Venting Suicide prevention constitutes human trafficking

[Nickreading]

If a person owns a thing, they can destroy that thing for whatever reason they see fit or for no reason at all. Between the mental health act and non-legal suicide preventative measures such as the Means Matter initiative, the state relieves its denizens of self-ownership and assumes ownership of us.

 

[UKscotty]

Suicide is legal in most western countries. I think its very unrealistic to expect society to setup a system to allow less than 1% who CTB.

Those of us who want to leave have access to plenty of methods. People who want society to kill them don't have an issue with the physical act, they just have SI so they are not ready.

When someone is really ready to CTB they will just go in that moment. No time messing around with paperwork and processes.

 

[bipolar22]

Of course goverments don't want their little worker ants to die execept if it suits them e.g. soldiers or homeless people. Suicide is legal but you still will be punished locked up and tortured with antipsychotics if you say something or fail with it because they can do whatever they want anyway and bad slaves need to be taught a lesson trying to leave our beautiful society. Awesome.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

If a person owns a thing, they can destroy that thing for whatever reason they see fit or for no reason at all. Between the mental health act and non-legal suicide preventative measures such as the Means Matter initiative, the state relieves its denizens of self-ownership and assumes ownership of us.

I Agree.

 

[Nickreading]

Suicide is legal in most western countries. I think its very unrealistic to expect society to setup a system to allow less than 1% who CTB.

Those of us who want to leave have access to plenty of methods. People who want society to kill them don't have an issue with the physical act, they just have SI so they are not ready.

When someone is really ready to CTB they will just go in that moment. No time messing around with paperwork and processes.

We have access to plenty of methods. Plenty of unreliable and inhumane methods. I can't know if any of them are going to actually kill me or just leave me a vegetable. Suicide may be legal, but buying and selling reliable suicide technologies isn't.

 

[BlessedBeTheFlame]

I'm sure slave workers in Saudi-Arabia love hearing how you are literally just like them, because someone hoped you wouldn't kill yourself. Excuse me for being cynical and rude, but this sites tendency to demonize everything and everyone with a less extreme idea on death is obnoxious.

Also, if you want to argue on the idea, that you are legally property you own, then your argument makes no sense. Many constitutions (including Germany, where I live) have clauses about how owning property means you have to act responsibly. And if you don't act responsibly, the state reserves itself the right to expropriate that property. Do I agree with expropriation? Not really. But arguing from this law angle is legally illiterate.

 

[FuneralCry]

Suicide prevention truly is evil, it's certainly imprisonment, slavery and extreme cruelty. The fact that such a thing exists just causes way more harm and suffering, it shows what a hellish world we truly exist in.

 

[Nickreading]

I'm sure slave workers in Saudi-Arabia love hearing how you are literally just like them, because someone hoped you wouldn't kill yourself. Excuse me for being cynical and rude, but this sites tendency to demonize everything and everyone with a less extreme idea on death is obnoxious.

Also, if you want to argue on the idea, that you are legally property you own, then your argument makes no sense. Many constitutions (including Germany, where I live) have clauses about how owning property means you have to act responsibly. And if you don't act responsibly, the state reserves itself the right to expropriate that property. Do I agree with expropriation? Not really. But arguing from this law angle is legally illiterate.

I didn't say that I was exactly like the slave workers in Saudi Arabia and you know that. The point remains: I am state property. The fact that there are people who have it worse doesn't disprove that.

Also, if the German government van take your property because they think you're using it irresponsibly, then it's already their property to begin with.

 

[Deleted member 8119]

Those of us who want to leave have access to plenty of methods.

Yeah, but they are pretty inhumane as someone said above.

People who want society to kill them don't have an issue with the physical act, they just have SI so they are not ready.

They clearly made their choice, they are just stuck in someone they clearly don't want to or have easy access to.

When someone is really ready to CTB they will just go in that moment.

Or get caught and suffer coercion, or lose mobility...

Seriously, accessibility is a big deal and it would solve the problems above. Sadly, for many people, it's not as simple as "just do it" as this comment implies.

If a person owns a thing, they can destroy that thing for whatever reason they see fit or for no reason at all. Between the mental health act and non-legal suicide preventative measures such as the Means Matter initiative, the state relieves its denizens of self-ownership and assumes ownership of us.

I wouldn't call it "human trafficking". It's cruel for sure, but you aren't sold or exchanged.

 

[Nickreading]

Yeah, but they are pretty inhumane as someone said above.

They clearly made their choice, they are just stuck in someone they clearly don't want to or have easy access to.

Or get caught and suffer coercion, or lose mobility...

Seriously, accessibility is a big deal and it would solve the problems above. Sadly, for many people, it's not as simple as "just do it" as this comment implies.



I wouldn't call it "human trafficking". It's cruel for sure, but you aren't sold or exchanged.

But we are. Living costs money. The state forces us to live, therefore forcing us to work. Not only that, but every time we spend money, earn money or save money, we have to give a cut to the very people who won't let us die.

 

[26mmmm]

Suicide is legal in most western countries. I think its very unrealistic to expect society to setup a system to allow less than 1% who CTB.

Those of us who want to leave have access to plenty of methods. People who want society to kill them don't have an issue with the physical act, they just have SI so they are not ready.

When someone is really ready to CTB they will just go in that moment. No time messing around with paperwork and processes.

I agree. If suicide was much easier it would cause way more harm than good, and there are already plenty of good methods out there that are pretty easily accessible, yet people still complain.
People here just have biased, wrong and negative views and philosophies based just on their own experience and not logic.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

Suicide is legal in most western countries. I think its very unrealistic to expect society to setup a system to allow less than 1% who CTB.

Those of us who want to leave have access to plenty of methods. People who want society to kill them don't have an issue with the physical act, they just have SI so they are not ready.

When someone is really ready to CTB they will just go in that moment. No time messing around with paperwork and processes.

While I do agree that there are methods out there and most people hesitate because they are not actually ready to die, success isn't guaranteed and the consequences of failure can be profound.

Furthermore, while most countries are not going to arrest or prosecute a suicidal person, there are loopholes in the law that grant police greater powers when dealing with suicidal people, including involuntary sectioning clauses that can make a suicidal person lose their freedoms for weeks to months at a time if a judge approves it. Those who aid in a suicide directly are also liable for prosecution in most countries, making the act itself in a weird grey area legally. So while you aren't going to be arrested persay, there are offshoot consequences under the purview of the law including sectioning and 'duty of care'
/Bystander statures that are in place to stop suicides.

I don't remember the name of the individual, but there was a case in cornwall I believe last year where a woman had survived a jump from a large height and ended up permanently disabled and suffering from paralysis and many other medical problems. She was still suicidal after that and forcibly sectioned multiple times under long term orders, even when she cried and cried wanting to be at home. She eventually did pass away and the hospital faced legal backlash because they did not know that she had SN which she used in the ward to end her life.

So while the individual may not face legal consequences as much for suicidal behaviour (albeit sectioning or potentially losing clearance for certain jobs) every time a case happens, a coroner's job is to go looking for blame to prevent further suicides from occuring and to ban more methods. Often times this means people who were powerless to do anything in the situation end up facing legal recourse or being reprimanded, for example certain trusts and mental health services have faced blame even when there was no indication that a suicidal person under their care had intent to ctb. This does leave the act in a legally grey area where others can be punished.

While I do think that many of the viewpoints here can veer towards the side of being extreme, and I think the people enacting these sorts of legislation banning euthanasia truly believe it is in good faith and they are doing something righteous that saves happy lives, I think it is more black and white than this. When there are many countries that have successfully implemented right to die legislation, I don't think it is impossible for other places to do so as well.

And the main benefit of such services is having a guaranteed and painless way out. While Americans do have guns, and a person can jump or hang anywhere in the world, these latter two methods are not guaranteed and are certainly not painless and without a great deal of fear. Success is not a guarantee and if a person fails then the medical and judicial systems are legally obligated to provide life saving medical care to keep them alive and stop them, even if this person would be a vegetable the rest of their life. Having legal euthanasia solves the issue of litigiousness and consequences of failure.

Recently this young woman was granted euthanasia and spent her last hours completely calm and posting memes about it. This is not a luxury many people have, especially if they are bracing themselves to pass using very painful and violent methods. When those in Netherlands and Belgium can be granted painless euthanasia once their pain is too great, I don't think people should have to endure violent, risky, and painful methods. And from my experience, even the golden goose SN can be painful especially if one has GI issues...

https://twitter.com/Morbidful/status/1755273363264623056

 

[thepiecessatup]

But we are. Living costs money. The state forces us to live, therefore forcing us to work. Not only that, but every time we spend money, earn money or save money, we have to give a cut to the very people who won't let us die.

I agree and I am not financially viable so it's incredibly stressful.