life could somehow be transitioned into another form of consciousness, which is very unlikely to happen.

Such an estimation of god's motivation and preferences is rather questionable, since it's based on an implicit assumption that the god is similar to us, that I consider very doubtful.

If I were a loving god creating my own world, I wouldn't make my creatures suffering in the first place. If I put creatures into conditions they suffer a lot, then I'm rather a sadistic god than a loving one. And if am a sadistic god, my thinking about how things should work may radically differ from your thoughts and expectations about how things should work.

My point is that even if we consider fear as a valuable argument, there is literally nothing rational in the Pascal's wager and in the fear of possibly bad afterlife.

In case if the afterlife exists and it's awful, there is no difference if we die sooner or later. If the afterlife is infinite, then any finite amount of years spent in the normal life doesn't delay our sufferings significantly, because our sufferings will be infinite in any case, no matter when we die.

infinity ± finite amount = infinity

If the afterlife is finite, then again, there is no reason to think that we are going to suffer more or less because of ending the normal life sooner. The odds that we increase our sufferings are the same as the odds we decrease them, since we know literally nothing about the outcome.

I don't really believe in an afterlife in that sense, but I do believe in rebirth as something or someone, maybe a different version of yourself.

 

[Dying Knight]

I don't really believe in an afterlife in that sense, but I do believe in rebirth as something or someone, maybe a different version of yourself.

The question is: by what criteria is that future version of yourself associated with the current version of yourself? After all, with no doubts, some of your molecules will be sooner or later reused by other organisms, but is it really important? In case if there is some connection between your newer and older versions, but your newer version doesn't know anything about the older one, what is the value of the given connection (whatever it is)?