Some Thoughts on Suicide

[Zaphkiel]

Thank you for posting that

 

[Body bobi]

Nah fuck that...my closest friend actually said that I fake everything that happens to me... HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING IN MY HOUSE... THIS DRUNK IDIOT IS AWAYS FIGHTING WHIT MY MOM AND IS HITTING ME Almost EVERY DAY... IM SO FUCKING LONELY THAT I WANNA KILL MYSELF SO MUCH AND NOW IM GHOSTING FOR 3 WEEKS AND THEN IM GONNA END IT I LIVE AT THE EIGHT FLOOR SO IT MUST BE EASY RIGHT?

 

[surewhynot]

I've returned to this post several times over the years. Thank you for writing it -- a succinct summation of why we're here.

 

[rando8427]

I've come to think of suicide as meaning none of us are stuck here. So even on our darkest days, we are choosing to be here for it. Brave, in a strange way.

 

[Braindead Atheist]

Oh please...life has no value. Its all just one big pleasurless scam. Everywhere I look I see what I've been cheated out of. I don't like anything anymore. I'm so sick of this dull and dreadful existence. I don't even want to try anymore because I know its just another scam. Someone else will just get results and not me. I don't care what others say, practice DOESN'T make perfect. Practice is just a waste of time and energy.

I despise everyone in existence. They all suck and I just want to shut down and ignore life. I'm so tired of being forced to live. Theres nothing here for me but boredom, disappointment, and other people's crap. I wish I could just lay down and die quickly and painlessly. I gave life a try and there's just nothing here for me. I don't understand why other people can't see that.

 

[Ogeid02]

thank you for the text

 

[seaspray]

Beautifully written.Much food for thought and opening up of illuminating pathways.Thanyou

 

[BruceWayne]

suicide doesn't remove the pain...just passes it on to someone else i believe

 

[Sichi]

This is really well-written and I am inclined to agree to this mindset. After reading "No Longer Human" by Osamu Dazai, my outlook in life, particularly in suicide, drastically changed. We are accountable to our lives and others to theirs and I think, we can do whatever we want with our own life. At the end of the day, we're all gonna die anyway.

Suicide used to be thought of as a criminal action, but in modern society, the view has softened into seeing suicide as a result of mental illness. On SS, we often affirm that committing suicide is a decision we have the right to make because we have dominion over our bodies and lives. However, those who oppose pro-choice ideas often believe that people own their lives and bodies yet come to very different conclusions about suicide. This is due to operating under a different value system.

In this post, I will go over two related suicide topics. The first part of my post will address the value of life, suicide from the perspective of autonomy, and the rationality (or irrationality) of ending one's life. The second part will address the harms of standard suicide prevention tactics.

The Value of Life​

Sheldon Solomon defined the cultural scheme of things to be "a shared lens for viewing life and reality that (a) gives life meaning and significance (b) is perceived as permanent and enduring over time (c) establishes the standards of values for individuals with the culture to live up to" (3). The cultural scheme of things can be thought of as the "symbolic world" that exists in each person's mind that not only gives people a means to integrate and process their experiences but also posits the nature of reality and lays down a framework of values and standards.

One value that is near-universal, so much so that it is thought to be self-evident, is life. To most, life is thought to be inherently valuable, an end rather than a means to an end, and requires no justification or explanation. There is often little philosophical reasoning provided for this idea that life is inherently worthwhile and valuable; for most, it is merely a feeling. This belief is, in essence, part of one's cultural scheme of things masquerading as objective reality. Anyone who disagrees with this idea is not only seen as wrong but as being pathologically out of touch with reality. There are, however, a few asymmetries in life that those arguing for its inherent good should answer for.

While some may regard life as a gift, it is undeniable that life comes with striving, and in many ways, this striving is asymmetrically tilted towards suffering. Negative states such as thirst, hunger, and old age (with all of its accompanying pains) come naturally, while one must strive not only to stave off or remove negative states but to reach positive states. In addition to this, one often spends far more time striving for positive states in relation to how long the positive state lasts. One pertinent example is the amount of energy, time, and oftentimes animal suffering it takes to make a meal yet how ephemeral the ensuing gustatory pleasure is. It is rarely denied that life is inculcated with striving, yet this view is often mitigated by arguing that one misses out on the pleasures that life brings when they die. But just as the time before one was born was not a deprivation, the time after one dies will not be either. In the words of Nabakov, who put it far better than I ever can, "The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness. Although the two are identical twins, man, as a rule, views the prenatal abyss with more calm than the one he is heading for" (1).


Not only must we strive, we strive alone. A fundamental part of our inner selves is separated from others and while this gap can be indirectly bridged through the use of language, touch and other symbolic means such as art and music, every individual is ultimately alone in their own head. There is no one but them alone who experiences the suffering (or pleasure) that they are experiencing. We may share moments with someone else, yet they are never in that moment with us, ie, the qualia of those moments is something felt by us and us alone. Ernest Becker touched on this when he wrote, "We touch people on the outsides of their bodies, and they us, but we cannot get at their insides and cannot reveal our insides to them. This is one of the great tragedies of our interiority—it is utterly personal and unrevealable. Often we want to say something unusually intimate to a spouse, a parent, a friend, communicate something of how we are really feeling about a sunset, who we really feel we are—only to fall strangely and miserably flat" (207). It is therefore fitting that each individual should be able to ascertain whether the current costs of existence are worth it and how valuable the potential for future pleasure is relative to current suffering.

Mainstream suicide prevention ​

Suicide preventionists like to hide their paternalism under the guise of protecting a suicidal person's (or, in many cases, a suspected suicidal person's) "real, future self" from their "mentally ill and pathologically out of touch with reality current self." As I addressed in the previous part of my post, the view that suicidal people are pathologically out of touch with reality is unsubstantiated.

Perhaps the most vile method of suicide prevention is forcible psychiatric detention. In essence, this involves subjecting a suicidal person to what would otherwise be considered abuse, violence, and kidnapping if not committed against a suicidal person by medical authorities. Despite the good intentions of medical authorities, the phenomenological experience of the detained person is that of kidnapping and bodily violation. The voice of the suicidal person does not matter. If they try to resist, they will be violently forced into submission through either brute physical force, being tied down, or being drugged. Any other values that a suicidal person may hold, such as bodily inviolability or autonomy, are rendered null. The indignity of being forcibly detained is considered worth it by others if it saves a life, regardless of whether the person who is being subjected to forcible detention values their life more than dignity, autonomy, and bodily inviolability. This line of thought insinuates a deep lack of respect as respect entails allowing someone to act in their own best interests in accordance with their own values and not forcing them into following their "best interests" as defined by others. This also applies to many people who are mentally ill, as mental illness does not necessarily render someone globally irrational and all of their values (besides life) null.

As much as the mental health movement likes to talk about destigmatizing suicide, there is very little that is more stigmatizing than taking away someone's voice and violently forcing them into submission. Medical authorities have their hearts in the right place, yet they are subjecting another human being to cruel treatment on the chance that they will be grateful for it some day. Without a doubt some people are grateful, but it comes at the cost of making the dignity, autonomy, and peace of mind of a suicidal person disposable.

This is less of a suicide prevention tactic and more of an attitude. We all know this attitude well; it is the idea that suicidal people ought to keep living, and anything that is not prolife content is encouraging suicide. While suicidal people are often implored to choose life, there is no true choice unless one is allowed to do the opposite. By not allowing one to opt-out of life, pro-lifers see life not as a choice but as an obligation. If an adult cannot make an autonomous decision about what to do with their own body and life, then they do not own their body or life. This is an odious conclusion. I have had friends on this site who I deeply wish were still here, yet it was their life to take and do with it what they please, not mine to keep.

The zeal in which society wants to prevent suicide is fascinating because one is allowed to do many things that are analogous to suicide, such as cutting off all contact with loved ones or making life-altering irreversible decisions. This incongruence is once again caused by seeing life as inherently valuable and worthwhile.

I have written this post hoping that it will explain the "why" behind many of the ideas often expressed on SS. For anyone who has gotten this far, thank you for reading.

Postscript

It should be noted that I am not against suicide prevention - only the coercive means of doing so, such as throttling information and denying access to peaceful methods of suicide and locking someone up on the chance that they will end their life. These tactics cause someone to stay alive not because they voluntarily choose to live but because they have to. I am not pro suicide, I am pro voluntary life.

References
​

Nabokov, V. V., & Boyd, B. (1999). Speak, memory: An autobiography revisited. New York: Alfred A. Knopf.

Solomon, Sheldon. Denying Death.

Solomon, S., Greenberg, J., & Pyszczynski, T. A. (2015). The worm at the core: On the role of death in life. Penguin Random House.

 

[jeffisawesome]

Suicide used to be thought of as a criminal action, but in modern society, the view has softened into seeing suicide as a result of mental illness. On SS, we often affirm that committing suicide is a decision we have the right to make because we have dominion over our bodies and lives. However, those who oppose pro-choice ideas often believe that people own their lives and bodies yet come to very different conclusions about suicide. This is due to operating under a different value system.

In this post, I will go over two related suicide topics. The first part of my post will address the value of life, suicide from the perspective of autonomy, and the rationality (or irrationality) of ending one's life. The second part will address the harms of standard suicide prevention tactics.

The Value of Life​

Sheldon Solomon defined the cultural scheme of things to be "a shared lens for viewing life and reality that (a) gives life meaning and significance (b) is perceived as permanent and enduring over time (c) establishes the standards of values for individuals with the culture to live up to" (3). The cultural scheme of things can be thought of as the "symbolic world" that exists in each person's mind that not only gives people a means to integrate and process their experiences but also posits the nature of reality and lays down a framework of values and standards.

One value that is near-universal, so much so that it is thought to be self-evident, is life. To most, life is thought to be inherently valuable, an end rather than a means to an end, and requires no justification or explanation. There is often little philosophical reasoning provided for this idea that life is inherently worthwhile and valuable; for most, it is merely a feeling. This belief is, in essence, part of one's cultural scheme of things masquerading as objective reality. Anyone who disagrees with this idea is not only seen as wrong but as being pathologically out of touch with reality. There are, however, a few asymmetries in life that those arguing for its inherent good should answer for.

While some may regard life as a gift, it is undeniable that life comes with striving, and in many ways, this striving is asymmetrically tilted towards suffering. Negative states such as thirst, hunger, and old age (with all of its accompanying pains) come naturally, while one must strive not only to stave off or remove negative states but to reach positive states. In addition to this, one often spends far more time striving for positive states in relation to how long the positive state lasts. One pertinent example is the amount of energy, time, and oftentimes animal suffering it takes to make a meal yet how ephemeral the ensuing gustatory pleasure is. It is rarely denied that life is inculcated with striving, yet this view is often mitigated by arguing that one misses out on the pleasures that life brings when they die. But just as the time before one was born was not a deprivation, the time after one dies will not be either. In the words of Nabakov, who put it far better than I ever can, "The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness. Although the two are identical twins, man, as a rule, views the prenatal abyss with more calm than the one he is heading for" (1).


Not only must we strive, we strive alone. A fundamental part of our inner selves is separated from others and while this gap can be indirectly bridged through the use of language, touch and other symbolic means such as art and music, every individual is ultimately alone in their own head. There is no one but them alone who experiences the suffering (or pleasure) that they are experiencing. We may share moments with someone else, yet they are never in that moment with us, ie, the qualia of those moments is something felt by us and us alone. Ernest Becker touched on this when he wrote, "We touch people on the outsides of their bodies, and they us, but we cannot get at their insides and cannot reveal our insides to them. This is one of the great tragedies of our interiority—it is utterly personal and unrevealable. Often we want to say something unusually intimate to a spouse, a parent, a friend, communicate something of how we are really feeling about a sunset, who we really feel we are—only to fall strangely and miserably flat" (207). It is therefore fitting that each individual should be able to ascertain whether the current costs of existence are worth it and how valuable the potential for future pleasure is relative to current suffering.

Mainstream suicide prevention ​

Suicide preventionists like to hide their paternalism under the guise of protecting a suicidal person's (or, in many cases, a suspected suicidal person's) "real, future self" from their "mentally ill and pathologically out of touch with reality current self." As I addressed in the previous part of my post, the view that suicidal people are pathologically out of touch with reality is unsubstantiated.

Perhaps the most vile method of suicide prevention is forcible psychiatric detention. In essence, this involves subjecting a suicidal person to what would otherwise be considered abuse, violence, and kidnapping if not committed against a suicidal person by medical authorities. Despite the good intentions of medical authorities, the phenomenological experience of the detained person is that of kidnapping and bodily violation. The voice of the suicidal person does not matter. If they try to resist, they will be violently forced into submission through either brute physical force, being tied down, or being drugged. Any other values that a suicidal person may hold, such as bodily inviolability or autonomy, are rendered null. The indignity of being forcibly detained is considered worth it by others if it saves a life, regardless of whether the person who is being subjected to forcible detention values their life more than dignity, autonomy, and bodily inviolability. This line of thought insinuates a deep lack of respect as respect entails allowing someone to act in their own best interests in accordance with their own values and not forcing them into following their "best interests" as defined by others. This also applies to many people who are mentally ill, as mental illness does not necessarily render someone globally irrational and all of their values (besides life) null.

As much as the mental health movement likes to talk about destigmatizing suicide, there is very little that is more stigmatizing than taking away someone's voice and violently forcing them into submission. Medical authorities have their hearts in the right place, yet they are subjecting another human being to cruel treatment on the chance that they will be grateful for it some day. Without a doubt some people are grateful, but it comes at the cost of making the dignity, autonomy, and peace of mind of a suicidal person disposable.

This is less of a suicide prevention tactic and more of an attitude. We all know this attitude well; it is the idea that suicidal people ought to keep living, and anything that is not prolife content is encouraging suicide. While suicidal people are often implored to choose life, there is no true choice unless one is allowed to do the opposite. By not allowing one to opt-out of life, pro-lifers see life not as a choice but as an obligation. If an adult cannot make an autonomous decision about what to do with their own body and life, then they do not own their body or life. This is an odious conclusion. I have had friends on this site who I deeply wish were still here, yet it was their life to take and do with it what they please, not mine to keep.

The zeal in which society wants to prevent suicide is fascinating because one is allowed to do many things that are analogous to suicide, such as cutting off all contact with loved ones or making life-altering irreversible decisions. This incongruence is once again caused by seeing life as inherently valuable and worthwhile.

I have written this post hoping that it will explain the "why" behind many of the ideas often expressed on SS. For anyone who has gotten this far, thank you for reading.

Postscript

It should be noted that I am not against suicide prevention - only the coercive means of doing so, such as throttling information and denying access to peaceful methods of suicide and locking someone up on the chance that they will end their life. These tactics cause someone to stay alive not because they voluntarily choose to live but because they have to. I am not pro suicide, I am pro voluntary life.

References
​

Nabokov, V. V., & Boyd, B. (1999). Speak, memory: An autobiography revisited. New York: Alfred A. Knopf.

Solomon, Sheldon. Denying Death.

Solomon, S., Greenberg, J., & Pyszczynski, T. A. (2015). The worm at the core: On the role of death in life. Penguin Random House.

I ain't readin allat

 

[PorcelainDollEyebag]

This was an incredibly beautifully written post. That Nabakov quote is truly a masterpiece. I think it's fascinating how there are people who can't wrap their heads around why somebody would kill themselves. There is beauty in both life and death and this addresses so many important parts of why many people who engage in suicide prevention fall into a rather "unjust" category when not considering how the suicidal individual has come to such a choice. Thank you!

 

[synthcadia]

this was an interesting take and the use of citations really bolsters your claims. it was well-written.

from my family, to people in my community, suicide has been viewed as selfish, even due to mental illness. it greatly feels like the complete scope of suicide is not accounted for, as we have autonomy over our lives.

to be honest, i don't know if we are real. all feels like a bad dream.

 

[Arihman]

Well written. To my mind, coercive suicide prevention advocates are nothing but pieces of flaming, radioactive turds I would see well in a serial killer torture cellar. If they advocate for torturing people until they like it (because that's what suicide prevention without the guarantee of life being made good according to the suicidal person's standards, is), then they should get the same treatment. Fucking jackasses.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

Oh please...life has no value. Its all just one big pleasurless scam. Everywhere I look I see what I've been cheated out of. I don't like anything anymore. I'm so sick of this dull and dreadful existence. I don't even want to try anymore because I know its just another scam. Someone else will just get results and not me. I don't care what others say, practice DOESN'T make perfect. Practice is just a waste of time and energy.

I despise everyone in existence. They all suck and I just want to shut down and ignore life. I'm so tired of being forced to live. Theres nothing here for me but boredom, disappointment, and other people's crap. I wish I could just lay down and die quickly and painlessly. I gave life a try and there's just nothing here for me. I don't understand why other people can't see that.

a misanthropist I see, I have to agree as well.

 

[Morgan Lace]

I have a degenerative incurable dissease, what about My rights to have Quality of Life, what about having some dignity, and not go Life as a pitiful parasite?

 

[J&L383]

Good post.

My belief is that to force someone to remain alive against their will, is akin to torture. Everyone should have the right to say "enough" and to be able to relieve themselves of the burden of being alive.

"Torture" is strong word, filled with a lot of history, and maybe doesn't precisely fit the classic definition, but it feels appropriate.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Well written!

I think another reason is that humans are afraid to lose someone. Coping with it is difficult so they will do everything to prevent it. So they also vote for political parties which are anti suicide.

 

[glendaaa]

Wow! Great post, I agree with everything you've written

 

[EndOfTheLine84]

Unfortunately this statement is not quite correct. While I am a bit uncertain what is meant by "pathologically out of touch with reality," enough suicide attempts, and one assumes successful suicides, are in fact done in a spur of the moment way, in a state of high emotion, under mood or even mind altering substances and so on that it becomes difficult to defend these instances as being remotely close to a rational act. I think the error you've fallen into is the same one your "suicide preventionists" fall into: an "all or nothing" or perhaps even a "one size fits all" assumption that all suicides are somehow qualitatively the same, the only difference being you're defending -- or seem to be defending -- what these sorts seek to stop. And we do know that while a previous suicide attempt is a leading, maybe THE leading, indicator for an ultimately successful suicide, only a small percentage of suicide attempters ever go on to end their lives. I don't have citations at hand for any of this, but I think I could dig them up with an hour or two of googling.

To stick on my advocatus diaboli devil's horn's, and argue a position I don't hold, I think a pro-lifer could even argue you've created a straw-man here, in the sense that they could reasonably argue what they're doing is preventing somebody temporarily out of touch with reality from harming themselves. In some instances, they might even be right.

I do agree with the whole "future self" business. It is unverified and unverifiable, a sort of secular religion dogmatically asserted and nowhere even coherently defined. Jennifer Michael Hecht certainly abused the hell out of the term in her execrable Stay: A History of Suicide and the Philosophies Against It

I'll meditate on the rest of the essay -- most of which I do in fact agree with -- and if I have anything else worthwhile to say I'll come back and add a few more thoughts. But I did want to note my biggest area of disagreement with the OP. I realize there's a great deal I didn't define to a reader's satisfaction here, in the sense I'm arguing for a kind of "good" vs. "bad" or "rational" vs. "irrational" suicide, but that would be an essay on its own. One I'm not currently prepared to write, and I doubt anyone would read even if I wrote it.

I think I can offer some insight here, as a man nearing age 40 now, who never understood some people's spur of the moment or regretting suicide stories that I have seen on YouTube, and then recently discovered I have had Narcissistic Personality Disorder all my life, then reading on suicide and NPD when the defenses come down and denial is all gone from the past and the present, and reading that those with NPD attmeopt suicide less often than any other mental health or personality disorder category (Not sure if this includes Anti-Social Personality Disorder though but that's a whole another level on Cluster B personality disorders), but that when we decide to go for it, it's not an emotional overwhelming moment that can be defined as a "suicidal crisis", and I can attest to this right now with what I am feeling, it's a sense of total lack of meaning in life, so we methodically, coldly and unempathetically plan the destruction of our own life due to the total lack of meaning, which is other words complete despair.

I can go into further detail in what that scientific article did not as I believe I can speak on this issue, that we plan/think of suicide lacking any empathy towards ourselves since we never learned any to begin with due to abusive parenting, we have a past full of suddenly revealed regret, remorse, missed opportunities, heartbreak and severe loss, nothing positive to hang onto back there in the past, no meaning or joy, and total loss of the ego and sense of self identity and place in the world in the present, and therefore no hope at all for the future, complete and total despair. Now pose this situation to anybody and ask them what they would do in such a situation, and I have tried, and they can't even begin to conceptualise it, "just move on" and I reply "what, move on from everything that has happened to me in my entire life, from the abuse I suffered as a child, to what the severe damage to others psychologically and emotionally this NPD which developed as a result of that childhood abuse I suffered then maladaptively caused the women I tried to love and who tried to love me, and then, wait that's an entire life of misery and regret, guilt, remorse and it's all come to my realisation once the false facade narrative of the NPD came crashing down in the space of a week or two of self-analysis... so yeah do I just get over and move on from what is essentially my entire life of pain and misery to myself and others, from my birth until now nearly age 40? ...

Right... yeah just get over it hey... fu*k me senseless, are people fucking serious, or does the whole world lack empathy and I was the idiot that bothered to do some self-reflection for once, and now I have essentially given myself a death sentence that nobody can understand, where if I end my life they would just cry "oh it's a tragedy that could have been prevented?"
Yeah prevented if I was not unlucky to have been born to an abusive mother who made my childhood a living nightmare, but since I was a child I did not know any other way, which then turned me into a monster lacking empathy, sure then maybe my suicide could have been prevented.
But if I tell them how they would process such a thing, after I spell out exactly for them what I am dealing with by putting it into terms they understand, such as "imagine the thing you are most proud of in life, ok now imagine you just realised that you were in denial about that and you were not actually good at that for your entire life, how would you process that, then think of your childhood being damaged by your abusive mother for her own needs as she basically cannibalised her own child to meet her own emotional needs... now think how you would feel....." silence and mumbling and no clear answer..... and they suicide can always be prevented.... yeah, if I was aborted before being born maybe.

It just pisses me off, so much suffering, including ultimately myself who wanted nothing more than to have a chance at a normal life and have a loving wife and kids, not even to be wealthy, just a family of my own... and that hope cruelly taken away by my mother cannibalising her own child for her own emotional needs, whilst ignoring my own... and yet my suicide can be prevented... fu*k off ignorant society! That's all I can say to that.

How on earth am I supposed to process and move on from this?
I did not ask for this abuse, I did not ask for my life to be damaged, those women who tried to love me did not deserve the emotional and psychological abuse I gave them without me realising what I was even doing was abuse to begin with due to my own abuse in childhood.
All suicides can be prevented, ah fu*k off to ass*oles that say this ignorant bulls*it!

 

[byebyemadworld]

Beautifully written!
When people say that there is always a way out of depression or a bad situation, that's just not true.
People should be allowed to choose how and when to end their lives through a peaceful method (I'm talking about adults).

 

[furry-doomer]

That depends i think about mine will be peacefull and fine fast something like pills or some shit like that

 

[mybiggiebaad]

This is really out of context. But how can i post? i dont't know who to ask, and i really want to vent right now.

 

[chuerdhmproton]

totally agree

 

[Falling Slowly]

this was an interesting take and the use of citations really bolsters your claims. it was well-written.

from my family, to people in my community, suicide has been viewed as selfish, even due to mental illness. it greatly feels like the complete scope of suicide is not accounted for, as we have autonomy over our lives.

to be honest, i don't know if we are real. all feels like a bad dream.

Most people are caught up in the fairytale version of life, where everyone lives happily ever after. They are not aware of the hell that some people go through.
If people feel that life isn't worth living, or if the pain they are experiencing is too much, they should be able to do as they please with their life.
No-one chooses the life they're given, if they're dealt a shitty hand, then they should be able to end their life as they please.

 

[synthcadia]

Most people are caught up in the fairytale version of life, where everyone lives happily ever after. They are not aware of the hell that some people go through.
If people feel that life isn't worth living, or if the pain they are experiencing is too much, they should be able to do as they please with their life.
No-one chooses the life they're given, if they're dealt a shitty hand, then they should be able to end their life as they please.

indeed, i agree with this. i'd choose a different life if i could.

 

[Cheffo]

Nah fuck that...my closest friend actually said that I fake everything that happens to me... HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING IN MY HOUSE... THIS DRUNK IDIOT IS AWAYS FIGHTING WHIT MY MOM AND IS HITTING ME Almost EVERY DAY... IM SO FUCKING LONELY THAT I WANNA KILL MYSELF SO MUCH AND NOW IM GHOSTING FOR 3 WEEKS AND THEN IM GONNA END IT I LIVE AT THE EIGHT FLOOR SO IT MUST BE EASY RIGHT?

There seems like some other solutions to that , no? Could you not get the law involved? Just plain run away? There are runaway shelters in the US I believe. Are you in the US? I am not against suicide, just wonder if you thought of all options. Perhaps there is someone in your neighborhood who could step in? Man, I wonder if this is one of the reasons people join gangs, for protection. I am not saying you do that, just an observation.

 

[anaximandro]

I think I can offer some insight here, as a man nearing age 40 now, who never understood some people's spur of the moment or regretting suicide stories that I have seen on YouTube, and then recently discovered I have had Narcissistic Personality Disorder all my life, then reading on suicide and NPD when the defenses come down and denial is all gone from the past and the present, and reading that those with NPD attmeopt suicide less often than any other mental health or personality disorder category (Not sure if this includes Anti-Social Personality Disorder though but that's a whole another level on Cluster B personality disorders), but that when we decide to go for it, it's not an emotional overwhelming moment that can be defined as a "suicidal crisis", and I can attest to this right now with what I am feeling, it's a sense of total lack of meaning in life, so we methodically, coldly and unempathetically plan the destruction of our own life due to the total lack of meaning, which is other words complete despair.

I can go into further detail in what that scientific article did not as I believe I can speak on this issue, that we plan/think of suicide lacking any empathy towards ourselves since we never learned any to begin with due to abusive parenting, we have a past full of suddenly revealed regret, remorse, missed opportunities, heartbreak and severe loss, nothing positive to hang onto back there in the past, no meaning or joy, and total loss of the ego and sense of self identity and place in the world in the present, and therefore no hope at all for the future, complete and total despair. Now pose this situation to anybody and ask them what they would do in such a situation, and I have tried, and they can't even begin to conceptualise it, "just move on" and I reply "what, move on from everything that has happened to me in my entire life, from the abuse I suffered as a child, to what the severe damage to others psychologically and emotionally this NPD which developed as a result of that childhood abuse I suffered then maladaptively caused the women I tried to love and who tried to love me, and then, wait that's an entire life of misery and regret, guilt, remorse and it's all come to my realisation once the false facade narrative of the NPD came crashing down in the space of a week or two of self-analysis... so yeah do I just get over and move on from what is essentially my entire life of pain and misery to myself and others, from my birth until now nearly age 40? ...

Right... yeah just get over it hey... fu*k me senseless, are people fucking serious, or does the whole world lack empathy and I was the idiot that bothered to do some self-reflection for once, and now I have essentially given myself a death sentence that nobody can understand, where if I end my life they would just cry "oh it's a tragedy that could have been prevented?"
Yeah prevented if I was not unlucky to have been born to an abusive mother who made my childhood a living nightmare, but since I was a child I did not know any other way, which then turned me into a monster lacking empathy, sure then maybe my suicide could have been prevented.
But if I tell them how they would process such a thing, after I spell out exactly for them what I am dealing with by putting it into terms they understand, such as "imagine the thing you are most proud of in life, ok now imagine you just realised that you were in denial about that and you were not actually good at that for your entire life, how would you process that, then think of your childhood being damaged by your abusive mother for her own needs as she basically cannibalised her own child to meet her own emotional needs... now think how you would feel....." silence and mumbling and no clear answer..... and they suicide can always be prevented.... yeah, if I was aborted before being born maybe.

It just pisses me off, so much suffering, including ultimately myself who wanted nothing more than to have a chance at a normal life and have a loving wife and kids, not even to be wealthy, just a family of my own... and that hope cruelly taken away by my mother cannibalising her own child for her own emotional needs, whilst ignoring my own... and yet my suicide can be prevented... fu*k off ignorant society! That's all I can say to that.

How on earth am I supposed to process and move on from this?
I did not ask for this abuse, I did not ask for my life to be damaged, those women who tried to love me did not deserve the emotional and psychological abuse I gave them without me realising what I was even doing was abuse to begin with due to my own abuse in childhood.
All suicides can be prevented, ah fu*k off to ass*oles that say this ignorant bulls*it!

Man I'm 33 an have the same chilhood and parents. Maybe a little more violents one, not sure. I can't stop thinking about my childhood, about feeling alone, about being bullied by my mom. Also I dont wanna work on me anymore, we are supossose to learn to process, to have better relations, to avoid repeating patterns in relations. Man It's a lot.

 

[cosnidering_ctb]

Thank you.

 

[Epikur]

"Anyone who disagrees with this idea is not only seen as wrong but as being pathologically out of touch with reality"

Thank you for your very thoughtful and enlightening words. Present-age moral and ethics have not changed since the middle ages where suicide was seen as one of the deadly sins that will be punished with an eternity in hell. Today it is more subtle, but still exists. Here I do not speak of the coercive medical system that sends suicidal people into the nuthouse. This is obvious. I mean the more subtle manipulation that we encounter 24/7. We only accept death when someone is as old as the hills and multimorbid. All other deaths have to be prevented by hook or by crook. Here I also do not speak of medical care with all its means of curing seriuos illnesses, for which I am thankful that it exists. But if you look at, say, commercials - people spend trillions in more or less useless health-products. You have to be healthy. You have to be slim and sportive. You have to spend time on yoga or meditation and be spiritual. You have to optimize yourself all the way. Buy a wristband that records your efforts in order to live up to 100. Anyone who does not so steps down the social ladder. Suicidal people are at rock-bottom level. When suicide occurs, people say "he was so young, he had such a good life, so why did he do it? Could only be a mental disease". The obligation to live a long life is an imperative one has to obey, at any costs.

Fortunately, the German Constitutional Court in 2020 pointed out that people have an unalienable right to end their lives at any age or at any health condition. The public outcry could not be overheard. Of course there very many supporters who welcomed that decision. But churches and other social groups including conservative parties went bananas. The court ruled that suicide assistance is legal and should be regulated by law (in a positive, enabling way). What happened? Politicians but bills on the table that would foresee two psychiatric examinations in 3 months distance, and, indirectly implying a "good reason" for death. Luckily, the bill did´t go through. But the more liberal bill didn´t either. Discussions are going on. I am still optimistic that there will be no backlash.

 

[regular ferret]

suicide doesn't remove the pain...just passes it on to someone else i believe

I've always hated this opinion.
Why should I suffer endlessly so that someone else doesn't have to suffer for a little while?
Why put guilt on someone who is already in agony?
You can try to talk someone out of suicide, but don't phrase it as if they are some sort of villain for wanting freedom. That's some kind of evil I can't even fathom