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dreambound

dreambound

Student
Dec 14, 2021
110
i would much appreciate your views on this as i don't have much contact with people & do not have any answers......How do pro-lifers/normies that you
have spoken to ....how do they justify the appalling suffering in this world, are they even aware of it as a reality? or is it just something they hear on the
news?......everyone i know has experienced some degree of tragedy.........surely if pro-lifers knew the reality of suffering we would have a humane exit strategy
legislation in society tomorrow...
 
Britvik

Britvik

Pro-choice
Mar 1, 2022
143
I think many "pro-lifers/normies" have experienced some level of suffering and are sympathetic to those going through it, at least to some degree. Sociopaths and psychopaths however….. not so much!

Most people try not to be selfish, but something that requires effort is occasionally going to be overlooked or avoided. So, we see selfishness around us on a daily basis. Someone else's suffering might not be important to someone who is temporarily wrapped-up in their own life.

Then there is the sheer amount of suffering. It's an inescapable part of life. If we were to continually focus on everybody else's suffering, as well as our own, the resulting despair would threaten the existence of our species, as everybody would be suicidal (probably). So, some of it is less to do with selfishness and more to do with the practicalities of existence. It's another reason we should be charitable to those who do try to show kindness.
Just my 2 cents.
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
43,269
The way I see it, I think that pro lifers have a different world view. Many have not suffered much in life, so they are able to be mostly blind to all the suffering that goes on in the world. They cannot comprehend what it is like to want to die. They hear about it, but it is all so distant to them and it is not part of their personal reality. They are focused on their own lives instead.
 
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W

waitingforrest

Elementalist
Dec 27, 2021
842
The pro-lifers I only talk to are my therapist. At least we can talk without arguing.

When I bring up that I don't want to live when I am older, I usually get this response. "You must find your purpose and meaning in life so you don't want ctb :D" But in all reality, I don't care about what purpose I have, I'm not going to make a big impact on the world, not going to cure cancer. I'd rather not interact with the world and tell it to go f**k itself.

My therapist constantly says we are all unique and important. But I can't believe it. We just one of billions, the chances of finding some with the same traits is high. And even when we die, we will just be replaced with the other hundred of babies born each day.

Iike a ant in a sea of other ants born for one purpose, work then die. Stuck in a constant hive mind. When a ant gets squashed, no one notices. No one cares.

And when I say that I feel my life would get worse, the say it won't. Like they can guarantee it 100%. Sorry therapist, not everybody gets a happy ending. They then continue to say that I will miss out on so much good things life has to offer, and that is the point, I don't care what good life has to offer. We all die anyways, rich or poor.

There are many more examples of them sprouting positive bs. But one thing is all consistent, they view the world with rose-tinted glasses, and condem me for wearing gray glasses, for being irrational and pessimistic, for seeing the world negatively.

It is a denial of the suffering of other people, citing their own experiences and sucess as absolute facts. And when I do the same, I am wrong because my experiences doesn't mean "the world is bad". Which is it then?

The fact is there are literally so many other humans dieing and suffering, and they have the audacity to say they care about everyone. But really, like most people, they never think about it too much. They claim they are all ethical and good, but the very foundation of their life is built upon the pain of others. We are all at fault to this, it is impossible to live without taking something, heck even the c02 we breathe out is making the planet worse. At least I don't claim myself as some sort of savior like the pro-lifers do.

It's a feeling that they got better and you could too. Unable to acknowledge the fact that there are some pains that never go away. Constant pain and suffering can drive anyone to consider ctb sadly. Pain isn't always temporary. Saying stupid things like suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

They jerk off to inspirational stories of people overcoming hardship, "John is such a strong person. He always wanted to have two ears, with enough effort and motivation, he overcome his pain and grew ten more ears!! So inspiring!!! :D :D :D" The media doesn't want to report on someone's mental state getting worse and worse. They don't want to see that, it makes them feel bad.

The constant happy bs that they say. The constant guarentees of the future. The constant saying, "We care about you, you are not alone".

And the ultimate cherry on top, "just talk to someone if you need help". But not many suicidal people want to talk to someone that is more focused on making motivational speeches instead of actually listening.

And the misconception that they have of acknowledging someone's suicidal thoughts is the same as, you should ctb, or: YOU MUST BE TELLING THEM TO COMMIT CTB AHHHHHH!!!!!!! I MUST CALL THE COPS AND WRAP YOU WITH 19 METERS OF BUBBLE WRAP TO KEEP YOU FROM HARMING YOURSELF!!!!!!.

(Apologies for caps, it just felt right. Exaggerated obviously.)

This pro-life ideology is embedded deep in society. They treat the mentally ill like prisoners. Think all violent people must have mental illnesses. Say we all have the right to refuse medical care, but all that goes out the window if you are suicidal. Forced into treatments to be fixed or cured. Consent forms are more like, either you sign it or we will get the court to sign it for you because you are clearly stupid and out of touch with reality. Even the terms mental illness and commit ctb, "illness" as something is sick in the mind and violent, "commit" as if to imply a crime.

They think suicidal people have something wrong with them that needs to be fixed. At least it's true from my experiences.

The truth is, you never know what someone is going through until you walk a mile in some else's shoes. Pro-lifers need to run a marathon. As if there is a rift preventing them from trying to understand. Pain is subjective, and some never go away. Pro-lifers can't understand that you can't try to make people love life, that shallow definitions of sucess don't bring happiness. That their lack of open-mindedness is what fuels people to feel alone and hated.

Sometimes we just want to talk to someone, but few understand. No wonder why so many people feel alone.


Sorry got off topic. I have no idea what I just rambled on about.
 
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Britvik

Britvik

Pro-choice
Mar 1, 2022
143
The pro-lifers I only talk to are my therapist. At least we can talk without arguing.

When I bring up that I don't want to live when I am older, I usually get this response. "You must find your purpose and meaning in life so you don't want ctb :D" But in all reality, I don't care about what purpose I have, I'm not going to make a big impact on the world, not going to cure cancer. I'd rather not interact with the world and tell it to go f**k itself.

My therapist constantly says we are all unique and important. But I can't believe it. We just one of billions, the chances of finding some with the same traits is high. And even when we die, we will just be replaced with the other hundred of babies born each day.

Iike a ant in a sea of other ants born for one purpose, work then die. Stuck in a constant hive mind. When a ant gets squashed, no one notices. No one cares.

And when I say that I feel my life would get worse, the say it won't. Like they can guarantee it 100%. Sorry therapist, not everybody gets a happy ending. They then continue to say that I will miss out on so much good things life has to offer, and that is the point, I don't care what good life has to offer. We all die anyways, rich or poor.

There are many more examples of them sprouting positive bs. But one thing is all consistent, they view the world with rose-tinted glasses, and condem me for wearing gray glasses, for being irrational and pessimistic, for seeing the world negatively.

It is a denial of the suffering of other people, citing their own experiences and sucess as absolute facts. And when I do the same, I am wrong because my experiences doesn't mean "the world is bad". Which is it then?

The fact is there are literally so many other humans dieing and suffering, and they have the audacity to say they care about everyone. But really, like most people, they never think about it too much. They claim they are all ethical and good, but the very foundation of their life is built upon the pain of others. We are all at fault to this, it is impossible to live without taking something, heck even the c02 we breathe out is making the planet worse. At least I don't claim myself as some sort of savior like the pro-lifers do.

It's a feeling that they got better and you could too. Unable to acknowledge the fact that there are some pains that never go away. Constant pain and suffering can drive anyone to consider ctb sadly. Pain isn't always temporary. Saying stupid things like suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

They jerk off to inspirational stories of people overcoming hardship, "John is such a strong person. He always wanted to have two ears, with enough effort and motivation, he overcome his pain and grew ten more ears!! So inspiring!!! :D :D :D" The media doesn't want to report on someone's mental state getting worse and worse. They don't want to see that, it makes them feel bad.

The constant happy bs that they say. The constant guarentees of the future. The constant saying, "We care about you, you are not alone".

And the ultimate cherry on top, "just talk to someone if you need help". But not many suicidal people want to talk to someone that is more focused on making motivational speeches instead of actually listening.

And the misconception that they have of acknowledging someone's suicidal thoughts is the same as, you should ctb, or: YOU MUST BE TELLING THEM TO COMMIT CTB AHHHHHH!!!!!!! I MUST CALL THE COPS AND WRAP YOU WITH 19 METERS OF BUBBLE WRAP TO KEEP YOU FROM HARMING YOURSELF!!!!!!.

(Apologies for caps, it just felt right. Exaggerated obviously.)

This pro-life ideology is embedded deep in society. They treat the mentally ill like prisoners. Think all violent people must have mental illnesses. Say we all have the right to refuse medical care, but all that goes out the window if you are suicidal. Forced into treatments to be fixed or cured. Consent forms are more like, either you sign it or we will get the court to sign it for you because you are clearly stupid and out of touch with reality. Even the terms mental illness and commit ctb, "illness" as something is sick in the mind and violent, "commit" as if to imply a crime.

They think suicidal people have something wrong with them that needs to be fixed. At least it's true from my experiences.

The truth is, you never know what someone is going through until you walk a mile in some else's shoes. Pro-lifers need to run a marathon. As if there is a rift preventing them from trying to understand. Pain is subjective, and some never go away. Pro-lifers can't understand that you can't try to make people love life, that shallow definitions of sucess don't bring happiness. That their lack of open-mindedness is what fuels people to feel alone and hated.

Sometimes we just want to talk to someone, but few understand. No wonder why so many people feel alone.


Sorry got off topic. I have no idea what I just rambled on about.

I enjoyed reading all that, strangely enough. I understand your perspective and agree with the points you make. There is too much suffering and cruelty in the world. We are relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things. People do manipulate others and seek to gain an advantage over them. A lot of the help and advice on offer is insincere. We are all ignorant of what others are going through. And so on. It's difficult, if not impossible, to argue with any of it.

So, why not kill ourselves?

I will only speak for myself, as someone who has been close to ending it all on a couple of occasions (years ago). At the time, it seemed like a rational decision; I was miserable and hated life. I won't go into details here, suffice to say I suffered from depression for a long time. Then, something changed.

Around the age of 30 I met the woman who is now my wife. I was a care-free (and care-less) young man who drank, smoked, took every drug available and didn't give a shit about the consequences. Why should I have cared about my health? I wanted to die. But, this woman looked at me differently. For some weird reason, that I still struggle to comprehend, she cared about me. She was clean living, happy, kind, well respected and good fun. Our relationship developed rapidly to the point where I decided to quit the job I hated, sell my house and move country to be with her - all within 6 months of us meeting one another!

Now, I know what you're thinking: Here's another one of those bullshit stories… rose-tinted spectacles… John with 10 ears… etc… etc… But, you're wrong. I do listen. I do understand pain and suffering. And, I know life can improve in almost all cases. I've seen it many times, now that I'm over halfway through the average lifespan. More importantly, I've lived it. There's no question I've been fortunate; I certainly wouldn't argue with that! But, I would argue that my good fortune came because I gave it a chance to. I persisted through the pain.

Life is tough, I'll grant you that. But, it can also be incredibly beautiful. The only way to fully experience it is to open your mind and your heart. The choice is yours alone and I support that 100%.

My sincere best wishes.
 
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dreambound

dreambound

Student
Dec 14, 2021
110
thankyou all for your thoughtful perspectives on this.....
 
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