Discussion The church vs suicide

[Centerism]

Hey family,

Let's discuss Christianity's view on suicide. We all know the appropriate essence that condemns suicide as an act against the commandment "thou shalt not kill." Alright, we are seen as sinners due to the fact that we're fighting against the will of god. Is it true though that we are going against gods will? Are we truly railing against mainstream religion? Or are we simply living in the idea that we're predestined to die... by our own hands...

St. Augustine wrote a book in the fifth century called "the city if god." In this book was the first message spreading the idea that suicide was seen as an act against gods will, moreover the idea that suicidal ideation and the act of controlling ones mortality, we were seen as sinners who were going against the commandment "thou shalt not kill."

Not only were st Augustine's ideals coming from what he called the holy book. He also took from Plato's book "phaedo." A book where Plato discusses the idea that the soul is immortal. And the idea of an afterlife. How this pertains to suicide I couldn't begin to tell you. St Augustine thought it could play a part in condemning the practice of suicide though.

The church and state became a hindrance to the moral value of self gratification through suicide. Through the years suicide became an ecclesiastical crime. Usually people who attempted suicide were excommunicated. And those who succeeded in killing themselves were denied a "Christian burial." Eventually people who were suicidal were said to have committed a sin that one could not repent of.

Psalm 139:8, "if I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there." Take it how you will. It holds the value, in protestant views, that we're all going to be taken care of in the afterlife. Even if we do commit a sin.

If we delve into neopagan religions we discover a whole different view in suicide. Although taking of ones life can be considered an act against the sanctity of life. It is also seen as almost romantic in nature. Where the idea that we are reincarnated, so taking of ones life is like being reborn. Although the belief is once you're reborn you will still suffer the same ailments until you learn a way to cope.

Another view on suicide comes from the Indian religion "jainism." There is a idea that suicide is an ultimate form of "himsa" or violence and cannot be permitted. Now the religion also has a form of self administered death that is considered the ultimate form of death. "Sallekhana" is a form of contentment in the jainism views. It is an act of sacrifice by simply starving yourself to death. This isn't viewed as a suicidal act, but more of one out of reverence.

Now that we have a general idea of what goes on in the religious minds of today we are curious to know, "is God real?" Or are we condemned to a viral fate of darkness. Blackness. Nothingness?

Let's live with the idea that people like "primitive Baptists" can put constraints on our pro-choice model. People make me sick talking about "god hates you," "pray for more dead soldiers." That shit is sickening. I'm gay and I take my sexuality very seriously. When someone tells me I'm going to hell because I was born different?
These people have a website called "godhatesfags.com." If you don't know who these people are just Google "Westboro Baptist church." You'll be shocked.

So are we doomed to be tortured in this life and the next? I surely hope not. So let's see what we all think on the topic of church vs suicide. Are we doomed? Are we truly sinners? Is there really a god? What have we done wrong to be tortured like this?

Throw it up in the air guys.

I Love y'all. You're a perfect addition to my family. Thank you for being you. Continue smiling, knowing you have control. That nobody needs to hurt you again. You're perfect here amongst like minded people.

 

[Wayfaerer]

To be honest, it's all nothing but superstitious nonsense to me.

 

[Centerism]

To be honest, it's all nothing but superstitious nonsense to me.

I like that. "Superstitious nonsense"
Good way to put it

 

[Dawn0071111]

Its all fear based. In the end we have to be willing to make that leap.... to end the pain....

 

[KiraComplex]

I feel like there is an afterlife. Maybe not whats shown on books, but maybe there is something after death

 

[Stan]

I think a great example of this comes from a British sci-fi comedy programme called Red Dwarf where the writers explored this subject. The programmed the robots in believing Silicon Heaven to keep them in line.

Red Dwarf - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Centerism]

I feel like there is an afterlife. Maybe not whats shown on books, but maybe there is something after death

I agree with you. I'm a wiccan and we believe in a beautiful afterlife. No matter what you do, you will end up there. And that afterlife leads to eventual reincarnation. Whether it be a plant, a bug, an animal, or a human. When you die you feed mother earth and in return she places your essence into another living being. So I agree there is an afterlife. Maybe not the one I believe in, but in one shape or form you will end up somewhere. Hopefully it is a place of love and peace. Or maybe it's just a place of st eternal darkness. Who knows?

 

[a.h]

Hey family,

Let's discuss Christianity's view on suicide. We all know the appropriate essence that condemns suicide as an act against the commandment "thou shalt not kill." Alright, we are seen as sinners due to the fact that we're fighting against the will of god. Is it true though that we are going against gods will? Are we truly railing against mainstream religion? Or are we simply living in the idea that we're predestined to die... by our own hands...

St. Augustine wrote a book in the fifth century called "the city if god." In this book was the first message spreading the idea that suicide was seen as an act against gods will, moreover the idea that suicidal ideation and the act of controlling ones mortality, we were seen as sinners who were going against the commandment "thou shalt not kill."

Not only were st Augustine's ideals coming from what he called the holy book. He also took from Plato's book "phaedo." A book where Plato discusses the idea that the soul is immortal. And the idea of an afterlife. How this pertains to suicide I couldn't begin to tell you. St Augustine thought it could play a part in condemning the practice of suicide though.

The church and state became a hindrance to the moral value of self gratification through suicide. Through the years suicide became an ecclesiastical crime. Usually people who attempted suicide were excommunicated. And those who succeeded in killing themselves were denied a "Christian burial." Eventually people who were suicidal were said to have committed a sin that one could not repent of.

Psalm 139:8, "if I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there." Take it how you will. It holds the value, in protestant views, that we're all going to be taken care of in the afterlife. Even if we do commit a sin.

If we delve into neopagan religions we discover a whole different view in suicide. Although taking of ones life can be considered an act against the sanctity of life. It is also seen as almost romantic in nature. Where the idea that we are reincarnated, so taking of ones life is like being reborn. Although the belief is once you're reborn you will still suffer the same ailments until you learn a way to cope.

Another view on suicide comes from the Indian religion "jainism." There is a idea that suicide is an ultimate form of "himsa" or violence and cannot be permitted. Now the religion also has a form of self administered death that is considered the ultimate form of death. "Sallekhana" is a form of contentment in the jainism views. It is an act of sacrifice by simply starving yourself to death. This isn't viewed as a suicidal act, but more of one out of reverence.

Now that we have a general idea of what goes on in the religious minds of today we are curious to know, "is God real?" Or are we condemned to a viral fate of darkness. Blackness. Nothingness?

Let's live with the idea that people like "primitive Baptists" can put constraints on our pro-choice model. People make me sick talking about "god hates you," "pray for more dead soldiers." That shit is sickening. I'm gay and I take my sexuality very seriously. When someone tells me I'm going to hell because I was born View attachment 15875different? View attachment 15874
These people have a website called "godhatesfags.com." If you don't know who these people are just Google "Westboro Baptist church." You'll be shocked.

So are we doomed to be tortured in this life and the next? I surely hope not. So let's see what we all think on the topic of church vs suicide. Are we doomed? Are we truly sinners? Is there really a god? What have we done wrong to be tortured like this?

Throw it up in the air guys.

I Love y'all. You're a perfect addition to my family. Thank you for being you. Continu

Hey family,

Let's discuss Christianity's view on suicide. We all know the appropriate essence that condemns suicide as an act against the commandment "thou shalt not kill." Alright, we are seen as sinners due to the fact that we're fighting against the will of god. Is it true though that we are going against gods will? Are we truly railing against mainstream religion? Or are we simply living in the idea that we're predestined to die... by our own hands...

St. Augustine wrote a book in the fifth century called "the city if god." In this book was the first message spreading the idea that suicide was seen as an act against gods will, moreover the idea that suicidal ideation and the act of controlling ones mortality, we were seen as sinners who were going against the commandment "thou shalt not kill."

Not only were st Augustine's ideals coming from what he called the holy book. He also took from Plato's book "phaedo." A book where Plato discusses the idea that the soul is immortal. And the idea of an afterlife. How this pertains to suicide I couldn't begin to tell you. St Augustine thought it could play a part in condemning the practice of suicide though.

The church and state became a hindrance to the moral value of self gratification through suicide. Through the years suicide became an ecclesiastical crime. Usually people who attempted suicide were excommunicated. And those who succeeded in killing themselves were denied a "Christian burial." Eventually people who were suicidal were said to have committed a sin that one could not repent of.

Psalm 139:8, "if I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there." Take it how you will. It holds the value, in protestant views, that we're all going to be taken care of in the afterlife. Even if we do commit a sin.

If we delve into neopagan religions we discover a whole different view in suicide. Although taking of ones life can be considered an act against the sanctity of life. It is also seen as almost romantic in nature. Where the idea that we are reincarnated, so taking of ones life is like being reborn. Although the belief is once you're reborn you will still suffer the same ailments until you learn a way to cope.

Another view on suicide comes from the Indian religion "jainism." There is a idea that suicide is an ultimate form of "himsa" or violence and cannot be permitted. Now the religion also has a form of self administered death that is considered the ultimate form of death. "Sallekhana" is a form of contentment in the jainism views. It is an act of sacrifice by simply starving yourself to death. This isn't viewed as a suicidal act, but more of one out of reverence.

Now that we have a general idea of what goes on in the religious minds of today we are curious to know, "is God real?" Or are we condemned to a viral fate of darkness. Blackness. Nothingness?

Let's live with the idea that people like "primitive Baptists" can put constraints on our pro-choice model. People make me sick talking about "god hates you," "pray for more dead soldiers." That shit is sickening. I'm gay and I take my sexuality very seriously. When someone tells me I'm going to hell because I was born View attachment 15875different? View attachment 15874
These people have a website called "godhatesfags.com." If you don't know who these people are just Google "Westboro Baptist church." You'll be shocked.

So are we doomed to be tortured in this life and the next? I surely hope not. So let's see what we all think on the topic of church vs suicide. Are we doomed? Are we truly sinners? Is there really a god? What have we done wrong to be tortured like this?

Throw it up in the air guys.

I Love y'all. You're a perfect addition to my family. Thank you for being you. Continue smiling, knowing you have control. That nobody needs to hurt you again. You're perfect here amongst like minded people.

e smiling, knowing you have control. That nobody needs to hurt you again. You're perf

Hey family,

Let's discuss Christianity's view on suicide. We all know the appropriate essence that condemns suicide as an act against the commandment "thou shalt not kill." Alright, we are seen as sinners due to the fact that we're fighting against the will of god. Is it true though that we are going against gods will? Are we truly railing against mainstream religion? Or are we simply living in the idea that we're predestined to die... by our own hands...

St. Augustine wrote a book in the fifth century called "the city if god." In this book was the first message spreading the idea that suicide was seen as an act against gods will, moreover the idea that suicidal ideation and the act of controlling ones mortality, we were seen as sinners who were going against the commandment "thou shalt not kill."

Not only were st Augustine's ideals coming from what he called the holy book. He also took from Plato's book "phaedo." A book where Plato discusses the idea that the soul is immortal. And the idea of an afterlife. How this pertains to suicide I couldn't begin to tell you. St Augustine thought it could play a part in condemning the practice of suicide though.

The church and state became a hindrance to the moral value of self gratification through suicide. Through the years suicide became an ecclesiastical crime. Usually people who attempted suicide were excommunicated. And those who succeeded in killing themselves were denied a "Christian burial." Eventually people who were suicidal were said to have committed a sin that one could not repent of.

Psalm 139:8, "if I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there." Take it how you will. It holds the value, in protestant views, that we're all going to be taken care of in the afterlife. Even if we do commit a sin.

If we delve into neopagan religions we discover a whole different view in suicide. Although taking of ones life can be considered an act against the sanctity of life. It is also seen as almost romantic in nature. Where the idea that we are reincarnated, so taking of ones life is like being reborn. Although the belief is once you're reborn you will still suffer the same ailments until you learn a way to cope.

Another view on suicide comes from the Indian religion "jainism." There is a idea that suicide is an ultimate form of "himsa" or violence and cannot be permitted. Now the religion also has a form of self administered death that is considered the ultimate form of death. "Sallekhana" is a form of contentment in the jainism views. It is an act of sacrifice by simply starving yourself to death. This isn't viewed as a suicidal act, but more of one out of reverence.

Now that we have a general idea of what goes on in the religious minds of today we are curious to know, "is God real?" Or are we condemned to a viral fate of darkness. Blackness. Nothingness?

Let's live with the idea that people like "primitive Baptists" can put constraints on our pro-choice model. People make me sick talking about "god hates you," "pray for more dead soldiers." That shit is sickening. I'm gay and I take my sexuality very seriously. When someone tells me I'm going to hell because I was born View attachment 15875different? View attachment 15874
These people have a website called "godhatesfags.com." If you don't know who these people are just Google "Westboro Baptist church." You'll be shocked.

So are we doomed to be tortured in this life and the next? I surely hope not. So let's see what we all think on the topic of church vs suicide. Are we doomed? Are we truly sinners? Is there really a god? What have we done wrong to be tortured like this?

Throw it up in the air guys.

I Love y'all. You're a perfect addition to my family. Thank you for being you. Continue smiling, knowing you have control. That nobody needs to hurt you again. You're perfect here amongst like minded people.

ect here amongst like minded people.

Hey family,

Let's discuss Christianity's view on suicide. We all know the appropriate essence that condemns suicide as an act against the commandment "thou shalt not kill." Alright, we are seen as sinners due to the fact that we're fighting against the will of god. Is it true though that we are going against gods will? Are we truly railing against mainstream religion? Or are we simply living in the idea that we're predestined to die... by our own hands...

St. Augustine wrote a book in the fifth century called "the city if god." In this book was the first message spreading the idea that suicide was seen as an act against gods will, moreover the idea that suicidal ideation and the act of controlling ones mortality, we were seen as sinners who were going against the commandment "thou shalt not kill."

Not only were st Augustine's ideals coming from what he called the holy book. He also took from Plato's book "phaedo." A book where Plato discusses the idea that the soul is immortal. And the idea of an afterlife. How this pertains to suicide I couldn't begin to tell you. St Augustine thought it could play a part in condemning the practice of suicide though.

The church and state became a hindrance to the moral value of self gratification through suicide. Through the years suicide became an ecclesiastical crime. Usually people who attempted suicide were excommunicated. And those who succeeded in killing themselves were denied a "Christian burial." Eventually people who were suicidal were said to have committed a sin that one could not repent of.

Psalm 139:8, "if I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there." Take it how you will. It holds the value, in protestant views, that we're all going to be taken care of in the afterlife. Even if we do commit a sin.

If we delve into neopagan religions we discover a whole different view in suicide. Although taking of ones life can be considered an act against the sanctity of life. It is also seen as almost romantic in nature. Where the idea that we are reincarnated, so taking of ones life is like being reborn. Although the belief is once you're reborn you will still suffer the same ailments until you learn a way to cope.

Another view on suicide comes from the Indian religion "jainism." There is a idea that suicide is an ultimate form of "himsa" or violence and cannot be permitted. Now the religion also has a form of self administered death that is considered the ultimate form of death. "Sallekhana" is a form of contentment in the jainism views. It is an act of sacrifice by simply starving yourself to death. This isn't viewed as a suicidal act, but more of one out of reverence.

Now that we have a general idea of what goes on in the religious minds of today we are curious to know, "is God real?" Or are we condemned to a viral fate of darkness. Blackness. Nothingness?

Let's live with the idea that people like "primitive Baptists" can put constraints on our pro-choice model. People make me sick talking about "god hates you," "pray for more dead soldiers." That shit is sickening. I'm gay and I take my sexuality very seriously. When someone tells me I'm going to hell because I was born View attachment 15875different? View attachment 15874
These people have a website called "godhatesfags.com." If you don't know who these people are just Google "Westboro Baptist church." You'll be shocked.

So are we doomed to be tortured in this life and the next? I surely hope not. So let's see what we all think on the topic of church vs suicide. Are we doomed? Are we truly sinners? Is there really a god? What have we done wrong to be tortured like this?

Throw it up in the air guys.

I Love y'all. You're a perfect addition to my family. Thank you for being you. Continue smiling, knowing you have control. That nobody needs to hurt you again. You're perfect here amongst like minded people.

There are 7 suicides mentioned in Bible and in no way there is said they were bad/wrong choices. If Bible would condemn them then surely it would be written.

 

[Centerism]

I think a great example of this comes from a British sci-fi comedy programme called Red Dwarf where the writers explored this subject. The programmed the robots in believing Silicon Heaven to keep them in line.

Red Dwarf - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hey, that's pretty cool. I kind of agree with you. The Christian ideal is to believe in an afterlife. It's honestly, yet harshly, the main reason for living a "good" life. You get rewarded with the ultimate reward, heaven. I believe this is "programming" is a way for people to find a reason behind life.

I mean, don't we all wonder why we were put here to begin with? Don't we all wonder if there's an afterlife after this?

Christianity, or the protestant faith, relies on the idea that you are now in the domain of evil and if you prevail against evil you will be rewarded in the end. I think we all wish we could be rewarded. Especially those of us who feel so tortured in this life. Those of us who feel like we're screwed in this life can only wish for a happy, peaceful existence beyond this one. Hell, some of us just want it to end, with nothing after this. And that's ok.

This life, for some people, is simply unbearable. That leads us to want to end this life early with the idea that we'll finally be in peace. Hopefully that's what we'll have.

There are 7 suicides mentioned in Bible and in no way there is said they were bad/wrong choices. If Bible would condemn them then surely it would be written.

Suicide, recently, in some denominations (including some Catholic sects) is now becoming unstigmatozed(I don't know if that's actually a word). People are now becoming ok with the idea of suicide. It's not widely accepted yet, but St Augustine's view on suicide is slowly becoming disproven. Hopefully one day we will be accepted in mainstream society, and the church, with a notion of understanding. Because, truly, it isn't our fault we live this way. We've become, in one way or another, hardwired this way. It's sad, but true. So maybe one day it'll be accepted, the idea that we can't honestly control our feelings. We can only hope.

 

[a.h]

I believe in afterlife because of my nde and others because they had exactly same kind of experience. I believe that life is just learning experience and predestined. But if there is nothingness then there is nothing wrong with that either.

Religions point is to love others and I think that is good thing. I believe that if it was that simplified and people lived by that there would be nearly heaven on earth.
Even Jesus simplified all commandments (the way one should live) to love everyone (all people and animals).

So many people use religions for their own benefits by twisting it and to create hate and fear that it's disgusting.

 

[wildmoon]

Interesting thread, Centerism.

I like to listen to different ideas about religion, spirituality and death...and suicide. Darn, if it is true that I would be condemned to the same life again and again - I'll be killing myself for an eternity ;) Seriously, though - I've often wondered if there's anything other than nothing ..whether the soul moves on. I don't really know for sure. I mostly feel that when you die you return to nothing, but I am open to other possibilities.

I guess I am more spiritual than religious. I have been interested in new religious or spirtiual movements, rather than the traditional ones. I used to feel guilty about suicidal thoughts but I have reached a point and I feel that it is my right to decide what I do with my body.

And as for Westboro, I have known about them for years and they are vile. I do not even see them as religious but as a cult using religion to spread hate. Fancy standing at a soldier's funeral spewing 'you're going to hell' garbage. It's sick and twisted. They seem to focus on homosexuality more than anything, maybe I am wrong there. I think Fred Phelps' daughter left the cult, good for her.

 

[Centerism]

I believe in afterlife because of my nde and others because they had exactly same kind of experience. I believe that life is just learning experience and predestined. But if there is nothingness then there is nothing wrong with that either.

Religions point is to love others and I think that is good thing. I believe that if it was that simplified and people lived by that there would be nearly heaven on earth.
Even Jesus simplified all commandments (the way one should live) to love everyone (all people and animals).

So many people use religions for their own benefits by twisting it and to create hate and fear that it's disgusting.

I too have had a nde. That is what lead me to honestly believe in an afterlife. One thing to consider though is the chemical DMT or diemethyltryptamine (sp?). It's a chemical naturally produced by all living things. It is said that in humans it is activated by birth, severe trauma, shock and death. DMT is extracted from certain plants and a road called "the Colorado river toad" or scientifically, "bufo avarius." It is used primarily as a spiritual medium. You experience intense spiritual experiences and completely overwhelming hallucinations. This chemical has been used as an explanation for nde's. Saying when we're close to death we experience these visions due to the release of DMT into or brains. So who knows? I know what I experienced was extremely positive and I'd love to experience it again.

Religions point it to guarantee the existence of a life after, and better than, this life. Most religions teach the idea of loving and accepting one another. That is the idea that was not coined by, but professed by, Jesus Christ. Our yeshua. We have been taught by "pagans" as the church called them, or as they were really known as "earth dwellers," that we should love and support each other no matter what our endeavor. The idea of simply loving each other means that if we can accept other people, no matter what creed, we will be walking like Christ, or showing that we deserve heaven.

You're right. Certain religious belief is used as an excuse to "hate." Those people who truly rail against others for their beliefs are honestly a bit twisted. That's not what any religion teaches us. We shouldn't hate, no matter what.

 

[GeorgeJL]

"Thou shalt not kill" is a miss-translation. The original is actually thou shalt not murder. The bible never actually directly condemns suicide that I know of. Judas doesn't count because he betrayed Jesus. So yeah.

 

[Centerism]

Interesting thread, Centerism.

I like to listen to different ideas about religion, spirituality and death...and suicide. Darn, if it is true that I would be condemned to the same life again and again - I'll be killing myself for an eternity ;) Seriously, though - I've often wondered if there's anything other than nothing ..whether the soul moves on. I don't really know for sure. I mostly feel that when you die you return to nothing, but I am open to other possibilities.

I guess I am more spiritual than religious. I have been interested in new religious or spirtiual movements, rather than the traditional ones. I used to feel guilty about suicidal thoughts but I have reached a point and I feel that it is my right to decide what I do with my body.

And as for Westboro, I have known about them for years and they are vile. I do not even see them as religious but as a cult using religion to spread hate. Fancy standing at a soldier's funeral spewing 'you're going to hell' garbage. It's sick and twisted. They seem to focus on homosexuality more than anything, maybe I am wrong there. I think Fred Phelps' daughter left the cult, good for her.

Thank you. Religion is something I fancy. I studied religious history in university. It's something of a passion of mine. I truly believe in the idea that religion can make us whole. I know that sounds ludicrous. It's true though. We all strive to find a meaning for our lives. So what's wrong with the religious belief that our lives are meant to be lived on the consensus that we're predestined for an afterlife? I guess it makes sense that people, especially those like us, crave to know the meaning behind life.

About your soul, and how it lives on after you die really is up for grabs. There's been studies that have shown at the time of death we lose, I think but am not sure, 6 or 10 ounces of weight. Certain scientists believe that is our essence, or our soul leaving our body. A good book to read, or look up, is "phaedo" by Plato. In it he describes the souls immortality. I think it's written about a certain emporer or king. I can't remember exactly who it was. But in the book Plato discusses how after we die our soul becomes an essence and is immortal, eternal.It's a pretty interesting idea.

You're right. It is your choice to decide how you want to live, or die. It's not up to anyone else what ultimately happens in your life. It is interesting, though, to study those religions, mostly neopagan, who don't condemn suicide. I can help you find some if you're interested.

See, you said you used to feel guilty about having suicidal ideation. Why? It's simple. Religion, especially the protestant faith, has become so mainstream that it is part of our lives, especially subliminally, and has been deep seeded in our minds. Religion is the only thing in this world that tells us suicide is wrong. Yes, most people will say they don't want you to control your own mortality because they don't want to lose you. That thought is different from the idea of suicide being a sin. Or wrong. It might be selfish, but it's not wrong.

Westboro, well they're religious, but maybe they're more of a cult. I was so happy to see phelps die. I thought for sure that the hate would stop after that. Alas, I was naive. Did his daughter leave? Good for her. I think their church only has like 40 members. I don't get how a congregation that small can be so crooked. I mean they're known everywhere. I guess when you spew hate like that you get attention. Well, I don't blame them, I blame biblical misinterpretation. And every protestant/Catholic faith is guilty of that. Each denomination has their own versions of the bible, and they all interpret it differently. So I guess what beleif may be is what we personally make of it. Personally I believe in suicide as a viable option. Many do not though. That is key. What is it we believe? And can we blame others for their beliefs?

 

[Jessica5]

The Church became anti-suicide because so many Christians were committing suicide that there were doubts the church would survive.

 

[GeorgeJL]

The Church became anti-suicide because so many Christians were committing suicide that there were doubts the church would survive.

Really?

 

[CURSED again]

The Church became anti-suicide because so many Christians were committing suicide that there were doubts the church would survive.

wouldnt surprise me at all - there are some great documentaries these days on the history of the church etc and its incredible what has been done of course in the name of religion but we all know that already but still from a historical aspect kind of weirdly fascinating at times their shenanigans. gee i haven't used that word in decades.

p.s the asians seem more acceptable of suicide in general.

 

[Jessica5]

Really?

That's what I've read.

The Bible teaches that heaven is wonderful and life on earth is pretty pointless. Plus some of the Christians might have been afraid of an even more torturous death at the hands of the Romans.

Augustine is supposed to have been one of the first Christians to take a stance against suicide.

 

[your pathologist]

For some reason we have self preservation
And because of it we wonder if theres some special reason other than nature being nature that makes this possible
"So it must be god"
Im not religious but
Even i struggle with the morals of it

 

[Darkhaven]

I was raised among Jehovah's Witnesses and to be honest i actually believe their doctrine of soul sleep.
Once you die you lose consciousness, just like when you fall asleep.
If you meet God's criteria for ressurection then after the Battle of Armageddon, you will be brought back to earth. If not then you will simply be left dead. Even if you were the baddest, cruelest, meanest son of a bitch on earth, you get the same treatment as all the others: stay dead.
Staying dead, is, in God's eyes, the actual punishment. While the damned pansies live on a paradise, we the "bad guys" stay on a nothingness state.
According to this teology you get aquitted from your sins once you die.
I have never been a JW. My grandmother used to take me there when i was a kid, but apart from some rare and random presences in some of their meetings i never affiliated with them.
My mother fell in with them thanks to that miserable heathen she calls husband.
I always keep away from these people as i can't stand these "brainwashed by a cult" types of people.
However, i actually believe their teachings about death, and their theory of soul sleep seems to be the one more accurate to me.
Take a look at these scriptures: Ecclesiastes 9:10; Romans 6:7; Genesis 3:19; Deuteronomy 32:4.

 

[Centerism]

For some reason we have self preservation
And because of it we wonder if theres some special reason other than nature being nature that makes this possible
"So it must be god"
Im not religious but
Even i struggle with the morals of it

Our natural instinct is to survive. Because of that we thrive in the face of adversity. So in those circumstances we're taught that if we survive this world/life we will be rewarded in the next. How true it is? Well I don't exactly think the afterlife is a reward, more of a peaceful existence that isn't meant for anything. It's simply a place without instruct, without judgement, without life to hinder our placement or rank.

We instinctively believe in something else because of what you said. We cannot just exist to exist, our nature is to believe we're hard wired for something. What that something is, or what our reason is for being. I don't know. I do know that if there is a "god" in biblical standards he really is trying to test our ability to overcome.

We all struggle with the morals of the church. Simply because our history is stippled with pieces of religious dogma. It's hard to live nowadays with no thought of the church. It's printed on money even, "in God we trust." So it's understandable that we live or lives trying to either understand religion or avoid it. Either way, you're acknowledging God.

 

[woxihuanni]

It's hilarious. People believe in something after death in hope. I only entertain the possibility because existence is so fucking terrifying that I feel it is too optimistic to be sure it will end.

I don't know what is precisely wrong with me.

 

[Centerism]

I was raised among Jehovah's Witnesses and to be honest i actually believe their doctrine of soul sleep.
Once you die you lose consciousness, just like when you fall asleep.
If you meet God's criteria for ressurection then after the Battle of Armageddon, you will be brought back to earth. If not then you will simply be left dead. Even if you were the baddest, cruelest, meanest son of a bitch on earth, you get the same treatment as all the others: stay dead.
Staying dead, is, in God's eyes, the actual punishment. While the damned pansies live on a paradise, we the "bad guys" stay on a nothingness state.
According to this teology you get aquitted from your sins once you die.
I have never been a JW. My grandmother used to take me there when i was a kid, but apart from some rare and random presences in some of their meetings i never affiliated with them.
My mother fell in with them thanks to that miserable heathen she calls husband.
I always keep away from these people as i can't stand these "brainwashed by a cult" types of people.
However, i actually believe their teachings about death, and their theory of soul sleep seems to be the one more accurate to me.
Take a look at these scriptures: Ecclesiastes 9:10; Romans 6:7; Genesis 3:19; Deuteronomy 32:4.

Jehovah's witnesses. Interesting. I doubt think I've ever read one thing about them.

It's interesting you think of death as "soul sleep." What's more interesting is to think that's referred to as punishment. Honestly I think that's what most of us are looking for. An end to this miserable existence. So to die and enter a state of nothingness seems relatively peaceful compared to living a life where you're crying everyday, suffering from different ailments.

Hmmmm, I like that. Thanks for your input!

 

[your pathologist]

We all struggle with the morals of the church. Simply because our history is stippled with pieces of religious dogma. It's hard to live nowadays with no thought of the church. It's printed on money even, "in God we trust." So it's understandable that we live or lives trying to either understand religion or avoid it. Either way, you're acknowledging God.

I cant live my life without inwardly acknowledging a god. Its hard not to. What if i go to far what if im not praying hard enough [something ive given up time and time again without really recognizing and faith or worship]
This has a lot to do with my father. He suffers from psychosis and believes that the holy spriit talks to him and guides his actions and makes him start conversations with others about converting or acknowledging jesus.
Hes always talking about it, you cannot get any input from him that isn't somehow derived from some biblical lesson. He had a psychotic break 4 years ago and he was a less than holy man for nearly 40 yrs prior.
Anywho
So i have a really weird influence on my spiritual realizations or lack thereof

Before all this was coming from someone i trusted and thought to be extremely logical and more open minded my whole life, i would say i was agnostic. Still acknowledging a god like entity, but hesitate to attribute this being as anything known to the teachings of man. Or imply that it gives a shit if we ask it for help.

 

[Centerism]

It's hilarious. People believe in something after death in hope. I only entertain the possibility because existence is so fucking terrifying that I feel it is too optimistic to be sure it will end.

I don't know what is precisely wrong with me.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you. You're a child of suffering like all of us. And that's perfectly ok. Some of us were just predestined to be that way. Hopefully you'll find something on the other side.

But, my friend, there's nothing wrong with you.

 

[your pathologist]

I agree with you. I'm a wiccan and we believe in a beautiful afterlife. No matter what you do, you will end up there. And that afterlife leads to eventual reincarnation. Whether it be a plant, a bug, an animal, or a human. When you die you feed mother earth and in return she places your essence into another living being. So I agree there is an afterlife. Maybe not the one I believe in, but in one shape or form you will end up somewhere. Hopefully it is a place of love and peace. Or maybe it's just a place of st eternal darkness. Who knows?

That is a comforting yet all together unsettling view on afterlife.
You're telling me a guy like hitler shoots himself and ends up in that beautiful place just to be reincarnated and passed onto this plane again?

Maybe this is the real reason why history repeats itself.
Also, i think it may be one of the most effective ways to change a person's mind on how they will live their life again
But wait, you wont remember your previous life
And if you did would you even learn from your past actions or become even more twisted seeing that you will never have to suffer any real consequences for your actions?

Sorry for the flow of thoughts lol

 

[Centerism]

I cant live my life without inwardly acknowledging a god. Its hard not to. What if i go to far what if im not praying hard enough [something ive given up time and time again without really recognizing and faith or worship]
This has a lot to do with my father. He suffers from psychosis and believes that the holy spriit talks to him and guides his actions and makes him start conversations with others about converting or acknowledging jesus.
Hes always talking about it, you cannot get any input from him that isn't somehow derived from some biblical lesson. He had a psychotic break 4 years ago and he was a less than holy man for nearly 40 yrs prior.
Anywho
So i have a really weird influence on my spiritual realizations or lack thereof

Before all this was coming from someone i trusted and thought to be extremely logical and more open minded my whole life, i would say i was agnostic. Still acknowledging a god like entity, but hesitate to attribute this being as anything known to the teachings of man. Or imply that it gives a shit if we ask it for help.

Learning from the influence of others is exactly how we humans become who we are. Even animals learn from communicative influence. You hear somebody say "god loves" and you instantly think wow, God loves? You mighty not believe it, and you might try to find your own way to decipher it, but there again, you're acknowledging the idea that has been passed on to you.

So to say you believe there is an entity of some sort didn't come from you going "oh, btw there's a god." It came from the ideas planted by others, by influence. So it's ok to believe what you want. It just all melds together in the end. Breaking down to one single influence, the church.

I love your thought of implying an entity gives a shit. Cause honestly, does it? Reminiscent of the story of Job. He was tested simply because God wanted to see if he was faithful. Is that what's going on in our lives? Hhmmmm... well, I guess we'll soon find out.

 

[your pathologist]

I love your thought of implying an entity gives a shit. Cause honestly, does it? Reminiscent of the story of Job. He was tested simply because God wanted to see if he was faithful. Is that what's going on in our lives? Hhmmmm... well, I guess we'll soon find out.

Ooh that burns even more.
An entity you're asking for help and it just stares down like... "this is your destiny, it is my will for you". No encouragement or false hope. No promises or judgement. Just observation and disconnection.
At that point, God is only a creator.
I think people have it twisted in religion.
Or maybe they have it right and thats why hes such a meanie

 

[Centerism]

That is a comforting yet all together unsettling view on afterlife.
You're telling me a guy like hitler shoots himself and ends up in that beautiful place just to be reincarnated and passed onto this plane again?

Maybe this is the real reason why history repeats itself.
Also, i think it may be one of the most effective ways to change a person's mind on how they will live their life again
But wait, you wont remember your previous life
And if you did would you even learn from your past actions are become even more twisted seeing that you will never have to suffer any real consequences for your actions?

Sorry for the flow of thoughts lol

Wow, what a way to look at that. Is Hitler's essence waking around in soother human being? I mean most neopagan faiths base off of the reincarnation concept. Tm singe of the though believe that when you die, your essence is passed onto the next lifeform with, now get this, your past life aura in it. Essentially believing that if you suffered in the past life, you will continue suffering in the future lives until you find a way to cope with it. How about that for a slap in the face.

I don't know how typo correctly answer your other questions. So we remember or past lives? That one I can answer. No. If we did wouldn't we be aware today of the life we recently inhabited? I don't know if we would be able to change ourselves. And I don't know if it would make you more twisted knowing there's no consequences. Although I suspect it would.

No problem. I love conversing with interesting people.

 

[Darkhaven]

But if we are basically on an endless loop of reincarnation then who where the first humans or life forms to be created? Who created them?