Discussion Spiritual/afterlife considerations against CTB

[Lauriso]

I know there is a megathread on these topics but I still wanted to create my own.

For most of my life I've wanted to believe in an afterlife, but to this day have remained agnostic. Now that I'm suicidal these questions bear special relevance.

I don't believe suicide is a "sin", as I don't believe my life is a special curriculum set up for me by some incompetent and/or sadistic deity, that I will fail by CTB.

That said, I do see humanity and its consciousness are evolving. Our culture, our values, our knowledge, and our spirituality. But this process is slow and arduous. It seems we're up against what one of my favorite philosophers Tim Freke calls "pastivity" - the patterns ingrained in existence over eons.

If human consciousness can survive bodily death (which I hope), there is the issue of cutting my own troublesome yet meaningful evolution process short. I'll probably get back on track again, but after experiencing a considerable setback.

To those of you who share my tentative faith in the afterlife - does it provide you with any good reasons not to CTB?

 

[Hope:-)]

No, quite the opposite It provides me with reasons to ctb as I believe in the next life we'll know we'll live forever which makes everything just one hell of a ride. I barely fear death at all ...it's the physical pain'I'm worried about.

 

[Kurt]

Hello Lauriso,
Kurt here and brand new to the site. I would think that if your tentative faith in the afterlife provides you with some measure of a plausible reason not too, then you might examine what is more important to you? Not knowing your situation, for me it would be a calculation between the pro's and con's. What are the pro's and con's based on? Fact, Fear? etc...

QUESTION: CBT acronym?
Thanks Kurt.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

QUESTION: CBT acronym?

CTB = catching the bus

 

[Kurt]

CTB = catching the bus

So I have dyslexia tendencies I realize now as well. ~ Thanks for your post!

 

[locked*n*loaded]

So I have dyslexia tendencies I realize now as well. ~ Thanks for your post!

Just so you know, my post wasn't meant as any kind of "dig" at you for whatever reason. I only corrected the "BT' arrangement because you were asking what CBT stood for, and in order to understand the arrangement of letters, so that they corresponded to the phrase I was going to provide, I highlighted the T to show it goes in the middle. My intent was quite innocent, I assure you.

 

[theboy]

I don't share your thoughts but I do share in asking you about life after death. I am guided by what the Bible says because I am a believer. The CTB goes against what God says but. However, for me, if I wake up and see Jesus Christ, as the Bible points out, I would love it. If nothing happens, well fine too since my eternal suffering is over.

 

[eternal_life]

I know there is a megathread on these topics but I still wanted to create my own.

For most of my life I've wanted to believe in an afterlife, but to this day have remained agnostic. Now that I'm suicidal these questions bear special relevance.

I don't believe suicide is a "sin", as I don't believe my life is a special curriculum set up for me by some incompetent and/or sadistic deity, that I will fail by CTB.

That said, I do see humanity and its consciousness are evolving. Our culture, our values, our knowledge, and our spirituality. But this process is slow and arduous. It seems we're up against what one of my favorite philosophers Tim Freke calls "pastivity" - the patterns ingrained in existence over eons.

If human consciousness can survive bodily death (which I hope), there is the issue of cutting my own troublesome yet meaningful evolution process short. I'll probably get back on track again, but after experiencing a considerable setback.

To those of you who share my tentative faith in the afterlife - does it provide you with any good reasons not to CTB?

I commented on it in another thread, I believe in the life of the spirit after physical death, and I think that suicide is not well seen in the afterlife, suicide attempts have ended with near-death experiences that have seen hell or a kind of limbo, or where it has been said that you cannot go to heaven if you kill yourself. It has been commented on by many people who have been close to death, who have seen those places, who have felt a fear and panic that is incomparable to the suffering on Earth (it is even worse), have seen demons skinning people over and over again, etc. It really seems terrible to me and hearing those experiences has scared me. From what I've read, about 15% of near-death experiences are negative experiences, the remaining % positive.

It is a reason to value, we cannot be totally sure of what will happen if we decide to CTB, but the risk of going to a place even worse than our current situation on Earth, or disappointing God, is certainly a reason to consider, at least for those of us who have this spiritual belief. I take it into account, it is not a trivial subject. And I don't know what consequences there may be to decide CTB, in that sense it can be risky.

 

[Kurt]

Just so you know, my post wasn't meant as any kind of "dig" at you for whatever reason. I only corrected the "BT' arrangement because you were asking what CBT stood for, and in order to understand the arrangement of letters, so that they corresponded to the phrase I was going to provide, I highlighted the T to show it goes in the middle. My intent was quite innocent, I assure you.

No worries!
I appreciated both the correction and the answer.
The mystery is solved as to why I was getting "Cognitive Behavior Therapy" as my Google search!

 

[lexiahhs]

i believe in starseeds. it may sound stupid to people, but thats the closest i believe in to afterlife. for a while it kept me away from wanting to ctb due to what i had believed in with starseeds, but now i think ive done my work on earth and am ready to go and shouldnt have to wait.

 

[Maravillosa]

I don't share your thoughts but I do share in asking you about life after death. I am guided by what the Bible says because I am a believer. The CTB goes against what God says but. However, for me, if I wake up and see Jesus Christ, as the Bible points out, I would love it. If nothing happens, well fine too since my eternal suffering is over.

I agree with you. I would love to "wake up and see Jesus Christ" after I die. But what if I end up in Hell because I ctb? I believe believers in Christ who are otherwise devout and conscientious in their faith can lose their salvation if they die with mortal sin on their conscience: salvation is not assured. I want to believe in universalism, but I am apprehensive God may not be a universalist.

 

[theboy]

I agree with you. I would love to "wake up and see Jesus Christ" after I die. But what if I end up in Hell because I ctb? I believe believers in Christ who are otherwise devout and conscientious in their faith can lose their salvation if they die with mortal sin on their conscience: salvation is not assured. I want to believe in universalism, but I am apprehensive God may not be a universalist.

Don't worry. You won't wake up in hell. Hell does not exist now and will not exist later (according to the Bible). Now when you refer to "universalism" what do you mean?

 

[Maravillosa]

Don't worry. You won't wake up in hell. Hell does not exist now and will not exist later (according to the Bible). Now when you refer to "universalism" what do you mean?

Universalism is the belief that all will be saved, that everybody goes to Heaven whether or not they were a Christian. See the following links from Wikipedia:

Christian universalism
History of Christian universalism

 

[Lily (Osako)]

Someone once asked me if I remember what it was like before I was born, to which I said,"no".
They said they believe it's the same after we die.
It could be a place, a type of spiritual life we just don't remember, or it could just be the nothing, the void.
I'd like to think it's the former. Something so beautiful that if we remembered it we would never agree to be born into this life. We'd never want to leave it.

 

[Job Joad]

I still feel like I have a soul and I'm still trying to avoid doing things that will compromise the integrity of my soul, but the God I knew as young man I no longer know. I would like to live a full completed life where he determines when I go, but I'm losing my ability to hold on. We want a reward for our pain and we want justice done to the people that deserve it, but there's such a lack of supernatural magic and specialness in the world that I doubt of anything supernatural or magical will ever come. Death is most likely our body fails and we're out! Pretty depressing!

 

[Lauriso]

No, quite the opposite It provides me with reasons to ctb as I believe in the next life we'll know we'll live forever which makes everything just one hell of a ride. I barely fear death at all ...it's the physical pain'I'm worried about.

Fascinating... so only the fear of pain while CTB stops you?

i believe in starseeds. it may sound stupid to people, but thats the closest i believe in to afterlife. for a while it kept me away from wanting to ctb due to what i had believed in with starseeds, but now i think ive done my work on earth and am ready to go and shouldnt have to wait.

Could you shortly explain what starseeds mean?

I don't share your thoughts but I do share in asking you about life after death. I am guided by what the Bible says because I am a believer. The CTB goes against what God says but. However, for me, if I wake up and see Jesus Christ, as the Bible points out, I would love it. If nothing happens, well fine too since my eternal suffering is over.

Well, if it's over, it was never really eternal, was it? ;)

I agree with you. I would love to "wake up and see Jesus Christ" after I die. But what if I end up in Hell because I ctb? I believe believers in Christ who are otherwise devout and conscientious in their faith can lose their salvation if they die with mortal sin on their conscience: salvation is not assured. I want to believe in universalism, but I am apprehensive God may not be a universalist.

God who allows eternal hell to exist is not a character I want to be friends with anyway. I'd rather be down there comforting the suffering.

 

[Shu]

Fascinating... so only the fear of pain while CTB stops you?

Could you shortly explain what starseeds mean?

Well, if it's over, it was never really eternal, was it? ;)



God who allows eternal hell to exist is not a character I want to be friends with anyway. I'd rather be down there comforting the suffering.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Hmmm, interesting ideas. I've grown up hoping that the soul/consciousness can live outside of the body- because I lost so many close family members in early childhood and was told they were in heaven to comfort me. Especially the idea that I may get to see them again some day. While I don't want to believe suicide is a sin, I have also been raised with that notion too unfortunately- and honestly- yes, it's one of the things that puts me off ctb. I'm really undecided on God to be honest but the stories are still ingrained enough to frighten me.

I actually hate the idea of reincarnation. Honestly, it seems like a form of punishment to get landed with another lifetime to get through. Plus, I'm terribly selfish- my Mum died when I was 3. I don't really like the thought that she could be someone else's Mum now.

I'm curious though- are you worried about cutting your life short because you think you might have a significant experience that will greatly enhance your life force/consciousness/soul if you live out your years? I guess I'm just curious as to what that could be?

I'm so sorry- I guess to a larger extent, I'm probably the opposite to you. While I wanted to believe in the whole heaven fairytale growing up, I'm more sold on the idea now that these were all just stories we told ourselves because we can't stand being that insignificant. I'm actually hoping there's nothing following this now.

Also- and I know this also hinges largely on whether you accept ideas like global warming etc, I don't honestly think the human race has done the world a whole lot of good. Yes, we have come up with some incredible inventions- technology/art but they have all been to enhance our own species (quite often to the detriment of others). If we are to believe that this planet is on a path to disaster, then I would think the greatest achievement would be to figure out a way out of this mess.

Ironically, I would argue the best thing we could do would be to massively reduce the population and stop breeding- so- (while I know this would never happen) voluntary euthanasia (we'd all be first in line) and birth control.

Like I said though- I'm so horribly pessimistic about our species!

 

[Lauriso]

I'm curious though- are you worried about cutting your life short because you think you might have a significant experience that will greatly enhance your life force/consciousness/soul if you live out your years? I guess I'm just curious as to what that could be?

Yes, roughly. Or more precisely, I'm looking for legitimate reasons not to CTB. Because I seem to have lost almost everything that kept me going in the past.
What that could be... Maybe some kind of spiritual enlightenment / maturity that's required to stop reincarnating here (if that's what happens) and move on to a better place.

 

[theboy]

Universalism is the belief that all will be saved, that everybody goes to Heaven whether or not they were a Christian. See the following links from Wikipedia:

Christian universalism
History of Christian universalism

It isn't true. You have to spend some time studying the Bible along with the books that complement the reading

 

[Forever Sleep]

Yes, roughly. Or more precisely, I'm looking for legitimate reasons not to CTB. Because I seem to have lost almost everything that kept me going in the past.
What that could be... Maybe some kind of spiritual enlightenment / maturity that's required to stop reincarnating here (if that's what happens) and move on to a better place.

I think that's similar to what my step Mum believes- that you keep being reincarnated here until you reach a certain level and become an angel.

In some ways, I can see it- it does sort of feel like we are supposed to be learning and improving in our lives. Becoming better I suppose. Still, I think it's a bit mean if that's the case that the majority of us don't remember previous lives- how are we meant to improve if we can't remember what mistakes we made in previous lives?

I don't know. I sort of still feel like we believe in these sorts of things because we can't stand it that maybe there is no meaning. Maybe it was all just an accident that life came about. Still- I don't want to dissuade you from you spiritual quest. I think faith can help people through life as well as harm. It's finding the good, positive aspects I guess. I hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[Lauriso]

how are we meant to improve if we can't remember what mistakes we made in previous lives

Yes, that's a point often brought up among modern Gnostics and "prison planet" theory subscribers. It's an incredibly shit school set up by an idiot schoolmaster.

I don't know. I sort of still feel like we believe in these sorts of things because we can't stand it that maybe there is no meaning. Maybe it was all just an accident that life came about. Still- I don't want to dissuade you from you spiritual quest. I think faith can help people through life as well as harm. It's finding the good, positive aspects I guess. I hope you find what you're looking for.

Yes, that is always a possibility. But that makes me ask - why? If we are accidents whose main drive is to survive until reproduction, and evolutionary psychology can explain all our inner lives - why in the world would we have this thirst, this longing for the transcendent? I understand not everyone has it, but it's fair to say all cultures throughout history have had religions or spiritual systems that saw men as more than meat machines. I feel my inner world is too deep to be explained by neo-Darwinian reductionism.