Discussion The Controversy of the Right To Die - my thoughts :)

[primadonna_]

I've always found this an interesting topic. I've always known that there will always be people suffering out there no matter what, and I assume everyone else does too. Which makes me question why the majority of people do not support the right to die, if there will always be suffering which people will be forced to live through.. and i've always wondered, if you're just going to suffer your whole life, why live?
The opposing side argues that life is not something to be drawn based on circumstances, intentional death undermines the principle that killing people is always wrong, and that once society accepts that some lives can be ended deliberately, it weakens the universal respect for life. But when I ask people in real life about this, it's always "what about everybody else?" "People will miss you" or "ctb is a permanent solution to temporary problems" but what if your problem isn't temporary? Yeah, what about everybody else?
It frustrates me that the decision of ctb is always framed as selfish, but other people aren't the ones suffering. And some people's problems are not temporary, poverty, incurable mental illness, chronic abuse that will eventually follow you for the rest of your life. And yes, there is a lot of suffering that can be addressed without ending one's life, such as disability support services, and mental health treatment. But what if none of that works? What if you can't afford it? There are some things that cannot be fixed and I find a lot of people do not want to believe that. Then there is the matter of autonomy; your body is yours to do as you please, not for others, doctors or the state to decide what to do with. I think everyone can agree that forcing someone to go through unbearable mental or physical pain and denying them relief is wrong. And if it's a matter of money that the government makes from treating sick people who will never recover, then they would save a lot more money because they wouldn't have to care of the suffering people on the streets who are facing a problem that will tear them down for the rest of their lives? I'm not say thing that anyone in any of these positions should be automatically put down, i'm saying that they should be allowed a choice if they believe that going on would cause more pain then simply letting go.
It's also pretty obvious assisted ctb is obviously much better than having to do it all on your own. Sparing families the trauma of having to find their loved ones hanging from the ceiling or unconscious on the floor, and instead provide the suffering an easy, less traumatic way to go, which would be better for everyone in the long term.

Just my thoughts before I decide to let go myself. Have a great day and if you're on here for the same reason everyone else is, I hope it's painless.

 

[Infinitespace_]

i think its a disgrace that old people have to just wait for natural death to occur while they lose everything their memory, their minds, bodily functions and somehow they call this life? everyone has a right to live and die it is your birth right i think it would be better if a person decided his own death and one month before he leaves he could welcome all his friends and family and celebrate and people could say their goodbyes and he/she can die in their sleep...

 

[qwert3948]

i think it's very hard to have this discussion when so many people are this way because of society and capitalism. a person having their right to die is ideal, but we don't live in an ideal world

 

[FuneralCry]

In this existence so dreadful, terrible and torturous where there is no limit as to how much agony one can feel the right to die needs to be a human right and the fact that humans have made it into a crime instead is just horrific, there's just so much terrible extreme cruelty in how the suffering and torture of existing is seen as to force and prolong no matter what.

I just see so much evil in anti-suicide, all it ever does is cause harm and torture those who suffer in this reality, all I need is the option to cease existing painlessly, in this reality where there is all this endless suffering and torture non-existence is just all that's positive for me, I just want to erase this existence I just always saw as a mistake, I always suffer so unbearably from being trapped in this existence that only ever caused me to suffer.

 

[urgent]

I've always found this an interesting topic. I've always known that there will always be people suffering out there no matter what, and I assume everyone else does too. Which makes me question why the majority of people do not support the right to die, if there will always be suffering which people will be forced to live through.. and i've always wondered, if you're just going to suffer your whole life, why live?
The opposing side argues that life is not something to be drawn based on circumstances, intentional death undermines the principle that killing people is always wrong, and that once society accepts that some lives can be ended deliberately, it weakens the universal respect for life. But when I ask people in real life about this, it's always "what about everybody else?" "People will miss you" or "ctb is a permanent solution to temporary problems" but what if your problem isn't temporary? Yeah, what about everybody else?
It frustrates me that the decision of ctb is always framed as selfish, but other people aren't the ones suffering. And some people's problems are not temporary, poverty, incurable mental illness, chronic abuse that will eventually follow you for the rest of your life. And yes, there is a lot of suffering that can be addressed without ending one's life, such as disability support services, and mental health treatment. But what if none of that works? What if you can't afford it? There are some things that cannot be fixed and I find a lot of people do not want to believe that. Then there is the matter of autonomy; your body is yours to do as you please, not for others, doctors or the state to decide what to do with. I think everyone can agree that forcing someone to go through unbearable mental or physical pain and denying them relief is wrong. And if it's a matter of money that the government makes from treating sick people who will never recover, then they would save a lot more money because they wouldn't have to care of the suffering people on the streets who are facing a problem that will tear them down for the rest of their lives? I'm not say thing that anyone in any of these positions should be automatically put down, i'm saying that they should be allowed a choice if they believe that going on would cause more pain then simply letting go.
It's also pretty obvious assisted ctb is obviously much better than having to do it all on your own. Sparing families the trauma of having to find their loved ones hanging from the ceiling or unconscious on the floor, and instead provide the suffering an easy, less traumatic way to go, which would be better for everyone in the long term.

Just my thoughts before I decide to let go myself. Have a great day and if you're on here for the same reason everyone else is, I hope it's painless.

I agree. I should have had the right to die painlessly with medication 3 years ago when my quality of life got so bad and pain unbearable.Im a good person suffering as if I was in hell for torturous punishment.

 

[Always-in-trouble]

The opposing side themselves are suffering in some sort of way. They can just wipe a clean gloss over the window suffering away with the good experiences the have every time, until the grimy reality seeps back over time and repeat.

 

[TwoSoulsLiveInMe]

I honestly think a lot of it comes down to willful ignorance. The "majority" don't understand the want for a Right to Die, and they can't empathize with circumstances they haven't personally experienced. But instead of accepting that everybody is different, they claim moral superiority because of the social taboo and everyone's innate SI.
But they can absolutely empathize with the people that are "left behind" after someone's ctb. They can definitely empathize with the selfish want to prolong a loved one's suffering for some perceived happy ending. Without ever lifting a finger to help said person, because they're so obsessed with the idea that said person can get better, if they just try hard enough.

 

[seasonsdied]

Right to die is frowned upon but it is implied. No matter how much society frowns upon it, they don't have much say if a person decides to ctb against the general consensus that its wRoNg.
Whereas the right to live has had to be established and protected over generations otherwise those in power would abuse everyone. There are enough examples in history regarding slavery and people being treated as cattle.
One other minor issue with treating ctb as acceptable is that crimes will be disguised as attempts by oneself and may lead to some problems. However, none of this should lead to the removal of resources from society that can lead to death with dignity. If a person can go through a legal and dignified way to end their life then it solves a great deal of societies problems as well.

 

[Sadbanana]

I personally think most people just lack the courage to even entertain these thoughts. Death is scary to them and the idea that someone could have such a bad life, that they would willingly die is even scarier. So they pretend it doesn't exist and want people like us to stop being "edgy".

 

[madwoman]

I wish I could have assisted suicide it would cause a lot of less stress for me, my loved ones, and all the professional people that have to deal with me after. And then to be able to get proper closure and end of life care and a painless method that would be so ideal. Quality of life over quantity.

I wish I could have assisted suicide it would cause a lot of less stress for me, my loved ones, and all the professional people that have to deal with me after. And then to be able to get proper closure and end of life care and a painless method that would be so ideal. Quality of life over quantity.

@Sadbanana I love your username (random but bananas are my fave fruit!)

 

[rainatthebusstop]

Honestly I think the right to die should be freely given and they should hand out N at the pharmacy. Or built the Lethal Chamber from the King in Yellow (also known as the Suicide Booth from Futurama) for the people that need it.

I personally think most people just lack the courage to even entertain these thoughts. Death is scary to them and the idea that someone could have such a bad life, that they would willingly die is even scarier. So they pretend it doesn't exist and want people like us to stop being "edgy".

Yep. I heard the word "attention whore" in regards to suicide so often it's insane. Like if it was up to me you wouldn't pay attention to the idea of me dying, you would just note it and shrug.

I've always found this an interesting topic. I've always known that there will always be people suffering out there no matter what, and I assume everyone else does too. Which makes me question why the majority of people do not support the right to die, if there will always be suffering which people will be forced to live through.. and i've always wondered, if you're just going to suffer your whole life, why live?

"Oh but think of the joys of living, and the friend, and the things you can do while you're alive" As if the joys of living aren't just there as punctuation for your suffering. As if Hope isn't famously the worst monster from Pandoras box-

But when I ask people in real life about this, it's always "what about everybody else?" "People will miss you"

Remember: Prolonging someone else's suffering for your own benefit isn't selfish, it's called being a good person (/sarc)
Maybe if people where less afraid of dying or death and we as a society treated it as a part of life, people could finally be put down in peace

"ctb is a permanent solution to temporary problems"

That's such a dumb phrase. Every problem is temporary in the grand scheme of things. Also what's wrong with wanting something fixed permanently?

And yes, there is a lot of suffering that can be addressed without ending one's life, such as disability support services, and mental health treatment. But what if none of that works? What if you can't afford it?

What if it sucks? What if we build a whole medical field on the idea of helping people who are suffering but all the professionals knew was verbal abuse, wild assumptions, quote guy wildly missproven, give out meds, pretend to not know what you got your fucking uni degree for and report you to the cops?
Oh wait we did that

Then there is the matter of autonomy; your body is yours to do as you please, not for others, doctors or the state to decide what to do with. I think everyone can agree that forcing someone to go through unbearable mental or physical pain and denying them relief is wrong. And if it's a matter of money that the government makes from treating sick people who will never recover, then they would save a lot more money because they wouldn't have to care of the suffering people on the streets who are facing a problem that will tear them down for the rest of their lives? I'm not say thing that anyone in any of these positions should be automatically put down, i'm saying that they should be allowed a choice if they believe that going on would cause more pain then simply letting go.

Honestly the way chronically ill people are treated should disgust everyone. Imagine having constant pain and on top of being denied a body that feels comfort, people also strip you of autonomy or your say in the matter.

It's also pretty obvious assisted ctb is obviously much better than having to do it all on your own. Sparing families the trauma of having to find their loved ones hanging from the ceiling or unconscious on the floor, and instead provide the suffering an easy, less traumatic way to go, which would be better for everyone in the long term.

Just my thoughts before I decide to let go myself. Have a great day and if you're on here for the same reason everyone else is, I hope it's painless.

Thank you, and I hope your way out of suffering is painless too

 

[RiftbornVeil]

I personally think most people just lack the courage to even entertain these thoughts. Death is scary to them and the idea that someone could have such a bad life, that they would willingly die is even scarier. So they pretend it doesn't exist and want people like us to stop being "edgy".

I would agree with this. Meaningful discourse on such a taboo subject won't happen until people are able to consider it rationally and logically. Taking a step back means realizing and understanding that everyone should have a choice. Death itself is no less important than birth, and whereas birth is openly discussed and accepted, death hasn't been, yet.

 

[ShadowOfASelf]

The opposing side argues that life is not something to be drawn based on circumstances, intentional death undermines the principle that killing people is always wrong, and that once society accepts that some lives can be ended deliberately, it weakens the universal respect for life.

*looks around the world* what universal respect for life? We let people die EVERY DAY, from hunger, poverty, diseases they can't afford to treat or medication they can't afford to pay for, nutrition they can't afford to get, basic services that don't get provided for them. We (I'm using the societal "we" not specifically you and me or anybody else on this forum) wage wars that kill hundreds and thousands of people, we support countries that execute people, take people's homes, put people in camps. We refuse to adequately house and feed people, families, kids. We imprison millions for relatively minor offenses, taking away their freedom and essentially their lives, and then making it hard for them to get their lives back when they're freed.

People die every day. And a lot of people are dying right in front of the same people who claim to care about all life, and they look away. If you want to live but your circumstances are such that you can't, so many of our societies tell you TOO BAD. If you want to die, then everybody tries everything to make sure you can't. We live in an upside down world.

 

[MicahBell]

*looks around the world* what universal respect for life? We let people die EVERY DAY, from hunger, poverty, diseases they can't afford to treat or medication they can't afford to pay for, nutrition they can't afford to get, basic services that don't get provided for them. We (I'm using the societal "we" not specifically you and me or anybody else on this forum) wage wars that kill hundreds and thousands of people, we support countries that execute people, take people's homes, put people in camps. We refuse to adequately house and feed people, families, kids. We imprison millions for relatively minor offenses, taking away their freedom and essentially their lives, and then making it hard for them to get their lives back when they're freed.

under capitalism life is seen a privilege and not a right since the upper class basically own you. "universal respect for life" under capitalism just means the rich not killing people directly, so when they kill themselves they can wipe their hands and go "its a personal fault, not a fault of the system, see how they killed themself and not us?"

 

[TAW122]

I've always found this an interesting topic. I've always known that there will always be people suffering out there no matter what, and I assume everyone else does too. Which makes me question why the majority of people do not support the right to die, if there will always be suffering which people will be forced to live through.. and i've always wondered, if you're just going to suffer your whole life, why live?
The opposing side argues that life is not something to be drawn based on circumstances, intentional death undermines the principle that killing people is always wrong, and that once society accepts that some lives can be ended deliberately, it weakens the universal respect for life. But when I ask people in real life about this, it's always "what about everybody else?" "People will miss you" or "ctb is a permanent solution to temporary problems" but what if your problem isn't temporary? Yeah, what about everybody else?
It frustrates me that the decision of ctb is always framed as selfish, but other people aren't the ones suffering. And some people's problems are not temporary, poverty, incurable mental illness, chronic abuse that will eventually follow you for the rest of your life. And yes, there is a lot of suffering that can be addressed without ending one's life, such as disability support services, and mental health treatment. But what if none of that works? What if you can't afford it? There are some things that cannot be fixed and I find a lot of people do not want to believe that. Then there is the matter of autonomy; your body is yours to do as you please, not for others, doctors or the state to decide what to do with. I think everyone can agree that forcing someone to go through unbearable mental or physical pain and denying them relief is wrong. And if it's a matter of money that the government makes from treating sick people who will never recover, then they would save a lot more money because they wouldn't have to care of the suffering people on the streets who are facing a problem that will tear them down for the rest of their lives? I'm not say thing that anyone in any of these positions should be automatically put down, i'm saying that they should be allowed a choice if they believe that going on would cause more pain then simply letting go.
It's also pretty obvious assisted ctb is obviously much better than having to do it all on your own. Sparing families the trauma of having to find their loved ones hanging from the ceiling or unconscious on the floor, and instead provide the suffering an easy, less traumatic way to go, which would be better for everyone in the long term.

Just my thoughts before I decide to let go myself. Have a great day and if you're on here for the same reason everyone else is, I hope it's painless.

Great post, and I really agree with all your points. I feel like it's almost always about other people, and to answer your question (from my perspective and based on my knowledge), I wondered the same question to, and my answer would be that people hate the idea of CTB, and are harmed at the knowledge of someone who CTB'd, rather than lack thereof. By this, I mean there are people who died who they don't know about, and I suppose ignorance is bliss since what they don't know can't harm them.

For example, suppose Person A, who lives in the USA or some other first world nation, has no knowledge or only vaguely knows that there are people (suppose 'B') in third world countries, maybe a really poor country in Southeast Asia or in the continent of Africa, living in impoverished conditions, basic needs are a problem, and much more. Then said person died and nobody outside of maybe the closest people to said person in said third world country knows about his/her death, then 'A' would not have felt bad or been affected due to lack of knowledge specifically, even if 'A' knew that there are people who die everyday in other corners of this world. But if A knew that 'B' died, then it would affect A in some way rather than just distant knowledge or so that there are people out there who do die every single day. This is even more profound if 'B' has CTB'd. In fact, if B had CTB'd and A had no knowledge of B CTB'd, then regardless of whether B CTB'd or not, A wouldn't be bothered. Therefore, once again, it mostly boils down to the knowledge of CTB that bothers people and they push towards dissuading and CTB prevention campaigns and movements to curb the act rather than accepting reality.

I'm sure my example there are formal terms or terminology to describe it, but I am not a sociologist, anthropologist, nor psychologist, so I wouldn't know the terms, but at least from my observation and logic with critical thinking, I am able to put together and make sense of the situation to some degree. Also, there are more things I could say about it, but that would be for another thread altogether.

Right to die is frowned upon but it is implied. No matter how much society frowns upon it, they don't have much say if a person decides to ctb against the general consensus that its wRoNg.
Whereas the right to live has had to be established and protected over generations otherwise those in power would abuse everyone. There are enough examples in history regarding slavery and people being treated as cattle.
One other minor issue with treating ctb as acceptable is that crimes will be disguised as attempts by oneself and may lead to some problems. However, none of this should lead to the removal of resources from society that can lead to death with dignity. If a person can go through a legal and dignified way to end their life then it solves a great deal of societies problems as well.

This is an interesting take and I think it may be true that it is implied but unspoken (nobody openly admits or says it (the quiet part) out loud, yet innately acknowledges it I think..), I may slightly disagree that people don't have much say if a person decides to CTB because if the person who chose an ineffective method (whether due to their circumstances or not), failed the attempt, or been caught before they could successfully CTB, then it very well would mean that CTB is not only risky, difficult, but also more prone to failure at many different points. Additionally, people who are physically disabled or lack the physical capability to carry out the method would be stuck too, barring having assistance (where legal of course) to aid the person wanting to die to be able to successfully die.

The point regarding the right to live is interesting the way you framed it. When you state it has to be established and protected, perhaps you are referring to keeping those in power in check with checks and balances through legal systems or policies correct?

Finally, yes, the last point is true too and while it is not commonly stated (at least not that I've seen), it is possible that bad actors will abuse the system if CTB was just treated without any (reasonable) guardrails and checks to ensure that it is done so without consent or against the person's wishes. But yes, some bad actors (which for anything and everything) will always exist, but just to prevent maybe 1 (or a handful) bad actor at the cost of heavily restricting and continually barring CTB as an valid option, hurts the ones who really suffer in the long term, causing them to take matters into their own hands (messy attempts that disturb the public, collateral damage from CTB attempts and the aftermath, etc.).