"The rule of law" AKA Legal Barbarism

[Finding Sirius]

I thought about posting this and figured why not. I want your opinions on the so called "rule of law". So for reference, I was on the highway here in the good old USA. It was early on a sunday morning not many cars on the road. I had just purchased some bird feed and was on my way to the local riparian preserve to feed some birdies.

Only two things give me joy anymore driving and feeding animals/ being in nature. However, I am no longer able to fully enjoy these activities anymore. On the way to the preserve, I was pulled over by an "officer of the law". He asked me if I knew how fast I was going, I'm not going lie, I was flying. Obviously I feigned ignorance and said no.

He tells at the speed I was going I could be charged with a criminal offense. However, he said he would "cut me a break" and only give me a civil citation. I have 30 days to either go to traffic school or stand before a judge who will most certainly side with the officer. Obviously I going with traffic school, but what got me is that I could have been charged as a criminal for a non violent "offense". All because I didn't adhere to some arbitrary speed limit.

I am an Anarchist at my core, and before some of you jump down my throat, no I am not a part of nor do I agree with the likes of Antifa or any other so called "anti-fascist" groups. In my opinion these groups have nothing Anarchist about them, they are Marxist at their roots. To put it simply, I believe in freedom of association and that people should be free to do as they please, so long as they do not hurt or infringe on the rights of others.

Of course when I say this I know their will be those who argue that we need government to keep people "in line". I simply cannot accept that reasoning, in my opinion "the rule of law" is essentially an open air prison in which you have privileges, not rights. If some person in a badge or precieved "authority" can take your freedom or stuff it wasn't yours to begin with. For example: you have a house and have paid it off, you fall behind on your property taxes, men with guns show up at your home and reposses it. Or you leave an inheritance for your family, some agent from the government says you owed X amount of money and what was meant for your family is taken by the state. See? Not rights, privileges.

Other examples: Eminent Domain, Registration to drive the car that you paid for on roads you also paid for, Taxes on everything, Big corporations who grease the right palms of politicians for special treatment, etc. I could go on but I would really like to get your opinions.

 

[Celerity]

I am not an anarchist, but I do think many laws are silly and shouldn't be enforced. Cops can be bullies and worse. I think laws and taxes are the price you pay to benefit from living in society. Few modern men could make it completely on their own.

 

[Ashu]

Travel a bit. I have. Rule of law is better. A lot better. This from a Canadian living in India. For those who know, this says it all.

 

[Finding Sirius]

I am not an anarchist, but I do think many laws are silly and shouldn't be enforced. Cops can be bullies and worse. I think laws and taxes are the price you pay to benefit from living in society. Few modern men could make it completely on their own.

Anarchy does not mean people surviving on their own. On the contrary, it is a system (if you can truly call it that) in which all interactions are voluntary without interference from third parties (ie, the State/ Government). Also, Governments don't produce anything, they take from producers in the forms taxes , labor, goods and redistribute them. Living in a "society" should not come with the price of having to bow to men with guns. That is essentially what Government is the monopolization of force "do what I say or else".

 

[Little T]

You are VERY enlightened!
Your words are my struggle.

 

[Celerity]

Anarchy does not mean people surviving on their own. On the contrary, it is a system (if you can truly call it that) in which all interactions are voluntary without interference from third parties (ie, the State/ Government). Also, Governments don't produce anything, they take from producers in the forms taxes , labor, goods and redistribute them. Living in a "society" should not come with the price of having to bow to men with guns. That is essentially what Government is the monopolization of force "do what I say or else".

That sounds like a utopia. It might have been possible in less advanced societies that were much smaller by several orders of magnitude, but not ours. I don't trust my neighbors, and they don't trust me.

 

[Finding Sirius]

That sounds like a utopia. It might have been possible in less advanced societies that were much smaller by several orders of magnitude, but not ours. I don't trust my neighbors, and they don't trust me.

I see, so you don't trust your neighbors but you trust strangers to pass policy on your behalf and act in your best interest? I actually believe Government is the utopian idea. The idea that politicians elected by the people having power to dictate how the society run is a failed one. Throughout ancient and current history Governments have inevitably fallen and/ or turned totalitarian due to corruption of these elected officials. I mean look at how the Government is currently run. I assume you have a belief that humans are inherently selfish and narcissistic, I tend to agree. So why would you give those same selfish and narcissistic people power over you?

 

[Disappointered]

I feel like the rule of law is going to start falling apart in the near future. Things are going to go to civil war, guerilla warfare, low intensity violent power struggles. So things are looking up if the rule of law has started to bother you. Just be prepared. In my case it will have the fortuitous effect of getting me to down the final solution right after I shit my pants. I'll be glad to see this horrible world implode right before my lights go out.

 

[Celerity]

I see, so you don't trust your neighbors but you trust strangers to pass policy on your behalf and act in your best interest? I actually believe Government is the utopian idea. The idea that politicians elected by the people having power to dictate how the society run is a failed one. Throughout ancient and current history Governments have inevitably fallen and/ or turned totalitarian due to corruption of these elected officials. I mean look at how the Government is currently run. I assume you have a belief that humans are inherently selfish and narcissistic, I tend to agree. So why would you give those same selfish and narcissistic people power over you?

We live in a democracy in my country. It is flawed, but it is better than nothing. And yeah, I do want to have an independent arbiter who has a monopoly on violent force. The other way leads to vigilantism. Clearly, we do not have anything to agree upon.

As for societies falling, all inevitably do. It doesn't make government inferior to anarchism.

 

[Finding Sirius]

I feel like the rule of law is going to start falling apart in the near future. Things are going to go to civil war, guerilla warfare, low intensity violent power struggles. So things are looking up if the rule of law has started to bother you. Just be prepared. In my case it will have the fortuitous effect of getting me to down the final solution right after I shit my pants. I'll be glad to see this horrible world implode right before my lights go out.

I have been paying attention to current events and things are definitely getting bad. In terms of the US the average American is totally unprepared for the horrors that await them in the very near future. Internationally places like Siri Lanka, Middle East, and Europe have already devolved into chaos because of mismanagement by Government, some would even say it was intentional sabotage from within. Trust me I have seen this coming for a long time. While here at home (America) the recent events in Florida already have many people (including Democrats) poised to revolt. That Chinese curse "may you live in interesting times" is in full effect.

 

[Poor Stargazer]

In the US, the laws are written by the worst among us (politicians) and enforced by the bootlickers (cops and such). Most laws are not designed to "keep" us safe, rather to keep us opressed. Its a fked system for sure and i hope it does crumble.

 

[Finding Sirius]

You are VERY enlightened!
Your words are my struggle.

Aww, thank you. It is quite the struggle living in a system like this.

In the US, the laws are written by the worst among us (politicians) and enforced by the bootlickers (cops and such). Most laws are not designed to "keep" us safe, rather to keep us opressed. Its a fked system for sure and i hope it does crumble.

Indeed, I don't want these people ruling over me. As for their enforcers (cops), who watches the watchmen? There are far too many instances of them violating their own laws and abusing the citizenry and getting a slap on the wrist. Time off on the taxpayer dime, how nice that we pay for their misconduct. I to wish for this system to crumble.

We live in a democracy in my country. It is flawed, but it is better than nothing. And yeah, I do want to have an independent arbiter who has a monopoly on violent force. The other way leads to vigilantism. Clearly, we do not have anything to agree upon.

As for societies falling, all inevitably do. It doesn't make government inferior to anarchism.

Very well, thank you for the talk. It is much appreciated.

 

[Poor Stargazer]

Indeed, I don't want these people ruling over me. As for their enforcers (cops), who watches the watchmen? There are far too many instances of them violating their own laws and abusing the citizenry and getting a slap on the wrist. Time off on the taxpayer dime, how nice that we pay for their misconduct. I to wish for this system to crumble.

Qualified immunity. They investigate themselves and find they did nothing wrong 99% of the time. Cops and politicians are the actual domestic enemies of the constitution. Its not just the democrats or just the republicans its all of them as they are both owned by the same corporations. You cant vote your way out of tyranny and the cops are militarized now so the yokels with their guns incase the government infringes on their rights are about 20 years too late. People are trapped, its like we are already in the zombie apoclaypse. You have to be fkin crazy to be happy in this world

 

[Finding Sirius]

Qualified immunity. They investigate themselves and find they did nothing wrong 99% of the time. Cops and politicians are the actual domestic enemies of the constitution. Its not just the democrats or just the republicans its all of them as they are both owned by the same corporations. You cant vote your way out of tyranny and the cops are militarized now so the yokels with their guns incase the government infringes on their rights are about 20 years too late. People are trapped, its like we are already in the zombie apoclaypse. You have to be fkin crazy to be happy in this world

Yes! What gets me is these conservative types who LOVE the founding fathers. As you said both the Democrats and the Republicans are two wings of the same corrupt bird. However, conservatives worship the founders for revolting against England. What gets me though, is that the founders revolted due to a small tax on tea. Yet for all their talk and guns they have done nothing to stop tyranny. They insist on voting, even when they claim (and I agree) that the elections are rigged! If they were going to revolt they should have done it a long ago. Not only that but a majority of them worship cops! It cracks me up to see them whine about a system they enabled. If they had been around during revolutionary war times they would have sided with the British!

 

[Poor Stargazer]

expand...

Yes! What gets me is these conservative types who LOVE the founding fathers. As you said both the Democrats and the Republicans are two wings of the same corrupt bird. However, conservatives worship the founders for revolting against England. What gets me though, is that the founders revolted due to a small tax on tea. Yet for all their talk and guns they have done nothing to stop tyranny. They insist on voting, even when they claim (and I agree) that the elections are rigged! If they were going to revolt they should have done it a long ago. Not only that but a majority of them worship cops! It cracks me up to see them whine about a system they enabled. If they had been around during revolutionary war times they would have sided with the British!

100% we dont have a 2 party system, we have a system taken over by 2 parties that are really the same. Voting only manufactures consent to this bullshit. 1000% the elections are rigged, nobody worth a shit will ever be in a position to affect and real change. The dems got caught rigging the primary against Bernie in 2016 and fk all happened. Their lawyer even argued that it was their "right as a private organization to not follow their own charter.". I could bitch about this all night my friend. Its nice to see someone on the same page!

 

[Finding Sirius]

100% we dont have a 2 party system, we have a system taken over by 2 parties that are really the same. Voting only manufactures consent to this bullshit. I could bitch about this all night my friend. Its nice to see someone on the same page!

Indeed! It is so nice to speak with like minds. Out of curiosity, what philosophy do you subscribe to?

 

[Poor Stargazer]

Indeed! It is so nice to speak with like minds. Out of curiosity, what philosophy do you subscribe to?

I would say communism. People need to be in charge of their own labor and the means of production. At the very least democratic socalism as the Nordic countries are always among the happiest in the world. Yourself?

 

[Finding Sirius]

I subscribe to Anarchy and Free market ideals. I believe that people should be able to organize (or not) based on their own free will, and that they should keep 100% of the fruits of their labor. Their is no need for a violent middle man (Government).

 

[Poor Stargazer]

Yeah, i remember that movie, Mad Max right lol. Well at least we agree that the current corporfascism doesnt work. Feel free to pm me my friend. It was nice to speak with you.

 

[Finding Sirius]

Yeah, i remember that movie, Mad Max right lol. Well at least we agree that the current corporfascism doesnt work. Feel free to pm me my friend. It was nice to speak with you.

Likewise. Also, please look into true Anarchy, nothing Mad Max about it, lol.

 

[obafgkm]

Only the powerful can give away power. The powerless can't take power from the powerful. The system (democracy, anarchy, etc.) is a result. It's not that people want some features in a system and it will become true.

No central authority sounds ideal. But even if you don't trust anyone it doesn't mean other people can't cooperate to undercut you. It's like cryptos. It sounds zeros trust but then how can you trust others to keep the ledges for you. There will soon emerge powerful cartels to exploit the powerless "no trust" individuals, like "your cryptos have been stolen". Then you want some higher power (like carrying a gun to the office? if that's powerful enough) to get your cryptos back.... Meanwhile the powerful cartels will continue to promote "no trust" among individuals because in that way they are no threat, easy to control and manipulate.

 

[Finding Sirius]

Only the powerful can give away power. The powerless can't take power from the powerful. The system (democracy, anarchy, etc.) is a result. It's not that people want some features in a system and it will become true.

No central authority sounds ideal. But even if you don't trust anyone it doesn't mean other people can't cooperate to undercut you. It's like cryptos. It sounds zeros trust but then how can you trust others to keep the ledges for you. There will soon emerge powerful cartels to exploit the powerless "no trust" individuals, like "your cryptos have been stolen". Then you want some higher power (like carrying a gun to the office? if that's powerful enough) to get your cryptos back.... Meanwhile the powerful cartels will continue to promote "no trust" among individuals because in that way they are no threat, easy to control and manipulate.

Organization does not have to be built on trust. People organization all the time, not out of trust but mutual interest. You really think that in a decentralized world people would simply let cartels run amok simply because they don't trust one another? No, in fact they would band together to put a stop to it. Trust has nothing to do with it, people for the most part will do what is in their best interest. A cartel stealing everyone's crypto is a no no.

Think of it this way, when you apply to a job do you trust your employer? No, on the contrary, you want money and the employer wants someone to make them money. Trust doesn't even come into the picture, they both have something the other wants. I can also use the example of private security firms. People want protection so they hire people willing to do that for money. Agian is there trust needed? No, it's just business out of personal interest. Nothing more nothing less. Said security firm could be contracted to deal with the cartel, just business.

 

[obafgkm]

Organization does not have to be built on trust. People organization all the time, not out of trust but mutual interest. You really think that in a decentralized world people would simply let cartels run amok simply because they don't trust one another? No, in fact they would band together to put a stop to it. Trust has nothing to do with it, people for the most part will do what is in their best interest. A cartel stealing everyone's crypto is a no no.

Think of it this way, when you apply to a job do you trust your employer? No, on the contrary, you want money and the employer wants someone to make them money. Trust doesn't even come into the picture, they both have something the other wants. I can also use the example of private security firms. People want protection so they hire people willing to do that for money. Agian is there trust needed? No, it's just business out of personal interest. Nothing more nothing less. Said security firm could be contracted to deal with the cartel, just business.

I suppose in theory a society can operate purely on "interest" alone, and then people can group together to achieve balance of power. But then such a society would probably be very inefficient. Other groups with more efficient ways of organization (such as religion/faith, myths, brotherhood, fraternity, family, ethnicity, nationalism) would win, because their members have certain things in common that they can trust/ assume each other to behave in a predictable manner, saving energy on a lot of guarding and checking all the time.

Like an employment contract. In theory one can go all the way to court to resolve any dispute. But that's costly. Another gang just go "bros, trust me" and then get things done, will win.

I don't know what an ideal society should look like. I guess it's somewhere in between. People can't, or shouldn't, very much trust a government or any authority. But some trust here and there will simplify and smooth things a lot.

If a payment service (like PayPal, or a bank) can guarantee to make anonymous payments on behalf of clients without leaking their identities, such service could easily replace cryptos. It just depends on how much buyers and sellers can trust such a middle person. Probably not much at the moment.