Discussion The glorification of soldiers is truly hypocritical.

[Dandelion's]

I'd like to prefice this by saying: This is about soldiers who voluntarily go to war.

I don't understand how murder is universally deemed as horrible even if it's euthanasia, while soldiers are praised for murdering people, who actually have the will to live.

Let's face it soldiers are glorified murderer.

You are not doing a service to your country you are perpetuating the control of a government who sees you as a mere tool.

 

[itsgone2]

I'll respectfully disagree.
A close friend went into the marines after high school. It's a good option when you're poor. When young you don't anticipate war. Certainly not then.
Then the wars in the Middle East began. Both parties to blame. He had a close friend die next to him when a wall collapsed on them. Others died too. A few survivors. A random miracle.
Now he deals with PTSD among other issues.
Every military person I know served to try to better their lives. It sucks to be lied to. I'd rather support them than vilify them.

 

[LastNite]

I'll respectfully disagree.
A close friend went into the marines after high school. It's a good option when you're poor. When young you don't anticipate war. Certainly not then.
Then the wars in the Middle East began. Both parties to blame. He had a close friend die next to him when a wall collapsed on them. Others died too. A few survivors. A random miracle.
Now he deals with PTSD among other issues.
Every military person I know served to try to better their lives. It sucks to be lied to. I'd rather support them than vilify them.

Nothing is heroic about fighting a rich man's war. You trust their word without knowing what they did overseas.
The amount of rapes, massacres, and tortures carried out by our military across the ocean is insane.

When they find out a soldier did it they'll slap him on the wrist and give him a light sentence.
A road bomb went off killing a bunch of soldiers (sad), in revenge a bunch of marines went out and started killing civilians (24 including kids & women not related to the terrorists).
All charges were dismissed against them even though there was credible evidence of war crimes. Only 1 out of 8 marines got a demotion in rank and decrease in pay with no murder charges.

When they go back home to hug their kids with their blood filled hands no one will remember what they did to those kids overseas.
A lot of these soldiers do it and not everyone gets caught doing it.

 

[Awesomefoid67]

voluntarily choosing to be a soldier is just volunteering to go fight for billionaires and imperialism, one of the worst choices you could possibly make like atleast morally/ethically speaking
i'd go so far as to say soldiers deserve whatever bad stuff happens to them in those cases tbh.

 

[bagel12]

before social media existed, many people were not fully informed on the evils of the US military. the US military specifically recruits from low income high schools and offers free healthcare, free housing, free college tuition, a stable job and a salary. it makes sense why some teenagers take the offer if they are uninformed about the military and desperate for housing, healthcare, and a stable job (and if they join in peacetime, they may never expect to be involved in a war).

regardless, some of them end up directly committing atrocities against their fellow human beings, usually because billionaires want oil. and all of them indirectly contribute to these atrocities because of their work supporting the war machine.

this is why the US will never implement free healthcare, housing, and college tuition, because they would lose all of their soldiers.

as a society we need to become comfortable with the idea that an individual can be both a victim in some ways and a perpetrator in others, this is how i view veterans. this is why it's important to push back against glorification of the military, push back against US imperialism, and push back against the way the military treats human beings as disposable.

 

[Dandelion's]

I'll respectfully disagree.
A close friend went into the marines after high school. It's a good option when you're poor. When young you don't anticipate war. Certainly not then.
Then the wars in the Middle East began. Both parties to blame. He had a close friend die next to him when a wall collapsed on them. Others died too. A few survivors. A random miracle.
Now he deals with PTSD among other issues.
Every military person I know served to try to better their lives. It sucks to be lied to. I'd rather support them than vilify them.

Although I am sorry about what happened, this is about soldiers who voluntarily went if your friend wasn't forced he certainly did awful things in my opinion. PTSD doesn't automatically make you a good person.

before social media existed, many people were not fully informed on the evils of the US military. the US military specifically recruits from low income high schools and offers free healthcare, free housing, free college tuition, a stable job and a salary. it makes sense why some teenagers take the offer if they are uninformed about the military and desperate for housing, healthcare, and a stable job (and if they join in peacetime, they may never expect to be involved in a war).

regardless, some of them end up directly committing atrocities against their fellow human beings, usually because billionaires want oil. and all of them indirectly contribute to these atrocities because of their work supporting the war machine.

this is why the US will never implement free healthcare, housing, and college tuition, because they would lose all of their soldiers.

as a society we need to become comfortable with the idea that an individual can be both a victim in some ways and a perpetrator in others, this is how i view veterans. this is why it's important to push back against glorification of the military, push back against US imperialism, and push back against the way the military treats human beings as disposable.

I personally don't view them as victims if it's voluntary. if you are willing to perpetuate wars for your own good you did something selfish, even if you were a teenager.

 

[Grav]

this is why the US will never implement free healthcare, housing, and college tuition, because they would lose all of their soldiers.

That's an interesting opinion. There are so many moving parts to healthcare it would take more work than ANY person is willing to put forth. I think the blanket "thank you for your service" is overblown, mostly because of the Vietnam reaction that went after vets. Yes EVERY organization (including towns, your favorite "community", any interest group, etc) has bad people and some of those people are either given a pass or get through the system.

When they find out a soldier did it they'll slap him on the wrist and give him a light sentence.

Yep and that's why I was a chaser on two guys who got 20 years for r*, total slap on the wrist.
Many people join the military to get a jump up on life (skills, money, college money, etc) and you can say the government is taking advantage of them but at the end of the day they all signed up, unless through conscription, and even then they may still have a say. If you feel a government is doing that then do something about it. Lots of people want to yell about things without seeing how they are directly benefiting from it. 1st Gulf the "no blood for oil" crowd, while I was waiting to deploy and packing up, sure we can pull out of the Middle East. You just enjoy your gas prices, the price of anything that contains petroleum going up. I don't hear a whole lot of people looking to pay the actual cost for goods, if they even know them, if they don't want a country to get those resources, right or wrong. Most military actions by the US have been garbage and I'm a firm believer in self-defense and that's it. No "humanitarian" missions, no help some place keep/change a government, stop people from killing each other in another country for religious or ethinc hate, etc. That's what diplomats are for. Read "War is a Racket". It's a recent thing for people to see what is leading to a conflict, although even then a lot of people want to avoid what caused a certain war to erupt but still claim a moral high-ground. The US should be much more isolationist. Until then, and all the "support NATO" folks, you get to have a system that entices people to take up a weapon and go to a foreign land. To say that ever member of the military is a murderer is about a broad of a brush I've seen, maybe I should apply that logic to a lot of other groups?

 

[LastNite]

That's an interesting opinion. There are so many moving parts to healthcare it would take more work than ANY person is willing to put forth. I think the blanket "thank you for your service" is overblown, mostly because of the Vietnam reaction that went after vets. Yes EVERY organization (including towns, your favorite "community", any interest group, etc) has bad people and some of those people are either given a pass or get through the system.


Yep and that's why I was a chaser on two guys who got 20 years for r*, total slap on the wrist.
Many people join the military to get a jump up on life (skills, money, college money, etc) and you can say the government is taking advantage of them but at the end of the day they all signed up, unless through conscription, and even then they may still have a say. If you feel a government is doing that then do something about it. Lots of people want to yell about things without seeing how they are directly benefiting from it. 1st Gulf the "no blood for oil" crowd, while I was waiting to deploy and packing up, sure we can pull out of the Middle East. You just enjoy your gas prices, the price of anything that contains petroleum going up. I don't hear a whole lot of people looking to pay the actual cost for goods, if they even know them, if they don't want a country to get those resources, right or wrong. Most military actions by the US have been garbage and I'm a firm believer in self-defense and that's it. No "humanitarian" missions, no help some place keep/change a government, stop people from killing each other in another country for religious or ethinc hate, etc. That's what diplomats are for. Read "War is a Racket". It's a recent thing for people to see what is leading to a conflict, although even then a lot of people want to avoid what caused a certain war to erupt but still claim a moral high-ground. The US should be much more isolationist. Until then, and all the "support NATO" folks, you get to have a system that entices people to take up a weapon and go to a foreign land. To say that ever member of the military is a murderer is about a broad of a brush I've seen, maybe I should apply that logic to a lot of other groups?

Yep and that's why I was a chaser on two guys who got 20 years for r*, total slap on the wrist.

I dont know the tone behind this, but yeah. It really is light. If you look into the My Lai Massacre you'd understand why it is light. Imagine participating and ordering the killings of ~500 civilians just to get 3 years of house arrest in the end.

You just enjoy your gas prices, the price of anything that contains petroleum going up

I disagree with this. Theres so many ways to get oil without going to war. We already have a deal with Saudi. We never went to war with them on it. Wars only prop up prices and drive up uncertainty. For example, the US-Iran war (Israel vs. Iran In reality). We lost 14 for nothing. 14 people with families, friends, wives, husbands, etc. They all had a unique life of their own. The strait is still closed and the dictator got replaced with a young one. Nothing changed.

I agree with you on your other points. Yes, It's wrong to say that everyone is a murderer for serving in the military. I just don't trust the system that allowed them to fight. I assume you would need a psych evaluation to join up. So many people slip through that. That's the reason why we get these massacres. Sick people who find pleasure in killing unarmed people.

 

[Grav]

I agree with you on your other points. Yes, It's wrong to say that everyone is a murderer for serving in the military. I just don't trust the system that allowed them to fight.

I agree the system is the problem but those who sign up aren't making the rules. All US administrations have enjoyed executive privilege to send troops all over and Congress and the Senate are more than happy to allow it because then they aren't on the hook; sure some pose for pictures crying but that's all they do.

You don't need a psych eval unless you've been hospitalized I believe, it wasn't a standard part of intake. Now look up "Project 100,000" for some insight. The number of people who go through the US military annually makes incidents like My Lai a very small percentage of the total. There are thieves, murderers, r*, etc just like society. They do screen for criminal background but like Vietnam if the numbers are too low those things change, asthma for example.

As for oil from Saudi: the threat of military force keeps it flowing. The US can always pay whatever someone wants to charge for oil, cost gets passed to the consumer, and they cry when it gets too high. After the 1973 embargo we made plans to be able to get that oil by force. It benefits the Gulf states to have the US as an ally to buy oil vs take it by force or force a regime change, because for every leader there's a replacement waiting in the wings. Just because we haven't fought a war against a country doesn't mean we don't plan to if needed. The world reliance on rare earth minerals is the next "great game" and if needed shots will be fired.

The US should not have gone after Iran. The cost was for nothing and as with most US actions wasn't thought out, this applies to ALL administrations. Those who have the means decide what to do and for most of human history that's been the case regardless of politics.

 

[LastNite]

I agree the system is the problem but those who sign up aren't making the rules. All US administrations have enjoyed executive privilege to send troops all over and Congress and the Senate are more than happy to allow it because then they aren't on the hook; sure some pose for pictures crying but that's all they do.

You don't need a psych eval unless you've been hospitalized I believe, it wasn't a standard part of intake. Now look up "Project 100,000" for some insight. The number of people who go through the US military annually makes incidents like My Lai a very small percentage of the total. There are thieves, murderers, r*, etc just like society. They do screen for criminal background but like Vietnam if the numbers are too low those things change, asthma for example.

As for oil from Saudi: the threat of military force keeps it flowing. The US can always pay whatever someone wants to charge for oil, cost gets passed to the consumer, and they cry when it gets too high. After the 1973 embargo we made plans to be able to get that oil by force. It benefits the Gulf states to have the US as an ally to buy oil vs take it by force or force a regime change, because for every leader there's a replacement waiting in the wings. Just because we haven't fought a war against a country doesn't mean we don't plan to if needed. The world reliance on rare earth minerals is the next "great game" and if needed shots will be fired.

The US should not have gone after Iran. The cost was for nothing and as with most US actions wasn't thought out, this applies to ALL administrations. Those who have the means decide what to do and for most of human history that's been the case regardless of politics.

You make a good point. Cant say anything to that. Thanks though.

 

[Grav]

I apologize if anyone feels I'm coming at them. Having been in, relatives who were in and suffered, have friends suffering, and seeing how current events are going I get fired up. Nobody brought it up but normally when I hear statements about the military it usually comes from a political angle and very hypocritical. I've been a history and "war" observer most of my life so I know whats happening vs cleansed narratives and seeing the fallout of politicians plans on people who trusted a system or were forced to endure the worst of humanity and then be told "good luck". I think back to the picture of Baker and Schverdnaze (sp?) In the last meeting before Gulf 1 when the Russians said they would not interfere, nobody was smiling. Maybe I'm an idiot but I think that was the last time politicians thought about what was happening. It wasn't a joke and was a hard decision that would result in a lot of death. Maybe worth it, maybe not but they at least looked like they thought it through. Ideally we'd have no wars but it's a planet of humans.