Discussion Suicide, pain and caring

[Sprite_Geist]

One of the major arguments against suicide is that it is wrong because it hurts (emotionally) those that care about you i.e.: family, spouses, friends and et cetera. But there is an issue with this that not many people consider...

What if a suicidal person does not want friends or loved ones in their life? What if a suicidal person does not want to care about others? Correct me if I am wrong, but we all have the right to decide who is in our lives - do we not? And if we decide to end a connection that we have with someone then are we still responsible for them - emotionally? Do we have to care about them anymore?

To argue that a suicidal person should stay alive because another person cares about them, is to say that others can claim us as their own simply by having affectionate feelings for us. This contradicts what has been said above, and it also goes against the principle of consent in relationships. It is the equivalent of saying that somebody has to have sex with you because you have a crush on them - for example. It all reminds me of the so-called "Incel" movement which, as a whole, is demonized by society, but if you think about it our society acts very much like an incel when it comes to suicide.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Ta555]

One of the major arguments against suicide is that it is wrong because it hurts (emotionally) those that care about you i.e.: family, spouses, friends and et cetera. But there is an issue with this that not many people consider...

What if a suicidal person does not want friends or loved ones in their life? What if a suicidal person does not want to care about others? Correct me if I am wrong, but we all have the right to decide who is in our lives - do we not? And if we decide to end a connection that we have with someone then are we still responsible for them - emotionally? Do we have to care about them anymore?

To argue that a suicidal person should stay alive because another person cares about them, is to say that others can claim us as their own simply by having affectionate feelings for us. This contradicts what has been said above, and it also goes against the principle of consent in relationships. It is the equivalent of saying that somebody has to have sex with you because you have a crush on them - for example. It all reminds me of the so-called "Incel" movement which, as a whole, is demonized by society, but if you think about it our society acts very much like an incel when it comes to suicide.

What are your thoughts on this?

I agree. It's the same with the abortion argument. You can't force anyone to make you give up your bodily resources for another (in this case a fetish). But for some reason we have to surrender ourselves to others' wishes when it comes to suicide. For some reason when it comes to decide about your own life other people's feelings take precedence.
I suppose it's because they'll say well you'll be dead so it won't matter to you but they're still alive living with this pain. But if you stay alive then you're in pain. It's a situation in which no one wins. But at the end of the day, wanting someone who is suffering to stay alive because you don't want to go through grief is cruel.

 

[Bleak]

Nah I don't buy it. Couldn't you justify pretty much anything with "I don't want that person to have that food I am going to steal", or "I don't want to be inconvenienced by the suffering of this person I will hit with my car". Other people have feelings just as we do. This doesn't mean that anyone who cares about you owns you, but nonetheless you can't just nullify their feelings because you don't want them to have them. But this works both ways in that people who love the suicide should also care about their suffering and whether living is too much pain for them.

 

[Ta555]

Nah I don't buy it. Couldn't you justify pretty much anything with "I don't want that person to have that food I am going to steal", or "I don't want to be inconvenienced by the suffering of this person I will hit with my car". Other people have feelings just as we do. This doesn't mean that anyone who cares about you owns you, but nonetheless you can't just nullify their feelings because you don't want them to have them. But this works both ways in that people who love the suicide should also care about their suffering and whether living is too much pain for them.

It's a no-win situation unless at least one party really truly hates the other and doesn't give a shit about them.

 

[motel rooms]

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I killed myself & left my husband behind...
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

What are your thoughts on this?

Your points are very good.

 

[FuneralCry]

What you are saying makes sense. It is selfish to expect another person to stay alive for your own benefit, we have no obligations to stay alive as we did not ask to exist. It is our life, our decision and nobody else has any say in it.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

Nah I don't buy it. Couldn't you justify pretty much anything with "I don't want that person to have that food I am going to steal", or "I don't want to be inconvenienced by the suffering of this person I will hit with my car".

Yes I suppose it could be used to justify anything. However I think that the difference is that stealing or running someone over are physical attacks whereas the response to a suicide is emotional.

Other people have feelings just as we do. This doesn't mean that anyone who cares about you owns you, but nonetheless you can't just nullify their feelings because you don't want them to have them. But this works both ways in that people who love the suicide should also care about their suffering and whether living is too much pain for them.

My initial post was not trying to suggest that we should nullify the feelings of other people, at least if I think that word means what it does. I was trying to argue that suicide is not "wrong" regardless of whether or not others will be upset as a result. Yes people may (or may not) feel pain in reaction to a suicide, and they are allowed to feel that way, but it does not mean we are responsible for that pain nor should we stay alive to to keep others happy. I will use one of my own experiences as an example: a few years ago an individual who I considered a close friend ended our friendship. It was very painful for me to realise that they did not want to be in my life anymore. Now would you call this person selfish? Would you blame them for "causing" me pain? Should they feel guilty? No - they should not. This is because they never had to be my friend in the first place; relationships are a choice and not an obligation, or so we are told. They were my friend because they freely decided to, and likewise they can choose to leave at any point they please. I think this same principle should apply to suicide.