Discussion Suicide as Natural Selection

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

I think this does make a bit of sense and I'm pretty sure that's why euthanasia and eventually suicide in general will be accepted in most 'advanced' countries.
I think only healthy people with decent genes should be allowed to breed and be caregivers. Otherwise the offspring will suffer.

I was of this opinion for a while, but there is a possibility the offspring will suffer even if both parents are mentally healthy.

 

[Life sucks]

Ctbing isn't natural selection. Many people overestimate biology, they deal with stuff like evolution and genes as if its a god that choose the better which is actually a misconception. There is no true direction for it and it doesn't seek to eliminate people based on what they think its bad.

Even if we assume natural selection is an algorithm to bring the best: This algorithm is impossible to reach its goal, which means sometimes it will keep whats considered a worse state or trait.

Additionally, rejection by society is a different topic. "Society" is a type of herd mentality. Its not necessarily biological and it could be done by environmental factors or indoctrination.

I respect ctbing. The biological phenomenon is shitty and humans are intelligent enough to expose it. Their pain and suffering isn't natural selection, its because of the stupid biology. This stupid biology creates a body with an inevitable death and even the species extinction is inevitable, which clearly shows how life is a trap and people should stop glorifying life and the shitty biology.

 

[Captive of Mind]

All we are saying is that weaker genetics that can't handle the conditions of life die off. Over time, there are less and less of those genetics. Not that it's a God choosing anything. Do you know what I mean?

 

[Antigonish]

Care to elaborate?

No not really. I felt it was self explanatory. I was just saying no. Allot of smart people commit suicide. Being tired and exhausted doesn't make you stupid. Not being able to take it anymore doesn't make you dumb. It just makes you a tired and exhausted person who cant take anymore.

 

[LonelyDude15]

Additionally, rejection by society is a different topic. "Society" is a type of herd mentality. Its not necessarily biological and it could be done by environmental factors or indoctrination.

Social rejection activates the same regions of the brain as physical pain. People have clearly evolved to be social. If you couldn't get along with the pack in the past you'd be left behind and forgotten. That's how certain behaviours such as reciprocity and revenge emerged in modern social creatures. I'm just extending this concept to more aspects that people possess. If you're being rejected because of your looks and that rejection activates strong emotional pain, how is that not a form of social natural selection?

I was of this opinion for a while, but there is a possibility the offspring will suffer even if both parents are mentally healthy.

There are a lot of reasons to be skeptical of eugenics.

 

[whywere]

Hello! 1st off you are NOT stupid or a idiot period. Like I have said before in other posts, listen to how you think and feel. THAT IS NOT THE SIGN OF A IDIOT. You are very thoughtful in your wording and ideas and you help make up this wonderful global family that we have here. Like other people have said here, smart people ctb as well as any one. EVERYONE has their "place" in this world and the next and to have a low opinion of ones self makes me sad. You are a bright, thoughtful and caring, loving person who contributes so much to sanctioned suicide and to all of us. All the love and caring and empathy towards you to make you know that you are a valued family member here!!!

 

[muffin222]

I don't see it as a form of natural selection- even beautiful, wealthy, successful, and beloved people kill themselves. I just view suicide as one of many potential outcomes to an individual's situation. Most people won't choose it, but a subset of people will. That's all

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I certainly feel that I am not just stupid, but also evil. Even worse, I don't see myself changing because I hate myself too much and the only thing that would make me even want to change is the love of a woman that I also love. Unfortunately I am also aware that that wouldn't happen until I change first which won't happen until that happens so it's just a shitty cycle I'm locked out of. It does very much seem like the only way out for me is to end this biological chain and off myself.

Then again, in nature though, real stupidity is rewarded with accidental death, not suicide.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

I certainly feel that I am not just stupid, but also evil. Even worse, I don't see myself changing because I hate myself too much and the only thing that would make me even want to change is the love of a woman that I also love. Unfortunately I am also aware that that wouldn't happen until I change first which won't happen until that happens so it's just a shitty cycle I'm locked out of. It does very much seem like the only way out for me is to end this biological chain and off myself.

Then again, in nature though, real stupidity is rewarded with accidental death, not suicide.

Relationships are overrated, believe me, and finding love when you struggle with mental illness is next to impossible. All you get are codependent and toxic relationships that make you feel even worse than you felt at the beginning.

 

[braketimez]

What do you think about suicide as a form of natural selection against the idiotic, socially-inept and ugly members of society? I feel like I've been rejected by society like a virus getting pushed out by an immune system. As much as people seem to talk about empathy it seems like there are some people who are universally panned by everyone. Maybe for those people, CTB is just the expected natural result. For example, I'm an idiot, I'm pretty sure of this by now, no one wants anything to do with me and will definitely not care if I randomly disappeared someday. Maybe CTB is what I'm supposed to do to help improve society. Like to help weed out the low-IQ members of our society. It certainly feels like this is the direction that I'm being directed towards maybe I was just too stupid to recognize this until now.

I've considered this sentiment.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know the fact I want to kill myself automatically makes me weaker than others who don't.

I don't try to make myself feel better with stupid platitudes of, "oh, I'm not weak, im just mentally ill".

I'm weaker than the average because I'm even emotionally considering offing myself in the first place.

In this respect, by following through with it, I am definitely leaving the world to the fittest.

 

[Deleted member 17949]

I am pretty retarded and ugly so I think me dying is genetically a good thing, but idk if this is consistent enough among suicidal people for it to actually be natural selection.

 

[LonelyDude15]

People like Robin Williams and Anthony Bourdain commit suicide and they were not ugly, socially inept idiots.

Well I mean there are always outliers, right? Robin Williams was struggling with dementia and Anthony Bourdain has a long history of alcoholism. I really wish there was a way to prevent their deaths, perhaps medical technology will find a solution to chronic mental illness in the future?

 

[LastFlowers]

I think this does make a bit of sense and I'm pretty sure that's why euthanasia and eventually suicide in general will be accepted in most 'advanced' countries.
I think only healthy people with decent genes should be allowed to breed and be caregivers. Otherwise the offspring will suffer.

I see what you are saying but sometimes the "healthy" people with decent genes are horrible in other ways and contribute to the damage done to others that cause them to be suicidal. Also, are we talking about healthy vs unhealthy or suicidal vs not suicidal? Because I think that very question begs to be used as evidence of how "suicidality" being seen as a trait to be eliminated from the human race can never be so black and white.

I think the question of whether or not this is natural selection at play cannot be answered definitively since the reasons people ctb vary greatly and even come and go in some cases. I'm not sure it's even possible to de-select one's ability or desire to commit suicide, I think it will always be present in human beings.
Also, I see a lot of people on this site who could offer more to society than those off this site and those who have no plans to ever end their life. The whole idea of natural selection itself is becoming obsolete in some areas with the progress of medical science and such. There may be one suicidal person with the means to create a solution to another suicidal person's woes, or even many. But worth to the whole does not equal worth to the one individual who is leading an unsatisfactory or torturous life. I'm rambling now but maybe this is a subject to think more on later..

 

[BipolarGuy]

Ctbing isn't natural selection. Many people overestimate biology, they deal with stuff like evolution and genes as if its a god that choose the better which is actually a misconception. There is no true direction for it and it doesn't seek to eliminate people based on what they think its bad.

Even if we assume natural selection is an algorithm to bring the best: This algorithm is impossible to reach its goal, which means sometimes it will keep whats considered a worse state or trait.

Additionally, rejection by society is a different topic. "Society" is a type of herd mentality. Its not necessarily biological and it could be done by environmental factors or indoctrination.

I respect ctbing. The biological phenomenon is shitty and humans are intelligent enough to expose it. Their pain and suffering isn't natural selection, its because of the stupid biology. This stupid biology creates a body with an inevitable death and even the species extinction is inevitable, which clearly shows how life is a trap and people should stop glorifying life and the shitty biology.

This is true.

The assumption in this thread is that evolution is driven by sociological phenomenon and not just biological phenomenon.
An interesting assumption.

 

[Painless_end]

Suicide is the final terminal event in any living being's existence.

It weeds out those who are unable to maintain enough mental resilience to keep themselves alive till involuntary death.

The things needed to prevent suicide are mental resilience and fulfilment of mandatory needs like food, clothing, shelter.

 

[Meditation guide]

The things needed to prevent suicide are mental resilience and fulfilment of mandatory needs like food, clothing, shelter.

Also not suffering too much. Mentally or physically.

 

[Reach]

I think this does make a bit of sense and I'm pretty sure that's why euthanasia and eventually suicide in general will be accepted in most 'advanced' countries.
I think only healthy people with decent genes should be allowed to breed and be caregivers. Otherwise the offspring will suffer.

Unfortunately nature is way more complicated than that. Even if you selectively breed, choose the best genetics possible, it's too random to not bring people into this world who would suffer. You can lower the chances but it's absolutely impossible to not bring people this world who won't suffer/commit suicide/have defects/etc. And how do you decide of the 'healthy breeders'? Nobody should breed imo anyways, regardless their genetics, because there'll be always chances.

 

[Sinkinshyp]

What do you think about suicide as a form of natural selection against the idiotic, socially-inept and ugly members of society? I feel like I've been rejected by society like a virus getting pushed out by an immune system. As much as people seem to talk about empathy it seems like there are some people who are universally panned by everyone. Maybe for those people, CTB is just the expected natural result. For example, I'm an idiot, I'm pretty sure of this by now, no one wants anything to do with me and will definitely not care if I randomly disappeared someday. Maybe CTB is what I'm supposed to do to help improve society. Like to help weed out the low-IQ members of our society. It certainly feels like this is the direction that I'm being directed towards maybe I was just too stupid to recognize this until now.

"What do you think about suicide as a form of natural selection against the idiotic, socially-inept and ugly members of society?" first the world needs all kinds of people. Ugly to me is someone who is evil, hateful, mean. My brother just said this to my sister in law the other day- My sister could find the ugliest bum and find something in him and end up with this guy. First, my teens, 20's I always had a BF and 2 or 3 waiting on me to become single. My looks I've been told are quiet a bit above average. You could have the most georgous person but they are hate in their heart- that makes them the ugliest person. Socially-inept- many people we owe famous art and inventions to were socially-inept. Idiotic- I don't know what to say, you feel you are an idiot but you don't come across as one.

The big thing about suicide as a form of natural selection is one reason it is not legalized in many countries. That natural selection will be disabled, elderly, those who are unable to work and living on welfare or assistance. You get the idea.

 

[Disappointered]

I'm not sure what natural selection means as a technical term in different contexts but I am sure that eugenics is a good idea and was only deemed a bad one for political reasons. I'm also pretty sure science is as much an art as so-called consensus. Whatever shortcomings any eugenics program might end up having it will still lead to a better quality of life for future generations than the current situation.

 

[Lilacmoon]

I hope it selects me out to go soon.
<-- too stupid to add anything useful to the conversation.

 

[Ghost2211]

Lol moot in my case and any other members that have reproduced.

 

[Deleted member 94]

Yes I think about it often, and I have no problem removing my shitty genetics from the pool. Considering the world is overpopulated, you'd think they could give us a peaceful way out. It would benefit everyone.

The taxman doesn't include your shitty genetics as part of your tax return.

 

[Futile]

Mother nature is a fascist whore that hates all her imperfect children, so it wouldn't surprise me if she uses suicide between the other things to keep her genocide going.

But I'm not going to wage a war, I'm way too tired and if this is the deal, then i'm gonna accept