Discussion The motives behind religious conversion.

[Forever Sleep]

When you get the occassional (usual) pair of people at your door, trying to convert you to their religion, do you ever wonder what their motives are?

I actually sort of admire them to feel so strongly about something, they will brave foul weather and give up their time to spread the word- so long as they aren't pushy about it. To clarify, I'm unsure about the existence of God but I lean towards atheism. I don't like many aspects of orthodox religion though. So, I'm not a good candidate for them!

I do wonder though. Are they genuinely concerned for my/ our soul(s)? I think that's rather nice. Do they think they'll impress their God if they recruit more followers? But then, why does an all powerful God even need a fan club anyway? Or, are they just doing what they're told? I tend to think religion is a business like any other. Churches and places of worship need 'customers', or else they get shut down. Does it hurt God when people turn away from them?

 

[Pluto]

 

[SchizoGymnast]

When you get the occassional (usual) pair of people at your door, trying to convert you to their religion, do you ever wonder what their motives are?

I actually sort of admire them to feel so strongly about something, they will brave foul weather and give up their time to spread the word- so long as they aren't pushy about it. To clarify, I'm unsure about the existence of God but I lean towards atheism. I don't like many aspects of orthodox religion though. So, I'm not a good candidate for them!

I do wonder though. Are they genuinely concerned for my/ our soul(s)? I think that's rather nice. Do they think they'll impress their God if they recruit more followers? But then, why does an all powerful God even need a fan club anyway? Or, are they just doing what they're told? I tend to think religion is a business like any other. Churches and places of worship need 'customers', or else they get shut down. Does it hurt God when people turn away from them?

This is a great question. I am an adult convert to religion myself so I feel uniquely qualified.

It depends heavily on the religion, on the country, etc but I would say that people on the bottom genuinely care. People at the top are just grifters terrorizing the people on the bottom to do their bidding.

I think it's always wise to question the motives of missionaries to approach you. Missionaries aren't automatically good people and they do, by definition, have an agenda.

God isn't hurt when people turn away from missionaries. God isn't affected at all. God is an energy, a presence, and eternity, time and space itself. In my opinion anyway. God isn't concerned for better or worse with missionary activities. God will continue to be. To the extent that God sense missionaries, it's so people can benefit from tapping into this force called God, not because God needs anything.

I hope that made sense. It's just my opinion of course!

 

[amerie]

I think it's the same logic of a child going door to door to find children to play with, they want to build a community of people who will agree to their teachings. I apologize for the simplistic response.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think it's the same logic of a child going door to door to find children to play with, they want to build a community of people who will agree to their teachings. I apologize for the simplistic response.

That's not simplistic at all. It makes a lot of sense and, isn't something I thought about. A genuine desire for community is much nicer than my cynical interpretation of putting bums on seats.

 

[amerie]

That's not simplistic at all. It makes a lot of sense and, isn't something I thought about. A genuine desire for community is much nicer than my cynical interpretation of putting bums on seats.

It probably is a lot more cynical than how I worded it, they probably need members to fill seats so they can evade taxes and collect tithing to go on mysterious trips to an island.

 

[Aergia]

I think the reasons they believe they're doing it are quite possibly different from the real reasons they're doing it. Which is to say they probably think they're doing it to save souls but are more likely doing it for reasons similar to what amerie said.

Doing it to save souls implies some kind of compassion is felt towards said souls, but believing in these ideologies often entails not having compassion for the outgroup.

Which sounds cynical, but it's quite simply the way a lot of religions are structured, especially the Abrahamic ones; you're expected to believe that the majority of humans (who did not receive the conditioning that you did) are going to burn forever, and that this is totally okay, God is good, etc.

 

[Dejected 55]

It's pretty much the same as Amway... missionaries are conditioned in their teachings to convert as many people as they can and they gain status within their church for doing so. I don't know if they get outright prizes or compensation for it, though I suspect some do, but they definitely are promised "afterlife credits" or something to motivate them to expand the reach of their particular congregation.

There are likely some missionaries who truly do believe in their religion and truly do want to spread the word... it's possible. Two things can be true. But it's just not the driving force behind most of the efforts to spread the religion.

Churches are VERY much buying in to the "you're either with me or against me" mantra.

 

[orbit]

There's recently been an influx of Jehovas Witnesses in my town, I used to just tell them to fuck off as I think it's mad disrespectful to come to someones door and preach that stuff, if a muslim or jew did it that would cause outrage but christians are somehow allowed?

But someone pointed out to me that these churches actually do want you to react that way. They tell their followers the outside world is scary and filled with horrible people and they know damn well that going to someones door uninvited is going to cause a negative reaction and be very unlikely to work- they make them do it to reinforce the thought that the church is their only safe place and to stick with their own people instead of going out into the real world. They know it doesn't work, that's why they make them do it.

Personally I am agnostic. I do believe there probably is some sort of God or external factor at play, I'm probably a bit of a pantheist. I mainly believe that all of the religions that we follow are manmade and humans cannot possibly determine what a God would want.

 

[Forever Sleep]

But someone pointed out to me that these churches actually do want you to react that way. They tell their followers the outside world is scary and filled with horrible people and they know damn well that going to someones door uninvited is going to cause a negative reaction and be very unlikely to work- they make them do it to reinforce the thought that the church is their only safe place and to stick with their own people instead of going out into the real world. They know it doesn't work, that's why they make them do it.

Oh shit, that's scary! What a mannipulative tactic. I try not to be rude to them. They're not as bad as people trying to sell you stuff or, 'chuggers' (charity muggers.) I find they can be really obnoxious. Plus, I'm sure they get paid. Like yeah- I'm going to give to your charity to pay someone like you to harass people.

One chap kept trying to reassure me that Jesus was going to arrive soon and save us all. I mean- who knows? Maybe he's right but I couldn't help but cynically think- I think you're going to end up disappointed.

I used to think I was an agnostic but then, the definition doesn't suit me. It's something like- a person who doesn't believe the existence of God can be proven. If Jesus, God or whoever else lands tomorrow and starts performing miracles- I'll believe.

But yeah, I know what you mean. If anything, I would lean towards a spirituality rather than an orthodox religion. I also suspect they could be manmade and, enormously manipulative.

 

[Dejected 55]

Randomly... and this was many years ago...

I was in a Wendy's and had been out to shop for groceries and stopped there for a quick/cheap meal. Not too many people eating in that afternoon. A group of people came in after I did. I think it was like 5 or so people, mostly older, but one younger woman in the group. She was not young as in a kid, but younger than the older people.

Anyway, they sat together and ate. At some point, as I often would do when eating at Wendy's, I finished my meal and got back in line for a Frosty for dessert. While I was in line, that group of people got up to leave. On their way out, the younger woman approached me, like purposefully walked straight up to me in the line and no one else. She looked right at me and said, "Jesus wanted me to tell you that he loves you." I was dumbstruck. I am an atheist, and it genuinely appeared she was coming from a kind place so I didn't want to tell her to fuck off with that noise... but I didn't know how to respond. I think she picked up on that and she just smiled and walked back to her group and they left. They had talked to no one else in there the entire time.

It was an odd experience. Also, not going to lie... she was actually attractive, and for a moment I considered if I should try and have a conversation... but in the moment that felt wrong too. I mean, if she was a fraud, then fuck her! But if she was, as I suspected, being genuine about her religious faith... then it would be dishonest of me to engage her in anything other than something like, "I appreciate the sentiment but I am an atheist." If I then tried to hit on her after that, it just seemed like it would have been wrong.

Anyway, I've never experienced a Jehovah's witness visit I don't think. I do remember seeing guys riding bicycles wearing suits in neighborhoods and figured that was their gig, but I never was visited by any of them. I did have a man once knock on the door and he was giving out a CD of his Christian rap music. I thought that was interesting. I think I still have the CD somewhere. I thought it was a different way to spread kindness.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Randomly... and this was many years ago...

I was in a Wendy's and had been out to shop for groceries and stopped there for a quick/cheap meal. Not too many people eating in that afternoon. A group of people came in after I did. I think it was like 5 or so people, mostly older, but one younger woman in the group. She was not young as in a kid, but younger than the older people.

Anyway, they sat together and ate. At some point, as I often would do when eating at Wendy's, I finished my meal and got back in line for a Frosty for dessert. While I was in line, that group of people got up to leave. On their way out, the younger woman approached me, like purposefully walked straight up to me in the line and no one else. She looked right at me and said, "Jesus wanted me to tell you that he loves you." I was dumbstruck. I am an atheist, and it genuinely appeared she was coming from a kind place so I didn't want to tell her to fuck off with that noise... but I didn't know how to respond. I think she picked up on that and she just smiled and walked back to her group and they left. They had talked to no one else in there the entire time.

It was an odd experience. Also, not going to lie... she was actually attractive, and for a moment I considered if I should try and have a conversation... but in the moment that felt wrong too. I mean, if she was a fraud, then fuck her! But if she was, as I suspected, being genuine about her religious faith... then it would be dishonest of me to engage her in anything other than something like, "I appreciate the sentiment but I am an atheist." If I then tried to hit on her after that, it just seemed like it would have been wrong.

Anyway, I've never experienced a Jehovah's witness visit I don't think. I do remember seeing guys riding bicycles wearing suits in neighborhoods and figured that was their gig, but I never was visited by any of them. I did have a man once knock on the door and he was giving out a CD of his Christian rap music. I thought that was interesting. I think I still have the CD somewhere. I thought it was a different way to spread kindness.

I agree. I think it probably came from a good place- her telling you Jesus loves you. I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt. Maybe she reminds a person every day that they are loved. Sweet really although, yeah, I wouldn't have known how to respond either. 'Thanks' probably although- my truthful response would have been more cynical... As in- 'I'm not so keen on how God expresses their 'love'! I've no interest in being in an abusive relationship but, the sentiment is nice.'