Take that, covid.

[Someone123]

Again, the vaccines don't prevent the transmission of covid whatsoever. The director of the CDC admitted this in january https://t.co/m7LfrsWDrc as I already mentioned and you ignored it. You used a statement from the CDC to back your claims, but when the CDC says something that goes against your narrative, you conveniently ignore it and keep talking about fires in boats and movie theaters. Why?

Another article from New Scientest says:

People who are fully vaccinated against covid-19 are far less likely to infect others, despite the arrival of the delta variant, several studies show. The findings refute the idea, which has become common in some circles, that vaccines no longer do much to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

"They absolutely do reduce transmission," says Christopher Byron Brooke at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. "Vaccinated people do transmit the virus in some cases, but the data are super crystal-clear that the risk of transmission for a vaccinated individual is much, much lower than for an unvaccinated individual."

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...d-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/#ixzz7OXhk70i6

I don't associate with the elderly, overweight, or those with heart/lung problems.

Josh Tidmore, age 36, was perfectly healthy when he got covid and he died on 8/11/21 from Covid. Numerous other healthy young people have also died from covid. https://www.kktv.com/2021/08/23/though-young-healthy-unvaccinated-father-dies-covid/

 

[callme]

What is everybody's problem with the virus? The virus isn't evil, the people irresponsible enough to spread it, believe scientists blindly all that soon and force others to take questionable decisions, they are the evil ones. The virus doesn't profit financially, megecorps do, the same ones that pin the blame for environment on us, but contribute two times more to it. And claim to prevent it while it skins rabbits for beauty products.

What's next, blame the Chernobyl reactor for going berserk by itself?

 

[Someone123]

What is everybody's problem with the virus? The virus isn't evil, the people irresponsible enough to spread it, believe scientists blindly all that soon and force others to take questionable decisions, they are the evil ones. The virus doesn't profit financially, megecorps do, the same ones that pin the blame for environment on us, but contribute two times more to it. And claim to prevent it while it skins rabbits for beauty products.

What's next, blame the Chernobyl reactor for going berserk by itself?

The virus has killed more than twice as many Americans in the past two years as died in all of Wold War II, and the best defense against this for the whole population is to have as many people vaccinated as possible- this is proven by many studies and it is not a blind belief in science but a clear-thinking analysis of the available data.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

There is basically no true objective data with regards to Covid. I will say this: look at who stands to gain something. Look at how everything is connected. Sources don't mean shit if they're all bought and paid for.

 

[GentleJerk]

The director of the CDC's statements are more recent, the studies from the medical journals I linked to have been peer reviewed, and feature randomized double-blind placebo controlled studies. Not that I put my faith in any of this, but the one in your news report has not. So it is far less admissible. It's mainly theoretical, repackaged data designed to steal the top spots in a simple google search. They are not being paid to reflect the real truth, they get paid depending on how well they fulfill their employers contracts.

If you read it carefully you can even find the smoking gun without having to check their sources:
"De Gier says they cannot calculate the full reduction in transmission due to vaccination, because they don't know exactly how much vaccination reduces the risk of transmission. But even assuming vaccination only halves the risk of infection, this would still imply..." Hearsay, speculation and conjecture masquerading as scientific fact. Rubbish. They don't know how much the vaccine reduces the risk of transmission because they are not being paid to know that, and other scientific research has discovered that it in fact does not. Let's just sweep all that under the carpet, shall we?

I even have two other links here to separate studies from Australia and the Netherlands, but I'd rather not feed into this nonsense anymore. It hasn't served any constructive purpose so far. No matter how much weight it holds, it's too easy to pull a link from a google search that will argue against it. I'm done going around in circles and I'm done talking to a brick wall. But if you are going to keep trying to have the last say, scare-mongering, and paint the unvaccinated in the worst possible light, I'm going to keep showing you why you should think again. Not even because I think you will listen or be open to it, but because others are going to read this.

 

[Someone123]

Using words like "rubbish", "brick wall", and "scare-mongering" to try to win an argument is just silly- it's just trying to bully your way into winning an argument rather than to rely on reasoning. Presenting evidence that the vaccines reduce transmission of the virus is not "scare-mongering". Following are quotes from the article that you posted from The Rockefeller University:

"While a natural infection may induce maturation of antibodies with broader activity than a vaccine does—a natural infection can also kill you," says Michel C. Nussenzweig, the Zanvil A. Cohn and Ralph M. Steinman professor and head of Rockefeller's Laboratory of Molecular Immunology. "A vaccine won't do that and, in fact, protects against the risk of serious illness or death from infection."

So clearly they are recommending the vaccine because your can get protection without the risk of death that comes from the virus.

"When to administer the booster depends on the object of boosting," he says. "If the goal is to prevent infection, then boosting will need to be done after 6 to 18 months depending on the immune status of the individual. If the goal is to prevent serious disease boosting may not be necessary for years."

So clearly they are also recommending the boosters, though they are also saying that there is debate about when to get the boosters depending on if your goal is to prevent infection or if the goal is more limited- to prevent serious disease.

So the article that you posted clearly recommends both the vaccines and the boosters.

 

[GentleJerk]

Just a second.




The article I posted proves that natural immunity is superior. You've even quoted a line that says, in plain english, that the natural antibodies are superior- something you denied only a few comments back, remember? You said "It's definitely proven that you get much more protection from the vaccine than from the [natural] antibodies" That's not true. Rather than demand you take my word for it, I showed you the proof. Ignoring that and then using quotes from that very same article is a bit weird.

Of course they recommend getting the vaccine instead of getting covid if you want some antibodies. What does that matter? No one is recommending that you deliberately get infected instead of vaccinated.

I haven't bullied you. If backing up my claims with solid scientific research is not using reason, then what is? De Gier's statement from that news article you shared is rubbish. When you repeat over and over that covid has killed more people than WWII and if you don't get a vax then It's like a fire breaking out in a movie theater and trapping everybody inside, you are scare-mongering. When what I am saying is being ignored it is like talking to a brick wall.

...And around and around we go.

 

[Shu]

Honestly, of the thousand people dying each day most are unvaccinated.

Hmm.. I don't know most of the people I know of who died from covid was vaccinated.

If a person says it's just a personal choice to not get the vaccine, well this person can transmit the virus to others, who then die. Saying that is something like if you have twenty people in the same boat and one person says- it's my personal choice to start a fire in my part of the boat, other people should only worry about their part of the boat- but that is not correct, fair, or ethical, because this "personal choice" can kill other people in the boat.

The virus is still transmitted regardless if you are vaccinated or not. Lol
I haven't gotten vaccinated was homeless since 2019 until last year in September never caught covid nor has anyone else that was around me. They always "knew of someone who had covid" the entire time I was homeless I did not see one person who was sick. Kind of weird.

 

[Someone123]

When you repeat over and over that covid has killed more people than WWII and if you don't get a vax then It's like a fire breaking out in a movie theater and trapping everybody inside, you are scare-mongering.

...And around and around we go.

Again you are distorting things. I did say that if you don't get a vax due to a personal choice- and I explained clearly that it was not a perfect analogy, but that the basic point is correct- it is similar to saying that not evacuating a theater on fire is a personal choice, when it can affect whether others live or die, which is exactly the same effect of not getting the vaccine.

When I mention that more than twice as many americans have died of this virus than all of the americans that died in world war two this is not fear mongering, it is in response to people minimizing the impact of the virus- it is stating a fact in a way that gives perspective to how serious this virus is, and how important it is for people to do whatever they can to stop this virus- not just for their own welfare but for the health and well being of the people around them. This was in response to the statement that said:

Covid has always been a mild disease for the overwhelming majority of people so mass vaccination was always nonsensical.

Mass vaccination is not nonsensical, it is our best bet against this deadly virus. Referring to covid as a mild disease is a very poor description considering the extremely large death toll, and the reference to WWII illustrates this. I know you say mild for the overwhelming majority of people, but that's a silly way to look at it- what if the virus ends up killing 1% of the u.s. population eventually, which would not be surprising the way it is going- then 99% live, and 3 million plus would be dead. Using the term mild disease is silly and misleading when almost a million people have died here.

 

[GentleJerk]

it is similar to saying that not evacuating a theater on fire is a personal choice, when it can affect whether others live or die, which is exactly the same effect of not getting the vaccine.

I'm going to disagree with you on this one.

When I mention that more than twice as many americans have died of this virus than all of the americans that died in world war two this is not fear mongering

Again, I disagree. First, drawing a comparison by using the death toll of WWII has quite the impact. Mainly that of fear and manipulating emotions.

Second, "The CDC itself https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm caused a stir at the end of August by estimating that the virus directly caused only 6 percent, or now just over 11,000 of the 187,000 attributed deaths. Most of these deaths were in the elderly.

The remaining 94 percent died with and not exclusively of the coronavirus. These people also were on average elderly and had 2.6 other health problems. This implies a good fraction who succumbed had three or more comorbidities. In other words, most deaths attributed to the coronavirus were in very sick people."

The fatality numbers are highly misleading. And the entirely different nature, number of total people included (the entire world), and timelines, makes a WWII comparison redundant.

what if the virus ends up killing 1% of the u.s. population eventually, which would not be surprising the way it is going- then 99% die, and 3 million plus would be dead. Using the term mild disease is silly and misleading when almost a million people have died here

I'm sure fast food would beat covid in that contest. I'm unvaccinated and I stayed in a home for 14 days with someone who had it, no problems. Just because some people have a serious reaction does not mean it is a serious disease. My fam who caught it is in her 60's and described it as "much milder than a flu" so please, calm down.

 

[Someone123]

The remaining 94 percent died with and not exclusively of the coronavirus. These people also were on average elderly and had 2.6 other health problems. This implies a good fraction who succumbed had three or more comorbidities. In other words, most deaths attributed to the coronavirus were in very sick people."

This is a rather extreme distortion of the data. The biggest comorbidity is high blood pressure, which most people live with high blood pressure with no issues if they take the correct medications for many years- thirty or forty years. A lot of people have other so called comorbidities such as being overwieght, which is like half of america at least. Without getting into every detail due to time constraints, the 975,000 deaths caused by covid is a valid number, and the fact that a high percentage of americans are overweight and have high blod pressure and often other conditions is irrelevant, the cause of death is covid for 975,000 people so far.

 

[GentleJerk]

This is a rather extreme distortion of the data.

Well in all fairness, no it's not. They're not my words. That's straight from the CDC's mouth, who you seemed pretty fond of a minute ago. You're accusing the CDC of "extreme distortion of the data" now, just because it pokes a hole in your narrative. When a minute ago you were trying to tell me the "facts" according to the CDC...

Think about that. Maybe you might feel too strongly about all this to actually slow down and accept new information that challenges your preconceptions?

the fact that a high percentage of americans are overweight and have high blod pressure and often other conditions is irrelevant, the cause of death is covid for 975,000 people so far.

When drawing up statistics for causes of death, if comorbidity contributes to them, it is never irrelevant. And I didn't mention fast food as a co-factor, I meant purely on its own! Anyway as the CDC stated on their website in August, about the numbers, 94% died with and not exclusively of the coronavirus.

Wanted to be done with all this... but I'll be damned if I let someone who's mission is to sully a thread about my unvaxxed triumph over covid, with arguments about death toll numbers WWII references and talk of burning boats and theaters, have the last say. The mods will have to roll in and delete or lock this down before I tap out.

We've all heard what you are saying a million times before. You really couldn't read a post by someone who is unvaxxed (not an anti-vaxxer by the way) talk about how they tango'd with the 'rona and managed to come out on top, without getting all hot and heavy could you? Is it too much to ask that you let me have a moment of celebration without insinuating that I'm killing everybody else in the boat, and that it's twice as bad as WWII?

 

[Someone123]

Well in all fairness, no it's not. They're not my words. That's straight from the CDC's mouth, who you seemed pretty fond of a minute ago. You're accusing the CDC of "extreme distortion of the data" now, just because it pokes a hole in your narrative. When a minute ago you were trying to tell me the "facts" according to the CDC...

Think about that. Maybe you might feel too strongly about all this to actually slow down and accept new information that challenges your preconceptions?

When drawing up statistics for causes of death, if comorbidity contributes to them, it is never irrelevant. And I didn't mention fast food as a co-factor, I meant purely on its own! Anyway as the CDC stated on their website in August, about the numbers, 94% died with and not exclusively of the coronavirus.

Wanted to be done with all this... but I'll be damned if I let someone who's mission is to sully a thread about my unvaxxed triumph over covid, with arguments about death toll numbers WWII references and talk of burning boats and theaters, have the last say. The mods will have to roll in and delete or lock this down before I tap out.

We've all heard what you are saying a million times before. You really couldn't read a post by someone who is unvaxxed (not an anti-vaxxer by the way) talk about how they tango'd with the 'rona and managed to come out on top, without getting all hot and heavy could you? Is it too much to ask that you let me have a moment of celebration without insinuating that I'm killing everybody else in the boat, and that it's twice as bad as WWII?

This has been a reasonable thread, in my opinion, with differences of opinion, and now you're ready to cry to the mods for help because you're so scared? There's no reason to lock the thread for a legitimate discussion in the offtopic area unless you just cannot stand someone having a different opinion than you, so you want to go weeping to the mommy and daddy mods to save you from the rantional explanations for how our best weapon for stopping the virus is to get the highest percentage of people vaccinated that we can, except for rare exceptions based on their health situtaion. If we could get 90% of the wrold's population fully vaccintaed and keeping up on boosters that would be our best defense against this very dangerous and mutating virus.

 

[GentleJerk]

This has been a reasonable thread, in my opinion, with differences of opinion, and now you're ready to cry to the mods for help because you're so scared? There's no reason to lock the thread for a legitimate discussion in the offtopic area unless you just cannot stand someone having a different opinion than you, so you want to go weeping to the mommy and daddy mods to save you from the rantional explanations for how our best weapon for stopping the virus is to get the highest percentage of people vaccinated that we can, except for rare exceptions based on their health situtaion. If we could get 90% of the wrold's population fully vaccintaed and keeping up on boosters that would be our best defense against this very dangerous and mutating virus.

lol wtf are you even talking about? You've lost it.

 

[Someone123]

lol wtf are you even talking about? You've lost it.

That's just silly- it's a legit comeback to your weak post about the thread being locked because someone disagrees with you.

 

[GentleJerk]

That's just silly- it's a legit comeback to your weak post about the thread being locked because someone disagrees with you.

A hissy fit based on an incorrect interpretation of what I wrote, is what it is.

 

[Someone123]

A hissy fit based on an incorrect interpretation of what I wrote, is what it is.

It's sad that resort to such weak language as "hissy fit" instead of being consistent is using reasoning to support your point of view- if you were in a debate competition you would get wiped out because you so often resort to lame language like that rather than using reasoned arguments.

 

[GentleJerk]

It's sad that resort to such weak language as "hissy fit" instead of being consistent is using reasoning to support your point of view- if you were in a debate competition you would get wiped out because you so often resort to lame language like that rather than using reasoned arguments.

You might be a cunning linguist, but I'm a master debator.