A

Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
Posted this in the megathread but it may deserve more attention. I know what's Nitschke claims.

But what's the LD50 for humans ? (' The value of LD50 for a substance is the dose required to kill half the members of a tested population after a specified test duration')

For animals I've seen values ranging from 80 to 180 mg/kg. Hypothetically, for a human of 60 kg that would be 4.8 gr to 10.8 gr.

You're above that if you take 15 gr, but let's keep in mind that 50 % of people will survive an LD50 dose. that's not even counting those who ask for HELP.

What's the deal ?
 
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hunter_lewis

Specialist
Sep 17, 2018
335
In general, LD50 is lower for humans than it is for animals. But humans only use the LDLO. Here it says the LDLo 71 mg for humans per kg. However, there are great individual differences in the dosage-some people only need a little and some need a lot. If you want to be sure, take not 15gr but up to to 30-40g.
http://godeepak.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/sodium-nitrite.pdf
 
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JosiahB

Member
Oct 24, 2018
11
I have been following NaNO2 threads on several Exit forums and I have yet to encounter the report of someone surviving a 15 gram dose. However if the Ld50 of NaNO2 is 180 mg/kg that might bring the adequacy of a 15 gram dose into question. I will ask Dr. Nischke about this.
 
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JosiahB

Member
Oct 24, 2018
11
In general, LD50 is lower for humans than it is for animals. But humans only use the LDLO. Here it says the LDLo 71 mg for humans per kg. However, there are great individual differences in the dosage-some people only need a little and some need a lot. If you want to be sure, take not 15gr but up to to 30-40g.
http://godeepak.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/sodium-nitrite.pdf
Thanks for this link. LDLo appears to be a particularly useless number for helping to arrive at a 100% Lethal dose for humans.
 
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hunter_lewis

Specialist
Sep 17, 2018
335
I have been following NaNO2 threads on several Exit forums and I have yet to encounter the report of someone surviving a 15 gram dose. However if the Ld50 of NaNO2 is 180 mg/kg that might bring the adequacy of a 15 gram dose into question. I will ask Dr. Nischke about this.

is he active on the forums?
Can you say how many approx. used SN and died on those forums?
Is there anyone there who used azide?
@JosiahB
 
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Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
@JosiahB ,

You're alble to contact him, or in contact with him ? I guess you could always try twitter if you wanted ..

ldlo 71 mg/kg lowest lethal dose for a 60 kg human 4.3 gr. A member here survived azide, not sure how.
It's brutal if you are harmed but survive. To be honest, my first reaction when looking up some specifics is N is full of ****. It's not 'if it doesn't help, it doesn't harm'. Humans are not pigs.

I wonder what 5 % will survive a high dose ... perhaps some people would survive. What if that death takes a long time ? Not to mention the 'help' factor.
 
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JosiahB

Member
Oct 24, 2018
11
@JosiahB ,

You're alble to contact him, or in contact with him ? I guess you could always try twitter if you wanted ..

ldlo 71 mg/kg lowest lethal dose for a 60 kg human 4.3 gr. A member here survived azide, not sure how.
It's brutal if you are harmed but survive. To be honest, my first reaction when looking up some specifics is N is full of ****. It's not 'if it doesn't help, it doesn't harm'. Humans are not pigs.

I wonder what 5 % will survive a high dose ... perhaps some people would survive. What if that death takes a long time ? Not to mention the 'help' factor.
One carefully monitored NaNO2 Exit of a small woman 100 lbs who took only 10 grams of nitrite had her very sleepy after 5 minutes and unconscious after 12 minutes and she died after 43 minutes.
 
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samsays89

Student
Oct 4, 2018
139
If they were just given sodium nitrite then we don't know what percentage of the sodium nitrite was turned into less lethal sodium nitrate due to the presence of stomach acid. The instructions for sodium nitrite specify taking an antacid specifically to avoid this scenario.

That could account for a large amount of survivors. Small creatures also usually have a fast metabolism. A better comparison would be feral hogs since they're larger. Except from reports I've read about feral hogs, humans are somehow more efficient than feral hogs at naturally overcoming the effects of Sodium Nitrite.

I think that 15 g or 71mg/kg taken with an antacid and anti emetic stands as the lethal dose for humans unless someone can provide a case where this method failed. Comparing to animals is kind of apples to oranges.
 
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Justanotherconsumer

Justanotherconsumer

Paragon
Jul 9, 2018
974
@JosiahB ,

You're alble to contact him, or in contact with him ? I guess you could always try twitter if you wanted ..

ldlo 71 mg/kg lowest lethal dose for a 60 kg human 4.3 gr. A member here survived azide, not sure how.
It's brutal if you are harmed but survive. To be honest, my first reaction when looking up some specifics is N is full of ****. It's not 'if it doesn't help, it doesn't harm'. Humans are not pigs.

I wonder what 5 % will survive a high dose ... perhaps some people would survive. What if that death takes a long time ? Not to mention the 'help' factor.

As far as the azide survival here is that thread.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/have-sodium-azide.6034/
 
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A

Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
Note, as found in this website's 'archive':

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-is-a-social-club.2656/ in particular post #19 and later. Well founded questions.

It's always good to attack a method from theoretical and practical points of view.
I'm starting to get a preference for immediate, quick, violent and lethal alternatives - often, hard to realize in the real world.

Jai as mentioned in #9 survived his latest SA attempt. Details as of yet unknown.
 
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Deutschv2

Deutschv2

Student
Sep 23, 2018
177
One carefully monitored NaNO2 Exit of a small woman 100 lbs who took only 10 grams of nitrite had her very sleepy after 5 minutes and unconscious after 12 minutes and she died after 43 minutes.
Thanks for this great information! If you have any other cases it would be great. But once again thank you this is good very.
 
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Jai

Jai

Specialist
Sep 23, 2018
384
Note, as found in this website's 'archive':

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-is-a-social-club.2656/ in particular post #19 and later. Well founded questions.

It's always good to attack a method from theoretical and practical points of view.
I'm starting to get a preference for immediate, quick, violent and lethal alternatives - often, hard to realize in the real world.

Jai as mentioned in #9 survived his latest SA attempt. Details as of yet unknown.
I did mate took 2g in diluted in water and an antacid no access to antiemetics almost immediately palpitations went into overdrive short of breath shaking collapsed full on fear and panic worst headache ever seeing colours I collapsed a few times laid up on a bed and the effects subsided slightly except the migraine this lasted around 8 hours became light sensitive and got tinnitus in my ears making my legs shake light headed and unstable on my feet unconsciousness never came then the violent vomiting started and lastest over 24 hours blue bile first then green and yellow weak migraine shaking throughout effects lasted 4 days to any kind of recovery now maybe not related but 2 weeks later I started to get pins and needles in my feet and they were ice cold a few days later I was severely unstable on my feet I fell mutiple times in public injuring my ankle the next day I couldn't move my legs toes or feet they were frozen solid I was paralyzed ii went to hospital and have been here a week the symptoms have moved up my legs and my hands and arms can't stand or walk and motor function in my hands is poor hardly any coordination things are getting worse not better they have diagnosed me with Gullian Barre Syndrome you guys look it up too long to explain the symptoms in on all sorts of shots and meds permanently on a monitor can't sleep and taking a fuck load of immuno globin if that doesn't work I'll be on plasma extraction /fusion not sure if SA had anything to do with it
But it's too coincidental for me I do not recommend SA extremely painful I'm Not sure if you took a massive dose you would skip what I went through and go unconscious quick anyway that's my attempt not trying to dissuade anyone if this is your method just telling you what happened to me peace out
Edit I never measured the amount but I reckon anything between 1.5g to 3g
y
 
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Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
@Jai ,

Thanks for the report. That's of course SA, not SN. I checked the PPEH but not other (all) sources. It is suggested that a few grams is sufficient.
The 2 gr dose should have worked.

(although I did find one exception: https://www.researchgate.net/public...ium_Azide_Poisoning_with_Toxic_Cardiomyopathy 15 gr but she did vomit)

Once source suggests it is excitatory in the CNS:
https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=391&Sectionid=42069841

Palpitations and headache are familar symptoms. Vomiting also (since you didn't take an antiemetic), but @Jai : important question: the vomiting started only after 8 hours ? It would have been different if the SA had been excreted with the vomit shortly after ingesting it.

It seems a very brutal experience and the long term consequences of survival can be serious, obviously.
I'm sorry about your ordeal. Thanks for sharing.
 
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Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
As far as the azide survival here is that thread.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/have-sodium-azide.6034/
@Jai,

The dose you mentioned (1.5 to 3 gr) is that the dose you took in one attempt, or in consecutive doses as in https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/have-sodium-azide.6034/
 
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Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
@Sayo ,

I got the impression you know about physics/chemistry. Any input ? In particular #1 and #10.
 
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Jai

Jai

Specialist
Sep 23, 2018
384
@Jai,

The dose you mentioned (1.5 to 3 gr) is that the dose you took in one attempt, or in consecutive doses as in https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/have-sodium-azide.6034/
About a gram or so first to test the taste in about a pint of water taste wasn't bad and then already mixed what I deduced to be 1.5 or 2g again in a pint you have to take into consideration this was impulsive so even though I know roughly what a gram looks like there is a margin of error possibly here but in all honesty it really could of been around 3 g or it could of been closer to two I was in a place with no access for measuring spoons/cups
 
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Jai

Jai

Specialist
Sep 23, 2018
384
My major concern after I sort of recovered was I'd forgotten the risk of blindness this troubled me for days and I'm sure I was subconscious playing tricks on myself
 
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Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
I have serious doubts about this method. The same for SA. If you are elderly and close to death, have nothing to lose and in intense physical pain you could try. Not the same for a healthy 40 year old.

Nitschke ... if anyone has access to the exit forums or other sources, I wonder how often it works versus fails. Taking into account all factors. The way Nitschke describes it, it's almost a hypnotic ! I wonder if it's not irresponsible. See also #10.

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/pimg016.htm#SectionTitle:9.1%20%20Acute%20poisoning

'Ingestion

Ingestion is the major route of exposure. The first symptoms may appear within 10 to 45 minutes. Methaemoglobinaemia is the principal and constant feature of nitrate/nitrite poisoning. Clinical symptoms may include: nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, headache, dizziness, fall in blood pressure, tachycardia, collapse, bluish-grey cyanosis, hyperventilation, stupor, convulsions, coma and death. '

Say that symptoms appear after 30 minutes. By that time you haven't lost consciousness yet. Then, whatever happens till you are 'out'.

I know a Dutch group abandoned it for SA.
 
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Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
@Jai ,

To get this clear (posts in several threads): you didn't throw up for the first 8 hours after taking the stuff, or did you ?
 
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