Suicide Declines When Times Are Hard

[4mom]

I had an interesting conversation last night. Someone said something like this: "If World War III happens, the suicide rate will drop drastically." The reason? When hard times come and a lot of energy is required just to eat, sleep and drink (not taken for granted) then the mentality changes even in someone who might be suicidal.

What do you think? Agree or disagree? Why?

 

[GrumpyFrog]

The "eat-sleep-drink, no time to ruminate" is definitely true. Another thing I think is not exclusive to myself is that when people are faced with serious hardship, they might not want it to be the last thing they ever experience. I mean, we all would like to go peacefully and spend our last days in as much comfort as possible. You also worry about other people and don't want to leave them helpless. And plus there is the added factor - if you fail your attempt no one will probably be there to help and you might find yourself in a horrible predicament. So yeah, there are multiple reasons why suicide rates my actually drop if the WWIII starts. Even the simple "why put effort into killing myself when I can get killed any moment anyway, why not just take a chance and see what happens" attitude.

 

[western_heart]

seems like this has been true historically for other conflicts, this study looks at the Sri Lankan civil war https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7592752/

might be interesting to look at the references

 

[Depressed Cat]

Yes, this is certainly true.

However, it is also true that mental illness rates go up shockingly after people emerge from a collective traumatic situation due to PTSD, anxiety, panic attacks etc.

I'm already reading reports of Ukrainian children showing signs of PTSD due to the ongoing genocide unleashed by the barbaric Russian invaders, and it breaks my heart! I don't know how I can help them apart from praying for all Ukrainians and their pets.

 

[4mom]

Even the simple "why put effort into killing myself when I can get killed any moment anyway, why not just take a chance and see what happens" attitude.

I agree completely. It is sad to say, but a part of me kind of hoped for a natural disaster just to not have to deal with all of the stress of my own depression and the depression my children experience.

 

[Someone123]

I had an interesting conversation last night. Someone said something like this: "If World War III happens, the suicide rate will drop drastically." The reason? When hard times come and a lot of energy is required just to eat, sleep and drink (not taken for granted) then the mentality changes even in someone who might be suicidal.

What do you think? Agree or disagree? Why?

This may work for a while but after the crisis people's long-term underlying problems remain and I wouldn't be surprised to see a spike after the conflict due to postponed ctbs. If WWIII did get here some people who want to leave may put themselves in high-risk situations in the conflict and never be recorded as ctb even though it was in a way. A temporary focus on basic needs won't solve the underlying problems for most people who ctb, though some may get some job skills working in the conflict and some human connections working in this situation and this may soilve their problems leading to ctb.

 

[Manaaja]

Goddamn I'm going through that right now. I feel too tired and hopeless to do anything.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

It is sad to say, but a part of me kind of hoped for a natural disaster just to not have to deal with all of the stress of my own depression and the depression my children experience.

I don't want to disappoint you, but disaster situations are probably more depressing than anything, unless you're just taken out quickly.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a spike after the conflict due to postponed ctbs.

Good point. CTB rates might go down during the war but then sharply go up after.

A temporary focus on basic needs won't solve the underlying problems for most people who ctb, though some may get some job skills working in the conflict and some human connections working in this situation and this may soilve their problems leading to ctb.

I don't think it would be reasonable to expect for war to resolve anyone's problems permanently. I think the statistics just show that there are less cases of CTB temporarily, during the crisis, not that the same people wouldn't just CTB later...

Goddamn I'm going through that right now. I feel too tired and hopeless to do anything.

I'm so sorry What is happening?

 

[rationaltake]

@Nessie. I'm so sorry you're in a hideous situation. It puts my own concerns into perspective. You're a wonderful human being. You've stepped up in a way I never could. This shouldn't be happening to you or anybody else. But it is happening. Wishing you relief.

 

[GentleJerk]

Wonder if this has anything to do with the old saying:

"hard times make strong men, strong men make easy times, easy times make weak men, weak men make hard times."

 

[noname223]

I had an interesting conversation last night. Someone said something like this: "If World War III happens, the suicide rate will drop drastically." The reason? When hard times come and a lot of energy is required just to eat, sleep and drink (not taken for granted) then the mentality changes even in someone who might be suicidal.

What do you think? Agree or disagree? Why?

I thought the opposite was true...at least in financial crises the suicide rates increase as far as I know

 

[june]

This is interesting idea

 

[Siterfau]

Hmm... Reading that article western_heart posted, it seems that one of the reasons given for why suicide rates are lower during wartime is because of what's essentially tribalism.

From https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7592752/

At the end of the 19th century, Durkheim proposed that suicide is a social phenomenon [1]. He argued that suicide rates are negatively related to the degree of social integration and regulation, whereas over-integration or over-regulation also induces other types of suicide. Wartime is considered to be the period when the degree of social integration increases, leading to lower suicide rates than those in peacetime. Specifically, he stated, "So there can only be one explanation for these facts, which is that great upheavals in society, like great popular wars, sharpen collective feelings, stimulate the party spirit and the national one and, by concentrating activities towards a single end, achieve, at least for a time, a greater integration of society"

Basically, there's more reason to feel like you belong with society in a war because people start thinking of each other as part of their country in response to an external threat. You don't feel as big of an outsider, basically.

It's a plausible theory, although I don't really have the background in psychology or whatever to say if people still think it's true nowadays. It's still a bird's eye view theory at best though. Decreased suicide rates won't necessarily mean no suicides, and I don't think I need to explain that there'd probably be more deaths anyway.

So going back to the question, I guess I partially agree. There's theories that suicide rates do decline, but it's because of different reasons.

Honestly, it doesn't really make sense to me why not taking food, sleep, and water for granted would decrease suicide rates. According to that reasoning, people in poverty would have decreased suicide rates because they don't take sleep/water/food for granted, but that's clearly not the case (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27475770/).

 

[GrumpyFrog]

Honestly, it doesn't really make sense to me why not taking food, sleep, and water for granted would decrease suicide rates.

I think the point that was being made wasn't about not taking necessities for granted, just about spending too much time and energy trying to just get necessities to plan suicide or, pretty much, to think about anything at all. That kind of make sense.

Basically, there's more reason to feel like you belong with society in a war because people start thinking of each other as part of their country in response to an external threat. You don't feel as big of an outsider, basically.

Eh, maaaybe. I'm not sure about that one. Maybe works for someone.

 

[Siterfau]

I think the point that was being made wasn't about not taking necessities for granted, just about spending too much time and energy trying to just get necessities to plan suicide or, pretty much, to think about anything at all.

"not taken for granted" was directly said in the original post, so that's the interpretation I ran with.

That kind of make sense.

It does make sense, but there's always other factors that can affect things. This chart of suicide rates in the US over the past century shows that suicide rates increased during the start of the Great Depression, which is definitely a time period where people needed to spend a lot of time and energy just to get necessities. At the same time though, it started decreasing even as WW2 kicked into gear.

Eh, maaaybe. I'm not sure about that one. Maybe works for someone.

Yeah. It doesn't really work for me either. Way too many people exist for such a theory (even if true) to be 100% applicable to everyone. I just repeated what the theory was.

 

[CowsAreCool]

I'm a runner. For many races, the most painful part is when you cross the finish line and stop. The adrenaline wears off, and it hits you like a ton of bricks. I'm lucky if I can even stay standing.

When life is easy and you have a moment to reflect, misery will sink in. People scraping by, day by day, quite literally don't have time for despair. It's easy to get distracted from the pain and misery of life.

Suicide has always been linked to affluence. That's my theory as to why.

 

[Ligottian]

In a World War Three scenario (or even certain lesser traumas), I wont be sticking around to eke anything out. I'll just say" Okay, this is it" and go get my pistol.