Discussion Suicide prevention is basically ego stroking

[TAW122]

From the original post, sadly this is the truth, but the recovery industry isn't the problem. There are a few people who genuninely care for others and support when asked without any care for virtue signalling.

Most don't though. A huge swathe of the population is attacked daily by society. The disabled, the sick, the poor. Stating and trying to counter that isn't virtue signalling. Many have lives where they don't want to see tomorrow, they may be helped and go on for a few more months. Maybe that time was OK for them, maybe it wasn't.

As the OP says, its all rooted in control. Most people need their 'tribe' and their 'us and them' and their 'isolate and destroy' to feel special. As such they're easily manipulated by the lowest humanity has to offer. Whether that be politicians or spiteful little scumbags and petty criminals.

I've been stalked, sabotaged and assaulted for years by these scum. When I ctb because of it is that murder?

That's true, especially the 'genuine' camp, or the people who truly do empathize and care for others. However, on that point though, it is still selfish of them to force their pro-life, life is good view onto the people who don't agree with them. I nor anyone ever consented to being born nor be alive, so I should decide when and how I choose to exit this world.

 

[been_there]

So tru, its all subjective and peple suit themselfevs. Cunts.

 

[TimeToDie]

Suicide prevention takes the right to life and twists it into a perverted duty to live.

 

[been_there]

Yeah, enough of the pretensing that yr stlaking is 'suicide preventiuon. Go fuk yourselves

 

[Theon]

I"m pro-choice but I also think it's a good thing that those resources are there. I think, especially for young people, the issues may be ones that seem permanent but won't last. Being bulled, same about being gay. I think in situations such as these, having someone to talk to can be helpful and give you enough hope that'll get you through the difficult period before things get better. Of course there are more long term deeper circumstances someone may be struggling with where there is really no hope. The folks doing the prevention need to be honest with themselves that telling them "it'll get better" is a lie and the person may well be better off taking their own life.

 

[TAW122]

I"m pro-choice but I also think it's a good thing that those resources are there. I think, especially for young people, the issues may be ones that seem permanent but won't last. Being bulled, same about being gay. I think in situations such as these, having someone to talk to can be helpful and give you enough hope that'll get you through the difficult period before things get better. Of course there are more long term deeper circumstances someone may be struggling with where there is really no hope. The folks doing the prevention need to be honest with themselves that telling them "it'll get better" is a lie and the person may well be better off taking their own life.

True, but it shouldn't be as widespread as it is nowadays with all the suicide prevention advertisements being on full blast everywhere. Also, they should strongly avoid involuntary commitment because that does more harm than good. There are quite a few people that would not want to open up about their issues, especially if it deals with suicide or wanting to die for fear of involuntary commitment or being locked up against their will just for speaking their mind. Until the threat of involuntary force, forced treatment, or being detained against one's will stops, then people will continue to mask their real pain and won't open up.

I do agree with the "it'll get better" statement being a lie and only serves as some sort of empty promise, empty platitude that does not but only serves to make the person spewing it feel better.

 

[Theon]

True, but it shouldn't be as widespread as it is nowadays with all the suicide prevention advertisements being on full blast everywhere. Also, they should strongly avoid involuntary commitment because that does more harm than good. There are quite a few people that would not want to open up about their issues, especially if it deals with suicide or wanting to die for fear of involuntary commitment or being locked up against their will just for speaking their mind. Until the threat of involuntary force, forced treatment, or being detained against one's will stops, then people will continue to mask their real pain and won't open up.

I do agree with the "it'll get better" statement being a lie and only serves as some sort of empty promise, empty platitude that does not but only serves to make the person spewing it feel better.

Yeah I think it's so bizarre the first things that come up when you google suicide are a bunch of ads. And speaking from experience being in a psych hospital for 72 hours I completely agree with you. I pseudo-attempted. It was not well thought out and wouldn't have worked. Still I opened up to a couple of people who encouraged me to tell my shrink. Next thing I know he's telling me to go to a hospital or he would call the cops on me. I went to a hospital where I then got transferred to the hellish psych hospital. It was technically "voluntary" but it definitely did not feel that way. In the end it was a scary, complete waste of time. They just kept pumping me full of meds and the only thing I got out of it was I was told I couldn't purchase a handgun for five years which sucks.

 

[Divine Trinity]

Stay with me on this one.

Look at how people are conditioned to repond to nazis (originals) and the world wars. The "enemy" are the people with wrong thoughts, what "our" side does is irrelevant. There is no negotiation, only confrontation, but it's ok, they're unpeople and we know non-human life is not subject to ethics (cause reasons?). We don't need to study or ask what lead to their (in this case, genuinely pathological) behavior, we just need to beat them into submission and be compensated for our "services".

Politics reflects how a society responds to a plethora of situations, and war is an intolerance to diversity. Whether it be nazis, communist, terrorism, human rights activist, the suicidal, etc. Beat them all into submission, for parents it's called "disciplining", for state forces it's "upholding the rule of law". You're "free" to behave as 1000 or so people deem acceptable.

Yet people have the audacity to call this a "civil" society. For savages, might makes right, and that's exactly how the world has operated..

 

[been_there]

war is an intolerance to diversity

you;re right, Its not a civil society. But war has fuck all tp do with diversity or identity politics.War is about perpetuating the status quo. War is abotu money, might, power, inflence and control. Thus as is ever was, Perpetuating ghe worst of humanity. Most people are scum. Thats why we're all fucked.

 

[stbdchick]

May I ask why you believe that suicide is something one must be completely certain about?

Cause there's no un-do.

I wouldn't say completely certain, as who is ever, about anything? But relatively certain.

 

[RM5998]

Cause there's no un-do.

I wouldn't say completely certain, as who is ever, about anything? But relatively certain.

I felt that the attitude you were adopting was from the point of view of trying to justify suicide to others, rather than to the self. That's something I find particularly irksome, because to me, it's missing the point. Despite all the efforts we take to help others connected to us deal with our deaths, the decision to CTB must ultimately be a selfish one.

Of course, the decision to CTB must be treated with considerable care, but to me, making a rash decision in the sphere is just as bad as making a rash decision about your academic performance in college. Neither can be undone, and IMO the second has more far-reaching effects.

If I've misinterpreted your intent, I apologize.

 

[Jessica5]

"What happens after you die."

"Eternal paradise better state imaginable forever."

"Wow, that sounds so much better than life."

"It truly is."

"How long do you want to live."

"Until the last possible second, no matter how much pain and suffering it brings me."

"But won't you be in a better state after death."

"You are fucked in the head, clearly mentally ill. No rational person would want to die any sooner than they could live"

Me double face palm

Pro-life stance on suicide is generally on shaky ground, poorly thought out. The arguments almost always assume the assumption life is superior to death and always without proving the assumption. It's much more than that though. Since we have been children we have it rubbed into is in every conceivable way life is the best thing ever death is the worst thing ever. Challenging this believe is a direct challenge to one of the foundations of their world view. Religion is self can be argued to act as a denial of death more so than what they claim to believe. If you believe you go to eternal paradise after you die, your loved ones go to eternal paradise after you die, you would look forward to death and it would be selfish for you to not be happy for loved ones when they die, as they would be in a far better place. Instead religious people resist death as much as possible, try to live until the last possible second, argue they can't comprehend why someone would want to choose death over life and so on. All of this is inconsistent with the view that you go to eternal paradise after death. Religious people do not live their life that way, do not act like they believe they are going to eternal paradise, etc.

I could go on forever but I will stop here

And, to add to the oddness, Christianity teaches that almost everybody goes to heaven.

And Christianity teaches that Jesus himself essentially committed suicide. I mean, he's supposed to have refused to use his powers to get off the cross.

 

[stbdchick]

I had a thought.

There is a very cool food bank near me. They have a big distribution one week a month with meats, staples, dairy, etc (about 6-8 bags groceries), and then smaller distributions with fresh fruit, veg and bakery products every other week. Volunteers glean from local farms; other volunteers grow in a greenhouse so fresh veggies are available all year.

I talked to them when considering doing some web work for them. The employee who showed me around told me her story, she had lost her job, went there as a recipient, when she went back to work, she became a volunteer, and when they needed to hire someone, they asked her. So she'd been a recipient and volunteer before she became an employee.

They have lots of choices and the people who need assistance shop with grocery carts so as to choose what they want, as opposed to food banks that give you a random bag of food, including stuff you can't eat or don't want to.

The reason I'm bringing this up is... what impressed me most about this food bank is there is so little distinction between employees, volunteers and recipients. Many have gone from one to another, some are in 2 roles at a time.

So... it doesn't feel like a bunch of snotty people helping those "beneath" them; it's much more egalitarian than any food bank I've ever known of. It's not an "us vs. them" kind of situation.

I think that makes a big difference in how "help" is perceived by the recipient.

Someone who has never been suicidal has no business working a hotline. They don't get it, are likely to spout all the stupid platitudes we've all heard a bazillion times, and have a tendency to be annoyingly patronizing.

I support the Trevor Project, because a lot of kids live in extremely hostile environments and talking to someone who "gets" it may help them survive until they can escape. Though honestly, I don't know if they'd call a welfare check on someone or not, and I do think being pro-choice is terribly important.

But overall, I'd rather the folks who make LGBTQIA kids lives miserable were the ones who killed themselves. In fact, I'd support a hotline that *encouraged* those fuckheads.

 

[bigj75]

I read a really interesting report earlier today that talked about career suicide. That people who were seen as such, were not depressed or suffering any great mental ill health, they were just prone to suicidal ideation as a means of controlling some aspect of their own life. So the whole scenario of suicide was about control and not ill health. I can relate to that quite easily. So, the point was, not everyone who is suicidal is disturbed or ill or anything remotely like it, its a life choice because most areas of life are out of their own control.

Good response. ive heard that from jordan peterson. he said that most of his clients lives are simply out if control and mental illness/depression is a symptom of that.

 

[Divine Trinity]

you;re right, Its not a civil society. But war has fuck all tp do with diversity or identity politics.War is about perpetuating the status quo. War is abotu money, might, power, inflence and control. Thus as is ever was, Perpetuating ghe worst of humanity. Most people are scum. Thats why we're all fucked.

Diversity in its original ambiguous definition, not self-identity. War is obviously a conflict, and confrontations always start from an inadequate ability of either/all parties to communicate and reason. In politics it's referred to as negotiations.