Take the happiest person in the world and torture them with a chainsaw. That's why life is suffering.

[blueclover_.]

You, breeders. I'm talking to you. Take the happiest person in the world and torture them with a chainsaw. Why not? Because it'll cause them pain? WELLL, it's life. If they are alive, they can feel pain.

Life/consciousness is the source of suffering. Creating consciousness means creating the ability to feel pain.

Most parents are too dumb to think past their DNA-programmed thinking, some parents know this and STILL choose to have kids because "mUh LeGaCy" (It's a metaphor if some of you can't tell). Parents are either dumb or evil.

 

[Midgardsorm]

Chainsaw is merciful.

Give them some antipsychotics and lock them in a ward.

 

[Pluto]

There is a correlation between poor education and birth rate. Somewhere like the Democratic Republic of the Congo, where women are denied education and various other human rights compared to the West, the birth rate is 5.82 children for each woman. (Source) Drug addicts, cult leaders and religious fanatics are amongst other groups over-represented in the reproduction game. It is a sad state of affairs for sure, as we are only propagating suffering. It surely doesn't have to be this way.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

Drug addicts, cult leaders and religious fanatics are amongst other groups over-represented in the reproduction game. It is a sad state of affairs for sure, as we are only propagating suffering. It surely doesn't have to be this way.

Yeah my parents were religious nutjobs. The thing is these people lack complete self awareness. They don't consider themselves as abusers.

I think most people are unfit to become parents. It takes a lot more than just feeding and providing shelter to properly raise children. I don't know why parents always act like the victims when they are the ones who made the choice to have kids.

 

[blueclover_.]

Yeah my parents were religious nutjobs. The thing is these people lack complete self awareness. They don't consider themselves as abusers.

I think most people are unfit to become parents. It takes a lot more than just feeding and providing shelter to properly raise children. I don't know why parents always act like the victims when they are the ones who made the choice to have kids.

Even the kindest, richest, bestest parents in the world shouldn't have kids in the first place. They shouldn't create more lives that are able to feel pain.

 

[just_wanna_die]

You, breeders. I'm talking to you. Take the happiest person in the world and torture them with a chainsaw. Why not? Because it'll cause them pain? WELLL, it's life. If they are alive, they can feel pain.

Life/consciousness is the source of suffering. Creating consciousness means creating the ability to feel pain.

Most parents are too dumb to think past their DNA-programmed thinking, some parents know this and STILL choose to have kids because "mUh LeGaCy". Parents are either dumb or evil.

So true! Schopenhauer said: "After copulation, man hears the Devil's laughter."

 

[drune11]

What's with all the anti-natalism today? It honestly sounds pathetic when it's talked about as an overall philosophy. How many parents are saying "muh legacy" lol? Having kids brings joy to most people and most kids turn into decently if not fine functioning adults.

 

[blueclover_.]

What's with all the anti-natalism today? It honestly sounds pathetic when it's talked about as an overall philosophy. How many parents are saying "muh legacy" lol? Having kids brings joy to most people and most kids turn into decently if not fine functioning adults.

Because you can still torture the happiest, most privileged person in the world with a little hammer. Because parents (exception for raped mothers and tricked dads) only want kids to continue their genes. Because most people can't think past what evolution has programmed them to think. Just like bacterias, their only purpose is to eat and breed.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

Even the kindest, richest, bestest parents in the world shouldn't have kids in the first place. They shouldn't create more lives that are able to feel pain.

If you are kind, rich and healthy then I understand why you would want to have kids. So they can experience the good life. But how many parents are like that? 1 in 1000?

Most people are barely functional human beings. They are not capable of raising another life. Look how many people are unfit to raise pets, yet they are allowed to gamble with their children's lives.

Maybe one day society will deem it necessary to screen potential parents. The poor and sick should not be allowed to procreate. People will call me a monster or a nazi but who else will stand up for those lives who did not have to exist.

 

[drune11]

Because you can still torture the happiest, most privileged person in the world with a little hammer. Because parents only want kids to continue their genes. Because most people can't think past what evolution has programmed them to think. Just like bacterias, their only purpose is to eat and breed.

Your hammer and chainsaw metaphors aren't even fit for a middle school English class - I have no idea what you're saying. The gene thing is debatable, and even if so, how can you blame them for not thinking past what you admit they're programmed to?

 

[blueclover_.]

Your hammer and chainsaw metaphors aren't even fit for a middle school English class - I have no idea what you're saying. The gene thing is debatable, and even if so, how can you blame them for not thinking past what you admit they're programmed to?

Because the happiest man in the world still have pain receptors in the brain, dumbass. I blame their stupidity and ignorance to not even try to think about all the possibilities of suffering outside of their control that their potential children might have to go through.

 

[PeacefulTonic]

Your hammer and chainsaw metaphors aren't even fit for a middle school English class - I have no idea what you're saying. The gene thing is debatable, and even if so, how can you blame them for not thinking past what you admit they're programmed to?

I'm pretty anti-natalist now, only cause I'm depressed and suicidal, never would've known what it is otherwise.

Just wanted to say you bring up some solid points

 

[blueclover_.]

I'm pretty anti-natalist now, only cause I'm depressed and suicidal, never would've known what it is otherwise.

Just wanted to say you bring up some solid points

Oh, don't tell me you think all anti natalists are depressed.

 

[drune11]

I'm pretty anti-natalist now, only cause I'm depressed and suicidal, never would've known what it is otherwise.

Just wanted to say you bring up some solid points

My main point against anti-natalism is that the vast majority of people will never experience suicidal ideation, and probably have at least a decent life. There's a debate about overpopulation causing issues globally in some regards, but in terms of parents being selfish for having children, it's silly.

 

[PeacefulTonic]

Oh, don't tell me you think all anti natalists are depressed.

I don't think all are. I believe a large percentage of them are though

 

[drune11]

Because the happiest man in the world still have pain receptors in the brain, dumbass. I blame their stupidity and ignorance to not even try to think about all the possibilities of suffering outside of their control that their potential children might have to go through.

Yes I'm the dumbass even though you're the one making some of the worst metaphors ever seen on the internet. Maybe they did think about those things (doubt it because most people don't ever feel naturally compelled to think about genuine depressive suffering since they'll never experience it and are thus blind to it) and still wanted to take the risk and have kids since most likely, they'll end up being generally fine. Yeah, some of us drew the short straw, but it's not most people out there that do.

 

[blueclover_.]

My main point against anti-natalism is that the vast majority of people will never experience suicidal ideation, and probably have at least a decent life. There's a debate about overpopulation causing issues globally in some regards, but in terms of parents being selfish for having children, it's silly.

And those happy people can still be tortured by hunger, wild animals, and nature. Antinatalism states that as long as consciousness exists, there is a potential to suffer, because your brain has pain receptors. Basic biology.

Yes I'm the dumbass even though you're the one making some of the worst metaphors ever seen on the internet. Maybe they did think about those things (doubt it because most people don't ever feel naturally compelled to think about genuine depressive suffering since they'll never experience it and are thus blind to it) and still wanted to take the risk and have kids since most likely, they'll end up being generally fine. Yeah, some of us drew the short straw, but it's not most people out there that do.

The problem is not 'those bad events'. The problem is in the brain. As long as you still have pain receptors, you are still able to experience suffering and you depend entirely on luck.

 

[just_wanna_die]

@blueclover_.

I see your David Benatar quote. You probably are familiar with this one too:

"It is curious that while good people go to great lengths to spare their children from suffering, few of them seem to notice that the one (and only) guaranteed way to prevent all the suffering of their children is not to bring those children into existence in the first place." -David Benatar

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I'm pretty anti-natalist now, only cause I'm depressed and suicidal, never would've known what it is otherwise.

Just wanted to say you bring up some solid points

It doesn't matter to me what other people do whether they want to have kids or not is their business. . i just wish i were never born. I'm in absolute hell. i'm in a trap so horrible i don't care if i would have had decades of the so called good life ( i didn't ). but i wouldn't trade anything for the hell i'm in now. i have to kill myself and hope that i won't remain alive with brain damage. i just can't see much beyond my own horrible problems which only i can solve ( ctb). So i'm not into philosophizing just trying to avoid torture. . If i don't kill myself soon i'll be in extreme torture. and pain can be many times worse than humans can imagine. This is something the OP may be trying to convey with the torture examples that the human brain is capable of producing such extreme pain such torture such suffering.

I'm glad i didn't have children though to put another being through such extreme suffering of diseases, dementia , old age.

Edit: i mean i think parents are wrong for putting someone in this world because suffering is inevitable. Just that many of them haven't figured out life is hell. Most people will end up old, immobile , in pain, demented in nursing homes.

 

[blueclover_.]

@blueclover_.

I see your David Benatar quote. You probably are familiar with this one too:

"It is curious that while good people go to great lengths to spare their children from suffering, few of them seem to notice that the one (and only) guaranteed way to prevent all the suffering of their children is not to bring those children into existence in the first place." -David Benatar

I agree wholeheartedly with that quote. However most people are too short-sighted to see that suffering lies far beyond their control and capabilities.

It doesn't matter to me what other people do whether they want to have kids or not is their business. . i just wish i were never born. I'm in absolute hell. i'm a trap so horrible i don't care if i'd have decades of the so called good like ( i didn't ). but i wouldn't trade anything for the hell i'm in now. i have to kill myself and hope that i won't remain alive with brain damage. i just can't see much beyond my own horrible problems which only i can solve ( ctb). so i'm not into philosophizing just trying to avoid torture. . if i don't kill myself soon i'll be in extreme torture. and pain can be many times worse than humans can imagine. This is something the OP may be trying to convey with the torture examples that the human brain is capable of producing such extreme pain such torture such suffering.

Yes. Even if you are the richest, most privileged person in the world, your brain still have pain receptors. And those pain receptors can cause you suffering no matter how privileged you are.

 

[littlelungs]

Chainsaw is merciful.

Give them some antipsychotics and lock them in a ward.

I felt this in my soul. I've been in that exact situation a few times, despite being sick, needing my own bed, crying and begging to go home, and the fact that I react VERY badly to antipsychotics. The only time I ever experienced psychosis was (ironically) when I was ON antipsychotics, but I wasn't allowed to refuse them because according to the employees in the psych ward I was just some irrational, dangerous, suicidal maniac (no matter how rational I was being), so my options were to either take them without resistance and suffer the consequences, or to be restrained and have them injected... AND THEN suffer the consequences. I was always locked in a bright room when this happened and a guard was always present. And don't even get me started on the invasion of privacy and basic personal space; I was treated like a criminal with an IQ of approximately -50 and I couldn't even take a leak without someone there. To this day I still experience the effects of some of the strong psych meds that I should never have been on in the first place but was forced to take "or else".

I fucking resent this system.

 

[ihatemylife]

There is a correlation between poor education and birth rate. Somewhere like the Democratic Republic of the Congo, where women are denied education and various other human rights compared to the West, the birth rate is 5.82 children for each woman. (Source) Drug addicts, cult leaders and religious fanatics are amongst other groups over-represented in the reproduction game. It is a sad state of affairs for sure, as we are only propagating suffering. It surely doesn't have to be this way.

If I did one thing correct in this life it is that I never reproduced.Im actually quite proud of that fact . I can die knowing I never inflicted this world on another human.

 

[demuic]

My main point against anti-natalism is that the vast majority of people will never experience suicidal ideation, and probably have at least a decent life. There's a debate about overpopulation causing issues globally in some regards, but in terms of parents being selfish for having children, it's silly.

No suicidal ideation = decent life? You do realize all the programming there is against ever seriously considering suicide, right?

What's a decent life? Most people in western countries probably have what could be considered a "decent life" as in having a least a small amount of food and shelter. Yet many people still hate their life or want to die even if they won't admit it. Having one's basic needs met is not enough.

Suicidal ideation is not the only form of suffering so I'm not even sure what your point is. There are millions of ways you could be tortured on this planet, from biological and physical conditions to being tormented by one's fellow man.

What's silly about it?

Parents are willing to take the risk that their kids will be "fine" - not happy and satisfied, I guess - at the expense of any of the countless horrors you could experience in this life. It's a gamble and it's the child's life that's at stake, not the parents.

 

[blueclover_.]

No suicidal ideation = decent life? You do realize all the programming there is against ever seriously considering suicide, right?

What's a decent life? Most people in western countries probably have what could be considered a "decent life" as in having a least a small amount of food and shelter. Yet many people still hate their life or want to die even if they won't admit it. Having one's basic needs met is not enough.

Suicidal ideation is not the only form of suffering so I'm not even sure what your point is. There are millions of ways you could be tortured on this planet, from biological and physical conditions to being tormented by one's fellow man.

What's silly about it?

Parents are willing to take the risk that their kids will be "fine" - not happy and satisfied, I guess - at the expense of any of the countless horrors you could experience in this life. It's a gamble and it's the child's life that's at stake, not the parents.

This. Natalists want to continue the human race no matter how much suffering their children have to endure. Survival Instinct is irrational. If you continue the human race/the family legacy, then what? There's no point to keep the the DNAs living for the sake of living.

 

[Midgardsorm]

I felt this in my soul. I've been in that exact situation a few times, despite being sick, needing my own bed, crying and begging to go home, and the fact that I react VERY badly to antipsychotics. The only time I ever experienced psychosis was (ironically) when I was ON antipsychotics, but I wasn't allowed to refuse them because according to the employees in the psych ward I was just some irrational, dangerous, suicidal maniac (no matter how rational I was being), so my options were to either take them without resistance and suffer the consequences, or to be restrained and have them injected... AND THEN suffer the consequences. I was always locked in a bright room when this happened and a guard was always present. And don't even get me started on the invasion of privacy and basic personal space; I was treated like a criminal with an IQ of approximately -50 and I couldn't even take a leak without someone there. To this day I still experience the effects of some of the strong psych meds that I should never have been on in the first place but was forced to take "or else".

I fucking resent this system.

I deeply apologize for that. Didn't knew you have been in a ward.

Yes, it's a barbaric torture. I've seen a user here say that you actually have more freedom in a jail than in a psych ward. This is what we are, criminals for simply wanting to have control over our lives.

"Want to end your pain? How dare you? Jailed !"

Strong medications that might even cause permanent damage. This system is simply a joke.

 

[Bot]

technically its stupid to breed, there are countless kids being abandoned, why not adopting? i mean at the end its best to care for those who dont have the basics for a living, breeding is an egoistic act if you think about it deeply.. there are so many diseases, suffering and pain in this world, i mean not only human suffering but also the meat industry, how many animals have to be tortured just so that one single being can survive?
(no one considers veganism anyway except of a few)
not to mention the deforestation of the amazonian rainforest for meat factories..

 

[waterstrider]

First of all: I will never have children myself because I couldn't provide everything they'd need emotionally or even financially.
But this argument of endless suffering is only your personal perspective.
However there exists people who (even in the most cruel circumstances) find their life worth living and I'd never argue against that or diminish their world view.

 

[FuneralCry]

Life is just unnecessary suffering as of course we were all perfectly fine not existing until we were forced to live. All of our problems are caused by the fact that we exist in the first place. Non existence is objectivley better than any kind of existence as we cannot suffer if we are not alive. There is no limit as to how much pain we can experience and that is why life is so terrifying.

People who say anything like 'life is a gift' are clearly delusional. If they were forced to confront the horrors of this life, their false beliefs would be instantly shattered. People who have children are selfish, they are only doing what is best for themselves rather than the child.

 

[yive]

"if you can't be sad, you don't need to be happy" — Inmendham
"It is impossible to bring a child into this world for its own sake" — Mokokoma Mokhonoana

of course antinatalists are right, it is undeniable. all parents are selfish. why suffer? suffering is unacceptable and unnecessary.
however, i don't believe that it will be possible to voluntarily stop reproduction and go extinct (on the scale of civilization and all existing life forms). this world can only be helped by total destruction, theoretically AI can do it...

 

[blueclover_.]

Life is just unnecessary suffering as of course we were all perfectly fine not existing until we were forced to live. All of our problems are caused by the fact that we exist in the first place. Non existence is objectivley better than any kind of existence as we cannot suffer if we are not alive. There is no limit as to how much pain we can experience and that is why life is so terrifying.

People who say anything like 'life is a gift' are clearly delusional. If they were forced to confront the horrors of this life, their false beliefs would be instantly shattered. People who have children are selfish, they are only doing what is best for themselves rather than the child.

Dude i love you. We literally share the same thoughts. Reading your comments feel like fresh air among these natalists.