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angelicisight

Member
Jun 4, 2023
73
I had a cool dream last night. My fan stopped working, and I think it put my mind in a special state for a couple of hours, but I also normally have unique dreams. I was at a political rally, and a politician was gaining influence by giving away money to people. It felt really conspiratorial on my side of things. I felt I was in the middle of secret meeting and tense times. It was an interesting feeling although I didn't really have much of the plot of the dream left if my memory if one was ever formed.

I only remember one scene where I stood up and declared that the use for religion has come to its end. In this dream I felt like I was a scholar of history trying to make sense of the times we are in. It's almost like I was in a war room, but instead of plotting the moving course of things as it relates to a very narrow scope of time, I was tracking movements that have been going on since the dawn of time. When I stood up and made my declaration, it was not as though I made the announcement from sudden revelation, but instead it was a connection. What I was studying with my team gave me this answer.

It was as though I was looking at religion through history, and I saw how the course of all religious effort in the institution was to make the government more humane and even compassionate. It was to keep the powerful from acting monstrously towards their people. It was meant to care for the weak. In this, religion had no meaning aside from assisting in developing the government. It held no real truth for the individual.

The idea is pretty interesting to me because I never really thought of it before. It's really contrarian to an American sentiment that wants separation from church and state although this is merely meant to be a separation of powers not of influence in original intent. It's also pretty foreign for me to think about this because I really have been occupied with other things on the mind lately. I don't really know what to do with this concept.

I do agree though that religion must end itself soon I think. Institutionally it has one last meaningful movement of contribution it can make it the humanitarian development of the government and then it can truly cease to exist. There really needs to be a religious movement that actually sparks the fire for personal freedom within the people. There is nothing like this that currently exists. Normally movements put on themselves a very stringent law and structure of power in order to succeed. Therefore a movement which goes contrary to that is quite counterintuitive to success.

However what I see is not so opposed to what has taken place formerly. It is only the same as before but with a more refined definition. Law and structure is replaced with principles of truth and discipline that allow the people the tools to form a law for themselves. We all must abide by some set of reasonably created behavior in order to find success in life, and religion has often crafted this law for us in the past. However in recent decades the people have become phenomenally educated. Truly they are educated enough to form their own law based on their own discovered value. I guess I see a final religious movement that really outlines these principles of truth along with our design to allow people to form a law of their own based on this collective journey of self discovery.

It's cool to me. The dream I had made it seem so clear, so I really appreciate it. I don't really see any opportunity for it anywhere though. People are so divided. Even here people are gripped by the strangest of ideology that is so nonsensical so as to glorify the right to take your own life. It doesn't make sense, and it doesn't matter, but it makes a lot of people here live in their own bubble of reality completely cut off from the times we live in. The real world almost becomes irrelevant in their ideology, and this is how life works for all the people living in their own bubbles today.

I don't see how anything can bring us together. Is it a period of hardship? Is it an awareness to prosperity? Is it a mixture of both or another element I can't even comprehend the relevance of? I have no idea how any movement can bring the people together in such a way, but I do feel if the people unite once more under such a cause it would in effect be the end of institutional religion entirely. I feel quite sure of it from my dream. I just have no idea how it would happen.
 
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locked*n*loaded

locked*n*loaded

Archangel
Apr 15, 2022
7,269
If you can figure out how to make it happen, count me in, as I've been hoping for just that to happen for as long as I can remember.

I was at a political rally, and a politician was gaining influence by giving away money to people.
Pretty much what they have always done. Taxing the people and redistributing it to certain "groups" is exactly what that act is meant to accomplish - influence.
 
A

angelicisight

Member
Jun 4, 2023
73
If you can figure out how to make it happen, count me in, as I've been hoping for just that to happen for as long as I can remember.


Pretty much what they have always done. Taxing the people and redistributing it to certain "groups" is exactly what that act is meant to accomplish - influence.
People are more satisfied aligning themselves with destruction and not progress right now. "Let's destroy the past because the past was wrong." Of course that doesn't have the power to succeed. Progress is not as significant a change of power, and so people won't go with this as easily. People need to be fed up with needless destruction before the real progress can continue.
 
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angelicisight

Member
Jun 4, 2023
73
That's, at best, generations away, if ever, IMO.
I don't think so. I think it is a movement away, and we are already positioned for this movement to occur historically. It only takes enough wind to cause things to move once more.
 
locked*n*loaded

locked*n*loaded

Archangel
Apr 15, 2022
7,269
I don't think so. I think it is a movement away, and we are already positioned for this movement to occur historically. It only takes enough wind to cause things to move once more.
I hope you're right, although I, most likely, won't be around long enough to see it, anyway, if it ever does occur. You're certainly more optimistic than I am, though.
 
A

angelicisight

Member
Jun 4, 2023
73
I hope you're right, although I, most likely, won't be around long enough to see it, anyway, if it ever does occur. You're certainly more optimistic than I am, though.
I just go off of my studies. It's not really based on how I feel about things at all. It's just a passive life time of studying history, reasoning through truth, and considering predictions. People never study predicting factors because they do not think art is real. However I think art imitates life. Meaning life follows a story, so predictions can be made about where the narrative is going once it is understood what narrative is most likely true.
 
locked*n*loaded

locked*n*loaded

Archangel
Apr 15, 2022
7,269
I don't know. Life has a lot of tentacles. Could be difficult to assign, or predict, a direction when so many things that influence it are unpredictable and even, possibly, still unknown, or not fully understood. I don't think there's anything wrong with trying, though.
 
Grimpoteuthis

Grimpoteuthis

Your deep sea friend
Jul 1, 2023
85
I could not imagine anything beyond ideology that can bond a group of people together and even institutional religion is just another form of ideology, or a set of beliefs and rituals that proceed to create a false consciousness.

I guess true unity is possible when we realize the existence of ideologies we unconsciously endorse and take as objective truth inside our bubbles of reality. But what exactly will that true reality look like once all ideologies are purged? And how do we agree on a version of natural state that the progress should lead us towards? A movement that encourages people to set their own laws with principles of truth has already existed with the ongoing individualism and free interpretation, unless I misunderstood what you mean, then I apologize.
 
S

suicidalloser

Specialist
Jun 30, 2023
365
Religion is a faux concept—a coping mechanism for those who seek it.
 
A

angelicisight

Member
Jun 4, 2023
73
I could not imagine anything beyond ideology that can bond a group of people together and even institutional religion is just another form of ideology, or a set of beliefs and rituals that proceed to create a false consciousness.

I guess true unity is possible when we realize the existence of ideologies we unconsciously endorse and take as objective truth inside our bubbles of reality. But what exactly will that true reality look like once all ideologies are purged? And how do we agree on a version of natural state that the progress should lead us towards? A movement that encourages people to set their own laws with principles of truth has already existed with the ongoing individualism and free interpretation, unless I misunderstood what you mean, then I apologize.
Yeah it's a misunderstanding. I never claimed the end of tribalism. I just meant the end of institutions holding the power of truth over the masses. Maybe I should have claimed the end of institutional religion, but I like a good clickbait title 😂. I think tribes will still exist and people will still be in power, but there will be no more imbalance of truth. The people in power will not hold information or rely on deception to have their power over the group they have influence with.

The problem with religion is the institution exists because it has claims on truth. It's not just an ideology because a temple holds power over truth that an article cannot. An article can outline an ideology, but it cannot change itself the same way living people can change things. The temple has authority over truth in that it can change it.

The point of ending religion is to claim we no longer need to keep changing what truth means. Education has come to a point where the truth can be fully comprehended to human capabilities. There's no need for a religion to try and progress things.

I think truth can be known through the understanding of sensationalism, but truth can be constructed many different ways with this understanding and many prominent ideologies will form from it. Also just to repeat a past point, religion is a branch of the government. It makes the government human, so once humanity attains this space of a complete education, a final move will bring the government to the level of the people, and that movement expels religion from the ecosystem. There is no longer a gap between the leaders and the people. This last point was the realization of my dream, and it made me write all this in the first place.
 
Grimpoteuthis

Grimpoteuthis

Your deep sea friend
Jul 1, 2023
85
Yeah it's a misunderstanding. I never claimed the end of tribalism. I just meant the end of institutions holding the power of truth over the masses. Maybe I should have claimed the end of institutional religion, but I like a good clickbait title 😂. I think tribes will still exist and people will still be in power, but there will be no more imbalance of truth. The people in power will not hold information or rely on deception to have their power over the group they have influence with.

The problem with religion is the institution exists because it has claims on truth. It's not just an ideology because a temple holds power over truth that an article cannot. An article can outline an ideology, but it cannot change itself the same way living people can change things. The temple has authority over truth in that it can change it.

The point of ending religion is to claim we no longer need to keep changing what truth means. Education has come to a point where the truth can be fully comprehended to human capabilities. There's no need for a religion to try and progress things.

I think truth can be known through the understanding of sensationalism, but truth can be constructed many different ways with this understanding and many prominent ideologies will form from it. Also just to repeat a past point, religion is a branch of the government. It makes the government human, so once humanity attains this space of a complete education, a final move will bring the government to the level of the people, and that movement expels religion from the ecosystem. There is no longer a gap between the leaders and the people. This last point was the realization of my dream, and it made me write all this in the first place.
I think that all ideologies claim authority over truth but the main difference is institutionalized religion has an explicit hierarchy of leaders and followers where leaders manipulate the truth and followers can either follow the suit or leave the institution, but not necessarily the religion, for their version of the truth. Truths are malleable and ideology is the means imo. We are unconscious of the ideologies we hold and therefore the internalized and individualized process of an ideology leading us to the truth we believe in is undetectable.

Bringing the government to the level of people is what democracy or even populism claims to be the goal but fails due to unavoidable corruption. I think religion deifies rather than humanizes the government, but I agree that by glazing the foundation of government with religious ideals, leaders are drawing themselves away from people.

Going back to my first paragraph, I think it is the hierarchy of power inherent to all institutionalized ideologies, but not only religion, that results in the imbalance of truth. Going completely secular does not prevent anyone in power to utilize other means to control truth. Not to say that everything is propaganda, but government is a form of institution with distinct hierarchy who funded or at least influenced the education we have received. I am wondering if a complete education for the people and the removal of religion will indeed lead to the removal of power over truth.
 
A

angelicisight

Member
Jun 4, 2023
73
I think that all ideologies claim authority over truth but the main difference is institutionalized religion has an explicit hierarchy of leaders and followers where leaders manipulate the truth and followers can either follow the suit or leave the institution, but not necessarily the religion, for their version of the truth. Truths are malleable and ideology is the means imo. We are unconscious of the ideologies we hold and therefore the internalized and individualized process of an ideology leading us to the truth we believe in is undetectable.

Bringing the government to the level of people is what democracy or even populism claims to be the goal but fails due to unavoidable corruption. I think religion deifies rather than humanizes the government, but I agree that by glazing the foundation of government with religious ideals, leaders are drawing themselves away from people.

Going back to my first paragraph, I think it is the hierarchy of power inherent to all institutionalized ideologies, but not only religion, that results in the imbalance of truth. Going completely secular does not prevent anyone in power to utilize other means to control truth. Not to say that everything is propaganda, but government is a form of institution with distinct hierarchy who funded or at least influenced the education we have received. I am wondering if a complete education for the people and the removal of religion will indeed lead to the removal of power over truth.
No you just aren't getting the difference between living people and written word.
 

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