Supposedly suicide rates have been declining in japan

[millefeui]

I am talking about Japan, in particular, because it used to be on the top of the chart (either #1 or close) of the suicide chart for years, but it seems to have declined quite a bit.

The reasons for the high suicide rates made sense to me.

Sure, it is an advanced country, but it is also very small and yet very populated. Everything is super competitive. Sure, crime rates aren't remotely as high as in many, many, many other countries, but certain kind of crimes are just shrugged off (like sexual abuse. Japan's society still isn't the best for women, let alone LGBT people. My gosh, it must be hard being gay, lesbian, bi, trans, etc in countries like Japan.

Still, if I recall correctly, the biggest reason for the suicide rates was the culture of the country. All that talk about honoring your family, ancestors and stuff. Supposedly a big portion of the suicides in Japan are from salary men who lose their jobs and can't seem to find other in such a competitive country. Not having a job is a dishonor, just like (supposedly) a lady having sex before marriage, and stuff like that.

But the culture still is the same, so I wonder what changed. The country was in decline because of the high suicide rates plus numerous NEETs and hikikomoris doing nothing and naturally, not reproducing and keeping the country alive (a country with more old people than young).

It puzzles me.

I am descendant of Japanese, but I don't have contact with anyone from there, so I can't even ask the opinion of someone who lives there.

Extra question: I wonder why Japan's cousin, South Korea, never faced such high suicide rates. It is also a very small country, and there is a lot of overlapping between the cultures. Hmm...

 

[Life sucks]

I think more foreigners in Japan could be a factor. Also the less birth rate. Btw both of them are still high globally although not high as before.

Asian cultures while looks the same, they are very different and when someone knows more about them they'll notice the difference. They share many stuff (mostly because of Chinese origin) but I think each one is unique. The languages also are unique and while sharing some similarities because of Chinese vocabulary or historical influences, the core is different. So I think the reasons for suicide between the two are culturally different but the similarity is the system.


The reason for suicide isn't limited for that. Japan is an advanced country and they implement the system better than everyone else including the west but that comes at a high cost. I think the corporate culture in Japan plays a role.

I've seen how the corporate works in anime and games field for example and it sucks really. It can be destructive to the person himself and the industry and thats the fault of capitalism. (maybe not related topic to suicide but it shows how harsh and bad it is, Hideo Kojima case for example). What I'm trying to say is people suffer and are not robots and in Japan its not different than the world (despite the culture, workaholics..etc), at the end, they are humans no matter what.

I'm a fan of Japanese music and noticed many musicians died because of health problems while having depression.. etc or committed suicide. Noteworthy thing is Japan has a high rate of musicians and bands, I don't know why and maybe this is related.

Generally, all humans including Japanese are the same. They have emotions and they are not robots. They suffer and the system is bad and no matter how much the system is advanced, the origin is bad.

I really love Japan but the system still sucks for everyone and life sucks no matter where are you

 

[OfficerK]

South Korea actually has a significantly higher suicide rate at 24.1/100k, compared to 15.4 in Japan.

 

[millefeui]

I think more foreigners in Japan could be a factor. Also the less birth rate. Btw both of them are still high globally although not high as before.

Asian cultures while looks the same, they are very different and when someone knows more about them they'll notice the difference. They share many stuff (mostly because of Chinese origin) but I think each one is unique. The languages also are unique and while sharing some similarities because of Chinese vocabulary or historical influences, the core is different. So I think the reasons for suicide between the two are culturally different but the similarity is the system.

The reason for suicide isn't limited for that. Japan is an advanced country and they implement the system better than everyone else including the west but that comes at a high cost. I think the corporate culture in Japan plays a role.

I've seen how the corporate works in anime and games field for example and it sucks really. It can be destructive to the person himself and the industry and thats the fault of capitalism. (maybe not related topic to suicide but it shows how harsh and bad it is, Hideo Kojima case for example). What I'm trying to say is people suffer and are not robots and in Japan its not different than the world (despite the culture, workaholics..etc), at the end, they are humans no matter what.

I'm a fan of Japanese music and noticed many musicians died because of health problems while having depression.. etc or committed suicide. Noteworthy thing is Japan has a high rate of musicians and bands, I don't know why and maybe this is related.

Generally, all humans including Japanese are the same. They have emotions and they are not robots. They suffer and the system is bad and no matter how much the system is advanced, the origin is bad.

I really love Japan but the system still sucks for everyone and life sucks no matter where are you

Thanks for the throughout response. I will address some points you raised.

On Asian cultures, I am aware of that. I know a few things about Japanese, South Korean and Chinese cultures. South Korea and China not so much, as I know the countries mostly from watching dramas (can I just mention how beautiful South Korea is?), but Japan has been part of my life for as far as I remember, both because I am descendant (though I don't have any ties with anyone from Japan) and because of anime, games and stuff. The cultures share similarities, but from again, watching dramas, it is easy to notice some traditions aren't as present in modern life in South Korea like in Japan, but they still exist (I only ever saw older people paying attention to old costumes). Maybe South Korea is just a tad more modern, but I can't speak much about it without further research.

I do love the languages. Japanese, again, is the one I am most familiar with. I know quite a bit of it. South Korea sounds really funny to me at times, but I find some terms such as ahjussi, ahjumma, oppa, unni, hyung, etc very charming. As for Chinese, I only know "nihao", but I love the sound of the language. It is so pleasing.

Yeah, that is true about Japanese musicians. Suicides by Asian musicians and actors/actresses are not uncommon. For some musicians, such as pop idols, it is not hard to imagine why they would commit suicide. The industry is rotten and abusive towards young female idols. I really doubt some of them only make those sexy idol videos... I wouldn't be surprised if the hole was a lot deeper than that. I do wonder why someone like hide from X-Japan killed himself, for example, but I am sure he had his reasons.

By the way, what about Kojima?

 

[millefeui]

South Korea actually has a significantly higher suicide rate at 24.1/100k, compared to 15.4 in Japan.

Seems like I got my data wrong. Likely I have the numbers from years ago still ingrained in my mind.

 

[Life sucks]

Thanks for the throughout response. I will address some points you raised.

On Asian cultures, I am aware of that. I know a few things about Japanese, South Korean and Chinese cultures. South Korea and China not so much, as I know the countries mostly from watching dramas (can I just mention how beautiful South Korea is?), but Japan has been part of my life for as far as I remember, both because I am descendant (though I don't have any ties with anyone from Japan) and because of anime, games and stuff. The cultures share similarities, but from again, watching dramas, it is easy to notice some traditions aren't as present in modern life in South Korea like in Japan, but they still exist (I only ever saw older people paying attention to old costumes). Maybe South Korea is just a tad more modern, but I can't speak much about it without further research.

I do love the languages. Japanese, again, is the one I am most familiar with. I know quite a bit of it. South Korea sounds really funny to me at times, but I find some terms such as ahjussi, ahjumma, oppa, unni, hyung, etc very charming. As for Chinese, I only know "nihao", but I love the sound of the language. It is so pleasing.

Yeah, that is true about Japanese musicians. Suicides by Asian musicians and actors/actresses are not uncommon. For some musicians, such as pop idols, it is not hard to imagine why they would commit suicide. The industry is rotten and abusive towards young female idols. I really doubt some of them only make those sexy idol videos... I wouldn't be surprised if the hole was a lot deeper than that. I do wonder why someone like hide from X-Japan killed himself, for example, but I am sure he had his reasons.

By the way, what about Kojima?

The thing about Asian cultures is being more distinct between each other than other parts of the world like the west or middle east comparatively. And Japan is super distinct because of the geographical locations and historical isolation.

I love Japanese language and I know some but I couldn't study too much because of my problems. It is very unique compared to Korean and Chinese. I do not know the latter but I read about linguistic differences. I really love the Japanese native vocabulary like anata, watashi but hate the Kanji-based vocabulary.

I think musicians want to express themselves more with music rather than the robotic and ugly life we do everyday. I've listened to many bands and its not uncommon to see that someone is depressed specially in the rock/metal genre. I think they have their own reasons like us and they want to talk about it using the language of music. Sometimes you can understand the feeling even if you don't know what they say.


About Kojima, its a dispute between him and Konami years ago. Some sources said they treat him very badly so he quit because laws for firing are hard. But whatever happened, it is just an example showing how the corporate culture works there and how corporations will deal with you no matter how much or how long you work. Corporations are bad everywhere in the world but in Japan it has its own unique badness which is related to culture I think.

 

[Lucas]

What I've understood, Japan as a country is really xenophobic and also closed society. Not many Japanese people speak English and that really shrinks the size of their world. Add the awful work culture and over population (so many people in such a small country). I'd imagine all the entertainment, video games and anime produced there are more of a coping mechanism and practice of escapism than anything else.

And I can understand why the school and work culture kills people. I can admit that I'm highly educated and has always been a person who studies and works hard. And that's part of the reason why I want to off myself. If you are a person who always wants to do his best and not just half-ass it, the bar for satisfactory always gets higher and higher, so does the dopamine reward. After I got my chronic health problems, I haven't been able to do my work or hobbies on the level I'm satisfied, so the reward is so tiny that it's not worth it anymore.

Yeah, some people might say that I'm too tough to myself, but sorry, that's how my brain works and I'm not gonna sell out my standards just because I am now hurt, I'd rather die. I know this is also the reason why top athletes kill themselves and this might also be the reason why so many Japanese people kill themselves (or those A grade students you hear from news). If your brain is taught the certain way your whole life and your culture also circles on it, you really cannot retrain your brain.

 

[millefeui]

I don't really see the issue with the "xenophobia". They prefer to keep their country and culture mostly closed to themselves, which is fine and admirable. It is not like they live in a huge country like the U.S., Brazil or whatever. Japan is really tiny.

 

[Tiburcio]

What I've understood, Japan as a country is really xenophobic and also closed society. Not many Japanese people speak English and that really shrinks the size of their world. Add the awful work culture and over population (so many people in such a small country). I'd imagine all the entertainment, video games and anime produced there are more of a coping mechanism and practice of escapism than anything else.

And I can understand why the school and work culture kills people. I can admit that I'm highly educated and has always been a person who studies and works hard. And that's part of the reason why I want to off myself. If you are a person who always wants to do his best and not just half-ass it, the bar for satisfactory always gets higher and higher, so does the dopamine reward. After I got my chronic health problems, I haven't been able to do my work or hobbies on the level I'm satisfied, so the reward is so tiny that it's not worth it anymore.

Yeah, some people might say that I'm too tough to myself, but sorry, that's how my brain works and I'm not gonna sell out my standards just because I am now hurt, I'd rather die. I know this is also the reason why top athletes kill themselves and this might also be the reason why so many Japanese people kill themselves (or those A grade students you hear from news). If your brain is taught the certain way your whole life and your culture also circles on it, you really cannot retrain your brain.

The work drains your life. Time used working is wasted time. Now add your life hours of work and privation of time for yourself and life will be hell. And even more if your country is overpopulated and competence is huge.

 

[azeton]

1 Sri Lanka 34
2 Guyana 30
3 Mongolia 28
4 Kazakhstan 27
5 Côte d'Ivoire 27
6 Suriname 26
7 Equatorial Guinea 26
8 Lithuania 26
9 Angola 25
10 South Korea 24
11 Sierra Leone 22
12 Bolivia 20
13 Central African Republic 19
14 Belarus 19
15 Poland 18
16 Zimbabwe 18
17 Russia 17
18 Swaziland 17
19 Cameroon 17
20 Latvia 17
21 Ukraine 16
22 Burkina Faso 16
23 Belgium 16
24 India 16
25 Hungary 15
26 Japan 15
27 Togo 15
28 Uruguay 15
29 North Korea 15

 

[JSRF]

I remember reading that the japanese government has put a lot of work into declining the suicide rate by funding programs for the unemployed, aswell as limit the max amount of overtime people are allowed to work etc.

 

[libbitour]

Well now it's increasing again

 

[lofticries]

As cut throat as Japan's society seems south Korea's scares me more. With the impossible beauty standards added into the high expectations to succeed.

No wonder it overtook Japan in the suicide ratings.

 

[waitingforrest]

What I've understood, Japan as a country is really xenophobic and also closed society. Not many Japanese people speak English and that really shrinks the size of their world. Add the awful work culture and over population (so many people in such a small country). I'd imagine all the entertainment, video games and anime produced there are more of a coping mechanism and practice of escapism than anything else.

And I can understand why the school and work culture kills people. I can admit that I'm highly educated and has always been a person who studies and works hard. And that's part of the reason why I want to off myself. If you are a person who always wants to do his best and not just half-ass it, the bar for satisfactory always gets higher and higher, so does the dopamine reward. After I got my chronic health problems, I haven't been able to do my work or hobbies on the level I'm satisfied, so the reward is so tiny that it's not worth it anymore.

Yeah, some people might say that I'm too tough to myself, but sorry, that's how my brain works and I'm not gonna sell out my standards just because I am now hurt, I'd rather die. I know this is also the reason why top athletes kill themselves and this might also be the reason why so many Japanese people kill themselves (or those A grade students you hear from news). If your brain is taught the certain way your whole life and your culture also circles on it, you really cannot retrain your brain.

Yes. Two words. Entrance exams.

(Can't speak for Asian countries in general, just my experiances.)

As well, also agreeing with work culture in tandiem. Work go home repeat until retirement. Till the point where you begin to question the point in life if all you do is work until you die. The parents you have always tried to please as a child are now dead, leaving you with a question of now what do I do. You have little to no friends because friends are distracting to work. You optimised everything in your life to increase productivity at the expense of your own health. But it is never enough.

Or go the shut in route/burnout route and get feelings of uselessness and being a disappointment. All while everyone asks why are you being so lazy when so and so is getting their fifth phd.

But I feel as if there is increased pressure to succeed at a young age. Kids grow up knowing how much their parents sacraficed to get to this point, parents want their children to have a better life than they did. Add long working hours and you get emotionally distant families and family members trying to cope with the stess alone in any way. Parents venting frustrations on kids because kids are easy targets. Kids feeling like a burden to their parents and everyone because they have nothing to contribute. There is also abusive unsupportive familiy members, which I doubt that there are any good intentions at all to help someone succeed. And also a bonus of mental illness not taken as serriously.

Of course every culture has this all in some forms. Maybe it's like a hydra, cut off one head and two more appear in it's place. Certian things being encouraged because it kept people sucessful'', like a feedback loop until it is normal.

There are jokes about strict asian tiger parents, but sometimes the joke hits too close to reality it becomes depressing.

 

[obafgkm]

Isn't there a subtle change in the culture as you described? The rise of NEETs and hikikomoris suggests that the younger generations are not as burdened by family honor as in the old way. They accept themselves as not being the breadwinners of the family. Instead the family plays the strong, supportive, and protective role as safe haven. The senior generations are still strong. Young generations willfully or not taking up the inferior roles might have helped reduce suicide.

It's interesting to watch in Japanese dramas, when people faced with difficulties they can go to stay in their family house in the country for a while. Children can spend the summer with their grannies in the country. The society seems to be fairly tightly knitted. Behind the superficial rigidity, the social structure can be quite flexible and resilient.