Story Starting Ketamine Treatments

[HighFlight]

After decades of depression, anxiety and a variety of other MH and physical issues, I am going to start Ketamine Assisted Therapy (KAT) tomorrow. Thank you to those who responded to my earlier questions around ketamine in a different post.

Disclaimer: I'll apologize for the potentially long messages in this thread. I'm planning on using this as away to document my experience and progress. Accordingly, I will try to update this thread after each session. I hope others may find it useful and/or be willing to share their experiences.

Background: I've tried numerous other antidepressants with no luck and have been feeling stuck over the past few years. I have buried all of my emotions since childhood and they finally exploded shortly before the start of the pandemic. It has been impacting my work and relations with family. My mind is racing and pulling me in too many directions at the same time. I am unable to concentrate, and have no motivation to do anything. This is very tough for me, as historically I've been goal oriented and need to feel like I am contributing. Additionally, I have no friends and suffer from social phobia, so building new friendships is near impossible.

The KAT sessions are made up of three individual sessions: 1) an "intention" session, 2) a ketamine session, 3) a follow-up session. I had the intention session earlier in the week, where I worked with my therapist to determine what I wanted to get out of the session. We agreed to go with a general "I want to be able to accept myself as I am". Tomorrow will be the actual ketamine session. It is given under therapist's supervision using an oral troche. I'm supposed to keep the troche in my mouth for 12- 20 minutes and then spit anything left out. Once administered, I get to just hang out for about an hour in a dark room and with some music. Afterwards, I get a snack and go home. Therapist says there's a possibility of doing some talking then, but will depend on how I'm feeling. But the real therapy happens next week at the follow-up session. This set of sessions will continue every 3-4 weeks.

While I am looking forward to possibly getting some relief, I am also scared of what I might reveal (or even discover) about myself. There are things I have not revealed to my therapist, and she is good enough to know I'm hiding things. I've spent a lifetime keeping some of this stuff hidden from the world and am scared to death about revealing it. (I've posted in the suicide forum about this.)

 

[cheese.out]

Thank you for sharing your experience and keeping us updated. I hope this therapy will give you the relief your looking for.

Very excited to hear about your first session

 

[d3c96524be95]

Nice project. Funilly enough, I stated my Ketamine protocol yesterday and got my first dose today morning. I don't want to pollute your diary, so I'll be posting my own followup posts in my thread. It may be interesteding to compare both our experiences afterwards.

I hope that ketamine will help both of us. I'm looking forwrard to hearing from you.

 

[HighFlight]

I had my first Ketamine session today, and it was not what I expected. Granted, it was my first time using a disassociative/hallucinogenic drug. But once it took hold, it was an exciting journey through the universe. The best way to describe it was like Jody Foster's trip in the movie "Contact." I never saw anything tangible - just abstract colors and shapes - and then the feeling of flying through a tunnel to the next set of colors and shapes. Not a bad experience - calm and peaceful.

We started with a 250mg lozenge and held it in my mouth for 15 minutes. My therapist told me that it would be between 12 and 20 minutes. The taste wasn't pleasant, but not too bad - like a metallic lemon. The drug began to take effect after 4 minutes. At this point, I was still aware of my surroundings, but noticing the room no longer looked real. The effect strengthened until I removed the troche at the 15-minute mark. My therapist helped me put some eye shades on, and I drifted for 60 - 70 minutes.

The trip was pleasant, and I would do it again. Some things that I recall were

• No feeling of my body or anything around me
• Therapist had picked out some music, and I was very aware of that
• At one point, the colors shifted to what one might expect of the south pole, and at the same time, I became cold. That feeling of cold lasted the remainder of the session and even after I woke up.
• While I had no sense of my surroundings, I kept hearing different words. The ones I remember include: father, family, stay curious, and remember your intentions. Note: I didn't feel that "father" referred to my dad, but a larger sense of the word. I am trying to figure out what to make of this.
• Waking up took a while, and I needed to check to make sure my hands, feet, and face still existed. :)

The therapist remained in the room during the session to ensure I was safe. Afterward, she stated that once the eye shades were on, I didn't move or say anything until coming out of it. We talked for another 30 minutes while I regained my senses, and the session ended. Besides being tired the rest of the day, there were no side effects like nausea.

Monday will be my follow-up therapy session, and I'll be interested to see how that works. (And for those following me, a brief moment touched on my other life, but it quickly faded. I'm curious if there's anything relevant there or if I had suppressed it deeper than I thought.)

 

[olearius]

I really hope it works for you. I'm glad your first trip was pleasant! Hoping the following sessions are pleasant.

 

[HighFlight]

It's been a little over 24 hours since ending my first Ketamine session. Mentally, I'm at the lowest point I've been in a long time. CTB is at the front of my mind and everything is moving me to tears. I can't focus on anything. Therapist mentioned that the weekend might be emotional, but I wasn't expecting this. But, I will keep the faith until I see her again. Also, As I mentioned in my last post, I became cold during my journey. I have been cold ever since.

Is this all normal with Ketamine?

 

[d3c96524be95]

It's been a little over 24 hours since ending my first Ketamine session. Mentally, I'm at the lowest point I've been in a long time. CTB is at the front of my mind and everything is moving me to tears. I can't focus on anything. Therapist mentioned that the weekend might be emotional, but I wasn't expecting this. But, I will keep the faith until I see her again. Also, As I mentioned in my last post, I became cold during my journey. I have been cold ever since.

Is this all normal with Ketamine?

I also feel very sad after my second dose of Ketamine today. I cried a bunch of times for nothing. I hope it won't last.

I guess it's normal . Good luck.

 

[HighFlight]

The weekend was uneventful, although I felt overly emotional. Even the little things would start me crying.

Had my follow-up session with my therapist this evening... We discussed the journey last we and looked for meaning or common themes in what I saw, heard and/or felt. No major breakthroughs, but did find a couple of patterns that may prove interesting. Next session is scheduled for late August.

In the meantime, I'd love to get your thoughts and opinions.

• If you're in Ketamine therapy, what's your protocol? Intake method and frequency?
  My therapist seems to think once a month is enough, but my research seems to indicate a lot more frequent, especially in the beginning
• When on your journey, do you see or hear tangible things? For me, everything was abstract, which has made it difficult to explain.
• Has anyone had a similar issue with temperature? I got really cold during my journey, and it was a couple days before I felt warm again.

 

[d3c96524be95]

The weekend was uneventful, although I felt overly emotional. Even the little things would start me crying.

I am also very emotional for some reason. I start crying for no reason when somebody talks to me. This has never happened to me before

In the meantime, I feel more suicidal and detached than ever before. I don't see value in anything anymore and ready to commit. I think that is concerning from a medical standpoint and I doubt it's the intended effect.

Had my follow-up session with my therapist this evening... We discussed the journey last we and looked for meaning or common themes in what I saw, heard and/or felt. No major breakthroughs, but did find a couple of patterns that may prove interesting. Next session is scheduled for late August.

I don't have follow-up sessions like you (which I honestly prefer as I'd find them odd). In the meantime, I don't think I've read in the litterature that such followup sessions were proven to be useful.

In the meantime, I'd love to get your thoughts and opinions.

• If you're in Ketamine therapy, what's your protocol? Intake method and frequency?
  My therapist seems to think once a month is enough, but my research seems to indicate a lot more frequent, especially in the beginning

I'm not 100% sure because they don't explain everything and I tend to forget, but the protocol here seems: gradual Spravato inhalation up to 84mg twice a week for two weeks. Maybe they go 112mg in rare cases, I'm not dure. Then maintenance dose every month or so.

• When on your journey, do you see or hear tangible things? For me, everything was abstract, which has made it difficult to explain.

Same as you, most of it is very abstract, bur I can come up with random irrelevant words of things I've experienced at one point in the journey like "cloud", "ant", "arrow". But it doesn't feel relevant or interesting at all.

• Has anyone had a similar issue with temperature? I got really cold during my journey, and it was a couple days before I felt warm again.

No, sorry. I remember feeling pretty cold during the sessions, but that's something I actually enjoy. Once the session ends, I'm back to normal.

 

[Daft-Bear]

Keep me up to date, I've been considering this so if it works for you I may try to do it as well! :)

 

[HighFlight]

I feel more suicidal and detached than ever before

This seems strange and concerning as I thought Ketamine was supposed to be used in cases of suicidal ideation. Although I also have had more thoughts about death and dying since the treatment, but not in terms of ctb. Hopefully, these feelings will diminish for you after some more treatments.

 

[HighFlight]

I had my therapy session this evening in prep for another Ketamine session on Friday.

During my last trip, I had set the intention to help me accept me for who I am. After thinking about what happened during the last trip, I believe that I was shown who I am - cold, isolated and alone. Sometimes, the truth hurts.

For my next trip, we are planning on upping the dose to 300 mg, and try to explorer the reason why I'm like this. I'm still working on the exact intention, but are going to shift the playlist to start with something I can connect with - Canon in D.

The first trip gave me a glimpse at something warm, welcoming, and comforting. I also hope to find my way there.

More this weekend...

 

[bluesoapyskies]

good luck. wishing the best for you

 

[d3c96524be95]

I had my therapy session this evening in prep for another Ketamine session on Friday.

During my last trip, I had set the intention to help me accept me for who I am. After thinking about what happened during the last trip, I believe that I was shown who I am - cold, isolated and alone. Sometimes, the truth hurts.

For my next trip, we are planning on upping the dose to 300 mg, and try to explorer the reason why I'm like this. I'm still working on the exact intention, but are going to shift the playlist to start with something I can connect with - Canon in D.

The first trip gave me a glimpse at something warm, welcoming, and comforting. I also hope to find my way there.

More this weekend...

I hope it'll go well for you and I wish you'll find the responses you're looking for.

If I'm correct, 300mg of ingested ketamine should be approximately equivalent to 60mg of intranasal esketamine. I made my two bad trips at 84mg, but as far as I remember 56mg was the best dose for me. Everybody's different, but you may experience something a lot stronger than what you've been used to so far, be prepared. The effect of Ketamine do not seem linear to me.

As I made two bad trips, I'm not really well placed to provide any advice, but I think one of my many mistakes was that I couldn't help but focusing on my body and the symptoms of Ketamine rather than the trip itself. With the help of a guide, it should be easier to make the trip fruitful.

Good luck. I hope you'll feel better.

 

[HighFlight]

In a follow-up to my first ketamine-assisted psychotherapy session last month, I had my second session last Friday. Interestingly, it was a completely different experience than the first. This trip was less about jumping from place to place and focused more on specific views.

This journey began with an increased dosage of 300 mg lozenge, and I held it in my mouth for about 20 minutes. It took significantly longer for the drug to start to take effect - almost 10 minutes as opposed to 4 minutes. The journey ended quickly and more abruptly than the first session. It was over in 60 minutes, as opposed to 90 minutes in early August.

The first journey's intention was to accept me as I am, and I believe I was shown who I am - "Isolated, Cold, an Outsider." This journey's intention was to learn why I am like that. Throughout the journey, the words "just watch" kept flashing through my head. I'm still processing what I have learned, but I labeled this journey "Angels and Demons." (Thanks to the wonders of Generative AI, I've attached a few of my images.)

This journey opened under a vast starry sky - with peace and solitude. This morphed into a spinning spiral of stars that formed a tunnel I was pulled through. The stars in the tunnel turned blood red and eventually ended in a singular, round disk with what appeared to be an ancient symbol.


Note: Unlike the first journey, where the transitions between scenes felt like being pulled through a tunnel, the changes were more of a fade-out/fade-in effect in this journey.

The symbol faded, and I found myself in a vast dome building. Other entities were in the building, but I couldn't see them. I just felt their presence. The dome roof started collapsing, and I was overlooking a scorched landscape.


After watching the geography and the blowing ash for a while, this faded away, and I found myself staring at a dark gray wall. The wall had a few bricks missing. Through the hole, I could see a lush, green landscape beyond.


Like my first journey, there were many other visions in this journey that I didn't get a memorable feeling from.

I meet again with my therapist on Monday evening and discuss these visions and the general feelings around the trip. My logical brain is still processing and trying to make sense of all this. But I realize it could be nothing more than a good psychedelic trip. More to come...

Please note that I am using ketamine as part of psychotherapy, as opposed to using it for its biological changes to the brain. As a result, my focus is more on the trip's sights, sounds, and feelings.

 

[HighFlight]

My last ketamine trip really messed with my head, and it could simply be trying to find too much meaning in drug-induced psychedelic trip.

I've scheduled my next journey for October 6.

I'll update more as we get closer.

 

[d3c96524be95]

I'm wishing you good luck for your next trip, you're very brave to keep up in spite of your unpleasant experiences. I hope the last trip didn't mess you up too much though. Did you have strong dissociative effects?

As it so happens, my next session is scheduled for the 6th just like yours. However, the hospital left me a voice message today telling me they wanted to move up the appointment to earlier in the afternoon, which I don't think is compatible with my job. Well, to be fully honest I could probably arrange it, but my incentives to attend the sessions have become almost nonexistent at this point. I've noticed Ketamine had less and less effects on me (negative as well as positive); I got tolerant. Yet, *every time*, the immediate dissociative effects are very uncomfortable, the taste is horrible, and the transient euphoria and "inner peace" last a few hours at best which is definitely not worth it (I might as well take Xanax and achieve almost the same positive effects without all the sickness). Before my previous session, I explained to the hospital doctor that I saw no point insisting on Esketamine if the positive effects were so infinitesimal that I wasn't even able to convince myself it was more than placebo. As usual, he didn't listen at all, he increased my anti-depressants doses, and he tried to persuade me to continue the sessions with no other point that "they" had strong reasons to believe it was effective… Same circular reasoning I've faced in psychiatry for the last 15 years. After all, who am I to know if I'm feeling better or not … I did the session reluctantly, but that consultation almost convinced me to give up on my antidepressants as well. I'm only taking them to make my psychiatrists and family happy at this point. If they're not even acknowledging ineffectiveness, then that's just a masquerade and I'm no longer playing this game.

BTW, I'm almost certain I wrote you a longer message just before the site went down and lost data a few weeks ago. Don't know if you were in time to read it. Unfortunately, I can't remember what I wrote (probably nothing too important, no worries ).

Wishing you all the best.

 

[HighFlight]

@d3c96524be95 - sorry to hear the ketamine is not working for you. Fortunately, I haven't had any real negative side effects, and I kind of enjoy the 60-90 minutes of floating. But, it's not helping with the depression or the therapy. And that last trip was a little weird and left my therapist and I thinking "I have no idea what this could mean." So maybe on Friday I will get some answers, or maybe just more questions.

I sorry to hear you left me a long reply and I didn't see it because of the outage. I was really curious to see what others thought of my last trip. But I had a feeling it might be yoo bizarre, even by SaSu standards.

So you started back in August if I remember correctly. The American Family Physician's group recommends this treatment regime:



How closely have you been following this, and what week are you in? (You can ignore the cost column. We have to pay for pretty much everything unless it's something our insurance covers. We've got a messed up Healthcare system in the US, but that's a topic for another thread.)

I hope your session goes well on Friday, with minimal negative side effects. I'll probably update the thread sometime this weekend, and we can compare notes.

 

[LittleJem]

I'm currently on tianeptine sulfate plus escitalopram. The tianeptine sulfate is an tricyclics anti-depressant that has less side effects than others in its class.Am recommending it in case you haven't tried it. I tried almost everything- including ketamine- and this is my best combo so far. I do have suicidal thoughts today but I can function so an improvement on without meds. I've also just been back on them a week...as was using drugs too and got lax about taking them then my mood crashed. The tianeptine is prescribed in France but not UK/US but I get it online. Just recommending in case it helps.

 

[HighFlight]

The tianeptine is prescribed in France but not UK/US but I get it online.

I realize you're in France, but you have apparently done your homework. Do you know if it's available in the US, or if it's not approved for use at all in the US.

 

[LittleJem]

I realize you're in France, but you have apparently done your homework. Do you know if it's available in the US, or if it's not approved for use at all in the US.

it's not prescribed in USA and not available. You might be able to ship it in as a nootropic. Or I do know a way it can be shipped if you PM me.

In all honesty, my evening tonight has been terrible and my day has been pretty low. I might not be on a high enough dose yet as I am taking 12.5 mg and the dose is 3x that. It is better than without it. I have been through so many drugs - such as occasional LSD, which also helped, so not sure if I am an example or not. I have mislaid some of mine, so if I find it I will raise my dose and report back.

I am usually on weed edibles as well - and in combination with the meds life is bearable, but off them euch.

I wish I had more hope to share.
I'm not in France, am in UK. I get it online and shipped.

 

[d3c96524be95]

@d3c96524be95 - sorry to hear the ketamine is not working for you. Fortunately, I haven't had any real negative side effects, and I kind of enjoy the 60-90 minutes of floating. But, it's not helping with the depression or the therapy. And that last trip was a little weird and left my therapist and I thinking "I have no idea what this could mean." So maybe on Friday I will get some answers, or maybe just more questions.

I sorry to hear you left me a long reply and I didn't see it because of the outage. I was really curious to see what others thought of my last trip. But I had a feeling it might be yoo bizarre, even by SaSu standards.

So you started back in August if I remember correctly. The American Family Physician's group recommends this treatment regime:

View attachment 120861

How closely have you been following this, and what week are you in? (You can ignore the cost column. We have to pay for pretty much everything unless it's something our insurance covers. We've got a messed up Healthcare system in the US, but that's a topic for another thread.)

I hope your session goes well on Friday, with minimal negative side effects. I'll probably update the thread sometime this weekend, and we can compare notes.

Yeah, that's basically the protocol I'm following. The only exceptions so far were one session at 28mg during the induction phase because of the tolerance issue, and one maintenance session missed because of work. Apart from that, I'm following thoroughly.

 

[mushroommamma]

I realize you're in France, but you have apparently done your homework. Do you know if it's available in the US, or if it's not approved for use at all in the US.

Ketamine is approved by the FDA in the US under the brand named Spravato and is administered inter nasally like Flonase. The starting dose is 56mg and the increase during the initial 8 treatments can be increased to 84mg.

I currently go to a facility and they administer the 84mg Spravato with an additional 90mg ketamine in 0.9% sodium chloride solution intramuscularly, similar to a flu shot.

 

[HighFlight]

@mushroommamma - how have your treatments been going? Are they helping?

 

[mushroommamma]

@mushroommamma - how have your treatments been going? Are they helping?

So long as I can stay on them, yes. I keep running into insurance issues.
When I started treatments, it was December of 2021. Up to that point, I was on my typical treatment regimen of medications I'm currently on as well as weekly therapy. Even then, I was subject to a severe CTB attempt with hospitalization (emergency room, then psych hospital) every 2-5 weeks. And not like baby CTB attempts. Like 75g +/- 50g depending on how much I took of beta blockers. Some not so pretty results. Anyways, I was averaging about 10 attempts a year over the last 20+ years, with the more escalated types like mentioned above occurring from age 18 and on. The first 10-20 were as a teenager and way less often but still saw the insides of hospitals more than I can count on two hands. That was kind of my life before ket treatments. 8-10 months out the year, in the hospital from attempts and "stabilization" and the other 2-4 months trying to live a normal life but mostly being depressed. My psych gave me the option of either going back into the hospital for 6 months and under go ECT treatments or give ket a try.

The first 6 treatments over 3 weeks per the facility I was going to at that time had their "I.M" sessions needing 6 treatments utilizing intramuscular administration over 3 weeks with each session increasing the dosage until finding the right dosage that works for each patient. During that 6 treatment introduction, I had one more attempt but it was not nearly as severe as the previous attempts but still put me in the hospitals. After that, I was actually able to live CTB feels free for over a year and a half. March of this year, 2023, my insurance changed and I could no longer receive treatment at that facility as they didn't accept my new insurance. I ended up going 3 months without and it was very similar to cold turkey quitting anti-depressants where I was okay at first but the therapeutic level eventually went away and the spiral endured, all until I tried to CTB again late May, beginning of June. After being released, I found a new facility and provider who did work with my insurance however they do the eskatemine, Spravato, as their means of treatment compared to the intramuscular treatments I had been doing for over that years time. We were able to settle on doing a combination of Spravato and intramuscular 0.9% ketamine fluid to get me back to the dose I'm supposed to be on to keep me healthy and it began working amazingly again. Problem now is that my current insurance is starting to be douche canoes and trying to push me out of treatment by saying it's not medically necessary, without even asking about my entire history. They'd much rather me not go or have these treatments which I know for me, eventually leads back to CTB.

I find ketamine absolutely life changing for the better for those that want to continue seeking treatment and have a great experince with the medication. Likewise, the same is said with the current MDMA and psyilocibin treatments becoming availble. All have amazing results for those that maybe just aren't ready to tap out yet and that said, I would highly encourage them to try the treatments. As someone who has an absolute terrible time with western medication given my metabolic rate, interactions with chemicals and length of time I've been on medications, its unfathomable to be the only way. I would push anyone willing to try to try ket treatments.


Likewise, knowing my personal situation issues with insurance and such, I'm just here to be unbiased for yall but I'm on my way to the bus station. Just not sure when I'm getting that ticket yet.

 

[HighFlight]

@mushroommamma - thank you for sharing so much about yourself and your treatments. I'm sorry you've had to deal with all of that, and for so many years. But I'm glad that ketamine has given you some relief.

My friend @d3c96524be95 has been on ketamine (the nasal spray) in this manner since August (?). But I'm using ketamine in a different manner- in conjunction with psychotherapy. Unfortunately, I'm not seeing the same benefits, as I get a session about once every 3-4 weeks.

Four+ decades of hiding my problems from the world has made it such that I can appear completely normal. As a result, the psychiatrist doesn't think I need the full ketamine treatment. If he only knew that I'm standing next to you at the bus station.

 

[HighFlight]

I had my 3rd ketamine journey last Friday and it seemed to be successful. The journey itself was pleasant and relaxing. But more importantly, the message I received was positive and forgiving.

First, we lowered the dose back to 250mg, and it took about 15 minutes to really feel the effects. The overall trip lasted about 120 minutes, and was an enjoyable trip around the universe. Unlike the last trip, this one did not include any definitive visions, but was more of blowing pixels - constantly changing.

Throughout the trip, I received two messages repeatedly - "Just Be' and "You're doing fine". Both of these felt very positive. The "Just Be" felt like it mean that I shouldn't worry as much as I do, and to simply exist in this lifetime. No right or wrong, no judgements. "You're doing fine" felt like it was aimed at my own self judgement, and a reminder that everything is OK, even if it feels like things are out of control.

At one point, there was an interesting mental conversation about which came first, the universe or our cognizance. The debate ended with the understanding that they were one in the same. (You have to love psychedelics.)

Anyway, this trip was nothing like the past one, and after resting all of Friday and Saturday, I'm actually feeling a little better. Time will tell how long this lasts, but it is the first time in several years where I've truly had hope for myself.

 

[Linalez]

The tianeptine is prescribed in France but not UK/US but I get it online. Just recommending in case it helps.

Hi. Where are you from in France?
Are you looking for a ctb partner?
Please contact me.