AnnaJaspers

AnnaJaspers

Experienced
Jul 2, 2019
217
Would any of you consider applying if the quality of your medical file was sufficient (whatever that arbitrary standard means) to qualify you for assisted death?

My main reasons for the Swiss option would be: guaranteed success, won't be alone, and it lends an air of legitimacy to what I believe is a fundamental human right.

Curious if anyone here has thought of this option with any seriousness.
 
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jrums

jrums

Student
Apr 14, 2019
134
I applied to Dignitas, an assisted suicide clinic in Switzerland. They sent me a packet to fill out giving them power of attorney over my life. I have neurological and physical damage from antidepressants but its hard to use that as my reason because it's an unrecognized condition. So they told me just to gather my medical records in regards to my chronic mental illness as mental illness is accepted for assisted suicide there. The only problem is its expensive. Plus I don't really feel like jumping through hoops just to die. Although it would probably be the best option, at least for my family. Maybe it would make it easier for them.
I already have SN and antiemetics so I think that's how I'm gonna go.
 
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Brick In The Wall

Brick In The Wall

2M Or Not 2B.
Oct 30, 2019
25,158
Would any of you consider applying if the quality of your medical file was sufficient (whatever that arbitrary standard means) to qualify you for assisted death?

My main reasons for the Swiss option would be: guaranteed success, won't be alone, and it lends an air of legitimacy to what I believe is a fundamental human right.

Curious if anyone here has thought of this option with any seriousness.

I'd considered it myself, but I figured it wouldn't be practical. It's probably a million hoops long and filled with costly expenses. Anything medical related usually is, they charge like 20$ for an aspirin at the ER!
 
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burnedCookie

Student
Aug 8, 2019
120
Honestly if you can afford it why not. Like you said guaranteed success and peace of mind knowing everything is taken care of.
On the other hand if you really think about it, the only thing they really do is hand you a drink, and 7500$ for a drink is not cheap.
 
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Nem

Nem

Drs suck mega ass!
Sep 3, 2018
1,489
I applied to Dignitas, an assisted suicide clinic in Switzerland. They sent me a packet to fill out giving them power of attorney over my life. I have neurological and physical damage from antidepressants but its hard to use that as my reason because it's an unrecognized condition. So they told me just to gather my medical records in regards to my chronic mental illness as mental illness is accepted for assisted suicide there. The only problem is its expensive. Plus I don't really feel like jumping through hoops just to die. Although it would probably be the best option, at least for my family. Maybe it would make it easier for them.
I already have SN and antiemetics so I think that's how I'm gonna go.
Sorry to hear about the damage. I am in the same boat and I have to fight the urge daily to not take out as many drs as possible before I go. (Take then out for dinner...of course)
Peace/hugs...DEATH
I've thought about it lots, we have assisted suicide here but qualifying for it is ridiculous
Peace/hugs...DEATH!!!
 
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GerMann

GerMann

year of birth: 1972
Nov 30, 2018
274
mental illness is accepted for assisted suicide there -> that is a new Info for me. In the past "Depression" was a diagnosis of exclusion...
 
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I’vehadenough

I’vehadenough

Elementalist
Sep 15, 2018
847
I applied to Dignitas and their English is so bad, they didn't understand my case. But I'd rather get assisted bc death is guaranteed
 
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WhiteDespair

WhiteDespair

The Temporary Problem is Life
Oct 24, 2019
837
I mostly just like the topic because it sounds like the name of a tv show on TLC.
 
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burnedCookie

Student
Aug 8, 2019
120
mental illness is accepted for assisted suicide there -> that is a new Info for me. In the past "Depression" was a diagnosis of exclusion...

No. It has always been possible but from that study made between 2010-2014 it's only 3% of cases.

Asssui dep Asssui dep 2


I applied to Dignitas and their English is so bad, they didn't understand my case. But I'd rather get assisted bc death is guaranteed


Then try the new one Pegasos. Same price and they speak English perfectly from what they say :)

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/new-assisted-suicide-organisation-in-switzerland.24397/
 
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FTL.Wanderer

FTL.Wanderer

Enlightened
May 31, 2018
1,782
Would any of you consider applying if the quality of your medical file was sufficient (whatever that arbitrary standard means) to qualify you for assisted death?

I cannot say "YES!" strongly enough. This is my fantasy. I don't want to have to do the prep work. I don't want to have to think about the technical problems at the end. I want, then, to revert back to infancy and have (hopefully compassionate) medical experts take me out of life.
The only problem is its expensive. Plus I don't really feel like jumping through hoops just to die.

YES YES YES!!!
but I figured it wouldn't be practical. It's probably a million hoops long and filled with costly expenses. Anything medical related usually is

Absolutely. And having to jump through those burning hoops while struggling with depression or chronic pain or... Impractical for many.

"Assisted suicide is carried out if life no longer appears worth living TO THE PERSON CONCERNED" -- If only it were truly that simple. :(
 
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Moony21

Moony21

Experienced
Nov 23, 2018
273
Do you hear about the "Pegasos Swiss Association"?
not too much of bureaucratic, what I heard of.
 
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GerMann

GerMann

year of birth: 1972
Nov 30, 2018
274
FAQs

Pegasos does not accept young people with depression or other severe mental illness. Rather, Pegasos will refer such applications to counselling services such as those published on the Pegasos website.
Mental illness is a vexed issue. At Pegasos we believe that you can still have mental capacity even if you suffer from long term depression. The most important thing is to tell us of your mental illness and then we can work with you for the best outcome.
 
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Moony21

Moony21

Experienced
Nov 23, 2018
273
FAQs

Pegasos does not accept young people with depression or other severe mental illness. Rather, Pegasos will refer such applications to counselling services such as those published on the Pegasos website.
Mental illness is a vexed issue. At Pegasos we believe that you can still have mental capacity even if you suffer from long term depression. The most important thing is to tell us of your mental illness and then we can work with you for the best outcome.

alles klar
 
C

Corraled

Student
Oct 11, 2019
125
Is it legal to assist a suicide in switzerland if you are not a doctor? As in, witnessing it, being with someone and not stopping it?
 
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Hel

Member
Mar 30, 2019
94
It would be my dream method. But
1. I can't afford it
2. I will never be elegible
 
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AnnaJaspers

AnnaJaspers

Experienced
Jul 2, 2019
217
I cannot say "YES!" strongly enough. This is my fantasy. I don't want to have to do the prep work. I don't want to have to think about the technical problems at the end. I want, then, to revert back to infancy and have (hopefully compassionate) medical experts take me out of life.


YES YES YES!!!


Absolutely. And having to jump through those burning hoops while struggling with depression or chronic pain or... Impractical for many.


"Assisted suicide is carried out if life no longer appears worth living TO THE PERSON CONCERNED" -- If only it were truly that simple. :(

The worst would be to jump through the hoops only to be rejected at the end; but at least one could say they tried.
 
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FTL.Wanderer

FTL.Wanderer

Enlightened
May 31, 2018
1,782
The worst would be to jump through the hoops only to be rejected at the end; but at least one could say they tried.

Absolutely. All that effort only to be denied. I think about all those gravely ill patients who struggled in their last months of life to get the courts to grant them permission to die, only to be slapped in the face with a fat, loud, "NO!" :(
 
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c824767

Specialist
Sep 2, 2019
358
 
mathieu

mathieu

Enlightened
Jun 5, 2019
1,090
Yes, I want to apply but I would need my parents to pay and they have said no.
 
fightingsioux

fightingsioux

Specialist
Oct 22, 2019
357
Is it legal to assist a suicide in switzerland if you are not a doctor? As in, witnessing it, being with someone and not stopping it?
Yes, assisted suicide in legal in Switzerland provided that the person who wants to die possesses "decision-making" capacity, has control over his or her death (must be able to drink the Nembutal or activate the IV), and the motives of those assisting are not selfish.

There are a few minor differences between Dignitas and Pegasos (I can personally attest that a better command of English is one) but the major difference is that Dignitas requires the person seeking assistance be suffering from "an illness which will lead inevitably to death, unendurable pain or an unendurable disability". Pegasos does not have this requirement.

I am currently communicating with Pegasos.
 
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c824767

Specialist
Sep 2, 2019
358
Yes, assisted suicide in legal in Switzerland provided that the person who wants to die possesses "decision-making" capacity, has control over his or her death (must be able to drink the Nembutal or activate the IV), and the motives of those assisting are not selfish.

There are a few minor differences between Dignitas and Pegasos (I can personally attest that a better command of English is one) but the major difference is that Dignitas requires the person seeking assistance be suffering from "an illness which will lead inevitably to death, unendurable pain or an unendurable disability". Pegasos does not have this requirement.

I am currently communicating with Pegasos.
I think it is not legal to take someone to Switzerland from a country where non-medical personnel are assisting a suicide is illegal. Cases from the UK and one from Italy have shown that prosecutors are lenient on these helpers when they return to their jurisdiction.
 
fightingsioux

fightingsioux

Specialist
Oct 22, 2019
357
I think it is not legal to take someone to Switzerland from a country where non-medical personnel are assisting a suicide is illegal. Cases from the UK and one from Italy have shown that prosecutors are lenient on these helpers when they return to their jurisdiction.
I had to read your post a few times to make sure that I understood it correctly, and I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding you.

It is legal for a U.S. citizen--from any state--to go to Switzerland for assisted dying.

I'm not as familiar with the situation in European countries, but I believe it is also legal.
 
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c824767

Specialist
Sep 2, 2019
358
I'm afraid that I don't understand what you're saying. Would you mind restating that? Thanks!
In most jurisdictions if not in all jurisdictions it is illegal to assist someone to commit suicide, talk them into it, encourage them etc. You have to discourage them and try to get them to live if they ask you what to do. However despite the prohibition on assisted dying in the UK, UK citizens can and do travel to Dignitas' clinics in Switzerland in order to access assisted suicide. In addition to the 'assistance' provided by Dignitas' volunteers, people who travel to Switzerland in order to die are almost always also 'assisted' by friends of family in the UK, who might book an airline ticket or accompany them. They are also nearly always 'assisted' by healthcare professionals who will be asked to prepare a copy of their medical notes for them to take with them to Zurich. Despite assisted suicide being a criminal offence in the UK – punishable by up to 14 years in prison – none of their doctors, relatives or partners has been prosecuted as a result of providing assistance to people who have died in Dignitas clinics. And this just came in from Italy: https://www.theguardian.com/society...a-suicide-is-not-always-a-rules-italian-court
 
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fightingsioux

fightingsioux

Specialist
Oct 22, 2019
357
In most jurisdictions if not in all jurisdictions it is illegal to assist someone to commit suicide, talk them into it, encourage them etc. You have to discourage them and try to get them to live if they ask you what to do. However despite the prohibition on assisted dying in the UK, UK citizens can and do travel to Dignitas' clinics in Switzerland in order to access assisted suicide. In addition to the 'assistance' provided by Dignitas' volunteers, people who travel to Switzerland in order to die are almost always also 'assisted' by friends of family in the UK, who might book an airline ticket or accompany them. They are also nearly always 'assisted' by healthcare professionals who will be asked to prepare a copy of their medical notes for them to take with them to Zurich. Despite assisted suicide being a criminal offence in the UK – punishable by up to 14 years in prison – none of their doctors, relatives or partners has been prosecuted as a result of providing assistance to people who have died in Dignitas clinics. And this just came in from Italy: https://www.theguardian.com/society...a-suicide-is-not-always-a-rules-italian-court
We crossed posts, I apologize. Yes, what you're saying is correct. I mistakenly thought you were suggesting that it was illegal for U.S. citizens to go to Switzerland for assisted dying. My bad! :wink:


EDIT: And, I think you bring up a great point in the gist of your post. The term "assistance" is itself a difficult one to define/quantify/pin down. It can mean many things.
 
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c824767

Specialist
Sep 2, 2019
358
We crossed posts, I apologize. Yes, what you're saying is correct. I mistakenly thought you were suggesting that it was illegal for U.S. citizens to go to Switzerland for assisted dying. My bad! :wink:
I want to create a non profit organization for people who have no one to accompany them and who need some fundraising to be able to afford it.
 
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fightingsioux

fightingsioux

Specialist
Oct 22, 2019
357
I want to create a non profit organization for people who have no one to accompany them and who need some fundraising to be able to afford it.
That is indeed a noble and very necessary cause, I wish you the best of luck.

I've been an active and vocal proponent of legalizing assisted dying in every state in the U.S., not just the current handful. I also feel that the current restrictions--essentially that one must be suffering from a terminal illness--are unduly restrictive. Things are better than they were 50 years ago, but we've got a long way to go.
 
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c824767

Specialist
Sep 2, 2019
358
That is indeed a noble and very necessary cause, I wish you the best of luck.

I've been an active and vocal proponent of legalizing assisted dying in every state in the U.S., not just the current handful. I also feel that the current restrictions--essentially that one must be suffering from a terminal illness--are unduly restrictive. Things are better than they were 50 years ago, but we've got a long way to go.
I am thinking, if all the other things are getting worse, planet health, middle classers (especially on pensions) heading for poverty due to increased cost of living, more violence, more rape, more drug users, our need to die only increases exponentially to be able to put an end to a torturous existence in a place where everyone is censored, tortured, impoverished unless you are a crook.
 
fightingsioux

fightingsioux

Specialist
Oct 22, 2019
357
I am thinking, if all the other things are getting worse, planet health, middle classers (especially on pensions) heading for poverty due to increased cost of living, more violence, more rape, more drug users, our need to die only increases exponentially to be able to put an end to a torturous existence in a place where everyone is censored, tortured, impoverished unless you are a crook.
I'm 71, have lived an OK life, find myself alone with a serious medical condition that will eventually leave me immobile. I've been an right-to-die supporter for over 50 years, and strongly agree with Dr. Philip Nitschke and Exit International's philosophy that "every adult of sound mind has the right to implement plans for the end of their life so that their death is reliable, peaceful and at a time of their choosing." (Quoted from their website.)

Everyone has their own opinions on just about everything! The above is my opinion on the issue of suicide, just my opinion. If other people feel differently, they have that right. As an artist and a teacher and an activist, I have defended that right my whole life.

My opinion is that the world is not a place where everyone is censored, tortured or impoverished. There is love and truth and beauty to be found, but perhaps it must be fought for, these days more than ever. If I was healthy I'd stick around! :sunglasses:

Also, just in my humble little opinion, if a teenager fails a history test or breaks-up with their boyfriend/girlfriend, that may be agonizingly troubling to that person in the short run but NOT a reason to commit suicide! From what I've seen on this forum, almost everyone agrees and usually--with compassion--tries to do a bit of gentle counseling. That's a great thing about this site that I think many media-critics don't understand.

I love your idea of a non-profit to help people, it's exactly what we need. Hope you can pull it off!
 
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c824767

Specialist
Sep 2, 2019
358
I'm 71, have lived an OK life, find myself alone with a serious medical condition that will eventually leave me immobile. I've been an right-to-die supporter for over 50 years, and strongly agree with Dr. Philip Nitschke and Exit International's philosophy that "every adult of sound mind has the right to implement plans for the end of their life so that their death is reliable, peaceful and at a time of their choosing." (Quoted from their website.)

Everyone has their own opinions on just about everything! The above is my opinion on the issue of suicide, just my opinion. If other people feel differently, they have that right. As an artist and a teacher and an activist, I have defended that right my whole life.

My opinion is that the world is not a place where everyone is censored, tortured or impoverished. There is love and truth and beauty to be found, but perhaps it must be fought for, these days more than ever. If I was healthy I'd stick around! :sunglasses:

Also, just in my humble little opinion, if a teenager fails a history test or breaks-up with their boyfriend/girlfriend, that may be agonizingly troubling to that person in the short run but NOT a reason to commit suicide! From what I've seen on this forum, almost everyone agrees and usually--with compassion--tries to do a bit of gentle counseling. That's a great thing about this site that I think many media-critics don't understand.

I love your idea of a non-profit to help people, it's exactly what we need. Hope you can pull it off!
The way mental illness is diagnosed, is not advanced enough to determine whether or not the patient will get better.
If and when a person goes years without improvement/with a deteriorating case of mental illness, I feel they should be allowed to access physician assisted death.

Just because we cannot determine the exact thoughts that someone else thinks and the kind of hurt these thoughts cause them, does not mean these thoughts are "too dark to be real and too fleeting to be taken seriously."

Many of us mentally ill people are dismissed by clinicians and our circle of loved ones, as someone who just needs some "mindfulness", a euphemism as far as I am concerned, for entering the mental rape culture of rampant unwarranted optimism.

Other than that, they tell us we are "fine" and "healthy", especially when we stop revealing our innermost thoughts because we feel we are repeating ourselves an they just get anxious themselves and or put u into the psych ward for a while. We have no voice. No one literally no one takes our negative thoughts seriously.

The best we can get is: These thoughts are not helpful to you, change your thoughts and you will be happy. So dismissive. Even people who have agonizing thoughts for a while (short run), do not want to listen and become empathetic enough to do something.

I am thinking of people with catastrophic and sudden destruction of a loveable life, say, Joe Biden when his wife and daughter died in a car accident. He admitted to being temporarily suicidal and finally understanding why a rational being would contemplate suicide. There is a way to keep Sleepy Joe busy. Help people who feel like that day-in day-out to end it !

There is one single reason why I want to become an assisted dying activist. For me, there is nothing else that interests me. After 2 failed attempts this year, and 3 years of upheaval after divorcing a very rich man (we were married 20 years) who went to court to deny me a settlement (I got a little bit of money and yes I too can afford Pegasos), there is nothing else that interests me at all.

Another thing about the past 50 years. In this timeframe, we have gone from wanting to implement as many social nets as possible and full employment (in the US and UK) to a 180 degree turn around to an age of "mental rape culture" of rampant capitalism that does NOT stop when it comes to drug dealing, delivering weapons to bad hombres, polluting nature and limiting and astronomically inflating the prices of resources (i.e. water) that we all need to keep households of all levels of society going, rich, poor and in between (the in between thinning out as we speak). As a consequence of this planetary negation of human needs, and emphasizing the idea that a wealthy elite will keep everyone else in the clover via the nefarious and elusive "Trickle Down Effect". There is no trickle down effect. Trillions of dollars are in tax havens, the rich are refusing to pay taxes. (My ex is one of those) There is more war, more hunger, more child labour every year.
I am 56 and I know that I have idly stood by during those past 50 years, while you have been supporting assisted death, doing art and teaching and so on, while this whole planet has been raped by corrupt illegal inhumane capitalism that has hijacked most avenues that could prosecute them,using crooked lawyers and other corporate entities creating financial shelters for the wealthy. (and in some countries corruption and human rights violations disguised as communism,not really any better than a capitalist "democracy" where you can vote for a corrupt candidate but there is no box on the voting slip to say that all candidates are corrupt which is why the voter is not voting for them). Beauty to be in the eye of the beholder or the person that enjoys the privilege to be able to abuse and exploit others, to maintain that everyone cannot be helped to be financially secure because "that is unaffordable" (for whom?people spend 15.5 billion dollars of plastic surgery in the US every year) It think that is all disgusting...
 
fightingsioux

fightingsioux

Specialist
Oct 22, 2019
357
The way mental illness is diagnosed, is not advanced enough to determine whether or not the patient will get better.
If and when a person goes years without improvement/with a deteriorating case of mental illness, I feel they should be allowed to access physician assisted death.

Just because we cannot determine the exact thoughts that someone else thinks and the kind of hurt these thoughts cause them, does not mean these thoughts are "too dark to be real and too fleeting to be taken seriously."

Many of us mentally ill people are dismissed by clinicians and our circle of loved ones, as someone who just needs some "mindfulness", a euphemism as far as I am concerned, for entering the mental rape culture of rampant unwarranted optimism.

Other than that, they tell us we are "fine" and "healthy", especially when we stop revealing our innermost thoughts because we feel we are repeating ourselves an they just get anxious themselves and or put u into the psych ward for a while. We have no voice. No one literally no one takes our negative thoughts seriously.

The best we can get is: These thoughts are not helpful to you, change your thoughts and you will be happy. So dismissive. Even people who have agonizing thoughts for a while (short run), do not want to listen and become empathetic enough to do something.

I am thinking of people with catastrophic and sudden destruction of a loveable life, say, Joe Biden when his wife and daughter died in a car accident. He admitted to being temporarily suicidal and finally understanding why a rational being would contemplate suicide. There is a way to keep Sleepy Joe busy. Help people who feel like that day-in day-out to end it !

There is one single reason why I want to become an assisted dying activist. For me, there is nothing else that interests me. After 2 failed attempts this year, and 3 years of upheaval after divorcing a very rich man (we were married 20 years) who went to court to deny me a settlement (I got a little bit of money and yes I too can afford Pegasos), there is nothing else that interests me at all.

Another thing about the past 50 years. In this timeframe, we have gone from wanting to implement as many social nets as possible and full employment (in the US and UK) to a 180 degree turn around to an age of "mental rape culture" of rampant capitalism that does NOT stop when it comes to drug dealing, delivering weapons to bad hombres, polluting nature and limiting and astronomically inflating the prices of resources (i.e. water) that we all need to keep households of all levels of society going, rich, poor and in between (the in between thinning out as we speak). As a consequence of this planetary negation of human needs, and emphasizing the idea that a wealthy elite will keep everyone else in the clover via the nefarious and elusive "Trickle Down Effect". There is no trickle down effect. Trillions of dollars are in tax havens, the rich are refusing to pay taxes. (My ex is one of those) There is more war, more hunger, more child labour every year.
I am 56 and I know that I have idly stood by during those past 50 years, while you have been supporting assisted death, doing art and teaching and so on, while this whole planet has been raped by corrupt illegal inhumane capitalism that has hijacked most avenues that could prosecute them,using crooked lawyers and other corporate entities creating financial shelters for the wealthy. (and in some countries corruption and human rights violations disguised as communism,not really any better than a capitalist "democracy" where you can vote for a corrupt candidate but there is no box on the voting slip to say that all candidates are corrupt which is why the voter is not voting for them). Beauty to be in the eye of the beholder or the person that enjoys the privilege to be able to abuse and exploit others, to maintain that everyone cannot be helped to be financially secure because "that is unaffordable" (for whom?people spend 15.5 billion dollars of plastic surgery in the US every year) It think that is all disgusting...
We all do the best we can.

Gandhi said that anger is the enemy of correct understanding. Breathe, try to let it go.

My thoughts and hopes and best wishes go out to you.
 
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