The Vatican and Euthanasia

[Wisdom3_1-9]

Like this is a surprise to any of us. A clear example of how blind belief can prevent you from being compassionate. I believe in my heart that Jesus himself would be by the side of someone who wanted to end their suffering.

Vatican calls euthanasia an 'act of homicide'

 

[OnlyTheWind]

Vatican is a mafia. Organized religion at it's finest. I too believe that Jesus would be pro-choice. After all, he did say, "My kingdom is not of this world".

 

[flank]

religion is the cancer of humanity

 

[esse_est_percipi]

this is not at all surprising. What else are we to expect of an institution which sided with the nazis?
Just another example of how religion can kill off any compassion and empathy which might otherwise be extended to those suffering.
According to the church, a world where everyone is suffering all the time is better than a world in which no life exists. Because life, innit. Exquisite.
Would the popes and theologians and bishops still hold to that view if they were the ones suffering?
Bunch of hypocrites. These are the types of people Jesus warned against.

The church does this kind of thing for many issues, it always has. Thanks to the writings of ignorant, sadomasochistic church fathers/theologians motivated by their will to power and schadenfreude. The church is a parody of itself.
The tragedy is that anyone takes it seriously anymore.

 

[Donk]

What does the Vatican call Pedophilia: "an act of compassion"?

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Vatican is a mafia. Organized religion at it's finest. I too believe that Jesus would be pro-choice. After all, he did say, "My kingdom is not of this world".

I think so too. After all, jesus chose to be killed himself. He could have easily argued his way out of being crucified when in front of the sanhedrin, but he voluntarily chose to go to the cross. Jesus' death was a form of suicide.

Therefore, according to christianity, everyone else should also be allowed to choose when and how they die, following jesus' example. This is the logical corollary, not the malignant theological perversions which came later through the church, saying that suicide is a sin and that suffering is something good and should never be alleviated (Jesus spent his time actually curing people and alleviating suffering, according to the gospels, therefore suffering can't be a good thing, right churchmen?).

 

[OnlyTheWind]

@worried_to_death

Yes. Self-deliverance is a fundamental human right. But people seem more concerned with making others think like themselves. I absolutely agree that Jesus' death was a form of suicide, as seen in John 10:18 - "No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself." In my experience many religious barely know their own history and tend to go with what their denomination of choice teaches, because it's easier not to question/ do your own searching. Even when I called myself a Christian, suicide felt like a totally natural choice with no guilt attached.

 

[Meditation guide]

I went to a party at a priest's mansion. The priest was out of town and his live in boyfriend had a huge gay party. It was the epitome of debauchery. Let me tell you about the Vatican. They are an organization of gay men, from what I've seen. And they like their lovers to be young for the most part. In other words it's ok to ignore the Vatican. I was the only girl there, I had been out dancing with a gay man I knew and we ended up there. I got a first hand look at what goes on at a priest's home.

 

[LittleJem]

I went to a party at a priest's mansion. The priest was out of town and his live in boyfriend had a huge gay party. It was the epitome of debauchery. Let me tell you about the Vatican. They are an organization of gay men, from what I've seen. And they like their lovers to be young for the most part. In other words it's ok to ignore the Vatican. I was the only girl there, I had been out dancing with a gay man I knew and we ended up there. I got a first hand look at what goes on at a priest's home.

Yes, I read a story about a big cocaine gay sex party with a person high up at the Vatican who ran it. He had been driving cocaine round in Vatican cars, as they have diplomatic immunity. I love this story, as it just exposes the huge hypocrisy. Also, as it doesn't relate to children, I don't have any moral objection to it.

I object to where they preach what they do not practise, and how the Vatican is basically responsible for so many people in South America and elsewhere contracting HIV. They have some evil policies.

The most unbelievable line in the article is this one: "There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia," Pope Benedict wrote in 2004 when he was still a cardinal.

Cool. Let's bomb the f**k out of other countries because that is okay, but take away peoples' personal choice about their own deaths or about whether or not they are ready to bring new life into this world.

 

[Wisdom3_1-9]

The most unbelievable line in the article is this one: "There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia," Pope Benedict wrote in 2004 when he was still a cardinal.

Cool. Let's bomb the f**k out of other countries because that is okay, but take away peoples' personal choice about their own deaths or about whether or not they are ready to bring new life into this world.

I'm well aware of the hypocrisy of the Vatican on a whole host of issues, but just to be clear — the official church teaching on war is that any action that causes the loss of human life causes a war to be unjust. Benedict's point (sidebar: I disagree with Benedict on so many things) was that some Catholic ms themselves argue in favor of war or the death penalty, which the Church preaches against, and they may have valid reasons for their argument. His statement that there is no valid argument for abortion or euthanasia is short-sighted and indicative of a blind allegiance to a set of morals rooted in anachronistic theology.

I should also state that I am Catholic and have been all my life. I attended Catholic school right up to Grade 12. I worked for the Catholic Church all throughout university. I taught at a Catholic university. Yet, I'm a married homosexual posting on a suicide forum. Shows you the type of Catholic I am. I have more affinity for my faith than I have for the leaders of the Church. Official doctrine is so often at odds with what people actually need in their lives. For the Church to dedicate so much of its efforts to stop abortion, euthanasia, and LGBT rights is appalling and will be viewed negatively in the annals of history (should the Church even survive much longer). If the Church would just take Jesus's example - help the poor, the needy, the sick, the downtrodden, without discrimination or expectation. There are so many good Catholics doing great work around the world fueled by their faith. I feel sorry that their work is overshadowed by outspoken leaders who devote their efforts to issues that exclude, discriminate, and demean segments of society.

 

[Meditation guide]

I'm well aware of the hypocrisy of the Vatican on a whole host of issues,

You can't know how bad they are but then follow bits and pieces of what they preach. That organization takes advantage of good people. Wolves in sheep's clothing. Realize that it's all a big joke. The church is corrupt. The priests are corrupt.
It's a giant con game. They are not just a little bit dishonest. They are running an organization to make money off of people. They live in luxury. They have orgies. You know this. Why not find a church that isn't so rotten at the core?

 

[Wisdom3_1-9]

After what I saw that night I wouldn't take seriously anything about that organization. You can't know how bad they are but then follow bits and pieces of what they preach. That organization takes advantage of good people. Wolves in sheep's clothing.

I think the leaders in any big organization tend the be hypocrites. Look at the stats of US politics right now. For that reason I try not to confuse "The Vatican" with "The Church." The Church is the people of God. I think the Vatican is very out of step with the Church — more concerned about hanging on to their dwindling power and influence, desperate to exert control over people's lives.

To a man I hope.

Lol yes.

You can't know how bad they are but then follow bits and pieces of what they preach. That organization takes advantage of good people. Wolves in sheep's clothing. Realize that it's all a big joke. The church is corrupt. The priests are corrupt.
It's a giant con game. They are not just a little bit dishonest. They are running an organization to make money off of people. They live in luxury. They have orgies. You know this. Why not find a church that isn't so rotten at the core?

I understand your opinion, but I disagree. I've had this debate in my mind and in my heart many times. Why not throw my support behind a faith that fully accepts me?

I've decided it's not that simple. I'd vote for a political party in which I don't believe or support everything, but in which I believe they'd be the best party for the country. Likewise, I remain Catholic because I believe — at this moment, anyway — that the faith is best for me. I value much of the dogma, such as the preferential option for the poor. Catholic liturgy inspires me in a way that other denominations do not.

And finally, I cannot agree with general statements that say "the Church is corrupt" or "the priests are corrupt." I have personal relationships with more than 100 priests, so I know that statement to not be true. I don't deny the systemic issues nor the historical transgressions, but I know there are good people working hard. I think their work is sadly overshadowed by the negative sides.

Again, I don't fault anyone for having a negative view of the Catholic Church or Catholic teaching. I prefer to work for change from the inside, at least for as long as I can.

 

[raindrops]

You can't know how bad they are but then follow bits and pieces of what they preach. That organization takes advantage of good people. Wolves in sheep's clothing. Realize that it's all a big joke. The church is corrupt. The priests are corrupt.
It's a giant con game. They are not just a little bit dishonest. They are running an organization to make money off of people. They live in luxury. They have orgies. You know this. Why not find a church that isn't so rotten at the core?

Well said