Something else is whats wrong, some way of thinking....

[dandan]

In my life, I have been through depression, ETC, lots of medicines, drugs, some hard hits in my head, lost all my aquired bitcoin wealth, 37 handsome, very skinny, and single, heterosexual but no girlfriend, im cool but I've got many many issues.... however... it all can boil down to one thing.....

there's something else in life, than money, fame, feeling good, chemistry, habits, lecture, ..... there's something else.....

I mean there's something else, something rationally, something in the mind, some humans, many humans I know, being my brother , father, peers, (most of them)
have this strong acute ability to reply, to verbally respond with smart conversation, and strong points of view...
some people, have the ability to say their own opinion and back it up with arguments, and have certain verbal ability which only reflects their capacity
in their mind, to analyze (very quickly) concepts, grasp ideas, relate them to other ideas, understand things very deeply

I might be good at numbers, I was, havent done that in many years,
but im not good at that... at that verbal ability , which only reflects the great advanced process in the mind of humans I envy so drastically

I can spend 1 hour in a restaurant with co workers or friends, and Im okay
the only damm problem is that I dont have the verbal ability
and reading is not the solution, i've read,
writing either, well it does help
but its more about the way of thinking a ...... combining ideas, relating, asking good questions? I dunno....

 

[not_a_robot]

No, I think everybody imagines some magical social faerie-dust that everybody has except themselves. It's dissociative bullshit when you feel you lack it, and oxytocin when you feel like you have it. A neurochemical delusion.
Drugs, basically. Now marketed, too. The magic social lube in a convenient nasal spray.
I don't want it, I think it's Bullshit Juice. There'll be consequences. Dopamine-disappointment on a more primal level, eventual mass suicides. Just my theory.

 

[alizee]

How often are you talking with people? That's a skill that can be developed. Reading philosophy can definitely help with this skill because many deep views are just rehashed philosophy from hundreds of years ago.

 

[Grey-zone]

You've had a more interesting life than mine, but I share the same problem. My verbal ability is very curtailed. I can't speak openly without halting and trying to avoid stuttering, and my repartee is usually terrible. I can't even do small-talk. Even more than physical appearance verbal ability is what gets you laid, hired, and ultimately enjoying life around other people. It feels like there's a weight in my mouth that I can't lift off. Such is life.

 

[dandan]

How often are you talking with people? That's a skill that can be developed. Reading philosophy can definitely help with this skill because many deep views are just rehashed philosophy from hundreds of years ago.

yup, done all that... then whats the matter? must be something else... I call it the "pre-verbal" stage.... before we speak... in matter of miliseconds, we form ideas in our mind about what we are going to say, and its that small "pre-verbal" stage that we analyze, distort, conceptualize, link ideas, and many more....

You've had a more interesting life than mine, but I share the same problem. My verbal ability is very curtailed. I can't speak openly without halting and trying to avoid stuttering, and my repartee is usually terrible. I can't even do small-talk. Even more than physical appearance verbal ability is what gets you laid, hired, and ultimately enjoying life around other people. It feels like there's a weight in my mouth that I can't lift off. Such is life.

I do continue to make attemps and dont quit, im searching to become good with words, but its more like a mental concept, pre-verbal, before we talk, we form ideas on our mind which we later speak out, or write... so its in that "pre-verbal" phase im dwelling, its not about reading philosophy or spending time with people , which also helps, but I didnt grew the ability when I spent all day with people... so its also no that... thats like the advice found on the internet, something to blog about... but im not here because of a normal concept... this is really "something else".....

It's dissociative bullshit when you feel you lack it, and oxytocin when you feel like you have it.

This has nothing to do with what I "feel", its verbal, its linguistics, words, and like our member above said, its what gets you laid, hired, and ultimately enjoying life around other people... I do agree with that

 

[Thorn]

It's one of the worst feelings, when you have a thousand thoughts at any given time, but you can't express them no way, no how.
You don't have any difficulties getting your points across, and you are the one who bothers writing more than one line at a time.
When it comes to talking people, how good are you at reading them? Their personality and intellectual capacity. Connecting to different people is like adapting to new environment. I used to be good at that, now it's all just one surreal mess. Well, I'm happy when I can stick a spoon in my face at the correct spot. Already lost an eye, I need the other one.

 

[alizee]

yup, done all that... then whats the matter? must be something else... I call it the "pre-verbal" stage.... before we speak... in matter of miliseconds, we form ideas in our mind about what we are going to say, and its that small "pre-verbal" stage that we analyze, distort, conceptualize, link ideas, and many more....

Hmm, are you fit and do some type of active activity? I'm just curious because I think being active in general and while young helped me develop pre-verbal skills. Also how often are you chatting with people per week?

 

[262653]

I don't understand what is going on in this thread, or any else. Probably thanks to lack of sleep. But I can't get rid of the feeling that I know exactly what you're talking about. To what extent it's a skill and to what it's a natural affinity? I want too, but don't want to put any effort :( Some YT guy compared intelligence to a programming skill and programs are like mental concepts you mentioned. I guess we can learn some schematics from other people... Better skill -- better, more efficient programs, easier time navigating through mind content and even better software. It grows expotentionally... I don't have words to express to which extent I'm envious of bright-minded people. Very discerning. It becomes strikingly apparent when you meet such person... I can't get rid of the feeling that it's a natural born talent... Or maybe I'm rationalizing my reluctance to try and improve.

 

[sólstafir]

I relate, because it's one of the states i've been often myself these last years. I've even been pretending I'm sleeping at a party to avoid that embarrassment of not being able to talk a single word. But it only happened after having a psychosis. Before illness I was confident. I had a lot to say all the time, everywhere, I was also confident in being silent. And it's not the feeling of wanting to even to be liked, although that matters too I guess on some level, it's the feeling of wanting to have a personality for myself, like is it much to ask for to just feel relaxed in my own skin with or without people. My mind just freezes in social situations. It's blank while I'm alone too or just filled with some mental noise that doesn't benefit me. You expressed it really well though. I wish though, I wish I was sharp like Oscar Wilde for example. But I think that self-awareness is good, that perhaps leaves us room for improvement :)

 

[dandan]

yup, that party animal image seem a lot like me , although I can fake it, or flee,
but that image expresses the point I wanted to convey or share in this thread, actually it expresses it very well

Hmm, are you fit and do some type of active activity? I'm just curious because I think being active in general and while young helped me develop pre-verbal skills. Also how often are you chatting with people per week?

I do go to the office for 10 hours per day, try to relate a little,
I read,
I plan and work on my little money making future business
I think a lot
and theres almost not time for anything else,
I will start gym, I started working out and exercise, because I will try the Dbol (Dianabol) steroid thing which supposedly stimulates
I need that for work and for my own project
plus im very skinny a few pounds are welcome, of course, being careful!!

I chat with women, on Tinder, not so good,, i am not an expert chatter, my new roomie has few days living with me, he's very talkative, but also little negative... haha

I relate, because it's one of the states i've been often myself these last years. I've even been pretending I'm sleeping at a party to avoid that embarrassment of not being able to talk a single word. But it only happened after having a psychosis. Before illness I was confident. I had a lot to say all the time, everywhere, I was also confident in being silent. And it's not the feeling of wanting to even to be liked, although that matters too I guess on some level, it's the feeling of wanting to have a personality for myself, like is it much to ask for to just feel relaxed in my own skin with or without people. My mind just freezes in social situations. It's blank while I'm alone too or just filled with some mental noise that doesn't benefit me. You expressed it really well though. I wish though, I wish I was sharp like Oscar Wilde for example. But I think that self-awareness is good, that perhaps leaves us room for improvement :)

View attachment 13235

I vaguely rember reading oscar wilde (bad memory), about having apersonality... .I know what you mean.... picture says it all....

even better software. It grows expotentionally... I don't have words to express...... it's a natural born talent... Or maybe I'm rationalizing

I work with software
natural born talent almost for sure, but was I born with the natural born talent to envy that? LOL how shitty, there has to be a mental exercise we can do for this type of thing.... there has to be something!

 

[not_a_robot]

yup, done all that... then whats the matter? must be something else... I call it the "pre-verbal" stage.... before we speak... in matter of miliseconds, we form ideas in our mind about what we are going to say, and its that small "pre-verbal" stage that we analyze, distort, conceptualize, link ideas, and many more....



I do continue to make attemps and dont quit, im searching to become good with words, but its more like a mental concept, pre-verbal, before we talk, we form ideas on our mind which we later speak out, or write... so its in that "pre-verbal" phase im dwelling, its not about reading philosophy or spending time with people , which also helps, but I didnt grew the ability when I spent all day with people... so its also no that... thats like the advice found on the internet, something to blog about... but im not here because of a normal concept... this is really "something else".....




This has nothing to do with what I "feel", its verbal, its linguistics, words, and like our member above said, its what gets you laid, hired, and ultimately enjoying life around other people... I do agree with that

Oxytocin is the pre-verbal state that makes people decide if they think they want to hire you, fuck you, understand you, love you. If people don't get a gush of it on first sight, you can never make any connection to them. You can talk and talk but it's like you're both made of cardboard.
Even if it's there, it eventually fades and people still end up feeling like cardboard. "Human connection" is just an illusion. It's a drug-induced hallucination, the most realistic one there is, but still fake, even at it's best.
Not arguing with you, just saying.
Good luck.

 

[Faraway1990]

Oxytocin is the pre-verbal state that makes people decide if they think they want to hire you, fuck you, understand you, love you. If people don't get a gush of it on first sight, you can never make any connection to them. You can talk and talk but it's like you're both made of cardboard.
Even if it's there, it eventually fades and people still end up feeling like cardboard. "Human connection" is just an illusion. It's a drug-induced hallucination, the most realistic one there is, but still fake, even at it's best.
Not arguing with you, just saying.
Good luck.

I don't agree at all but I can still value your perspective.

 

[not_a_robot]

I don't agree at all but I can still value your perspective. ❤

You just don't care what I think because you don't get an oxytocin-boner for me.

 

[Faraway1990]

You just don't care what I think because you don't get an oxytocin-boner for me.

Lol I've just had different life experiences but I value your perspective makes me think about things in a way I haven't etc.... like I'm a very spiritual soul not fluffy everything is perfect kind of way but I do feel very strongly that the connections we have with others are no accident of course our body chemicals play a part but there's so much more to it than that.


But at the end of the day I respect your opinion because that's what you're life has shown you just as me with mine and in the end if my reality is wrong or yours what is the meaning of arguing since neither of us are hurting anyone and honestly at the end of the day we are both here because life in this reality showed us the unnaturally negative sides and made us yearn for an exit. I like how you always speak honestly I value that..

 

[Temporarilyabsurd]

You know when I feel the realest ?

When I'm pretending to be a rock star singing !

Yeah !

Fuckin' nuts , but I get off on that .

The point is ; paradoxically , with human 'cultural' affairs , on our own or with others
the cultural mechanics of art ( ARTIFICE ) are actually the realest things .

I was a cleaner in a high school a few years ago and connected with the idea of drama teachers,
It took me a while to realize they were teaching kids how to interact , not be actors , but how
to act in real life ... ?

I have always had difficult behaving with integrity in society , when so much of it is all an act ...

Sorry if this is all off beam and doesn't resonate , but I wanted to chip in !

( I particularly like your referral to 'pre verbal' states ... it's a concept that is much
under utilized ... it's a phrase I have used myself to describe that gut reaction state of being
preceding interpretation / expression by words )

 

[Faraway1990]

You know when I feel the realest ?

When I'm pretending to be a rock star singing !

Yeah !

Fuckin' nuts , but I get off on that .

The point is ; paradoxically , with human 'cultural' affairs , on our own or with others
the cultural mechanics of art ( ARTIFICE ) are actually the realest things .

I was a cleaner in a high school a few years ago and connected with the idea of drama teachers,
It took me a while to realize they were teaching kids how to interact , not be actors , but how
to act in real life ... ?

I have always had difficult behaving with integrity in society , when so much of it is all an act ...

Sorry if this is all off beam and doesn't resonate , but I wanted to chip in !

( I particularly like your referral to 'pre verbal' states ... it's a concept that is much
under utilized ... it's a phrase I have used myself to describe that gut reaction state of being
preceding interpretation / expression by words )

This is a big one for me to CTB sooner or later I'm a very honest and value things such things highly this world Man.....it's not meant for us it's built for robotic sociopaths all about that money honey, I'm currently experiencing something that makes holding off on my exit a little bit but eventually I'm exiting I wanna go out with my honour and integrity intact that might sound silly to some but it's how I honestly feel deeply.

 

[dandan]

, I'm currently experiencing something that makes holding off on my exit a little bit but eventually I'm exiting I

I'm experiencing something, I resonate with you because I've always experienced before intense setbacks/depression after being in a good mood and conscious.
And it's in those episodes which might last week's which I just know I'll never make it beyond survival....

At the moment I have hopes ...

I particularly like your referral to 'pre verbal' states ... it's a concept that is much
under utilized ...

I remember having to come up with that word so that my therapist could understand what I was experiencing, tried looking for a psychology concept or similar which addresses that stage / mind / , but never found something related to it.....

I think it's in that 'part' of the mind where 'something else' , is going on....i ish I could understand it better

 

[Faraway1990]

I'm experiencing something, I resonate with you because I've always experienced before intense setbacks/depression after being in a good mood and conscious.
And it's in those episodes which might last week's which I just know I'll never make it beyond survival....

At the moment I have hopes ..

I completely relate for years I'm either doing well and have hope or borderline homeless, homeless at one point I have found a new place to stay enough money for rent for a couple months cautiously hopeful about work have a beautiful and brilliant SO(things switched pretty quick compared to even just 3 weeks ago.) So I'm trying one more time but if my efforts are for nothing and it looks like I'm facing survival on the edge again I'm not having it I will CTB.

 

[Soul]

You just don't care what I think because you don't get an oxytocin-boner for me.

That is not possible. We all get oxytocin-giddy over you.

 

[dandan]

I completely relate for years I'm either doing well and have hope or borderline homeless, homeless at one point I have found a new place to stay enough money for rent for a couple months cautiously hopeful about work have a beautiful and brilliant SO(things switched pretty quick compared to even just 3 weeks ago.) So I'm trying one more time but if my efforts are for nothing and it looks like I'm facing survival on the edge again I'm not having it I will CTB.

Totally get you, I was so bad at my work I thought they would fire me and I just couldn't take it ..... Even when loosing my job wouldn't kill me by itself it was amazing the effect it caused on me...
I was so lost and felt so so impotent and bad ...

I became somewhat good this couple of last week's, plus I have an idea am working on.... Gave me the spirit to continue

 

[Faraway1990]

Totally get you, I was so bad at my work I thought they would fire me and I just couldn't take it ..... Even when loosing my job wouldn't kill me by itself it was amazing the effect it caused on me...
I was so lost and felt so so impotent and bad ...

I became somewhat good this couple of last week's, plus I have an idea am working on.... Gave me the spirit to continue

I could have wrote this myself! When I lost my last job after these last few years +the rockiness of the past couple months I saw were it was going and came very very close to CTB now I see some hope enough to go on for a few more months at least

 

[Temporarilyabsurd]

I think it's in that 'part' of the mind where 'something else' , is going on....i ish I could understand it better

I guess it's the unconscious / subconscious , or whatever ...

The last time I saw my therapist walking down the street I said I was working on building my own model of reality / consciousness ... etc

They agreed and said they were doing the same .

We are all genetically individuals , sure , statistically we might be similar but I think building our
own reality is as valid ( if not more so ) than integrating into the reality provided for us by our
culture .

I guess it's that bloody 'adjustment' , to be able to balance our own world view with the
cultural one , I don't do well at that .

Is it possible these 'other' things are aging / growing pains that continue through life as our roles
change in society ?
How we relate to ourselves and others is constantly changing ... and sometimes ( or a lot ! ) we
can slide out of time with 'the world' .

The always expanding frontier of awareness that is growing as we age ...
Always a bit daunting but also exciting , and sometimes intolerably terrifying .

Who knows .



Faraway1990 said : This is a big one for me to CTB sooner or later I'm a very honest and value things such things highly this world Man.....it's not meant for us it's built for robotic sociopaths all about that money honey, I'm currently experiencing something that makes holding off on my exit a little bit but eventually I'm exiting I wanna go out with my honour and integrity intact that might sound silly to some but it's how I honestly feel deeply.

@Faraway1990 ... I really do believe I'm a rock star ... Bono etc are average wannabes ...(ha ha )
This is in my head and heart , from the perspective of my truth when I sing a version of a song or improvise ( my version of poetry /expression )... It is a dillusion ofcourse ... but it is also my response to life ... my cultural truth .
It is a paradoxical in that is immitating a cultural format that without an audience is a fantasy ..
Authenticity and originality and Integrity are difficult concepts ...
The whole 'industrialization' of the expressive arts has kind of polluted them ...
I remember listening to American Pie under the pillow in the early seventies as an eight year old
so there is cultural conditioning right there .
21st Century life ... pffffffffffft !
Art has been my salvation and my cross to bare all my life .
It saves and condemns .
Glib one liners ugh .
( Everyone is their own rock star ? In there own life / concert ? it's just finding that gritty real thing that
is REAL ... if possible )

 

[262653]

I work with software
natural born talent almost for sure, but was I born with the natural born talent to envy that? LOL how shitty, there has to be a mental exercise we can do for this type of thing.... there has to be something!

Predisposition, maybe? You could imagine envy as green-eyed greedy dragon who's drawned to great treasures. Envy knows what you value and can serve you well as a treasure detector. I guess that's the emotions do -- set us in motion.

I often fail to distinguish between conditional behaviour (learned habits which incorporate skills) and natural aptitude. Or am I suck at X because of some inherent trait, or because I haven't put any effort improving at X? It is difficult to answer that because learned habits are executed unconsciously. Just like you don't think about letter arrangements on keyboard when you type a text. Well, I don't. It comes natural, right? In a sense, without giving it much of a thought.

When it comes to software, I found her videos to be of some use

 

[dandan]

Hmm, are you fit and do some type of active activity? I'm just curious because I think being active in general and while young helped me develop pre-verbal skills. Also how often are you chatting with people per week?

I'm very active now, the doctor says I need to work out, because of the steroids I'm taking, Testosterone and Dianabol(not as often now, because I've grown quit strong and big I don't want to be so artificial but I try to keep taking it)
Anyways,
I'm chatting at work, but very little , I need to have more practice but I don't know what to say or how to improve in that department, and now that I've met a pretty girl is caughting up with me :)
But I'm no longer depressed , so that's ok

 

[woxihuanni]

I'd say immerse yourself in high quality comedy and fiction, especially fantasy/sci fi. Because most of the important stuff that pertains to humans is difficult to see if you stare at it directly in the face, as in a didactic text. That sort of reading will only make you more disconnected. We learn by processing giant amounts of data and distilling patterns, there is no step by step guide to humour or easy communication. All the 'fluff' that goes on between people, some of it is indeed empty, boring and useless, but some of it is deeper than anything 'serious'.

Being selfish also helps a lot. Selfish is never oppressive, it is guilt and cowardice and self-hatred that has oppressive effects on people, not genuine animal selfishness. Nodding through a conversation you hate won't help nobody, you can only give what you truly have.