Venting Suicide prevention is a joke

[suisuiforum]

Never mind the fact that they refuse to let us have bodily autonomy. Never mind the fact that capitalists want us to stay alive for the sole purpose of contributing to the labor force.

What I can't stand to witness are those hypocritical, self-congratulatory pro-lifers who parrot pointless platitudes every day only to turn around and retract it all when the going gets tough.

They preen themselves on how much they care about others, about the hapless, helpless outcasts of society. They post their hotlines, donate to their little fundraisers, and call it day, thinking themselves to be good people while inadvertently or intentionally making life worse for actual suicidal people in their lives.

It is almost laughable, but downright twisted, how they're so misguided in the sense that sometimes, it's impossible to eradicate suicidal ideation. They keep us trapped out of a selfish need to placate their own guilty consciences while never thinking of our perspective at all, wholly inconsiderate of our opinions and making us feel like we're in the wrong for ever contemplating suicide, as though we should be grateful that life hasn't been more difficult for us if someone always has it worse. Of course, calling suicidal people selfish has always been their favorite pastime.

How can they say they care when people are suicidal when all they're going to do is throw more insults? Why the hell would anyone stay alive for that?
Why can't they just own up to it, be honest and say they don't give a shit about people like us, not if they're just going to raise hell and force us to fit in this pre-crafted mold?

I'm tired of the camouflaging, tired of trying to be accepted by the rest of society time after time, playing by their rules, following their rituals, always to be met with a cold shoulder. I have tried to understand the individual and collective human psyche only to be met with failure after years of introspection, and I've simply had enough. I don't believe I'm meant to participate in this world in a meaningful way, not after everyone's behavior toward me has completely shuttered any hope I once had. Is this their way of convincing me that "life is a gift"?

So I'm over it, and done with how these hypocrites will say one thing and do another, refusing to reconcile words with actions. They will merely pretend to care by continuing a series of fool's errands to stroke their own egos while never giving suicidal people a chance to explain what actually helps, and I see no indication of this changing.

 

[stilldreaming]

Certainly won't argue with any of this. Will ask some questions if that's okay?

done with how these hypocrites will say one thing and do another, refusing to reconcile words with actions

Have you heard this one: "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

Have you listened to Andrew Solomon's TED talk called something like "Depression: the secret we all share"? In it he is very thankful that he was born when he was, instead of eg 50 years earlier. The mental health field is so young. We still know so little about the brain. Perhaps it's not too surprising that we don't yet know how to effectively treat that many psychiatric disorders.

I get so frustrated too with people who are interested in suicide 'prevention'. They're not particularly interested in thinking critically about the matter, just going along with the performative #lifeisworthit BS or whatever. Instead of, eg, advocating for things that would alleviate pain and suffering for so many. eg M4A, UBI, paid leave etc.

Saw a viral tweet awhile back, the guy was saying how all the therapy and medication he's tried, nothing helped him so much as lucking into a job where he finally made enough money. Personally, I think if I could work part-time and still have all my bills / retirement paid for, with enough money to do some fun things (ie a bit of travel, indulge in hobbies like music lessons), I think I'd be quite okay. errr except for the anxiety about climate change, sigh. (That's something that maffs me off tbh, all those people that think just recycling and driving a Prius or Tesla is enough personal responsibility in regard to reducing their environmental footprint but I digress)

Many people for many things casually wish others well, but most won't spare the brain power to think critically about a subject. I used to make excuses for others ("they're too tired and burnt out to do so") but if that were true retired people would be the most well-informed people/voters in the world. So, I suppose it's a failure of our education system, to not teach the masses how to think critically?

Anyway. Sorry if I misunderstood, but it sounds like social anxiety is what causes you the most grief, is that accurate? "Hell is other people", Sartre said. Hope you're feeling a bit better after a vent x

 

[FuneralCry]

From my point of view, suicide prevention is just prolonging of suffering. I dislike how suicide is seen as something that must be prevented in every single case, even if we are suffering unbearably. We all have the right to take our lives at a time of our choosing and I wish society would recognise this. We all deserve a right to die. It isn't like we have any obligations to stay alive. The people who say suicide is selfish are in fact the selfish ones themselves, as they just want people to stay alive for their own sake.

 

[user_name_here]

I've called suicide prevention helplines before when I've felt uncontrollably down. At the best it's like a temporary comfort to have a mature sympathetic voice on the other end just acknowledge your sadness while you cry hopelessly. It's never "fixed" anything for me but it's almost like a maternal hug from an anonymous mother. Sometimes its easier to tell them how I really feel than my own family members.

 

[This_sux ✓]

Suicide is a decision made by us. Taking meds or calling hotline circus won't help for a certain group of people, but only delay their actual suicide.

 

[suisuiforum]

Certainly won't argue with any of this. Will ask some questions if that's okay?




Have you heard this one: "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

Have you listened to Andrew Solomon's TED talk called something like "Depression: the secret we all share"? In it he is very thankful that he was born when he was, instead of eg 50 years earlier. The mental health field is so young. We still know so little about the brain. Perhaps it's not too surprising that we don't yet know how to effectively treat that many psychiatric disorders.

I get so frustrated too with people who are interested in suicide 'prevention'. They're not particularly interested in thinking critically about the matter, just going along with the performative #lifeisworthit BS or whatever. Instead of, eg, advocating for things that would alleviate pain and suffering for so many. eg M4A, UBI, paid leave etc.

Saw a viral tweet awhile back, the guy was saying how all the therapy and medication he's tried, nothing helped him so much as lucking into a job where he finally made enough money. Personally, I think if I could work part-time and still have all my bills / retirement paid for, with enough money to do some fun things (ie a bit of travel, indulge in hobbies like music lessons), I think I'd be quite okay. errr except for the anxiety about climate change, sigh. (That's something that maffs me off tbh, all those people that think just recycling and driving a Prius or Tesla is enough personal responsibility in regard to reducing their environmental footprint but I digress)

Many people for many things casually wish others well, but most won't spare the brain power to think critically about a subject. I used to make excuses for others ("they're too tired and burnt out to do so") but if that were true retired people would be the most well-informed people/voters in the world. So, I suppose it's a failure of our education system, to not teach the masses how to think critically?

Anyway. Sorry if I misunderstood, but it sounds like social anxiety is what causes you the most grief, is that accurate? "Hell is other people", Sartre said. Hope you're feeling a bit better after a vent x

I think that standard therapy and medication can help plenty of people, and I would certainly encourage them to try those if they want to alleviate their suffering. Unfortunately, while there have been great strides in the fields of psychology and neuroscience over the years, more research is required in order bring a true panacea into fruition. I mainly take issue that pro-lifers are much too insistent on the idea that everyone must stay alive against their will. It's those types of "activists" who believe that all the world's problems can be solved with simple well wishes and will turn rancorous when people hold so-called "doomer" mindsets that are actually entirely logical.

I also agree that the fabric of society needs to be radically improved, especially when there are people who want to CTB because of their finances. Where is the suicide prevention there?

I wouldn't say that last bit about myself is entirely accurate. It's just a form of hypocrisy I've witnessed when people say they care but don't follow through; I don't care about any comfort they can personally offer me, but sometimes it's so obvious that it's solely for their own benefit to help themselves sleep at night. I've given up on forming connections with people in real life and don't really experience as much distress over it anymore, but I hate when they can't even be honest. Nevertheless, it sucks when networking and social interaction are still necessary for career advancement, and I have to continue LARPing like a normie.

I think you've brought up some really interesting points, and it's one of the reasons I enjoy posting on this forum! I like examining different viewpoints and openly discussing suicide, but there isn't much dialogue like this in real life when pro-choice perspectives immediately get shut down.

 

[stilldreaming]

I think that standard therapy and medication can help plenty of people, and I would certainly encourage them to try those if they want to alleviate their suffering. Unfortunately, while there have been great strides in the fields of psychology and neuroscience over the years, more research is required in order bring a true panacea into fruition. I mainly take issue that pro-lifers are much too insistent on the idea that everyone must stay alive against their will. It's those types of "activists" who believe that all the world's problems can be solved with simple well wishes and will turn rancorous when people hold so-called "doomer" mindsets that are actually entirely logical.

I also agree that the fabric of society needs to be radically improved, especially when there are people who want to CTB because of their finances. Where is the suicide prevention there?

I wouldn't say that last bit about myself is entirely accurate. It's just a form of hypocrisy I've witnessed when people say they care but don't follow through; I don't care about any comfort they can personally offer me, but sometimes it's so obvious that it's solely for their own benefit to help themselves sleep at night. I've given up on forming connections with people in real life and don't really experience as much distress over it anymore, but I hate when they can't even be honest. Nevertheless, it sucks when networking and social interaction are still necessary for career advancement, and I have to continue LARPing like a normie.

I think you've brought up some really interesting points, and it's one of the reasons I enjoy posting on this forum! I like examining different viewpoints and openly discussing suicide, but there isn't much dialogue like this in real life when pro-choice perspectives immediately get shut down.

You know something that pushed me to finally creating an account was seeing a few articles about this site, and the grieving parents crusading against it. What made me so upset was that they quoted some expert who was saying that this website was wrong for giving information, because denying information is one of the most important steps in suicide prevention.

That really bothered me, because surely treating the suicidal people's problems should surely rank up there? But no, let's not address any structural societal problems, research into more effective treatments etc etc. The obvious solution / the one I feel like pursuing is the most effective one, right?!

And ahh gotcha, re: hypocrisy. Yeah so one of the first things they teach you in econ 101 is "people are rational creatures, who will do whatever they can to maximize their own pleasure in any given moment". From my observations, one of the most important abilities to achieve this is to rationalize, constantly. Rationalize our behavior, make excuses so we don't have to change our habits / opinions / behavior etc.

One reason I love the author R Scott Bakker so much is that people's dishonesty with themselves seems to annoy him as much as it does me! I did see a study once, only depressed and highly cynical people could rate themselves accurately how attractive they are (if by 'accurately' you mean they would rate themselves the same as a group of strangers would). Otherwise, the average person rates themselves above average in terms of attractiveness, which explains a lot don't you think? And also, another study I read, said that long-term happy couples always had rose-colored glasses on when viewing their partners. So, self-delusion isn't all bad I suppose, might even be necessary in terms of happiness (either with the self or with romantic partners).

Granted I think self-delusion allows for people to be apathetic about what can be done about the climate crisis, but again I digress (and am a flaming hypocrite here, as well, since I live in a developed country).

 

[suisuiforum]

You know something that pushed me to finally creating an account was seeing a few articles about this site, and the grieving parents crusading against it. What made me so upset was that they quoted some expert who was saying that this website was wrong for giving information, because denying information is one of the most important steps in suicide prevention.

That really bothered me, because surely treating the suicidal people's problems should surely rank up there? But no, let's not address any structural societal problems, research into more effective treatments etc etc. The obvious solution / the one I feel like pursuing is the most effective one, right?!

And ahh gotcha, re: hypocrisy. Yeah so one of the first things they teach you in econ 101 is "people are rational creatures, who will do whatever they can to maximize their own pleasure in any given moment". From my observations, one of the most important abilities to achieve this is to rationalize, constantly. Rationalize our behavior, make excuses so we don't have to change our habits / opinions / behavior etc.

One reason I love the author R Scott Bakker so much is that people's dishonesty with themselves seems to annoy him as much as it does me! I did see a study once, only depressed and highly cynical people could rate themselves accurately how attractive they are (if by 'accurately' you mean they would rate themselves the same as a group of strangers would). Otherwise, the average person rates themselves above average in terms of attractiveness, which explains a lot don't you think? And also, another study I read, said that long-term happy couples always had rose-colored glasses on when viewing their partners. So, self-delusion isn't all bad I suppose, might even be necessary in terms of happiness (either with the self or with romantic partners).

Granted I think self-delusion allows for people to be apathetic about what can be done about the climate crisis, but again I digress (and am a flaming hypocrite here, as well, since I live in a developed country).

Those parents who try to attack this site are addressing the symptoms of the problem but not the cause. Maybe if they can look a little harder at why their children are dissatisfied with the world they can engender some systemic change for actually effective suicide prevention.

Honestly, I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily I behave perfectly according to pre-defined rules and logical systems, but I also try not to get involved with other people's lives, so that they can have bodily autonomy and freedom of choice.

 

[stilldreaming]

Those parents who try to attack this site are addressing the symptoms of the problem but not the cause. Maybe if they can look a little harder at why their children are dissatisfied with the world they can engender some systemic change for actually effective suicide prevention.

Honestly, I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily I behave perfectly according to pre-defined rules and logical systems, but I also try not to get involved with other people's lives, so that they can have bodily autonomy and freedom of choice.

So from R Scott Bakker's main series there's a great quote (it's fantasy, which is why it's a bit uh bombastic), it's a dialogue so bear with me:

"Ever are Men stranded on the surface of things. And ever do they confuse what they see with the sum of what matters. Ever do they forget the rank insignificance of the visible. And when they do honour the beyond—the beneath—they render it according to what is familiar… They disfigure it for comfort's sake.

The old Wizard sat rigid.

"But you… you know… You know that what lies beyond resembles us no more than the potter resembles the urn…"


So they're talking about religion there obvs, but the first line just really really stuck with me. Because most people do seem only capable of surface-level analysis. Which is why we need to reform our education system, to teach people to think more critically and look for the root cause and connections between things. Rather than looking for the most obvious thing, pointing the finger, and lunging towards it at 110 mph, like that'll fix the matter.

 

[ClownMe]

Yeah, suicide prevention is an absolute joke, this basically sums it up for me: