the question is if we want a r/suicidality or a r/suicide

[little helpers]

below is what I commented somewhere but I guess no one has seen it. I wanna make myself heard lol. so here's this.

On the other hand, there's so much stigma in society regarding death and suicide, it still surprises me that the SS wasn't shut down completely. Although, with more and more restrictions on the way, it will probably just becomes another reddit or worse, another facebook page.

this is what I feel like SS has already become as of now, sadly. I keep finding myself wanting to explain and to legitimize, to exonerate myself of blame when I try to say it's kinda boring here now. but I don't think I gotta put on a defense to say that. there are many different categories people's suicidality can fall into. and we naturally enjoy connecting with those more like us. I'm not here looking for someone support me *through* my suicidality. I'm looking down on a day when it can finally be over now. it goes without saying that getting each group with themselves makes them feel better supported, *without excluding* the other group from one's conversation. the first group discusses suicidality, second group talks about suicide. there is a *profound* difference between two. like if you go create two subreddits, r/suicidality is going to attract very different people than to r/suicide, though the overlap is still there. that's what sections used to do in the past. and now? barely. content from the second group doesn't pass through. and we all self-censoring ourselves here.

I can go on and on about suicidology. I have theories. but it's important to recognize that both groups need a space, despite the line being blurry.

bold-italics cuz that feels important to me. I apologize if this comes off as too dramatic. and like, there *is* an alternative at the moment. I run into problems with registration so I'm just lurking there now.

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and I totally agree with many others on @D&D 's thread. that we're getting distracted from real community-building. that suicide is a sacred human right. any thoughts?

 

[needed_]

below is what I commented somewhere but I guess no one has seen it. I wanna make myself heard lol. so here's this.


this is what I feel like SS has already become as of now, sadly. I keep finding myself wanting to explain and to legitimize, to exonerate myself of blame when I try to say it's kinda boring here now. but I don't think I gotta put on a defense to say that. there are many different categories people's suicidality can fall into. and we naturally enjoy connecting with those more like us. I'm not here looking for someone support me *through* my suicidality. I'm looking down on a day when it can finally be over now. it goes without saying that getting each group with themselves makes them feel better supported, *without excluding* the other group from one's conversation. the first group discusses suicidality, second group talks about suicide. there is a *profound* difference between two. like if you go create two subreddits, r/suicidality is going to attract very different people than to r/suicide, though the overlap is still there. that's what sections used to do in the past. and now? barely. content from the second group doesn't pass through. and we all self-censoring ourselves here.

I can go on and on about suicidology. I have theories. but it's important to recognize that both groups need a space, despite the line being blurry.

bold-italics cuz that feels important to me. I apologize if this comes off as too dramatic. and like, there *is* an alternative at the moment. I run into problems with registration so I'm just lurking there now.

—————————————————————

and I totally agree with many others on @D&D 's thread. that we're getting distracted from real community-building. that suicide is a sacred human right. any thoughts?

I really understand what you say and it's exactly why I also registered at the alternative. your account should be fine - I didn't get an email so after a few days I just logged in and it said lurker but after a few posts it said member ;)

 

[*Psyche*]

@little helpers although I get you're trying to make a point about the differences between the two, I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about? Do you mean the difference between suicidal ideation & actively planning?

 

[can_ash_be_redeemed]

In reference to this, as a newcomer, what were some of the veterans' favorite parts of the old way the site worked? I think I would have liked to see it. Reading through some of the old goodbye posts almost made me wonder if the problems that were developing there got some of them to bump up their due dates a little.

 

[little helpers]

@little helpers although I get you're trying to make a point about the differences between the two, I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about? Do you mean the difference between suicidal ideation & actively planning?

I think it's more complex than that. if you're familiar with psychology terms there's "egosyntonic" and "egodystonic" versions of experiences or ideations. that's not limited to suicidality. to put this into context, a egodystonically suicidal person might say, "life fucking sucks and is painful all the time. though I do want something out of it. even if I'm not having that something now." whereas a egosyntonically suicidal person might express something like this, "there's just nothing in life that I ever want now. and I assure you it's permanent. I'm just dragging this body all along."

I been out of school for a long while now. so I don't know what academics gon say about my theories. IMO there's passive and active suicidalities; suicidalities that are egodystonic and egosyntonic; suicidal ideation and suicidal impulse; solace of choice and solace of death; dissociated suicidality and grounded suicidality; suicidality influenced by perspectives and by visceral feelings. much too complicated. I think it deserves a more serious analysis. yeah.

In reference to this, as a newcomer, what were some of the veterans' favorite parts of the old way the site worked? I think I would have liked to see it. Reading through some of the old goodbye posts almost made me wonder if the problems that were developing there got some of them to bump up their due dates a little.

I don't count as a veteran either but I joined when method-talk was still here. so, I think engaging in method discussions definitely is a way to cope for some. like before I got started on dope I would read a lot on it and feel kinda empowered. for me it has a lot to do with self-censoring. I suppose nobody likes that. if people are fine with it, it just means they don't need a r/suicide as of now. that their contents pass through. mine won't. besides method-talking being a precious chance for harm reduction and stuff. that's what I think.

 

[D&D]

Hi @little helpers

I agree with you.

Suicide is a human right. Nobody needs a permission or approval to end their lives if/when they decide to do so. Providing one's decision is truly their own and freely made.

There is a both difference and overlap between 'suicidality' and 'suicide.' My own learning had led me to observe that 'suicidality' can act as a coping mechanism ... the 'who cares I am gonna die soon anyway' mentality that, in some way, both shields but also isolates from the 'real' or outside world. The longer it goes on, the more separate, disengaged from the outside world one becomes. In my view there are three 'roads' out of it; a) recovery (rare but not impossible), b) living with permanent suicidality which basically means unable to either recover or die, which, in my humble opinion, lots of SS members found themselves in and c) death by suicide. In my view, building a supportive community means recognizing and accepting all three.

We all self-censor to larger or smaller degree. In addition to written, publicized rules, there are also some unspoken rules that govern every forum or similar where people express their points of view. I have never quite managed to grasp those rules, but I am aware that they exist on here as they do elsewhere.

 

[*Psyche*]

@little helpers & @D&D
Thank you both for your insight. Oddly, I do have a Bachelor's in psychology, but I'm not using it professionally & university was a while ago (haha). So, what you both said makes sense & has clarified your OP for me. Thank you, again, so much!

 

[little helpers]

There is a both difference and overlap between 'suicidality' and 'suicide.' My own learning had led me to observe that 'suicidality' can act as a coping mechanism ... the 'who cares I am gonna die soon anyway' mentality that, in some way, both shields but also isolates from the 'real' or outside world. The longer it goes on, the more separate, disengaged from the outside world one becomes. In my view there are three 'roads' out of it; a) recovery (rare but not impossible), b) living with permanent suicidality which basically means unable to either recover or die, which, in my humble opinion, lots of SS members found themselves in and c) death by suicide. In my view, building a supportive community means recognizing and accepting all three.

woah, I like this. and it rings a bell as soon as I read it cuz that's a huge addict mentality as well. the "nobody cares and I don't give a fuck." feels rebellious and invincible. right. it's claiming back one's self-determination when everything feels utterly out of control. sticking a needle to my arm is a "fuck you" message. but hey little helpers, you fucked yourself right there. and now there's neither a life nor an out.

it hits home. and I like your interpretation of that. that it's not simply "solace of choice" versus "solace of death". I've learned something from you. truly appreciate it.