Started CTB process

[Dgafajwd]

I feel so ill atm. I have started CTB process. I have taken 20/48 paracetamol pills, does anyone know how to stop yourself from being sick without extra pills?

 

[Praestat_Mori]

You should go to the ER immediately! Paracetamol won't kill you, only increases your pain and suffering.

 

[Dgafajwd]

You should go to the ER immediately! Paracetamol won't kill you, only increases your pain and suffering.

I did in the end. I was in hospital all day yesterday and most of today. Got forced onto a drip for 21hrs and was in a lot of pain

 

[idontwantausername]

Did you tell them it was an attempt?

 

[february in alaska]

I did in the end. I was in hospital all day yesterday and most of today. Got forced onto a drip for 21hrs and was in a lot of pain

I'm so sorry, that sounds awful. I hope you're able to recover quickly and without any complications

 

[SVEN]

Best wishes in your distress.

 

[Dgafajwd]

Did you tell them it was an attempt?

My parents found me and instantly knew that it was an attempt. They took me to hospital for blood tests to confirm. After that, I had to start treatment and was told I'm not allowed to leave.

I'm so sorry, that sounds awful. I hope you're able to recover quickly and without any complications

I lied to get myself out of hospital faster which has now caused me to be in a lot of pain. The 2nd blood tests came back normal so Im hoping the pain goes away today.

 

[DeadManLiving]

I lied to get myself out of hospital faster which has now caused me to be in a lot of pain.

Well that was one hell of a strategic checkmate.

If you were never formally committed and there are no previous ephi records of suicidal ideation beyond third party sources of collateral accounts which you could claim are unreliable and misleading due to narcissistic abuse, that's kind of what I did. Also raise the privacy rule under HIPAA, once the e emergency abates the exception no longer applies and raising an objection to contact your parents stands, to do so after would be a violation. If the only sources of information to establish dangerousness under your state's statutes for commitments follows the rules for the courts, then the rules of evidence apply and hearsay is not a counterpoint or relevant in the commitment process and is an admissible in the certificate.

There needs to be clear and convincing evidence of dangerousness to self, others, property or the public. Some states have lower standards like reasonable belief or good cause, but if you're in a clear and convincing State then the bar is fairly High and their must be demonstrable and substantiative information, history, behavioral examination and in the totality of all elements must arise to the sufficiency of evidence that if not involuntarily restricted to a facility then the likelihood of imminent or reasonably foreseeable harm is highly probable; clear and convincing unlike a preponderance of evidence is greater than 51%.


Psychiatrists who summarily commit patients on hearsay statements from third parties risk being sanctioned or outright sued for massive damages such as professional disqualification from certain professions and impeded future employability beyond a civil liberty rights violation in addition to possible malpractice grounds which is why I always ask the attending psychiatrist as if I am a lawyer cross-examining him or her : hmmm lawyer cough Mrs. X, when was the last time you were exposed to any training materials or subject matter on most recent legal criterion for civil commitments in the state of x? Does XYZ provide this training, if not who? When was the last time you red a screening certificate in whole? Good, then you would know what the definition for dangerousness is, when does the civil commitment statute consider a person dangerous to self according to the screening certificate that you had previously testified and admitted to reading and whole define, not your definition but the definition that you read in whole preiously?

Then they try to terminate the encounter but I remind them that they can't do that because there might attending physician and under a physician patient relationship there is a fiduciary duty of care and to walk out on a patient that has questions would be a breach that duty and automatic grounds for a summary adverse adjudication by the medical boards licensed with.

And then I would pick out all of their deviations from the standard of care. Like the first time they never asked me who my doctor was but insisted on contacting my parents, so my cross examination was. Dr. Y, at no point in our encounter you even bothered to ask who my standing physician was, the most crucial and fundamental primary source of collateral? Are you prepared to answer questions before the board of psychiatry and any other boards or health oversight agencies that your license with?

I keep asking them legal questions that they are fucking clueless on and then I emphasize that the nurses and sitters in the room at the time of the examinations would be testifying against them by deposition or understand as witnesses, corroborating they're deficiencies in standard of practice and egregious deviations should they choose to commit me involuntarily solely based on unfounded statements made by third parties which, if you go as far as filing a temporary civil commitment hold, you would be acting knowingly and with the knowledge that the facts are not reliable at the time which would be a willful disregard and malfeasance.

Then they start asking me what do I know this and I just keep hammering them with more questions until they fall apart and let me go. Better the devil they know than the devil they don't.

After the first time in the psych ward I absorbed everything I could on the legal mechanics of commitments and all of the doctors start falling apart after my grilling and let me go lol

I wonder what it was that you came up with that made them release you that fast! ?

 

[Dgafajwd]

Well that was one hell of a strategic checkmate.

If you were never formally committed and there are no previous ephi records of suicidal ideation beyond third party sources of collateral accounts which you could claim are unreliable and misleading due to narcissistic abuse, that's kind of what I did. Also raise the privacy rule under HIPAA, once the e emergency abates the exception no longer applies and raising an objection to contact your parents stands, to do so after would be a violation. If the only sources of information to establish dangerousness under your state's statutes for commitments follows the rules for the courts, then the rules of evidence apply and hearsay is not a counterpoint or relevant in the commitment process and is an admissible in the certificate.

There needs to be clear and convincing evidence of dangerousness to self, others, property or the public. Some states have lower standards like reasonable belief or good cause, but if you're in a clear and convincing State then the bar is fairly High and their must be demonstrable and substantiative information, history, behavioral examination and in the totality of all elements must arise to the sufficiency of evidence that if not involuntarily restricted to a facility then the likelihood of imminent or reasonably foreseeable harm is highly probable; clear and convincing unlike a preponderance of evidence is greater than 51%.


Psychiatrists who summarily commit patients on hearsay statements from third parties risk being sanctioned or outright sued for massive damages such as professional disqualification from certain professions and impeded future employability beyond a civil liberty rights violation in addition to possible malpractice grounds which is why I always ask the attending psychiatrist as if I am a lawyer cross-examining him or her : hmmm lawyer cough Mrs. X, when was the last time you were exposed to any training materials or subject matter on most recent legal criterion for civil commitments in the state of x? Does XYZ provide this training, if not who? When was the last time you red a screening certificate in whole? Good, then you would know what the definition for dangerousness is, when does the civil commitment statute consider a person dangerous to self according to the screening certificate that you had previously testified and admitted to reading and whole define, not your definition but the definition that you read in whole preiously?

Then they try to terminate the encounter but I remind them that they can't do that because there might attending physician and under a physician patient relationship there is a fiduciary duty of care and to walk out on a patient that has questions would be a breach that duty and automatic grounds for a summary adverse adjudication by the medical boards licensed with.

And then I would pick out all of their deviations from the standard of care. Like the first time they never asked me who my doctor was but insisted on contacting my parents, so my cross examination was. Dr. Y, at no point in our encounter you even bothered to ask who my standing physician was, the most crucial and fundamental primary source of collateral? Are you prepared to answer questions before the board of psychiatry and any other boards or health oversight agencies that your license with?

I keep asking them legal questions that they are fucking clueless on and then I emphasize that the nurses and sitters in the room at the time of the examinations would be testifying against them by deposition or understand as witnesses, corroborating they're deficiencies in standard of practice and egregious deviations should they choose to commit me involuntarily solely based on unfounded statements made by third parties which, if you go as far as filing a temporary civil commitment hold, you would be acting knowingly and with the knowledge that the facts are not reliable at the time which would be a willful disregard and malfeasance.

Then they start asking me what do I know this and I just keep hammering them with more questions until they fall apart and let me go. Better the devil they know than the devil they don't.

After the first time in the psych ward I absorbed everything I could on the legal mechanics of commitments and all of the doctors start falling apart after my grilling and let me go lol

I wonder what it was that you came up with that made them release you that fast! ?

Will that work in the UK?

They forced me to have treatment and then when I was having that done I kept having random doctors and nurses asking me questions about how I was feeling physically and mentally. I was honest with them about the physical side of things until later on Wednesday. When they were asking me about the mental health side of things, I kept to the story of I saw the pills on the side and took them. I told everyone it was a spur of the moment decision and that I really regretted taking them. I kept asking questions about results and acted really worried as to what damage i caused to myself. When they were deciding whether Im being sectioned or discharged, I managed to convince them that I would be fine and that because I still live with my parents then they would keep an eye on me. They didnt talk to my parents about that luckily. When they decided that I could be discharged, it was a nightmare with the last set of obs. before I could leave. I was in quite a bit of pain but I didnt want to give them an excuse to keep me longer so I said I wasnt in pain. It took the nurses 8 attempts using machines to get a good BP which they didnt so they had to do it manually. Luckily I was able to relax a lot and it finally gave a good enough reading for me to go home. Unfortunately, Im dealing with the consequences of not having any access to pain meds now.

 

[DeadManLiving]

Will that work in the UK?

They forced me to have treatment and then when I was having that done I kept having random doctors and nurses asking me questions about how I was feeling physically and mentally. I was honest with them about the physical side of things until later on Wednesday. When they were asking me about the mental health side of things, I kept to the story of I saw the pills on the side and took them. I told everyone it was a spur of the moment decision and that I really regretted taking them. I kept asking questions about results and acted really worried as to what damage i caused to myself. When they were deciding whether Im being sectioned or discharged, I managed to convince them that I would be fine and that because I still live with my parents then they would keep an eye on me. They didnt talk to my parents about that luckily. When they decided that I could be discharged, it was a nightmare with the last set of obs. before I could leave. I was in quite a bit of pain but I didnt want to give them an excuse to keep me longer so I said I wasnt in pain. It took the nurses 8 attempts using machines to get a good BP which they didnt so they had to do it manually. Luckily I was able to relax a lot and it finally gave a good enough reading for me to go home. Unfortunately, Im dealing with the consequences of not having any access to pain meds now.

Not familiar with the laws of the UK, but how did they let you go the first time when you said you talked yourself out? That's why I was like kudos man!

Don't answer any questions. Demand to speak to an attorney. When they ask you if you want to kill yourself? Laugh back and say "But I'm too young for that Dr, I'm only 34!:".

Do you have any thoughts of hurting others? No, but I help others - I volunteer at ____ (veteran's hospital) as a suidicde-prevenion advocate.

Then STOP. Dangerousness has been dispelled. Anything you say after that point will be a fools errand.

Next, ask the doctor a series of questions as an attorney would while cross-examining a witness on the stand.

Dr, have you previously practiced or are you currently licensed to practice medicine in any other state?
Have you ever been sanctioned by any board you were licenced with or by any other health oversight agencies?
Have you ever had you deposition taken, or have you ever testified under oath in a legal proceeding?

Are you familiar with the State of ____ criterion for civil commitments?

If so, then you would know what the standard of evidence is for commitments in this state, is it A. reasonable belief B. probable cause C. substantial likelihood of deterioration or E. clear and convincing?

They'll get it wrong and say C.

Then continue. Dr, it appears you are not aware of the legal mechanics for civil commitments, I asked for the legal standard of evidence necessary to prove one is in need of civil commitment, not an element of a patient's outcome.

When was the last time you reviewd the state's recent guidance on civil commitments published by the Attorney General?

Then how can you practice medicine in conformity with the standards of practice set forth by the AG if you can't remember them?
.... and so on

Until they break down and try to leave, but remind them they cant't! Dr. once the physician-patient relationship has been established and the patient has reasonable and relevant questions about their care you would be commiting patient abandonment and breach of fiduciary duty? Are you confident you'll be able to defend yourself against your termination of this encounter before regulatory agencies granted I file a complaint against you?

If no, then let's continue ......


Then they end up defeated and discharge you. You just have to know your rights and the relevant law, put in the time to study beforehand or now. The knowledge may save you from substantial and significant trauma from being committed one day.

In your case, you've been saying too much. Loose lips sink ships. Turn their questions into counter-questions. Tell them you'll answer all their questions certainly, but that you have some "revalations to make" but would need to ask some questions (interrogatories) beforehand..

Act like a lawyer would; just ask a bunch of leading question like you're building a case. Also, never speak to any provider unless there is a witness in the room. You should only communicate when there are two or more people in the room. That way they can't take back what one or the other said, as one or the other will be a cooperating witness. Three is better.

Go on a food strike if necessary.

 

[deedeme]

Not familiar with the laws of the UK, but how did they let you go the first time when you said you talked yourself out? That's why I was like kudos man!

Don't answer any questions. Demand to speak to an attorney. When they ask you if you want to kill yourself? Laugh back and say "But I'm too young for that Dr, I'm only 34!:".

Do you have any thoughts of hurting others? No, but I help others - I volunteer at ____ (veteran's hospital) as a suidicde-prevenion advocate.

Then STOP. Dangerousness has been dispelled. Anything you say after that point will be a fools errand.

Next, ask the doctor a series of questions as an attorney would while cross-examining a witness on the stand.

Dr, have you previously practiced or are you currently licensed to practice medicine in any other state?
Have you ever been sanctioned by any board you were licenced with or by any other health oversight agencies?
Have you ever had you deposition taken, or have you ever testified under oath in a legal proceeding?

Are you familiar with the State of ____ criterion for civil commitments?

If so, then you would know what the standard of evidence is for commitments in this state, is it A. reasonable belief B. probable cause C. substantial likelihood of deterioration or E. clear and convincing?

They'll get it wrong and say C.

Then continue. Dr, it appears you are not aware of the legal mechanics for civil commitments, I asked for the legal standard of evidence necessary to prove one is in need of civil commitment, not an element of a patient's outcome.

When was the last time you reviewd the state's recent guidance on civil commitments published by the Attorney General?

Then how can you practice medicine in conformity with the standards of practice set forth by the AG if you can't remember them?
.... and so on

Until they break down and try to leave, but remind them they cant't! Dr. once the physician-patient relationship has been established and the patient has reasonable and relevant questions about their care you would be commiting patient abandonment and breach of fiduciary duty? Are you confident you'll be able to defend yourself against your termination of this encounter before regulatory agencies granted I file a complaint against you?

If no, then let's continue ......


Then they end up defeated and discharge you. You just have to know your rights and the relevant law, put in the time to study beforehand or now. The knowledge may save you from substantial and significant trauma from being committed one day.

In your case, you've been saying too much. Loose lips sink ships. Turn their questions into counter-questions. Tell them you'll answer all their questions certainly, but that you have some "revalations to make" but would need to ask some questions (interrogatories) beforehand..

Act like a lawyer would; just ask a bunch of leading question like you're building a case. Also, never speak to any provider unless there is a witness in the room. You should only communicate when there are two or more people in the room. That way they can't take back what one or the other said, as one or the other will be a cooperating witness. Three is better.

Go on a food strike if necessary.

Are you a lawyer or did you study law by any means? That was an interesting read