Discussion Stop justifying & Making excuses to CTB. You could stop the pain if you chose to!

[Dawn0071111]

"...you dont know the future..."
"...if you say it's not going to get better that is what you have determined..."
"....wether you think you can or can't- you are right..."
"...If things don't get better is because that is the path you have chosen..."
"....stop saying you 'can't'- you can do anything you put your mind to, its not that you can't its that you won't..."
"...giving up is a choice you dont have to make..."
"...you are justifying staying stuck where you are..."

This is the stuff I got from the last convo I had.

I have stopped talking to anyone. Why is everyone so hell bent on convincing me that I have the power to change. How can they prove this? It's always viewed as a choice. Everyone wants to challenge my belief that a part of me is broken beyond repair. To be fair, they don't have to accept my analysis. They say its "just the depression talking" which is so invalidating. I don't know. I guess that's why I just said fuck it, I don't want to put in whatever work or effort it would take to stop the pain.... How can we really know if we have a real choice or not? I feel like if the pain of change is worse than the pain I'm in now, what's the point? Especially with no gurantee? Maybe this post doesn't make sense. What do yall think? Am I being difficult & obstinate? Should I pick one perspective & stick with it? The concept of choice is very muddled when it comes to pain, death & possibility of recovery.

 

[GoneAndDirty]

I also hate it when people don't trust yourself when you say that you tried everything or that you just don't have the power to change anything considering your situation.

People thinks that if they can do something, or if they have a situation, it means that they worked for it, not that they had a lot of chance, or a social circle, thanks to the education they got, or money, or both. Most people only see in their own neurotypical view of the world and it's really heartbreaking to hear that you're just lazy when you tried to do your best your whole life.

 

[HGL91]

@Dawn0071111 No, I think you're making perfect sense. Like, when you said, "What's the point of changing if the pain of changing is worse than the pain you're in now, and with no guarantee?" That seems super valid to me. That's my mentality too!

Every time, I've picked myself back up, and have lived life fast-paced to work hard at work, keep a clean house, exercise, keep my finances in order, keep up with insurance payments, stay updated at the DMV so I don't get any tickets, socialize with people, date guys, and do all the things people say create a happy life, I end up feeling overwhelmed, anxious, and wondering why people strive for this when it's still so physically and emotionally painful to maintain!

 

[cryptic_cynic]

I think you are right on. I think people who say things like that are oversimplifying the difficult concept of choice and/or free will because it makes them feel better to believe in such things than to consider the possibility that some people are doomed to pain and suffering no matter what choices they try to make.

As you said, they can't prove anything they say. It's just a subjective belief. Which is why everyone should have the right to determine for themselves whether living is worth it or not. No matter what they tell themselves, no one can ever fully understand another's experience.

 

[Stan]

I think some pro-lifers have a form of Munchausen syndrome where they try and force a position on you. Its great that they are not suffering and yes I am jealous of them and their perfect lives, but when you hear those platitudes is does feel like its belittling where you as an individual are without having an ounce of understanding. Perhaps in some situations therapy works - good news for them. Bad news for everyone else as its assumed that the individual isn't taking therapy seriously. There is also the 'saviour' syndrome that they feel really good about themselves because they said or did something. F-ing selfish in my view

 

[Thetimeisnow]

I think it's difficult because there are people that have felt the way we feel and managed to get through it and ultimately feel differently about it... but knowing myself, it's hard to think that could be a reality for me, and I'm also unwilling to put the work in to see.

 

[Wayfaerer]

They say its "just the depression talking" which is so invalidating.

GOD I hate hearing this one so much. If I weren't trapped in a hopeless situation, then I wouldn't be depressed. I'm not "depressed" because I have a brain that naturally lacks serotonin. I can't listen to people anymore even professionals are biased from their pseudo-scientific viewpoint.

 

[TAW122]

A lot of the things come from assholes, sometimes from anti-suicide people who want to push their agenda and/or make themselves feel significant. They don't really understand that things could get worse and that not everyone's situation is the same. A lot of people are flawed in such that they believe in such fallacies such as cognitive bias, confirmation bias, just world fallacy, and many more. They could hardly think for themselves or think about the world, situation, critically and logically.

 

[Dawn0071111]

GOD I hate hearing this one so much. If I weren't trapped in a hopeless situation, then I wouldn't be depressed. I'm not "depressed" because I have a brain that naturally lacks serotonin. I can't listen to people anymore even professionals are biased from their pseudo-scientific viewpoint.

Typically we are challenged on the assertion that "we are trapped in a hopeless situation" >>> That we can't know its hopeless, that we are only trapped because we chose to... that we can't know the future>>> that there is always hope if we want it.... blah.... I can't say its not totally true.... but they can't know our truth either.

 

[hobbydevil]

I hate getting those phrases. Though I can also understand why people are using them. It's either that or "It WILL get better/easier with time!", because most people don't know what to say at all but they'd feel bad if they said nothing. So they reach for hopeful platitudes and/or this passive-aggressive "it's your choice, if you don't want to try that's up to you..." tough love deal.

But I try to go easy on the people using them anyway, even if it's annoying and not helpful. They just can't walk in my shoes and live in my head and see for themselves what a mess my life has become, and how hopeless the things depressing me the most are.

 

[mnjkl]

It's annoying but I don't think you can really blame them for it. In order to cope with the horrible reality that we all live in, many people have deluded themselves into believing in a different version of reality that is more tolerable. I think when they're telling you those things they're also trying to reassure themselves because deep down they know it's not true.

 

[IsadoraBeauxdraps]

I feel guilty for too long time because of that. It's peaceful to be with all of you.

 

[GreyMonkey]

I understand this.

And I wrestle with it myself.

In one side I do believe that change is possible. That it is possible to work hard and grow and change and become a better person.

On the other side I don't believe it's possible FOR ME.

This is where I get stuck. Because I've accepted the position that I cant change, and because of this deeply held belief of hopelessness, I don't even want to try. Trying seems too much effort. I'd much rather think about killing myself than put in the effort needed to make a serious attempt at recovery.

This is self hate talking.

How do we recover if the fundamental premise that we need to recover from is our own self hate? It's very shaky ground to build off.

I haven't resolved it. And I really would rather return to source and merge with everything, or get a restart... than try to sort myself out. I just wish I didn't have to go through the violence of suicide to do so.

It's an almost impossible position to be in. Something has to give.

I'm studying counselling and psychotherapy at University, ironically. And I keep getting a deeper and deeper understanding of what causes these issues in us humans. I also have a sense of what helps us recover from them.

Two words: belonging and purpose.

I am certain that everyone on here, apart from those suffering from permanently painful afflictions, is here because of a void of one or both of these things.

In our current social environment it's a fight for these things. And if the childhood we had did not nurture our innate ability to align with these and instead we suffered enough stress (trauma) whether it be in large and significant chunks or in many minor ones - then our beingness is unequipped to find our way into this society. It's so sad.

Because the cure IS possible. I am certain that if we were introduced to a group where we can feel at ease and comfortable to belong without a mask (which is what this forum provides, unfortunately virtual connection is not enough to heal the attachment ruptures in the brain and nervous system) and with that are given purpose - meaningful work... within a short period of time we would feel much much better. I am certain of it.

And yet the rat race of psychiatric hospitals, drugs and therapists who don't actually truly connect to ones humanity only serves to further alienate and disconnect the already fragile selves that we are.

I feel for us. I feel for a world in which we don't yet understand what is needed to truly create mental health for those who need it most. We prevent death by any means possible, yet we do not support life.

It's a fucking tragedy.

Ok rant over.