Suicide is not automatically associated with mental illness

[badtothebone]

I've read a lot stories here from users who wants to die due to relationship issues, financial, too much stress, grief, etc. not everyone suicidal has mental illness. To be mentally ill, there are catogories that you have to meet. Sadness by itself doesn't mean depression! And even depression can be situational not permanent in come case

***You have to be clinically diagnosed by psychiatric before you label yourself.

From today's news: "Many people who attempt or die by suicide don't fit criteria for mental health disorders, clinical psychologist Dr. Michael Roeske told CNN in a previous story — rather, they likely don't see a way to live with an incredibly stressful situation such as loss of a job, home or loved one; infidelity; trauma; legal matters; a debilitating illness; or other crises".

I was on TikTok the other day. Some news about the person who jumped to his death. Some people wrote in the comment that he was bullied. I replied to someone's comment " he didn't have to be mentally ill, bullying can make you hate yourself". The guy replied to me " even if he was bullied I'm sure he was mentally ill, I was bullied but I didn't kill myself". I left the post alone because I disagree. When my son died, I automatically grabbed oxycodone and took the whole bottle but they saved me. Losing someone we love makes your life miserable, empty, sad, dark, and suicidal.

Not everyone can handle stress the same. We all have different responses. If someone is harassing you and telling you " I will kill my self if I was you" what's your response to that type of bully??

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Trauma and bullying can both lead to an increased chance of developing a mental illness and those who are already mentally ill are at an increased chance of being bullied, so they might have been mentally ill. You can't be the one to say why they killed themself because you aren't them.

With that out of the way, I do agree that there is huge issue with people chalking up suicide as something that only mentally ill people do, despite there being a growing amount of evidence saying otherwise. Life stressors, lack of support, and personality traits, such as impulsivity, can impact people's suicidality and can lead those without psychiatric issues to attempting. I also feel like people don't realize how dangerous this type of generalization is. By pushing the notion that all suicides are as a result of mental illness, it allows for oppressors to use mental illness as a scapegoat and ignore all the other things going on that are leading to rising suicide rates. Saying that suicidal ideation only occurs amongst the mentally ill also feeds into pro-life rhetoric, since a large part of their argument against RTD is the idea that all suicidal people are mentally ill and thus are not in their right mind.

 

[annointed_towers]

I'm not mentally ill. I'm actually not even depressed. Life circumstances are pushing me to suicide.

 

[Ariii]

Yep, I think I once saw a stat that said around 50%-60% (needs fact-check) of people who commit have depression. But then that's 40-50% of people who don't have depression that still choose to commit suicide. Yet we as a society are so intent on depression being a main factor for suicide when for everyone it's different. I constantly see people being up depression in suicide discussions, which is fair in some/most cases, but not something that should immediately be assumed. People just want to attribute suicide to depression because 1) it's easier than confronting the problems in our society and 2) they can just attribute suicide to something only mentally ill ppl do and therefore use that as a reason to discourage it (bc if "your mentally I'll, you're not thinking straight").

And then there's also the problem of confronting where depression comes from. Some people just have it, but then a lot of people are depressed because of finances, trauma, etc. Yet it is used as a blanket term for the cause of suicide when oftentimes, it is not the baseline reason.

 

[badtothebone]

Trauma and bullying can both lead to an increased chance of developing a mental illness and those who are already mentally ill are at an increased chance of being bullied, so they might have been mentally ill. You can't be the one to say why they killed themself because you aren't them.

With that out of the way, I do agree that there is huge issue with people chalking up suicide as something that only mentally ill people do, despite there being a growing amount of evidence saying otherwise. Life stressors, lack of support, and personality traits, such as impulsivity, can impact people's suicidality and can lead those without psychiatric issues to attempting. I also feel like people don't realize how dangerous this type of generalization is. By pushing the notion that all suicides are as a result of mental illness, it allows for oppressors to use mental illness as a scapegoat and ignore all the other things going on that are leading to rising suicide rates. Saying that suicidal ideation only occurs amongst the mentally ill also feeds into pro-life rhetoric, since a large part of their argument against RTD is the idea that all suicidal people are mentally ill and thus are not in their right mind.

Most of the people also die by suicide are were actually very smart people including my 14 y.o. Son. He was super smart for his age. I think people realize"what life is" and decide not to continue. And you're right the only one who can tell their story is them but they are dead so we don't know. Some evidence in most of the cases in America were actually bullying, but I can't say they were mentally ill.

Yep, I think I once saw a stat that said around 50%-60% (needs fact-check) of people who commit have depression. But then that's 40-50% of people who don't have depression that still choose to commit suicide. Yet we as a society are so intent on depression being a main factor for suicide when for everyone it's different. I constantly see people being up depression in suicide discussions, which is fair in some/most cases, but not something that should immediately be assumed. People just want to attribute suicide to depression because 1) it's easier than confronting the problems in our society and 2) they can just attribute suicide to something only mentally ill ppl do and therefore use that as a reason to discourage it (bc if "your mentally I'll, you're not thinking straight").

And then there's also the problem of confronting where depression comes from. Some people just have it, but then a lot of people are depressed because of finances, trauma, etc. Yet it is used as a blanket term for the cause of suicide when oftentimes, it is not the baseline reason.

I agree with you. Instead of blaming the cause they say "mental health is real" really?

I'm not mentally ill. I'm actually not even depressed. Life circumstances are pushing me to suicide.

Life circumstances can be the main reason. We have a lot of stressors and the new generation can't handle stress from what I'm seeing.

 

[dust-in-the-wind]

Hopelessness I believe is the all cause reason for suicide, not mental illness.

 

[kkamasal]

I agree There was a time when I wasnt depressed but even then, I didn't change my desire to die because my future is clearly visible and there is nothing I can change or I can do And as time goes on, life is getting worse and worse, and I don't know why I should continue to extend my life without meaning or value in the first place, and the pain is increasing 100% But its very very difficult to die ...

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Most of the people also die by suicide are were actually very smart people including my 14 y.o. Son. He was super smart for his age. I think people realize"what life is" and decide not to continue. And you're right the only one who can tell their story is them but they are dead so we don't know. Some evidence in most of the cases in America were actually bullying, but I can't say they were mentally ill.

A study from Sweden found that, at least amongst men, low emotional control and low IQ were both associated with a higher risk of suicide.

The researchers found that people with the lowest measured intelligence were as much as six times more likely to attempt or die from suicide compared to those with the highest intelligence. Similarly, men with the least emotional control had an almost seven-fold higher risk of suicidal behavior than men in the highest category. For men with low IQ, the strong association remained over time whereas men with low emotional control in their adolescence seemed less vulnerable to suicide as they aged

This isn't to say that high intellectual acts a protector against suicide, because it doesn't, but to say that most people who die from suicide are very smart isn't true. This also feeds into the whole "higher intelligence = more suffering" rhetoric. In reality, high intelligence is associated with a lower risk of developing general anxiety, PTSD, and less neuroticism. It's also associated with a decreased risk of having experienced childhood stressors, adult stressors, and trauma. I'm sure your son was very bright but him committing suicide isn't a testament to that.

 

[badtothebone]

I agree There was a time when I wasnt depressed but even then, I didn't change my desire to die because my future is clearly visible and there is nothing I can change or I can do And as time goes on, life is getting worse and worse, and I don't know why I should continue to extend my life without meaning or value in the first place, and the pain is increasing 100% But its very very difficult to die ...

Sometimes I regret not dying young, but I never had thoughts before. Life is very ugly and we live with the pain because we have obligation's. It's very very difficult to die. I can't agree more.

 

[sugarb]

Most of the people also die by suicide are were actually very smart people including my 14 y.o. Son. He was super smart for his age. I think people realize"what life is" and decide not to continue. And you're right the only one who can tell their story is them but they are dead so we don't know. Some evidence in most of the cases in America were actually bullying, but I can't say they were mentally ill.

According to some studies, suicidality is generally inversely proportional to IQ, but in autistic individuals the opposite is true (to an extreme degree). Which I think is strange

My guess is that for most people being smarter means they have better life conditions. Doctors, engineers, etc all make a ton of money and those are pretty smart fields.

But for people who's brains work differently (in this instance, autistics) it's different. Maybe they're tortured by their increased awareness and existential thoughts and can't distract themselves very well.

I'm semi-smart and autistic and have a lot of that. I imagine if I was a 16 IQ genius I'd be in agony 24/7

Autism combined with high IQ increases risk of suicidal thoughts | Carver College of Medicine

Twice exceptional youth—children who have a diagnosis of autism and who also have exceptional cognitive ability—are at increased the risk of suicidal thoughts, according to a recent study by researchers at the University of Iowa.

medicine.uiowa.edu

edit: meant 160 IQ lol

 

[Lady Laudanum]

According to some studies, suicidality is generally inversely proportional to IQ, but in autistic individuals the opposite is true (to an extreme degree). Which I think is strange

My guess is that for most people being smarter means they have better life conditions. Doctors, engineers, etc all make a ton of money and those are pretty smart fields.

But for people who's brains work differently (in this instance, autistics) it's different. Maybe they're tortured by their increased awareness and existential thoughts and can't distract themselves very well.

I'm semi-smart and autistic and have a lot of that. I imagine if I was a 16 IQ genius I'd be in agony 24/7

Autism combined with high IQ increases risk of suicidal thoughts | Carver College of Medicine

Twice exceptional youth—children who have a diagnosis of autism and who also have exceptional cognitive ability—are at increased the risk of suicidal thoughts, according to a recent study by researchers at the University of Iowa.

medicine.uiowa.edu

"16 IQ genius"

Yes I is 16 IQ genius hurr durr

 

[badtothebone]

A study from Sweden found that, at least amongst men, low emotional control and low IQ were both associated with a higher risk of suicide.


This isn't to say that high intellectual acts a protector against suicide, because it doesn't, but to say that most people who die from suicide are very smart isn't true. This also feeds into the whole "higher intelligence = more suffering" rhetoric. In reality, high intelligence is associated with a lower risk of developing general anxiety, PTSD, and less neuroticism. It's also associated with a decreased risk of having experienced childhood stressors, adult stressors, and trauma. I'm sure your son was very bright but him committing suicide isn't a testament to that.

• High-IQ people often experience social isolation, which can lead to depression or make them act more introverted than is their nature.
• The very intelligent know they're intelligent, so they're prone to setting lofty expectations for themselves that they can't meet.
• Because high-IQ people typically learn things effortlessly, they may never develop the habit of perseverance so important to long-term success.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

• High-IQ people often experience social isolation, which can lead to depression or make them act more introverted than is their nature.
• The very intelligent know they're intelligent, so they're prone to setting lofty expectations for themselves that they can't meet.
• Because high-IQ people typically learn things effortlessly, they may never develop the habit of perseverance so important to long-term success.

Yeah, no. Most studies claiming to find a positive correlation between mental illnesses (such as depression) and intelligence usually have a variety of issues, such as sampling bias. Hence why I cited that particular study, since they specifically designed in a such a way in order to address those issues.

APA PsycNet

psycnet.apa.org

It expresses that suicide is less common in those who are smart as measured by intelligence tests.

Smart people make better decisions and are less likely to make the decision to die by suicide.

 

[badtothebone]

Yeah, no. Most studies claiming to find a positive correlation between mental illnesses (such as depression) and intelligence usually have a variety of issues, such as sampling bias. Hence why I cited that particular study, since they specifically designed in a such a way in order to address those issues.

APA PsycNet

psycnet.apa.org

Thank you so much for sharing! I think I'm also looking at my son suicide; he was very smart advanced in his class and he had everything to live for. I'm distracting my self by posting here but deep inside I'm hurt and I feel guilty for my son death. I can't find any reason beside me for his death. Although he had everything and was happy, I argued with him a day before and it wasn't even a fight just argument. The next day he died. I want to kill myself so bad

 

[-Link-]

Not everyone can handle stress the same. We all have different responses. If someone is harassing you and telling you " I will kill my self if I was you" what's your response to that type of bully??

Civilized society considers my response unlawful.

From today's news: "Many people who attempt or die by suicide don't fit criteria for mental health disorders, clinical psychologist Dr. Michael Roeske told CNN in a previous story — rather, they likely don't see a way to live with an incredibly stressful situation such as loss of a job, home or loved one; infidelity; trauma; legal matters; a debilitating illness; or other crises".

Concerning suicide driven by reasons other than mental illness, one of the prime examples for this is Robin Williams -- frequently attributed to depression, but the overall picture is less clear.

Even if someone dies by suicide with the presence of a mental illness, it's still possible the health condition is only coincidental.

And goodness knows if the coincidental mental illness is major depression, then "IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE DEPRESSION!!" Even if depression is directly responsible for 999-out-of-1000 suicides in people with major depression, that still adds up to a lot of deaths being misattributed. (999-out-of-1000 is a made-up stat. I don't know the real stat.)

 

[badtothebone]

Civilized society considers my response unlawful.


Concerning suicide driven by reasons other than mental illness, one of the prime examples for this is Robin Williams -- frequently attributed to depression, but the overall picture is less clear.

Even if someone dies by suicide with the presence of a mental illness, it's still possible the health condition is only coincidental.

And goodness knows if the coincidental mental illness is major depression, then "IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE DEPRESSION!!" Even if depression is directly responsible for 999-out-of-1000 suicides in people with major depression, that still adds up to a lot of deaths being misattributed. (999-out-of-1000 is a made-up stat. I don't know the real stat.)

Wow! I was just reading about Robin Williams suicide. I loved him so much because he was very real! None knows but him and he's gone to answer our questions

 

[sugarb]

"16 IQ genius"

Yes I is 16 IQ genius hurr durr

Why have three digit brain when two do trick?

https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/far-side-before-paper-and-scissors.jpg

 

[EvisceratedJester]

"16 IQ genius"

Yes I is 16 IQ genius hurr durr

Man, I'm jealous. Whenever I do an IQ the results are always "ERROR: TOO LOW TO DETECT" and the psychologists are always asking me how I keep on scoring this low.

 

[enduringwinter]

Mental illness is just western version of the Korean fan death thing. Said to sweep suicide under the rug to give everybody an easier time

OP I can tell you're kind because you are mourning your child's death. My parents would never they'd just be angry and it would be a nuisance to them at most. It's not even like they don't love me they're just genuinely that type of person.

 

[Lady Laudanum]

Why have three digit brain when two do trick?

https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/far-side-before-paper-and-scissors.jpg

me so smart me have 4 digit big brain as big as my big dick

Man, I'm jealous. Whenever I do an IQ the results are always "ERROR: TOO LOW TO DETECT" and the psychologists are always asking me how I keep on scoring this low.

your IQ = machine epsilon
my IQ = 16

I is smorter than you stoopid idiot!

 

[sugarb]

me so smart me have 4 digit big brain as big as my big dick


your IQ = machine epsilon
my IQ = 16

I is smorter than you stoopid idiot!

Woaaa four digit penar

 

[badtothebone]

Mental illness is just western version of the Korean fan death thing. Said to sweep suicide under the rug to give everybody an easier time

OP I can tell you're kind because you are mourning your child's death. My parents would never they'd just be angry and it would be a nuisance to them at most. It's not even like they don't love me they're just genuinely that type of person.

Thank you so much @enduringwinter i appreciate your beautiful response and I'm sure your parents love you but everyone love differently. A friend of mine her son also died from heart attack out of the blue he wasn't sick. We meet at the grave yard but I never saw her tears she's always in a good mood I know she loved her son but I just can't be normal like her even if I try. I love my son so much there is no words to describe my pain.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

me so smart me have 4 digit big brain as big as my big dick


your IQ = machine epsilon
my IQ = 16

I is smorter than you stoopid idiot!

U dont need to roob it in

 

[Ww42]

I can't personally relate because severe depression since I was around like 10 has really pushed me to suicide, but I can certainly see where suicide isn't always mental illness related, which in my opinion makes it even worse that society makes situations so bad that even the non-mentally ill want to die

 

[Lady Laudanum]

Woaaa four digit penar

bigger than yours and better than yours

U dont need to roob it in

but I luv bragging about my big and smort brain!! it's the only way me can feel gud about myself.

 

[sugarb]

U dont need to roob it in

hagahgsa penar -> rubbing it in hehehe

bigger than yours and better than yours

zamn

 

[badtothebone]

I can't personally relate because severe depression since I was around like 10 has really pushed me to suicide, but I can certainly see where suicide isn't always mental illness related, which in my opinion makes it even worse that society makes situations so bad that even the non-mentally ill want to die

I agree with you! I was reading about the law maker and his son Gabin who died by suicide at age 17 last year due to sextortion this boy didn't have any mental illness according to his dad but he was scared so he killed himself. We have almost 300 teens who died or attempted suicide due to similar situations.
I work long hours it's a 12 hours shift at the hospital specifically trauma ICU so by the time I go home I'm just tired and overwhelmed from the type of patients we treat. I didn't give my son a chance to tell me whatever he was dealing with alone. Money is not everything. I make money but I lost my son so what's the point?

 

[Lady Laudanum]

hagahgsa penar -> rubbing it in hehehe

my big brain so big that when I rub one out brain matter comes out through my big dick

 

[Ww42]

I agree with you! I was reading about the law maker and his son Gabin who died by suicide at age 17 last year due to sextortion this boy didn't have any mental illness according to his dad but he was scared so he killed himself. We have almost 300 teens who died or attempted suicide due to similar situations.
I work long hours it's a 12 hours shift at the hospital specifically trauma ICU so by the time I go home I'm just tired and overwhelmed from the type of patients we treat. I didn't give my son a chance to tell me whatever he was dealing with alone. Money is not everything. I make money but I lost my son so what's the point?

I am so sorry for your loss, a parent should never suffer that. I can sort of relate? I work in hospitals too as a nurse assistant, so I understand the pain of those 12 hour shifts and just not having the mental energy for regular life I completely understand! Healthcare is soul sucking. I went into it thinking I'd be saving lives and it's really just all about the bottom dollar for these CEO's

 

[badtothebone]

I am so sorry for your loss, a parent should never suffer that. I can sort of relate? I work in hospitals too as a nurse assistant, so I understand the pain of those 12 hour shifts and just not having the mental energy for regular life I completely understand! Healthcare is soul sucking. I went into it thinking I'd be saving lives and it's really just all about the bottom dollar for these CEO's

I know right? I hate my job we get tortured from the doctors who they have no clue and they throw their work on us. You're right we save life and in my case in the other hand I lost my son life in the process. Take care of yourself I'm not sure if I'm staying alive but if I decided to live for my children I'm going to need career changed for sure.