SWB Method

[Nightthere]

So, has there been any confirmed CTB using the Shallow Water Blackout method? It sounds interesting to me, although I don't know if it's effective. Maybe I'll try something.

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

Typically with methods such as this, they're too good to be true. Could you make it work, in theory? Sure. But the amount of people who come back frustrated or have to continually update threads saying "oh i tried this, didn't work. gonna try something else to get it to work" or "got close this time, but failed" and all that sort of speaks to how unreliable these methods are (partial hanging is another method of this sort). The stars have to align, and they're not likely to.

But, of course, like with partial, there's little to lose in trying except your time and finite motivation to CTB. I know I absolutely drained all of my willpower trying to get partial to work, to no avail.

 

[Nightthere]

Typically with methods such as this, they're too good to be true. Could you make it work, in theory? Sure. But the amount of people who come back frustrated or have to continually update threads saying "oh i tried this, didn't work. gonna try something else to get it to work" or "got close this time, but failed" and all that sort of speaks to how unreliable these methods are (partial hanging is another method of this sort). The stars have to align, and they're not likely to.

But, of course, like with partial, there's little to lose in trying except your time and finite motivation to CTB. I know I absolutely drained all of my willpower trying to get partial to work, to no avail.

If I try to faint, Is there any chance of having any side effects due to the forced fainting or something? My real fear would be to faint underwater and wake up, have some after-effect... I think it's better not to try.

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

If I try to faint, Is there any chance of having any side effects due to the forced fainting or something? My real fear would be to faint underwater and wake up, have some after-effect...

Well, I can't think of any dangers of doing this, but I'm not a medical professional and I'm only aware of the medical effects of the methods I've researched. But the way SWB's fainting method works doesn't appear to cause any brain damage if done outside of water. You basically eliminate all the CO2 from your bloodstream by hyperventilating, and then while holding your breath, your oxygen supply runs out before the amount of CO2 buildup activates your hypercapnic response, thus you pass out. But as soon as you pass out, your body will begin breathing again and you wake up shortly after, so no brain cell damage there. But this is extremely difficult to pull off, so if you're gonna be trying it in water for real, you're likely gonna fail over and over again. I recall a guy hyperventilating for up to 10 minutes (according to him) and getting underwater, only for him to never lose consciousness before he needed to take a breath. He tried this numerous times, to no avail. If you do manage to pass out underwater, depending on how much water you're submerged in, you have no way of knowing what your body will do while you're unconscious and you may resurface your face and get some air in. It's all very much "in theory" rather than anything concrete and surefire. This is why I suggest not doing it, similar to partial hanging. It'll likely only end up in frustration and wasted effort.

I think it's better not to try.

I think so as well. Sorry you got your hopes up on this method. Have you checked the Suicide Resource Compilation? https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/suicide-resource-compilation.3/

 

[Nightthere]

That's exactly what I thought... nonsense. I'll have to look for another method... thanks!

 

[kkamasal]

Well, I can't think of any dangers of doing this, but I'm not a medical professional and I'm only aware of the medical effects of the methods I've researched. But the way SWB's fainting method works doesn't appear to cause any brain damage if done outside of water. You basically eliminate all the CO2 from your bloodstream by hyperventilating, and then while holding your breath, your oxygen supply runs out before the amount of CO2 buildup activates your hypercapnic response, thus you pass out. But as soon as you pass out, your body will begin breathing again and you wake up shortly after, so no brain cell damage there. But this is extremely difficult to pull off, so if you're gonna be trying it in water for real, you're likely gonna fail over and over again. I recall a guy hyperventilating for up to 10 minutes (according to him) and getting underwater, only for him to never lose consciousness before he needed to take a breath. He tried this numerous times, to no avail. If you do manage to pass out underwater, depending on how much water you're submerged in, you have no way of knowing what your body will do while you're unconscious and you may resurface your face and get some air in. It's all very much "in theory" rather than anything concrete and surefire. This is why I suggest not doing it, similar to partial hanging. It'll likely only end up in frustration and wasted effort.

I think so as well. Sorry you got your hopes up on this method. Have you checked the Suicide Resource Compilation? https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/suicide-resource-compilation.3/

i don't have guns or N.SN in our country Would SWB be a bad way? May I ask what you choose?.

I'm not sure I'll get a gun or anything even if I go abroad

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

i don't have guns or N.SN in our country Would SWB be a bad way? May I ask what you choose?.

I'm not sure I'll get a gun or anything even if I go abroad

It wouldn't necessarily be a bad way, just not reliable and it's risky imo. I cannot suggest you a method, as that is against the rules. And since I'm not from your country, I have no idea what I'd use in your situation. You've checked out the suicide resource comp right?

Suicide Resource Compilation

All the links to threads, videos, audio, downloads, and information found here are being made available only for educational purposes, and have been shared by users; we cannot assure the accuracy of the data. This means the way you use this data is fully your responsibility, that you need to...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[thekulprit]

Why is this method risky?

 

[willitpass]

Why is this method risky?

Because it has a very high survival rate but is still an attempt at drowning. My biggest concern would be someone starting to breathe while still underwater and aspirating before coming back up to the surface. The most common outcome in the method is people sitting themselves up out of the water while unconscious thanks to unconscious SI. I don't know how common it is for people to get hurt when attempting this, but I can see many potential risks, such as aspiration, if you're in a bathtub possibly hitting your head on something. If you do start to succeed but someone intervenes you risk hypoxic brain injury. Overall I'd imagine this is pretty similar to partial hanging, where the majority of the people fail without major consequence, but the risk is very much still there.

 

[thekulprit]

Thanks for detailed response

 

[Intoxicated]

The most common outcome in the method is people sitting themselves up out of the water while unconscious thanks to unconscious SI.

Unconscious SI? Wow, that must be a new word in the med science
What else can it do besides moving the body out of water? Can unconscious people call 911 or maybe drive a car straight to the nearest hospital under the influence of unconscious SI? Maybe you could share some stories about such amazing things, this would be a very interesting reading )))

 

[willitpass]

Unconscious SI? Wow, that must be a new word in the med science
What else can it do besides moving the body out of water? Can unconscious people call 911 or maybe drive a car straight to the nearest hospital under the influence of unconscious SI? Maybe you could share some stories about such amazing things, this would be a very interesting reading )))

Unconcious SI is a very real thing. It is your body fighting to keep you alive despite your efforts to kill yourself. It is why many people fail partial. Because the body will stand up to relieve pressure on the rope despite you being unconcious. It is why plastic bag asphyxiation often fails and requires the use of drugs to be successful, because your body will tear the bag off while unconscious. I myself survived partial when I was 13 because every time I would pass out I would wake up standing and gasping for air. No, it's not a conscious decision to call 911 or drive to the hospital, hence why it is called "unconscious", but it is still survival instinct.

 

[Intoxicated]

Unconcious SI is a very real thing. It is your body fighting to keep you alive despite your efforts to kill yourself.

Is that supported by any video materials or scientific articles?

It is why many people fail partial. Because the body will stand up to relieve pressure on the rope despite you being unconcious. It is why plastic bag asphyxiation often fails and requires the use of drugs to be successful, because your body will tear the bag off while unconscious. I myself survived partial when I was 13 because every time I would pass out I would wake up standing and gasping for air.

Posters over internet may claim anything. SI seems to be a very convenient instrument in anti-suicide propaganda, since average people vaguely understand how much human's self-preservation mechanisms can actually do, so pro-lifers can easily manipulate them with fake stories that couldn't happen in reality.

 

[maniac116]

Is it possible to, yes.
Is it probably, no.
Way to many variables to be a reliable method.
I worked at a state hospital & had patients who were drowning victims. They were complete vegetables, unable to speak on walk that relied completely on others for care & "living" trapped in a useless body. Please reconsider!
I'm sorry your life has brought you to this point & hope that in the end you find a place of unconditional love & peace

 

[Intoxicated]

Is it possible to, yes.
Is it probably, no.

The probability of success depends on the particular technique. Possible variants of SWB include causing blackout by means of gas asphyxiation (with difluoroethane or other gas suitable for inhalations and displacing oxygen from the lungs) followed by drowning. Using weights should prevent floating.

I worked at a state hospital & had patients who were drowning victims. They were complete vegetables, unable to speak on walk that relied completely on others for care & "living" trapped in a useless body.

Avoiding any resuscitation should be a top priority when planning CTB.

 

[willitpass]

Is that supported by any video materials or scientific articles?

Posters over internet may claim anything. SI seems to be a very convenient instrument in anti-suicide propaganda, since average people vaguely understand how much human's self-preservation mechanisms can actually do, so pro-lifers can easily manipulate them with fake stories that couldn't happen in reality.

That's be quite the propaganda program for thousands of people throughout the history of suicide forums on the internet (this is not the first one) to say that very similar things have happened with partial and SWB attempts causing them to survive. Thousands of pro-lifers come on to suicide forums, some for years at a time, just to tell you that two specific methods have a high probability of surviving despite achieving unconsciousness. If you want to believe that then that's on you.

 

[Intoxicated]

That's be quite the propaganda program for thousands of people throughout the history of suicide forums on the internet (this is not the first one) to say that very similar things have happened with partial and SWB attempts causing them to survive.

I can't recall so many SWB attempts described on this forum. People mostly complain about inability to reach unconsciousness before the urge to breathe becomes unbearable rather than about surviving after fainting. There was a couple of persons who reported regaining consciousness after a blackout achieved with gas asphyxiation, and I asked them for the details. Their responses were rather vague, so I don't consider their stories as a serious evidence of anything.

As for partial hanging, regaining consciousness was indeed described frequently. Theoretically, waking up can be caused by cerebral vasodilation due to a delayed reaction on low O2 and high CO2 levels in the blood. But this effect has nothing to do with instincts, it's rather a specific physiological compensation mechanism which obviously can maintain consciousness only until the O2 level reaches another critical threshold. Eventually the person should become stuporous with no chances to become conscious unless the O2 level increases back.

 

[willitpass]

I can't recall so many SWB attempts described on this forum. People mostly complain about inability to reach unconsciousness before the urge to breathe becomes unbearable rather than about surviving after fainting. There was a couple of persons who reported regaining consciousness after a blackout achieved with gas asphyxiation, and I asked them for the details. Their responses were rather vague, so I don't consider their stories as a serious evidence of anything.

As for partial hanging, regaining consciousness was indeed described frequently. Theoretically, waking up can be caused by cerebral vasodilation due to a delayed reaction on low O2 and high CO2 levels in the blood. But this effect has nothing to do with instincts, it's rather a specific physiological compensation mechanism which obviously can maintain consciousness only until the O2 level reaches another critical threshold. Eventually the person should become stuporous with no chances to become conscious unless the O2 level increases back.

I work in healthcare, I'm aware of the physiology behind things. But ultimately, in lay man's terms, it's is survival instinct: your body doing anything it can to survive because that is everyone's instinct. Most people here don't work in healthcare, sitting there and explaining the physiology behind everything would just leave more people confused and irritated and off to look elsewhere. Unconscious SI makes a hell of a lot more sense to people on here as to why things don't work.

 

[ladylazarus4]

Posters over internet may claim anything. SI seems to be a very convenient instrument in anti-suicide propaganda, since average people vaguely understand how much human's self-preservation mechanisms can actually do, so pro-lifers can easily manipulate them with fake stories that couldn't happen in reality.

no need to be snarky. SI is very real. Just ask a lot of the people here who have attempted. The body will thrash around in the water or if the head is in a plastic bag to get air. Survival instinct is why you throw up SN. Is that conscious? Obviously not.

 

[Intoxicated]

But ultimately, in lay man's terms, it's is survival instinct: your body doing anything it can to survive because that is everyone's instinct.

If the body really did anything it can to survive, it would completely suppress motivation to die in the first place instead of pushing towards suicide by escalation of shitty feelings and then rescue. Obviously, self-preservation mechanisms are rather imperfect.

Unconscious SI makes a hell of a lot more sense to people on here as to why things don't work.

Unlike reflexes, instincts cannot be unconscious.

A reflex is defined as a physiological reaction in a closed, mechanic stimulus-response system called a reflex arc. The reaction is automatic and does not involve the cerebrum. The word reflex is often used to describe reactions which do not fit the strict definition of a reflex, usually because they are immediate and unintentional. However, these characteristics are not enough to define a reaction as a reflex. In this essay, Moshe Menasheof defines instinct, a reaction which, like reflex, can be immediate and involuntary, but unlike it is processed in the cerebrum. That is, an instinct is a reaction which originates in awareness. The instinctive reaction is only triggered when awareness identifies something to trigger it.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/366672575_Reflex_and_Instinct-_A_distinction_between_a_reflex_which_is_an_automatic_response_and_an_instinct_which_is_an_autonomous_response

Instincts have an origin unquestionably similar to that of reflexes. They represent structurally reformed pathways in the nervous system, and stand functionally for effective inherited coordinations made in response to environmental demands. It is, perhaps, impossible to draw any absolutely sharp line between instincts and reflexes, although many principles of demarcation have been proposed. On the whole, the most fertile and suggestive working distinction seems to be found in the presence or absence of some relatively definite end dominating a series of acts. If the motor activity is simple, and is discharged in response to some objectively present stimulus, without conscious guidance, it will be safe to call the act a reflex. Moreover, some reflex acts are essentially unconscious, whereas instincts, in the higher animals at all events, appear always to involve consciousness. Instincts accordingly depend more largely than reflexes upon the operations of the higher brain centres. If the activity involves a number of acts, each one of which, considered singly and alone, is relatively useless, but all of which taken together lead up to some adaptive consequence, such as the building of a nest, the feeding of young, etc., it will be safe to call the action instinctive.

James Rowland Angell: Psychology: Chapter 15: Reflex Action and Instinct

The reason why people here keep mentioning SI constantly is because this became a local fashion and most people just tend to blindly follow common trends without fact checking and analyzing their situation in depth.

no need to be snarky. SI is very real.

SI is a vague notion that doesn't explain anything. On one hand, its use is simply incorrect when referencing self-preservation mechanisms in general; on the other hand, it's way too abstract for describing particular drives that lead to abortion of suicide attempts.

Just ask a lot of the people here who have attempted. The body will thrash around in the water

I'm more inclined to trust well-known resources that describe drowning prevention than rumors spread by anonymous bots from the internet. Drowning often happens silently, so people sometimes can't even recognize a process of drowning that happens right in front of them.

https://www.kidspot.com.au/parenting/real-life/reader-stories/id-never-considered-that-my-child-could-drown-right-in-front-of-people/news-story/428ffeeee0cb84bb3076c3d9ea2a34b2

https://ndpa.org/drowning-prevention-education-programs-and-initiatives/

Survival instinct is why you throw up SN. Is that conscious? Obviously not.

Vomiting is a reflex rather than an instinct. Self-preservation would be a more appropriate abstract term in this context.