SN being attacked by class action lawsuit

[Teddybear]

While its next to impossible to outlaw a common substance like SN, the do-gooder faction has come up with a classic means to accomplish privately what they couldn't get done via public legislation: Class action law suits

Sodium nitrate suicide lawsuit investigation

If you attempted suicide or if a loved one died due to a sodium nitrate overdose, you may have a legal claim. Learn more now.

topclassactions.com

If this catches on then most private businesses will stop selling SN simply to avoid expensive law suits. Which is just the intended purpose.

I wonder when they'll start to litigate over razor blades ...

 

[Wunderkind]

The SN method is not easy and not the most peaceful, now it is under threat ...

 

[Teddybear]

The SN method is not easy and not the most peaceful, now it is under threat ...

I don't like using it either - but what else is one to do?

 

[MammothJack]

Sounds like a good case to me, assuming the facts from the link are accurate. It'll turn on whether it's "reasonably foreseeable" that the product would be used to facilitate suicide. The fact that news articles pointed to this website in the last few years will be relevant. The website also says Amazon actively removed reviews mentioning the danger. Products liability is a category of strict liability torts. If they can prove that Amazon owed a duty to the general public to warn them about potential misuse of the substance and breached that duty by not doing so, the plaintiffs won't even have to prove causation.

With that said, I don't see why it would make it more difficult to locate. All that any seller would really need to do is place a big warning saying, "Misuse can result in serious injury or death." The bigger risk is public outcry; sodium nitrite has very limited uses outside an industrial setting and could become a controlled substance if enough people learn about its misuse.

 

[Teddybear]

Sounds like a good case to me, assuming the facts from the link are accurate. It'll turn on whether it's "reasonably foreseeable" that the product would be used to facilitate suicide. The fact that news articles pointed to this website in the last few years will be relevant. The website also says Amazon actively removed reviews mentioning the danger. Products liability is a category of strict liability torts. If they can prove that Amazon owed a duty to the general public to warn them about potential misuse of the substance and breached that duty by not doing so, the plaintiffs won't even have to prove causation.

With that said, I don't see why it would make it more difficult to locate. All that any seller would really need to do is place a big warning saying, "Misuse can result in serious injury or death." The bigger risk is public outcry; sodium nitrite has very limited uses outside an industrial setting and could become a controlled substance if enough people learn about its misuse.

And I strongly suspect its exactly that public outcry - and not a simple warning label - the plaintiffs here are truly after. That and a big cash settlement. The question of "free will" doesn't even arise anywhere here.

PS: I don't regard the use of SN as an exit substance by a grown adult who hasn't been declared mentally unfit as a "misuse".

 

[Judy Garland]

I just read the case. They don't even have the right product. They're calling it Nitrate instead of Nitrite.

 

[Teddybear]

I just read the case. They don't even have the right product. They're calling it Nitrate instead of Nitrite.

Many people confuse the two.

 

[Judy Garland]

Many people confuse the two.

True, but if you're a lawyer planning to take this to court, you should have your facts straight. I mean, a lawyer who wants to take this to court calling it Nitrate instead of Nitrite, that's a big error there.

 

[Teddybear]

True, but if you're a lawyer planning to take this to court, you should have your facts straight. I mean, a lawyer who wants to take this to court calling it Nitrate instead of Nitrite, that's a big error there.

Yep, but its not about the court case, isn't it? Its about the public's outcry and the scaremonger effect this will have on Amazon and most other online retailers.

 

[martinso67]

Sounds like a good case to me, assuming the facts from the link are accurate. It'll turn on whether it's "reasonably foreseeable" that the product would be used to facilitate suicide. The fact that news articles pointed to this website in the last few years will be relevant. The website also says Amazon actively removed reviews mentioning the danger. Products liability is a category of strict liability torts. If they can prove that Amazon owed a duty to the general public to warn them about potential misuse of the substance and breached that duty by not doing so, the plaintiffs won't even have to prove causation.

With that said, I don't see why it would make it more difficult to locate. All that any seller would really need to do is place a big warning saying, "Misuse can result in serious injury or death." The bigger risk is public outcry; sodium nitrite has very limited uses outside an industrial setting and could become a controlled substance if enough people learn about its misuse.

In my country (western european country) its already.a controlled substance and only available to certain industrial chemical companies that are alowed to purchase it.

So unfair thr only available method would be train or jumping suicide.

 

[Thánatos.]

In my country (western european country) its already.a controlled substance and only available to certain industrial chemical companies that are alowed to purchase it.

So unfair thr only available method would be train or jumping suicide.

That's too bad. Here in Brazil SN is easily accessible, they sell up to 800kg! I bought mine today.

 

[Rocket]

This is an ambulance-chasing ploy. It's not a lawsuit, it's a potential "Sodium nitrate assisted suicide lawsuit investigation". They are trying to get people to sign up, there are dozens of these kind of fishing expeditions. You're right above, while in the copy it says "Nitrate" but in the copy it also says "(and related additive sodium nitrite)" -- addictive? That's a sign of how flimsy this is.

The disclaimer/info at the bottom of the page explains that https://topclassactions.com/ isn't a law firm, it's an ad firm where lawyers pay to fish for potential class-action clients. Their homepage shows dozens of "possible" lawsuits that could be brought. It is a huge deal to certify a class-action and it's a long, long process. This is just hunting for enough people to have an "investigation". It's ridiculous how litigious America is, it increases costs for consumers on everything. It's shady and I think wrong when people are in such pain and hurt for people like this to be fishing for a contingency class-action fee (they'd probably get 30-40% of any settlement).

A NY and Alabama lawyer are paying to see if they can make some money and that's legal but repulsive. Steven's firm is in Sayville, New York, he's a (of course) personal injury lawyer and his website is https://gaclawyer.com/ . His New York State Bar is # 2517589 and he's practiced since 1993. Background at https://lawyers.justia.com/lawyer/steven-douglas-gacovino-1212937. His site is https://gaclawyer.com/ and he's also pumping "Injured By Firefighting Foam, Juul E-Cigarettes, Or Talcum Powder?".

He's got a JUUL case going in the 9th Circuit https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/USCOURTS-cand-3_19-md-02913/summary with NO ACTION since January 2020. https://www.cand.uscourts.gov/judge...ales-practices-products-liability-litigation/. That usually means FAIL. So Steven is trying find other sources of revenue (putting it nicely).

19-2913 - In Re: Juul Labs, Inc., Marketing, Sales Practices, and Products Liability Litigation
Court Type District
Court Name United States District Court Northern District of California
Circuit 9th
Office Location San Francisco
Nature of Suit Personal Injury - Product Liability

This is Steven Gacovino:




And here's the disclaimer:

Counsel responsible for this advertisement includes:

Law Office of Steven Gacovino

PAID ATTORNEY ADVERTISEMENT: THIS WEB PAGE IS AN ADVERTISEMENT AND THE PARTICIPATING ATTORNEY(S) ARE INCLUDED BECAUSE THEY PAY AN ADVERTISING FEE. Top Class Actions is not a law firm, lawyer referral service, or prepaid legal services plan and does not provide legal advice. We do not endorse or recommend any third-party claims processing company, lawyer, or law firm who participates in the network. We do not make any representation, and have not made any judgment, as to the qualifications, expertise, or credentials of any participating lawyer or processing group. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Anyone considering a lawyer should independently investigate the lawyer's credentials and ability, and not rely upon advertisements or self-proclaimed expertise. No representation is made that the quality of the legal services or claims processing to be performed is greater than the quality of legal services or claims processing performed by other lawyers or claims processing group. The information contained herein is not legal advice. Any information you submit to Top Class Actions does not create an attorney-client relationship and may not be protected by attorney-client privilege because Top Class Actions is not a law firm. Instead, your information will be forwarded to an attorney or their agent(s) or a claims processing firm for the purpose of a confidential review and potential representation if you qualify. Your initial call may not be with a licensed attorney and does not constitute legal advice or create an attorney-client relationship. An attorney-client relationship will only be created by a written agreement between a law firm and a client. The statements made here do not fully state all the requirements needed for a successful case. This advertisement is not a guarantee or warranty of any legal matter. No legal fee unless you win but the client may be responsible for costs of litigation and any awarded costs and fees. You will only be contacted by an attorney or their agent(s) in response to your inquiry if your initial information appears to qualify you for representation. If you are not contacted by an attorney or their agent(s) within one week, you should consult another firm since all legal claims are subject to filing deadlines. All photos contained on this website are of models and do not depict clients. Participating law firms: Law Office of Steven Gacovino, 270 W. Main St., Sayville, NY 11782, in association with Melissa Prickett, Beasley Allen, 218 Commerce Street, Montgomery, AL 36104. For additional terms, disclaimers and conditions please visit www.beasleyallen.com/terms-of-use. See www.gaclawyer.com/terms-of-use/ for additional disclaimers. By submitting your information to Top Class Actions, you agree to be contacted by the participating law firms and/or legal service providers, even if you are on the "Do Not Call" registry. Non-attorney spokesperson. Dramatization.

In short, this is just a fishing expedition that is a long, long way from ever becoming any sort of class-action lawsuit. It's not worth your time and certainly is nothing to be worried about.

 

[Teddybear]

In short, this is just a fishing expedition that is a long, long way from ever becoming any sort of class-action lawsuit. It's not worth your time and certainly is nothing to be worried about.

Oookay, I hope Amazon and other online retailers see it similarly. I already got my SN and right now don't feel like using that ticket to ctb. But if they litigate SN out of the public's reach, they could do the same with N or any other means to get-the-f-outta-here.

So I hope you're right that these wannabe lawsuits never make it past puberty.

 

[Teddybear]

I was close to concluding this won't go anywhere, until I reaad this article:

Lawsuit Over Alleged Fortnite Addiction Approved by Canadian Judge

A 2019 lawsuit will move to its next phase.

www.pastemagazine.com

If a North American judge is willing to entertain the (ludicrous) idea that a game developer is responsible for kids getting hold of mom's and dad's credit card, equating a game to a dangerous drug, then his collegues the world over will surely classify a substance known to be used for suicidal purposes not lesser than that.

 

[Enemy of Evolution]

Let me say it again.
What the f..k
What the f..k
Have we fallen this far that we can't even afford Right to peaceful death with dignity.

 

[Teddybear]

Let me say it again.
What the f..k
What the f..k
Have we fallen this far that we can't even afford Right to peaceful death with dignity.

Well, if parents can sue a game developer over a few hundred dollars their kids spend online, guess what they'll be able to do to merchants selling SN or like substances?

I don't think kids belong on the bus but you could just as well outlaw kitchen knifes with that argument - because someone is sure to kill someone else with one of those (if they haven't already done so).

Addictive Software - I am a programmer by profession and never knew I was dabbling in control substances all these years.

 

[Enemy of Evolution]

Well, if parents can sue a game developer over a few hundred dollars their kids spend online, guess what they'll be able to do to merchants selling SN or like substances?

I don't think kids belong on the bus but you could just as well outlaw kitchen knifes with that argument - because someone is sure to kill someone else with one of those (if they haven't already done so).

Addictive Software - I am a programmer by profession and never knew I was dabbling in control substances all these years.

I fear for the day when government will charge fines on the people for not giving birth to future soldiers and slaves to government.
I fear for the day when government will force us to have kids.
I fear for the day when government will outright say to us that they are the "overlords of this farm of human".

 

[CrappyMJ]

SN will probably suffer the same fate that helium did eventually, aka not viable

 

[Jarni]

in France, for example, SN will be prohibited for food by 2025...

 

[Teddybear]

in France, for example, SN will be prohibited for food by 2025...

If a major EU member like France does that it means other countries will follow suit. No more curing of meat or ctb'ing with SN after that.

 

[Jarni]

If a major EU member like France does that it means other countries will follow suit. No more curing of meat or ctb'ing with SN after that.

Yes.. It will depend on the butcher's "lobby" etc, but the tendency is here...as SN is cancerigenic...

 

[Teddybear]

Yes.. It will depend on the butcher's "lobby" etc, but the tendency is here...as SN is cancerigenic...

That would be a big worry for me: Catching cancer from SN

 

[ForeverLonely82]

Suicide should be a right, not a privilege. Our lives are shit and put in permanent place that we want to escape from and sometimes CTB is the only route. Like myself for instance (I know I talk about me too much here, but try to forgive me) I have NO friends, none, zero and my family couldn't possibly care less. I have to call them if I want to talk to them and ALL they talk about is themselves and their bullshit, like I am suppose to help when I can't even help myself with too many constructs in the way of recovery. I've always said "Not everyone is destined for greatness" yet, normies and spoon fed yuppies deny that fact, they've been carried and are blessed with what we desire, but just can't obtain no matter what we do. I know this a long winded post, sorry. I don't think they should get rid of methods and let some of us go in peace, as there is nothing for us in this life and we were damned since birth.

 

[MammothJack]

It is a huge deal to certify a class-action and it's a long, long process. This is just hunting for enough people to have an "investigation". It's ridiculous how litigious America is, it increases costs for consumers on everything. It's shady and I think wrong when people are in such pain and hurt for people like this to be fishing for a contingency class-action fee (they'd probably get 30-40% of any settlement).

Yep. I'm not sure they could meet the numerosity requirement for a Rule 23 class. There *might* be over forty people who bought sodium nitrite from Amazon. Most of the people on this forum seem unlikely to buy their supplies from a large seller though. Mass tort cases are notoriously difficult to handle as well. If it were me, I would focus in on one state with strong statutory protections and use its cause of action instead of sounding in tort. If I succeeded, I might be open to a tort action in other states.

With all that said, there's a good failure-to-warn case there if Amazon and other sellers are not marking dangerous products with warnings. Or, worse, if they are doing that for some products but not sodium nitrite. I wouldn't pay for leads but I would definitely consider a contingency fee case if someone's mom or husband called with these facts.

 

[Teddybear]

Yep. I'm not sure they could meet the numerosity requirement for a Rule 23 class. There *might* be over forty people who bought sodium nitrite from Amazon. Most of the people on this forum seem unlikely to buy their supplies from a large seller though. Mass tort cases are notoriously difficult to handle as well. If it were me, I would focus in on one state with strong statutory protections and use its cause of action instead of sounding in tort. If I succeeded, I might be open to a tort action in other states.

With all that said, there's a good failure-to-warn case there if Amazon and other sellers are not marking dangerous products with warnings. Or, worse, if they are doing that for some products but not sodium nitrite. I wouldn't pay for leads but I would definitely consider a contingency fee case if someone's mom or husband called with these facts.

In Canada four families managed to convince a judge to put a video game in the same category as a controlled substance - over a few hundred bucks those parents said they lost.

So I don't see why going against the distributor(s) of a substance known to be used for self-termination should pose such a huge hurdle in comparison.

 

[Enemy of Evolution]

Suicide should be a right, not a privilege. Our lives are shit and put in permanent place that we want to escape from and sometimes CTB is the only route. Like myself for instance (I know I talk about me too much here, but try to forgive me) I have NO friends, none, zero and my family couldn't possibly care less. I have to call them if I want to talk to them and ALL they talk about is themselves and their bullshit, like I am suppose to help when I can't even help myself with too many constructs in the way of recovery. I've always said "Not everyone is destined for greatness" yet, normies and spoon fed yuppies deny that fact, they've been carried and are blessed with what we desire, but just can't obtain no matter what we do. I know this a long winded post, sorry. I don't think they should get rid of methods and let some of us go in peace, as there is nothing for us in this life and we were damned since birth.

Talk about yourself. We will listen you. "Not everyone is destined for greatness." This made me emotional. The truth of this line is just too much to put in words. I can write a book of that title alone. Well said bro.

In Canada four families managed to convince a judge to put a video game in the same category as a controlled substance - over a few hundred bucks those parents said they lost.

So I don't see why going against the distributor(s) of a substance known to be used for self-termination should pose such a huge hurdle in comparison.

Holy fuck does this really happened on this earth. Is video game control substance to be censored by fucking government.

 

[ForeverLonely82]

Talk about yourself. We will listen you. "Not everyone is destined for greatness." This made me emotional. The truth of this line is just too much to put in words. I can write a book of that title alone. Well said bro.

You're welcome. I felt this way since my 20s because nothing panned out and was always thrown away like trash. I believed the problem was me, but after studying situations...I wasn't the problem. Always been kind and open to people who I cared about, sure we had disagreements, but that's everyone once in a while. Always thought if someone cared enough about another, they talk things over after a argument. Even leaving it open for discussion or interpretation, but they would look at it like "Well, F him then, good bye" and DISPOSED! I don't bother looking for friends because the cycle never stops. I am married, but not happy. let's just say the person before I got hitched with her is different from the one I married. I know that's common and it's quite sad. Still lonely, Just roommates. I am too scared to CTB and wouldn't while my mother lives because even though she's inflicted her christian of abuse on me through life, I wouldn't dream of hurting her that way.

 

[Teddybear]

NZ just passed a lifelong ban on all tobacco products. Other "Western" countries will follow suit. If they classify video games and tobacco as "dangerous" (never mind free speech opposing the mainstream), then why should they treat H, N, SN or the likes as matters of personal choice? Bottom line: If you want out, you are on your own.

@ForeverLonely82 - Whatever the issues are that stand between you and yuor mother, try to resolve them as long as she is still alive. I missed that chance with mine and it only made things worse between us.

 

[Enemy of Evolution]

You're welcome. I felt this way since my 20s because nothing panned out and was always thrown away like trash. I believed the problem was me, but after studying situations...I wasn't the problem. Always been kind and open to people who I cared about, sure we had disagreements, but that's everyone once in a while. Always thought if someone cared enough about another, they talk things over after a argument. Even leaving it open for discussion or interpretation, but they would look at it like "Well, F him then, good bye" and DISPOSED! I don't bother looking for friends because the cycle never stops. I am married, but not happy. let's just say the person before I got hitched with her is different from the one I married. I know that's common and it's quite sad. Still lonely, Just roommates. I am too scared to CTB and wouldn't while my mother lives because even though she's inflicted her christian of abuse on me through life, I wouldn't dream of hurting her that way.

It's very considerate of you. Thinking about other is good. People usually don't change. We can ignore them. And keep busy in your own world , in your own passion, reading, watching, travelling anything to keep mind busy. We will die one day. That's very certain. No one can change that. We can enjoy till that day come.

 

[Rocket]

Yep. I'm not sure they could meet the numerosity requirement for a Rule 23 class. There *might* be over forty people who bought sodium nitrite from Amazon. Most of the people on this forum seem unlikely to buy their supplies from a large seller though. Mass tort cases are notoriously difficult to handle as well. If it were me, I would focus in on one state with strong statutory protections and use its cause of action instead of sounding in tort. If I succeeded, I might be open to a tort action in other states.

With all that said, there's a good failure-to-warn case there if Amazon and other sellers are not marking dangerous products with warnings. Or, worse, if they are doing that for some products but not sodium nitrite. I wouldn't pay for leads but I would definitely consider a contingency fee case if someone's mom or husband called with these facts.

Very true, Jack and agree. Would be hard to imagine a Rule 23 would proceed because joinder of all members is impracticable. Also agree on a contingency fee case as a step more possible and likely.

But it will be an enormous battle: Amazon has massive indemnification clauses on their third-party seller agreements. They recently imposed that all third-party sellers must have their own liability policies with Amazon as an indemnified insured. Amazon includes failure-to-warn language in their TOS & Membership agreements, along with language on most product pages that provide warnings or distance from the sold items. To my knowledge, Amazon itself has not manufactured and sold the product so getting to them directly would be a huge challenge. And most of the third-party sellers will be judgment proof.

I was primarily commenting on the immediacy of such an action; another topic discusses potential Congressional action and some folks were worried something like that could happen very quickly. Just as with this, in my opinion there's a long road ahead before any substantial legal or governmental action occurs. Self-regulation by sellers has a much faster chance of happening. Thanks for your great message.