Discussion The collapse and potential hope

[WishfulNeanderthal]

Our society is currently facing a collapse from multiple points, from economical to enviromental. But also a mental health crisis mixed in with a brithrate crisis (because who would have known that a person that is in pain doesnt want to create another life?)

But I do believe there is a solution to this through AI, yes there will be companies that use this technology for greed and malice. But now that this technology is out, we will soon hopefully have access to a digital mind that can see the full picture without any biological influences such as anxiety, anger or greed. I do genuinely believe that this might be our ticket to alot of things if we get enough time for it to develop.

I also see some hope in the mental health crisis aspect of this when it comes to both psychadelics and AI, now I want to preface this by saying that psychadelics is not for everyone and I do not condone using them unless you are 100% knowing what you are doing and dont have any diagnosis that can interfer with it.

Previous studies (Linked below) has shown that some of these substances has resulted in an improved mood, and is a potential treatment for depression, anxiety and SI. However there also risks to it obviously, where a psychadelic experience can harm an individual due to previous diagnosis or a proneness to psychosis.

So my question is for all of you; what do you think about this? Is there hope in this or not? If so, why?

Sources:

1. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-021-06027-y (Psychedelics for the treatment of depression, anxiety, and existential distress in patients with a terminal illness: a systematic review)
2. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032722011818 (Psychedelic therapy for depressive symptoms: A systematic review and meta-analysis)
3. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2045125320950567 (The therapeutic potential of microdosing psychedelics in depression)

 

[EvisceratedJester]

A lot of the modern research on psychedelics and their potential for treating mental illnesses is still pretty new and psychedelics can also worsen symptoms in some individuals, after a bad trip. That's not getting into the risk of things, like thought loops, which can worsen when on psychedelics. You also have cases of people who become traumatized and develop PTSD due to tripping and/or those who develop HPPD because of using them. Psychedelics, while helpful, are not a miracle solution to the mental health crisis and can actually worsen the mental health of some, including those without a diagnosis or family history of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or other psychotic psychiatric conditions. There are still plenty of cases of people who use psychedelics and who see no improvement in their symptoms.

Also, AI isn't the solution. AI suffers from the issue of being created by humans, thus it tends to reflect a lot of the biases that its creators have, along with the biases that might be reflected through the material used to train it. AI doesn't see the full picture, it just provides you with another biased picture just like a human would.

 

[WishfulNeanderthal]

Good points!

A lot of the modern research on psychedelics and their potential for treating mental illnesses is still pretty new and psychedelics can also worsen symptoms in some individuals, after a bad trip. That's not getting into the risk of things, like thought loops, which can worsen when on psychedelics. You also have cases of people who become traumatized and develop PTSD due to tripping and/or those who develop HPPD because of using them. Psychedelics, while helpful, are not a miracle solution to the mental health crisis and can actually worsen the mental health of some, including those without a diagnosis or family history of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or other psychotic psychiatric conditions. There are still plenty of cases of people who use psychedelics and who see no improvement in their symptoms.

Also, AI isn't the solution. AI suffers from the issue of being created by humans, thus it tends to reflect a lot of the biases that its creators have, along with the biases that might be reflected through the material used to train it. AI doesn't see the full picture, it just provides you with another biased picture just like a human would.

Those risks are for sure something that could harm someone depending on individual factors, I do believe that psychedelics aren't a miracle solution. But right now our options are pretty slim when it comes to mental health, different kinds of therapy + a lithany of medication that has so many factors that its hard to count (Combining different medicines, individual biology, etc) and I am pretty hopeful that more research will be done into psychedelics (and hopefully a way to remove those risks you mentioned). I think it's a step forward in the right direction.

On the point of AI, i do agree that there will always be a bias, but what i meant by "seeing the full picture" is that individuals perception and memory are prone to not always be the most trustworthy thing, making it harder for them to understand large-scale complex problems that would take years to understand, while AI can (and probably will) understand it on some level. Hopefully, soon enough, there will be a way to cut away the bias from AI (although that might be difficult since every interaction we and its creators have is biased).

I do think that AI in the hands of the right people might be put to good use instead of greed, misinformation and manipulation, instead focused on solving problems that otherwise would take a large scale of capable people. But just like the psychedelics, it isnt a miracle pill but i'd say its our best shot on making it through a societal collapse.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Good points!


Those risks are for sure something that could harm someone depending on individual factors, I do believe that psychedelics aren't a miracle solution. But right now our options are pretty slim when it comes to mental health, different kinds of therapy + a lithany of medication that has so many factors that its hard to count (Combining different medicines, individual biology, etc) and I am pretty hopeful that more research will be done into psychedelics (and hopefully a way to remove those risks you mentioned). I think it's a step forward in the right direction.

On the point of AI, i do agree that there will always be a bias, but what i meant by "seeing the full picture" is that individuals perception and memory are prone to not always be the most trustworthy thing, making it harder for them to understand large-scale complex problems that would take years to understand, while AI can (and probably will) understand it on some level. Hopefully, soon enough, there will be a way to cut away the bias from AI (although that might be difficult since every interaction we and its creators have is biased).

I do think that AI in the hands of the right people might be put to good use instead of greed, misinformation and manipulation, instead focused on solving problems that otherwise would take a large scale of capable people. But just like the psychedelics, it isnt a miracle pill but i'd say its our best shot on making it through a societal collapse.

There are other psychiatric treatments out there beyond just psychotherapy and psychiatric medications, such as TMS or VNS. Also, psychedelics suffer from the same issue that you brought up in regard to psychiatric meds. How people react to psychedelics varies a lot and it's not uncommon for many to not be able to use them due to them causing them distress. The issues aren't the meds themselves but rather the fact that everyone is different, thus the effects of psychiatric or psychoactive drugs will differ from person to person.

AI is still something that is both created by humans and, depending on what we are talking about, will likely be trained on research done by us. As a result, in some capacity, what AI produces will still reflect many of the flaws. AI won't do shit to keep society from collapsing because it doesn't even address the issues going into why it collapsing in the first place. You are basically looking to put a band-aid on a large infected wound with a piece of bone sticking out of it.

 

[WishfulNeanderthal]

There are other psychiatric treatments out there beyond just psychotherapy and psychiatric medications, such as TMS or VNS. Also, psychedelics suffer from the same issue that you brought up in regard to psychiatric meds. How people react to psychedelics varies a lot and it's not uncommon for many to not be able to use them due to them causing them distress. The issues aren't the meds themselves but rather the fact that everyone is different, thus the effects of psychiatric or psychoactive drugs will differ from person to person.

AI is still something that is both created by humans and, depending on what we are talking about, will likely be trained on research done by us. As a result, in some capacity, what AI produces will still reflect many of the flaws. AI won't do shit to keep society from collapsing because it doesn't even address the issues going into why it collapsing in the first place. You are basically looking to put a band-aid on a large infected wound with a piece of bone sticking out of it.

I agree on your point regarding psychiatric treatment and that it differs wildly person to person, but i have to disagree with you regarding AI. I do genuinely believe that it can solve things if put into the right hand, since its such a powerful tool that we have never had access to before. But you are right on that it wont adress the issues right now, mostly because every mainstream AI is controlled by some kinda company with motives.