The Exit Bag

[heliumornitrogen]

I have a question relating to the exit bag? The final exit book suggests using a sports sweat band to tighten the bag around your neck, while the peaceful pill handbook suggests using elastic? I find the sweatband a little tight, would this be a problem? I´m planning on using nitrogen and I´m aware there needs to be room for some air to escape.

 

[miseryh8scompany]

you need to buy some elastic cord and lock toggle, so you can adjust the tightness. I made a few myself, there's a video on youtube that helps explain

 

[heliumornitrogen]

you need to buy some elastic cord and lock toggle, so you can adjust the tightness. I made a few myself, there's a video on youtube that helps explain

Thanks, I think I´ll do that. Was it awkward to thread the elastic around the bag opening when you made them?

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

As an escape valve, I was thinking of making a hole in the bag for a small flexible tube and glue the tube in the hole with superglue. The other part of the tube goes into a bucket with water (it should be held tight in the bucket), so that air cannot enter the tube, but it can only exit. In this way it's possible to tie very tight the bag around the neck without the need to worry if it's too tight or too loose; it would also make it harder to remove the bag or to make movements that cause it to get loose.
Most of this setup should be ready before wearing the bag and securing it around the neck; it wouldn't be possible to do many adjustments while holding the breath.

 

[heliumornitrogen]

As an escape valve, I was thinking of making a hole in the bag for a small flexible tube and glue the tube in the hole with superglue. The other part of the tube goes into a bucket with water (it should be held tight in the bucket), so that air cannot enter the tube, but it can only exit. In this way it's possible to tie very tight the bag around the neck without the need to worry if it's too tight or too loose; it would also make it harder to remove the bag or to make movements that cause it to get loose.
Most of this setup should be ready before wearing the bag and securing it around the neck; it wouldn't be possible to do many adjustments while holding the breath.

Interesting, are you saying the air (carbon dioxide) that we exhale would be blown down the tube by the air that is circulating the bag from the cylinder, then that carbon dioxide would be pushed into the water without allowing any air to enter to enter the tube?

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

yes. In that way it is easy to prevent oxygen to get inside the bag, as long as it is held tight around the neck.
The tube should be long enough so that, when breathing in, the water that is sucked up the tube doesn't reach the bag.
I assume that (if there is no air inflow from a gas cylinder) every time you breath in, some water comes up the tube (like a straw), but then you breath out and the same amount of water goes back.
If you find a unidirectional valve you can obtain the same thing, without the bucket of water :)
It can probably be tested. The best would be to test it with the gas cylinder and the bag sealed, to see if the tube is large enough for the gas flow (otherwise the bag would build too much pressure)

 

[Aap]

You are trying to reinvent the wheel and be too clever by half. Stick to the standard bag. It works, and you are just adding points of failure.

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

i'm not sure that i'm adding points of failure. I've only proposed to seal the bag around the neck and let the exhaled gas go out from a tube with any kind of one-way-valve.
I'm actually trying to find ways to overcome the weak points of the exit bag and in a very simple way.
The exit bag has the problem that in case of failure (usually because the bag gets moved once one becomes uncounscious), it causes brain damage.
It also obliges the user to keep the head away from contact with any surface, because movements could remove the bag from the head.
What I have suggested is the principle of the re-breather: one tube brings one gas, another tube takes out from the mask the gas that is exhaled.
People have tried to obtain the same with a full-face snorkeling mask, which requires more caution since the seals of the mask cover a larger part of the face.
Although more reliable, it is also more expensive.

 

[Aap]

How often does the bag coming off the face occur? I'm not saying it has NEVER happened, but I am saying I would be surprised if you could cite two cases. You are attempting to solve an "issue" not by the simplest means of "proper positioning would remove this concern" but by introducing a much more complicated and untestable solution of new tubing, jars of water, and a one way valve.

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

Then tell me: how is the exit bag testable, when there is absolutely no indication on how tight or loose should be the seal around the neck? There is just a very vague indication, because it's something that cannot be specified.
And how about the tube from the gas cylinder? Do you know that it will leave a gap between the neck and the bag? How small should that gap be, in order to avoid for oxygen to enter?
I have read of people surviving it and having brain injury; there was a youtube video of such a case. Here I have read of people instinctively removing the bag from the head, after losing consciousness. Most of all, a method that has such poor predictability can cause much anxiety in a situation that is already quite anxious.
How can you say that "proper positioning would remove this concern"? You cannot know what happens after you become unconscious; you might have small convulsions, causing your body to fall on the side. There has been opinions that this method is more suitable if someone is assisting.

Have you read the threads on users that experimented successfully with a full-face scuba mask?
Have you read about the Re-breather and the CO method with formic acid and sulfuric acid?
All of these solutions have a similar principle in common; they can also be implemented with methods very similar one to another.
Cheap full-face scuba masks use the easy principle of "pressure of water on a membrane" to implement one-way valves. I have taken my idea from this.

I believe that testing the flexible plastic tube (either with a one-way valve or with 1 extremity sinked in water) is extremely easy (it's pure physics, or you just need to breath in and out the tube). It's much easier than experimenting with the tightness of the lace that holds the bag on the neck.

The principle of the exit bag is rather easy, but poorly implemented (and that's why people have been looking to the Re-breather and the masks): create a sealed chamber around your head, one tube brings gas into the bag, another tube/opening removes the gas from the bag (which should not allow, in the best case, gas flow in the opposite direction).

 

[Aap]

Ok. Knock yourself out. Let us know when you get the kinks worked out.

 

[heliumornitrogen]

Thanks, I think I´ll do that. Was it awkward to thread the elastic around the bag opening when you made them?

Does anyone know what type of nitrogen I should purchase? The peaceful pill handbook lists a couple of suppliers, but when you go to their site there are many different nitrogen options? I believe it needs to be pure nitrogen with no oxygen added, and it shouldn´t exceed 180 BAR, is this correct in your opinion?

 

[Aap]

Depending on your country, you can order online. There isn't anything special you need beyond industrial nitrogen that is greater than 99% purity.

 

[justpeachy]

yes. In that way it is easy to prevent oxygen to get inside the bag, as long as it is held tight around the neck.
The tube should be long enough so that, when breathing in, the water that is sucked up the tube doesn't reach the bag.
I assume that (if there is no air inflow from a gas cylinder) every time you breath in, some water comes up the tube (like a straw), but then you breath out and the same amount of water goes back.
If you find a unidirectional valve you can obtain the same thing, without the bucket of water :)
It can probably be tested. The best would be to test it with the gas cylinder and the bag sealed, to see if the tube is large enough for the gas flow (otherwise the bag would build too much pressure)

I just have to ask, is your username after Luka Magnotta? He makes me want to bleeeeeccchhhh all over lol.

 

[heliumornitrogen]

Depending on your country, you can order online. There isn't anything special you need beyond industrial nitrogen that is greater than 99% purity.

Thanks, I´m in the UK and I have already contacted a few suppliers, I´ll keep that in mind.

I just have to ask, is your username after Luka Magnotta? He makes me want to bleeeeeccchhhh all over lol.

"My name is Luka" is also a song by Suzanne Vega... It´s old school =)

Depending on your country, you can order online. There isn't anything special you need beyond industrial nitrogen that is greater than 99% purity.

Thanks, I´m in the UK and I have already contacted a few suppliers but I´ll keep that in mind.

 

[justpeachy]

Thanks, I´m in the UK and I have already contacted a few suppliers, I´ll keep that in mind.

"My name is Luka" is also a song by Suzanne Vega... It´s old school =)

Thanks, I´m in the UK and I have already contacted a few suppliers but I´ll keep that in mind.

Ahhh!! I'll have to check it out haha. Luka always makes me think of him now.

 

[heliumornitrogen]

Ahhh!! I'll have to check it out haha. Luka always makes me think of him now.

I´m guessing you watched the doco "don´t fuck with cats"? Yeah, he was sick and twisted. The song is good though =)

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

Ok. Knock yourself out. Let us know when you get the kinks worked out.

You are quite arrugant and offensive. It's the second time you reply in a very bad sarcastic way to me.
I'd recommend not to bully people on this forum.

 

[miseryh8scompany]

exit bag was my first option, if done properly it's practically instant and possibly even euphoric. But I don't live alone and don't imagine i would want to haul all that gear into a hotel room. Had to choose a simpler method

 

[Aap]

Huh? I said ok, knock yourself out. Let us know when you get the kinks worked out.

you aren't advocating others be your test subjects, are you? Not agreeing with a terrible idea is not the same as bullying you.

 

[Kbeau]

you need to buy some elastic cord and lock toggle, so you can adjust the tightness. I made a few myself, there's a video on youtube that helps explain

Name of video?

 

[profoundexperience]

Name of video?

Here's the video I followed...