The gift that kills you

[Darkover]

First of all, a gift for whom? After all, you can't give something to someone who doesn't exist. It's not that there was someone who really wanted to exist and their parents decided to grant them existence; there was no one before people decided that there would be someone, someone who didn't want, ask, or would have been disappointed if they hadn't received, the "gift" of existence. So if anything it is a gift to the parents, or to the parents of the parents who pushed for grandchildren, or to the consumer society that got another consumer, or to the state because there is another tax payer, or to the army because there is another soldier, etc. But it is certainly not a gift for those who did not exist before receiving it. Regardless of someone's quality of life, before someone existed they did not want it and therefore the created is the last to receive a gift.

Since it is not necessary, not desirable, and not in anyone's interest to exist, and since the creation of a person does not move someone to a better state, since before someone existed s/he was not in any state, there is no logic in treating the creation of a person as some kind of benefit. Reproduction is not a gift but an unnecessary creation of a vulnerable person who will inevitably experience unnecessary harms.

Beyond that, gifts are something you get for free, not something you have to work for, and for almost a lifetime.
Something is not a gift if I cannot choose not to use it. And in the case of life, keeping it in a drawer or passing it on to someone else is not an option. Everyone has to use their life in one way or another. There is no exchange note. Even ending one's life, even at a very young age, requires the use of this "gift". Which of course makes it at least not a gift. So even if you insist that life is a good thing, it is certainly not a gift and it is not granted to anyone. People are created, if their lives are relatively good then the compulsion done to them is less bad than cases of bad lives, but that does not retroactively make this compulsion a gift or something that is granted to someone.

A gift you receive for free, and you can choose to enjoy it or ignore it, but it is unlikely that gifts will harm the person who receives them. Life, on the other hand, is not something you get for free, you have to work hard for it non-stop, you can't ignore life, and it can definitely hurt those who receive it. To enjoy a gift you usually just have to use it. To enjoy life you have to work hard. And unlike gifts, if you ignore life very quickly you suffer from hunger, thirst, pain, heat, cold, boredom, frustration, loneliness, etc. It is not possible to store life somewhere and ignore it. Therefore, even if you insist that life is good, it is surely not a gift.
A gift is not something that is forced. Gifts can be returned or passed up. And gifts usually don't end in death.

 

[DoubleUp8]

First of all, a gift for whom? After all, you can't give something to someone who doesn't exist. It's not that there was someone who really wanted to exist and their parents decided to grant them existence; there was no one before people decided that there would be someone, someone who didn't want, ask, or would have been disappointed if they hadn't received, the "gift" of existence. So if anything it is a gift to the parents, or to the parents of the parents who pushed for grandchildren, or to the consumer society that got another consumer, or to the state because there is another tax payer, or to the army because there is another soldier, etc. But it is certainly not a gift for those who did not exist before receiving it. Regardless of someone's quality of life, before someone existed they did not want it and therefore the created is the last to receive a gift.

Since it is not necessary, not desirable, and not in anyone's interest to exist, and since the creation of a person does not move someone to a better state, since before someone existed s/he was not in any state, there is no logic in treating the creation of a person as some kind of benefit. Reproduction is not a gift but an unnecessary creation of a vulnerable person who will inevitably experience unnecessary harms.

Beyond that, gifts are something you get for free, not something you have to work for, and for almost a lifetime.
Something is not a gift if I cannot choose not to use it. And in the case of life, keeping it in a drawer or passing it on to someone else is not an option. Everyone has to use their life in one way or another. There is no exchange note. Even ending one's life, even at a very young age, requires the use of this "gift". Which of course makes it at least not a gift. So even if you insist that life is a good thing, it is certainly not a gift and it is not granted to anyone. People are created, if their lives are relatively good then the compulsion done to them is less bad than cases of bad lives, but that does not retroactively make this compulsion a gift or something that is granted to someone.

A gift you receive for free, and you can choose to enjoy it or ignore it, but it is unlikely that gifts will harm the person who receives them. Life, on the other hand, is not something you get for free, you have to work hard for it non-stop, you can't ignore life, and it can definitely hurt those who receive it. To enjoy a gift you usually just have to use it. To enjoy life you have to work hard. And unlike gifts, if you ignore life very quickly you suffer from hunger, thirst, pain, heat, cold, boredom, frustration, loneliness, etc. It is not possible to store life somewhere and ignore it. Therefore, even if you insist that life is good, it is surely not a gift.
A gift is not something that is forced. Gifts can be returned or passed up. And gifts usually don't end in death.

That's excellent analysis.

 

[the_path_of_sorrows]

I completely agree with you. I never asked to be born, especially to the parents with hereditary mental illness. Why would you even procreate, to not ctb yourself? This is not a gift, giving birth to the so called miracle is nothing to be proud of, nor is having a suicidal child. Being alive is a chore, nothing else. I don't consider myself a gift and I've been telling this to my parents for almost 10 years.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I guess for people who do value life, and there are some- it must seem like a miracle to them that they found themselves here and able to experience this. I suppose they are grateful for their lives so- they probably do see it as a gift. The kind of- think what I would have missed out on if my parents hadn't had me. Although- like you say- it's not like we probably even know what we're missing out on- or what we avoided even when we are non existent.

I suppose that's the other argument though- are the non existent actually 'better off'? They're literally not anything most probably.

Still yeah- I was thinking along these lines just now. Like- imagine you could start a game for someone. You know certain things about this game. It could be amazing. They could have a fantastic time. Still- you know there are some unpleasant and painful guarantees. The game will end with their death. Plus, they'll very likely have to witness loved ones dying beforehand. Plus, they are in a body that will degrade over time and is susceptible to a whole bunch of unpleasant things. Like- why would you start that for someone else? When they wouldn't even know it if you didn't? Why are these horrible things in life seen as 'normal' and acceptable to go through? Maybe because they went through some of them and to them, it still feels like a game worth playing. It baffles me though.

 

[Infinite Solipsist]

Too much of a good thing is said to be a bad thing. So for this "gift" to kill the recipient, then quantity is needed over quality? I still struggle with the fact that there are those whose lives are 1,000,000,000x worse than mine (who aren't suicidal) yet I'm supposed to be happy with mine.