SN question

[MoveAlong]

Hi, this is my first post so first I would like to say hello to everyone.
I made a SN drink with 20 g of SN and 50 ml of water to see how it would look. I observed that the drink turned cold. I tested it a second time and it made the liquid cold.
Is this normal? For reference I have the HM 417 SN. It has been unsealed for about a month but I believe I store it correctly.

 

[quiet.rabbit]

How cold exactly? Like freezing cold or slightly cool?

 

[Greenberg]

Hi, this is my first post so first I would like to say hello to everyone.
I made a SN drink with 20 g of SN and 50 ml of water to see how it would look. I observed that the drink turned cold. I tested it a second time and it made the liquid cold.
Is this normal? For reference I have the HM 417 SN. It has been unsealed for about a month but I believe I store it correctly.

H2O + NO2(-) ⇌ OH(-) + HNO2

When mixed with water, there is a severe cooling effect because the solvation of NaNO2 in water is endothermic.

 

[MoveAlong]

How cold exactly? Like freezing cold or slightly cool?

Pretty close to freezing cold. The samples were both in plastic cups and I was able to make a wet print on the outskirts of cup in the area the water went up to.

 

[LastFlowers]

This is the first time I've heard of this, what was the temperature of the water before you added the SN?

 

[quiet.rabbit]

H2O + NO2(-) ⇌ OH(-) + HNO2

When mixed with water, there is a severe cooling effect because the solvation of NaNO2 in water is endothermic.

Thats nitrite not sodium nitrite. That is an important difference in chemistry. One of the chemicals that makes up salt for example, is very reactive, while salt is not. NaNO2 has different properties from NO2. This freezing thing has never been reported on here before so it isnt NaNO2.

Pretty close to freezing cold. The samples were both in plastic cups and I was able to make a wet print on the outskirts of cup in the area the water went up to.

OP what does the packaging of the SN say? Does it just say nitrite (NO2)? Maybe you confused the two but even then what you have is not SN. Dont use it!!!! Look at PPEH in the resource megathread and search for SN, you will see a pic and description of the mixture. It does not mention freezing temperatures.
Make sure the bottle says sodium nitrite (NaNO2).

 

[MoveAlong]

Thats nitrite not sodium nitrite. That is an important difference in chemistry. One of the chemicals that makes up salt for example, is very reactive, while salt is not. NaNO2 has different properties from NO2. This freezing thing has never been reported on here before so it isnt NaNO2.


OP what does the packaging of the SN say? Does it just say nitrite (NO2)? Maybe you confused the two but even then what you have is not SN. Dont use it!!!! Look at PPEH in the resource megathread and search for SN, you will see a pic and description of the mixture. It does not mention freezing temperatures.
Make sure the bottle says sodium nitrite (NaNO2).

The packaging does say nitrite. I will make another sample and if it's still the same result I'm just going to have to get a new one.

 

[MoveAlong]

I tested it again and it turned cold instantly.
Anyone know what could be cause for this? maybe I didnt store it correctly?
The HM 417 has been used many times and this has never been reported so I will have to replace.

 

[Greenberg]

There is the possibility that the product has fully oxidized and turned into sodium nitrate. Sodium nitrate when dissolved in water is DEFINITELY endothermic. Hope that helps!. Best

 

[r2d2020]

I tested it again and it turned cold instantly.
Anyone know what could be cause for this? maybe I didnt store it correctly?
The HM 417 has been used many times and this has never been reported so I will have to replace.

If you have HM 417 or 3959 the label should state "Sodium nitrite", "NaN02" and have an expiration date which is the date after an hourglass symbol. Are you sure the bottle wasn't damaged? Was the cap seal intact and was the entire bottle wrapped in plastic?

It would be helpful if you could report the temp after mixing.

 

[Greenberg]

I tested it again and it turned cold instantly.
Anyone know what could be cause for this? maybe I didnt store it correctly?
The HM 417 has been used many times and this has never been reported so I will have to replace.

Out of an abundance of caution, I suggest that you consider replacing it. Best!

 

[MoveAlong]

There is the possibility that the product has fully oxidized and turned into sodium nitrate. Sodium nitrate when dissolved in water is DEFINITELY endothermic. Hope that helps!. Best

Thats what I was thinking. I must have not closed it properly and it oxidized.

 

[Greenberg]

Thats what I was thinking. I must have not closed it properly and it oxidized.

These things happen. No need to risk an unsuccessful outcome. Feel free to PM me when you are able.

 

[quiet.rabbit]

There is the possibility that the product has fully oxidized and turned into sodium nitrate. Sodium nitrate when dissolved in water is DEFINITELY endothermic. Hope that helps!. Best

Where did you get this info? I've tried looking this up but found nothing.

 

[Greenberg]

Where did you get this info? I've tried looking this up but found nothing.

Sodium nitrite when exposed to air oxidizes and decomposes into sodium nitrate. When dissolved in water, the reaction is endothermic: https://www.answers.com/Q/How_does_sodium_nitrate_cool_water. Best!

 

[quiet.rabbit]

Sodium nitrite when exposed to air oxidizes and decomposes into sodium nitrate. When dissolved in water, the reaction is endothermic: https://www.answers.com/Q/How_does_sodium_nitrate_cool_water. Best!

That's not a trustworthy source. You shouldn't use random sites to get information for something as important as CTB and share it carelessly. This WarLord person was most likely some random kid when they posted that answer, not an expert. If you have any sources that come from a textbook or chemists then post it but if you don't then please don't spread that info again.

 

[Greenberg]

No offense is taken. Hope this helps:

NaNO3 dissolved in water, the temp of the solution is lowered.

O'Neil, M.J. (ed.). The Merck Index - An Encyclopedia of Chemicals, Drugs, and Biologicals. 13th Edition, Whitehouse Station, NJ: Merck and Co., Inc., 2001., p. 1544

 

[quiet.rabbit]

No offense is taken. Hope this helps:

NaNO3 dissolved in water, the temp of the solution is lowered.

O'Neil, M.J. (ed.). The Merck Index - An Encyclopedia of Chemicals, Drugs, and Biologicals. 13th Edition, Whitehouse Station, NJ: Merck and Co., Inc., 2001., p. 1544

Do you happen to have a link where I can access that book?

 

[Greenberg]

Sorry, it is a textbook. I am sure you can order from the Jungle or find it in the library. Best!

 

[quiet.rabbit]

Sorry, it is a textbook. I am sure you can order from the Jungle or find it in the library. Best!

Ok I found the 12th edition of that book and it does indeed say that. It also said that NaNO2 and water make a basic solution while the NaNO3 and water solution is neutral. These could be two other ways to know whether the SN is not too oxidized. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Greenberg]

Ok I found the 12th edition of that book and it does indeed say that. It also said that NaNO2 and water make a basic solution while the NaNO3 and water solution is neutral. These could be two other ways to know whether the SN is not too oxidized. Thanks for sharing!

You are welcome! Best