Venting Sick of how often depression is treated, as if it were a muzzle to silence conflicting opinions.

[Imaginos]

Fucking tired on how quickly you get dismissed by others once you mention you're depressed. Suddenly you're just some mentally ill dolt who doesn't have the right to say a damn thing about anything. All your thoughts suddenly become worthless because you're "mentally ill". You'll get this bullshit on pretty much every major website out there, along with on every sub-reddit above 10000 users. Places like these are all populated by smug life loving normals who think they have a better grasp on reality than you do. Try to say anything that goes against their values and boy will they dogpile on you. Dismissing and belittling the fuck out of everything you say. Fucking sick of it. God damned normal infested shit holes everywhere. I might as well be a blood covered bucket of chum to those clueless sharks. Broadly speaking, the internet is no different than real life now. I have as much place in any of it, as I do in the flesh and blood world. That being, none at all.

 

[NodusTollens]

I can appreciate the sentiment of what you're saying.

The sheer amount of censorship surrounding suicide creates the "no man's land" on which suicidal people lay their heads. The powers that be have created a battlefield of sorts leaving the mentally "healthy" on one end & the mentally ill on the other. Ready to dive into recovery (because who really wants to feel this way) we begin our trek to the other side, encountering life stressors along the way- we're maimed in the process of healing by friendly fire, well wishes that fail to give meaningful support & long wait times that leave us in death's crosshairs for long than we've ever intended. Then when we're unable to continue we're ridiculed for not being strong enough- despite the journey to arrive where we are in life.
It's maddening.

If we opened up discussions, stopping people from suffering in silence- alone, & removed involuntary holds for mentioning ideation- then I feel we could start making some real progress forward.

 

[Imaginos]

I can appreciate the sentiment of what you're saying.

The sheer amount of censorship surrounding suicide creates the "no man's land" on which suicidal people lay their heads. The powers that be have created a battlefield of sorts leaving the mentally "healthy" on one end & the mentally ill on the other. Ready to dive into recovery (because who really wants to feel this way) we begin our trek to the other side, encountering life stressors along the way- we're maimed in the process of healing by friendly fire, well wishes that fail to give meaningful support & long wait times that leave us in death's crosshairs for long than we've ever intended. Then when we're unable to continue we're ridiculed for not being strong enough- despite the journey to arrive where we are in life.
It's maddening.

If we opened up discussions, stopping people from suffering in silence- alone, & removed involuntary holds for mentioning ideation- then I feel we could start making some real progress forward.

I certainly agree with you, but it's not just discrimination against the rights and wishes of the suicidal where this stuff applies. It's everything. The moment you admit to being depressed, then everything you say usually becomes suspect from then on and deemed as little more than a byproduct of that "skewed" mindset.

Heck, I just experienced this the other day when trying to express my opinion on a random video game I'd finished recently in a sub-reddit dedicated to discussing such things. Lo and behold, everyone took my words and my opinion as being tainted and clouded by my own sense of depression. None of my points had any merit to these people, not one bit of my perspective was taken seriously by anyone. The moment you even hint at or suggest that you suffer with depression, this immediately and almost always discredits your point of view to the large majority of people out there. At the end of the day, nobody likes a buzzkill. If people get a whiff that you might be one, then you're immediately dismissed or put in a tiny box reserved for the depressed. Or, in other words, those who apparently don't know any better about anything. I can't tell you how frustrating this is to deal with and how it kills even the simplest and most benign of topics. I can in fact tell you that it's because of this sort of thing right here, that I have no chance to ever find a place for myself either online, or in the flesh and blood world.

Of course, I'm still very lonely and there are many occasions where I desperately wish I could talk to someone about that which might interest me from time to time, but I'm always faced with the fact there's nowhere for me to go. Everywhere is the same old story, of the type I've described above. Since there's no escape from it, I guess I should just try harder to be satisfied with my own thoughts, since the alternative, or that which involves reaching out to others, will only lead to a useless waste of time for everyone involved. In the end, I just wish people weren't so quick to dismiss a depressed person for everything they say as having no merit or being the result of their troubled minds, but I guess that's asking for too much.

 

[NodusTollens]

I certainly agree with you, but it's not just discrimination against the rights and wishes of the suicidal where this stuff applies. It's everything. The moment you admit to being depressed, then everything you say usually becomes suspect from then on and deemed as little more than a byproduct of that "skewed" mindset.

Heck, I just experienced this the other day when trying to express my opinion on a random video game I'd finished recently in a sub-reddit dedicated to discussing such things. Lo and behold, everyone took my words and my opinion as being tainted and clouded by my own sense of depression. None of my points had any merit to these people, not one bit of my perspective was taken seriously by anyone. The moment you even hint at or suggest that you suffer with depression, this immediately and almost always discredits your point of view to the large majority of people out there. At the end of the day, nobody likes a buzzkill. If people get a whiff that you might be one, then you're immediately dismissed or put in a tiny box reserved for the depressed. Or, in other words, those who apparently don't know any better about anything. I can't tell you how frustrating this is to deal with and how it kills even the simplest and most benign of topics. I can in fact tell you that it's because of this sort of thing right here, that I have no chance to ever find a place for myself either online, or in the flesh and blood world.

Of course, I'm still very lonely and there are many occasions where I desperately wish I could talk to someone about that which might interest me from time to time, but I'm always faced with the fact there's nowhere for me to go. Everywhere is the same old story, of the type I've described above. Since there's no escape from it, I guess I should just try harder to be satisfied with my own thoughts, since the alternative, or that which involves reaching out to others, will only lead to a useless waste of time for everyone involved. In the end, I just wish people weren't so quick to dismiss a depressed person for everything they say as having no merit or being the result of their troubled minds, but I guess that's asking for too much.

You're right, though I referred specifically to discrimination, I know it extends much further. Using myself as an example, I have had multiple DRs over the years disregard symptoms I was experiencing & chalking it up with being depressed. I've cried in these instances & lost faith in the medical system.

I'm sorry you had to experience that. It's hard enough managing the symptoms of depression & to gather the courage/energy to speak up, only to be ridiculed once you do. No one deserves that.

I hear you, finding a "safe space" can be challenging, especially online with so many different opinions & cultural perspectives. How do you feel about sharing on SS & are you able to share your thoughts with anyone IRL?

I find talking things out helps me break down the things that bog down my mind, though I do struggle with my self esteem/self worth so I find it easier to share online than in person. SS just happens to be that place for me.

I hope you're able to find somewhere you feel safe to share the things that are bothering you, holding everything in, IMO- just makes everything worse. You don't have to share here, but I hope you can find a place/person to vent to.

 

[Livingvsdying25]

Yeahhh I get what your saying and share the same sentiments. Suddenly eveey behavior isn't valid or as valid/nor opinions or feelings. People within mental health support spaces do it a lot too. Like sometimes I feel like I gotta fight for my right to still be a person with wavering opinions/feelings etc.

It's frustrating. I can't handle being dehumanized while trying to get support but I feel like thats normalized... all the while the same message is "you need get support of you are struggling"

I dunno but these are some of the things I hear from society personally. Some of the things I experience all the time.

 

[Imaginos]

How do you feel about sharing on SS & are you able to share your thoughts with anyone IRL?

Yes, I've been trying to ease my way again this community. I've had some good conversations with others here, but sometimes, when it comes to a particular topic beyond what you could reasonably expect others to speak on, like discussing a random video game from 20 years ago or what have you, then it becomes a little difficult in that sense to try and find what you're looking for. As far as real life is concerned, my mother is the only person in existence I can talk to. My brother, who lives his own life and only comes to visit us on occasion, isn't the sort of person I can really talk to about anything beyond throwaway topics, like discussing what anime we've watched recently. We have a neutral relationship, but not a very close one. At the of the day, he and I live in two utterly different universes.

That just leaves my mother whom, thankfully, I get along quite well with. She's not the best advice giver most of the time, but she understands me about as well as could be hoped from anyone. Truthfully, she's my only friend. Lately however, I've gotten quite frustrated with our talks. She herself suffers and struggles a lot with depression and anxiety. Not to the extent that I do, but it's still something she has to deal with. It's like we just take turns complaining about our lots in life. And, in the end, nothing ever changes. We're both trapped in quicksand. We need someone to throw us a rope, but there's no there to do so. In a sense, it's led to a bit of downward spiral where we almost codependently reinforce each other's state of being.

But, even in that, it's only a small piece of the larger picture. We have no support structure, no significant spending money, no relatives to lean on, no opportunities to guide us out of the individual pits we find ourselves in. It's been like this for as long as I've been a hermit, to tell you the truth. For as long as I've been alive really. Both my mother and I finally took a turn for the better in the past couple years, but it hardly amounted to much. We're both still stuck and trapped where we find ourselves. My mother's wake-up call came in the form of my father revealing nearly two decades worth of affairs to her. She actually tried to kill herself not long afterwards. In an interesting turn of events, my father then became diagnosed with ALS. That was a little over a year ago now and, at this point, he's in a critical condition and isn't likely to survive much longer. I resent my father for a great many things, things personal to myself, but I don't hate him. I just wish he cared more about being a father, instead of it always seeming like such a tiresome hassle for him to put up with. When my father dies, which will probably be soon, I doubt I'll be shedding any tears. It's a sad thing, but so has been much of my life. I have to say that I'm used to it by this point.

For me and my mother, I'm not sure where we'll go from here. I don't see a way forward that won't just lead to more of the same. My mother was practically dying in her bed of weight gain and ennui before the affairs came out. At least now, she's far healthier than she was. She was attending church and getting to know people in the community before all the COVID lockdowns came into effect. Perhaps more changes will come in the future, but I don't really know. I can't hope for anything. There's nothing that could ever turn things around for me. Absolutely nothing.

I eat extremely well, I exercise fairly regularly, I take health supplements and pro-biotics, but none of it matters. My heart is dead. Like a black, shriveled up a little raisin. Everything is a futile waste of time. Lately, I can't even stand talking with my mother anymore. I feel like every word that comes out of my mouth is like a wet ball of sludge. It's painfully useless, since nothing ever happens. Whenever I go on about how lonely I am, my mother has a tendency to remark about how "negative" I am and that this is why I'll never manage to make connections with others. I snapped at her pretty hard the other night due to this sort of thing and how immensely frustrating it is for me hear her say such ignorant things. I guess she's right on some level, but what the hell else am I supposed to do? I am what I am. If that's too negative for somebody else, well they can just buzz the hell off. I won't censor my feelings on account of anyone. If that means I stay alone, then so bloody be it.

holding everything in, IMO- just makes everything worse. You don't have to share here, but I hope you can find a place/person to vent to.

I don't know. You know what's worse to me? Letting it out and not having it make a damn difference either way. I've struggled with that a lot, as a matter of fact. This insufficient sense of catharsis that seems to follow me no matter how, or how little it is that I say. Talk has become very cheap to me now. The uselessness of it only exacerbates my plight. As it stands, I don't even want to talk to my mother anymore. Like I said before, it's like we just take turns dumping our bullshit on each other and I'm fucking TIRED of it. She can't help me and I can't help her, so what the hell is the use? At the end of the day, I'll always be stuck where I'm at, falling further and further down my own personal hole to nowhere, until someday I can hopefully manage to kill myself.

 

[NodusTollens]

As far as real life is concerned, my mother is the only person in existence I can talk to.

She's not the best advice giver most of the time, but she understands me about as well as could be hoped from anyone. Truthfully, she's my only friend

Though she's not the best at giving advice, do you find any benefit in talking to her?

We need someone to throw us a rope, but there's no there to do so. In a sense, it's led to a bit of downward spiral where we almost codependently reinforce each other's state of being.

What would you like someone to do to throw in the rope- how would that look to you?

When my father dies, which will probably be soon, I doubt I'll be shedding any tears. It's a sad thing, but so has been much of my life. I have to say that I'm used to it by this point.

I'm really sorry that you had to deal with the situation surrounding your father. It sounds complicated & I can't imagine the teetering emotions you're going through- to go from caring about his health to hating him for what he's done. HUGS.

Perhaps more changes will come in the future, but I don't really know. I can't hope for anything. There's nothing that could ever turn things around for me. Absolutely nothing.

How come you don't think there anyway to turn things around?

My heart is dead. Like a black, shriveled up a little raisin. Everything is a futile waste of time. Lately, I can't even stand talking with my mother anymore. I feel like every word that comes out of my mouth is like a wet ball of sludge. It's painfully useless, since nothing ever happens. Whenever I go on about how lonely I am, my mother has a tendency to remark about how "negative" I am and that this is why I'll never manage to make connections with others. I snapped at her pretty hard the other night due to this sort of thing and how immensely frustrating it is for me hear her say such ignorant things. I guess she's right on some level, but what the hell else am I supposed to do? I am what I am. If that's too negative for somebody else, well they can just buzz the hell off. I won't censor my feelings on account of anyone. If that means I stay alone, then so bloody be it.

No no, don't censor yourself. That won't benefit you in anyway, especially since you're already finding it difficult to share in the first place. From what you're saying, it sounds like the inability to share what you're feeling & really be heard (without being called negative words) is taking its toll on you mentally- bogging you down. Have you ever tried speaking to anyone outside your family?

I don't know. You know what's worse to me? Letting it out and not having it make a damn difference either way. I've struggled with that a lot, as a matter of fact. This insufficient sense of catharsis that seems to follow me no matter how, or how little it is that I say. Talk has become very cheap to me now. The uselessness of it only exacerbates my plight. As it stands, I don't even want to talk to my mother anymore. Like I said before, it's like we just take turns dumping our bullshit on each other and I'm fucking TIRED of it. She can't help me and I can't help her, so what the hell is the use? At the end of the day, I'll always be stuck where I'm at, falling further and further down my own personal hole to nowhere, until someday I can hopefully manage to kill myself.

I wish I could change these things in your life & give you the space to express & be yourself. You deserve a space for yourself & the ability to be heard. HUGS. You mentioned a hope that one day you'll manage to CTB, is this something you desire or a passive hope that things will get bad enough that you can just do it?

 

[Imaginos]

Though she's not the best at giving advice, do you find any benefit in talking to her?

Not at the moment, I'm afraid. Usually though, I rely on her a lot for the fact that she understands me pretty well and I can talk about pretty much anything that might be bothering me. It just gets frustrating on the occasions where neither of us are really hearing what the other is saying and we're just talking past each other, or taking turns dumping on each other. It's the sort of thing that becomes tiresome pretty quickly, for obvious reasons.

What would you like someone to do to throw in the rope- how would that look to you?

Well, that's hard to say. I guess, for me, that rope would mostly take the form of a purpose of some kind. But even that feels too nebulous and inaccurate an answer. I say purpose, but I really have no idea how I'd define that. To put it as bluntly as possible, me and my mother both need tangible help. Friends, a support structure, enough money to allow us the freedom in life to not be suffocated by our circumstances. I mean, heck, I'd say most people could use a rope thrown to them like that. Be that as it may, that's exactly the sort of rope I require. If I had all that, maybe I could try going to a skilled therapist and, with enough money as a cushion, cobble together some plan to find some meaning in my life. Without these various forms of assistance, I'm kind of just stuck where I'm at in life. Sort of like how most people are stuck in their own lives, limited as they are by lack of money and outside support.

How come you don't think there anyway to turn things around?

Lack of resources, that's part of it. Mostly though, I feel like I'm too far gone on the inside. I've spent too long like this and, largely speaking, I've been fully hollowed out. I feel like a person without a soul, or an otherwise totally empty vessel. There's nothing behind my eyes anymore and I feel far closer to the dead than I do the living. I'm not sure I really want anything anymore, or am even capable of wanting anything. Fun, contentment, or joy, could never have any residence within me. All that's left is killing time to the grave.

Have you ever tried speaking to anyone outside your family?

Outside of what we're doing here? No, never. That would be the worst thing I could do. Don't get the wrong idea, my mother is a very nice and compassionate woman. She really is. It's just that sometimes she thinks she's trying to help, but just ends up saying stuff that really doesn't accomplish that very much. Still though, that's more the exception to the rule. A lot of times she makes the mistake of thinking that I'm looking to her to give me an answer to my problems, when really I just want her to listen and agree where appropriate with what I'm saying/feeling. And, to her credit, she does do this. I mean, yeah, she can get up her own butt a bit from time to time, but don't we all? When it comes to her, no one could ever be more safe for me to talk to. I could never open up to a stranger face to face. She's not perfect, but I trust my mother. She's the only person I ever have. Talking with anyone else could never be the same.

You mentioned a hope that one day you'll manage to CTB, is this something you desire or a passive hope that things will get bad enough that you can just do it?

Both, but it's largely a passive matter, instead of one I'm actively planning and working towards. As you pointed out, I'm really just waiting for things to either get bad enough that I might finally acquire the nerve to actually kill myself, or to die in some other unforeseen way. Like in a random accident, or through a terminal illness, or some such other thing. Either way, I'm just waiting to die. That's an extremely far cry from living and, for what it's worth, I only consider myself alive in the most technical sense of the word. If I were ever asked how I'm doing, I'd simply say that I'm "surviving", since that really is all I'm doing.

By the way, thanks for sharing some interest in how I'm doing and offering some encouragement. I wish the same to you as well.

 

[NodusTollens]

It just gets frustrating on the occasions where neither of us are really hearing what the other is saying and we're just talking past each other, or taking turns dumping on each other. It's the sort of thing that becomes tiresome pretty quickly, for obvious reasons.

That's fair. When anyone is in that kind of mental state, it's easy to miss opportunities to support others. I mean it's hard to save anyone else when your house is on fire- so to speak. So when you're ready to vent & say she's not ready to be a listening- who do you turn to? Who supports you?

Friends, a support structure, enough money to allow us the freedom in life to not be suffocated by our circumstances. I mean, heck, I'd say most people could use a rope thrown to them like that. Be that as it may, that's exactly the sort of rope I require. If I had all that, maybe I could try going to a skilled therapist and, with enough money as a cushion, cobble together some plan to find some meaning in my life. Without these various forms of assistance, I'm kind of just stuck where I'm at in life. Sort of like how most people are stuck in their own lives, limited as they are by lack of money and outside support

I hear you, I find myself in much the same boat. When so many things around us aren't up to par, how can seeking therapy even be an option? This is where I, myself, am stuck. It keeps coming back to: how long can I go on like this before I have to make a choice? Limbo is killing me slowly & is no way to live.

I feel like a person without a soul, or an otherwise totally empty vessel. There's nothing behind my eyes anymore and I feel far closer to the dead than I do the living. I'm not sure I really want anything anymore, or am even capable of wanting anything

This I certainly understand & I wish I knew what to do about it. How do you make yourself feel real or like more than an animated corpse. When was the last time you really wanted something for yourself? (Aside from wanting to maybe CTB)

A lot of times she makes the mistake of thinking that I'm looking to her to give me an answer to my problems, when really I just want her to listen and agree where appropriate with what I'm saying/feeling. And, to her credit, she does do this. I mean, yeah, she can get up her own butt a bit from time to time, but don't we all?

Ah yes- mine was notorious for this as well. I had to eventually tell her when I was / wasn't looking for advice. Otherwise it would just turn into an argument. Maybe you could try telling her what you need from her when it's time for you to vent? Tried it & it worked... well, it's a work in progress- maybe it could help you with your mom. Just a thought.

She's not perfect, but I trust my mother. She's the only person I ever have. Talking with anyone else could never be the same

No, I hear you- I wouldn't suggest that you have to speak with anyone else, I was just curious about who you turn to when you're in need of a good vent session.

I only consider myself alive in the most technical sense of the word. If I were ever asked how I'm doing, I'd simply say that I'm "surviving", since that really is all I'm doing.

Just surviving is no way to live. You don't get a chance to thrive as yourself & are instead forced to push all forms of pleasure & self discovery to the way side. So you never get to ask yourself, what do I like? What makes me happy? What am I passionate about? Instead it's: can I afford this? Do I have time for this?

By the way, thanks for sharing some interest in how I'm doing and offering some encouragement. I wish the same to you as well

You're welcome, I'm glad I could help a little.

 

[Imaginos]

So when you're ready to vent & say she's not ready to be a listening- who do you turn to? Who supports you?

Well, no one. There is nothing else. She and I are all we've got. Up until recently, and upon returning to SS, I wasn't even venting to others online. Here and there, like upwards of a year ago now, I'd make use of AMBs (anonymous message boards), but those places are so often bereft of compassion or concern and far more emburdened by hostility and snap judgements. They were always too brutal a place for a fragile cupcake like me to have any business using, but I went in and out of them for years, getting burned for opening up and finding myself needlessly upset by the antics of sadists, before I finally understood that it was simply better for me to say nothing and, more importantly, avoid them like the plague. I have no idea why I was such a glutton for punishment in this sense because it didn't have to be that way. I guess the thing about an AMB is that it was quick and it held no strings attached. At the same time, it only got me deeper down my own hole of self-isolation, since it routinely destroyed any desire I had to reach out to others.

As an alternative to this, I just started writing my thoughts to myself, in my own little corner of the internet. However, once this wasn't enough, I finally found the wherewithal to return to SS and try my luck here. In retrospect, it would have been better if I had never left, instead of mucking around niche AMBs and getting routinely exposed to the grotesque levels of flippancy that usually pervade them.

How do you make yourself feel real or like more than an animated corpse.

Well, that's a good question. However, the unfortunate fact is, that I don't. I endure myself and I try and to cope using what few things I can grab hold of. Which, in my case, doesn't amount to very much. I drown out my thoughts with music, I occupy my attention with random forms of media, I kill my brain activity with sleep, and I vent/talk with my mom and, as of now, also SS.

Exercise was/is bitterly disappointing for me and, I gotta tell you, it does little to improve my mood for the better. More than anything, it's simply tedious and boring. That's something I've never quite been able to shake, I'm afraid. If I were living a decent life already, then perhaps exercise might have some additional value to me, but as a reclusive ghost, that value is significantly diminished, if not non-existent altogether.

I will say though that, starting last year, I've become much more involved in fixing up our old house. I did a lot of stuff from landscaping, to clearing out old junk, to organizing things from top to bottom, to painting, to even operating a jackhammer. For the first time in a long time, I felt as if my life actually had purpose. I finally felt like I had something meaningful to do. I'm hoping, come the Spring, that maybe I can do more stuff like this. It won't really be the same, since there's not as much stuff to do now, but at least it'll be something. Better than sitting around in my room and rotting away like I were already corpse, as I usually do. Such as right now, for instance.

When was the last time you really wanted something for yourself? (Aside from wanting to maybe CTB)

Hmm, I'm not sure I remember. Last time I actually felt excited or looked forward to something must've been when I was a young kid. Stuff like Summer vacations, or looking forward to holidays like Halloween or Christmas, or getting a hold of some new video game I was eagerly anticipating and hyped over. Nowadays, the idea of love, true everlasting love, is the only thing in existence that could pass as a desire of mine. Even an ocean liner full of cash delivered to my door step wouldn't really matter to me. I mean, of course, it would be helpful, but it's not something that I'd really want, if that makes sense. When it comes to love, at least some part of myself seems to cling to it as a subterranean desire. One that, ultimately, really only amounts to a fantasy in my head. It'll never be real and, even if it were, it would do more harm than good. I'm not a very well adjusted person (putting it lightly) and, I'll be honest, there are times where I can be a downright malicious beast. I would never want anyone to see that, let alone experience it. At the end of the day, it's better to be alone. It's lonely (crushingly so), but, in the end, it's still the lesser of two evils.

Maybe you could try telling her what you need from her when it's time for you to vent?

Hah, yeah. I mean, that sometimes work, but I don't know. Somehow it's like she doesn't even hear me. The way it so often goes, I'm the one having to listen to her dump on me, and not the other way around. I'm usually the one having to give her advice, or to comfort her with my words somehow. In my case, she listens and she gets it, but, when it comes down it, it just never seems to mean anything. She's sincere as could be, that's not the issue, it's just....I don't know. Maybe I'm more at fault here than anything. Like I said, talking and venting about this stuff with her for the hundredth frigging time can feel so painfully hollow and empty. There comes a point where I feel like I just want to scream out loud and shout obscenities at the top of my lungs, simply for the sake of something different. Instead of the same tired old words uttering and falling out of my mouth as if they were wet balls of sludge slowly oozing down a wall. If you vent to someone long enough, you already know what their reaction will be, along with whatever their own tired assortment of words will be. In the end, you can't draw fresh water from a well used and polluted pond. This applies to both me and my mother, frankly. Although she doesn't seem as bothered by it as I am.

So you never get to ask yourself, what do I like? What makes me happy? What am I passionate about? Instead it's: can I afford this? Do I have time for this?

I got time a plenty and even a modest amount of savings/spending money, but so what? What does a dead man have for such things? As an example, I decided to get an Oculus Rift early January of last year. It was on sale, so I thought why not, but you know what? The thing is still sitting in its unopened box, gathering dust in my closet. At the end of the day, I couldn't even work up the motivation to try the thing out. I just didn't care and I still don't. I bought myself a laptop too and it was roughly the same story. Thing's just sitting in my room gathering dust now. So I'd have to say, that no. I don't think about what makes me happy or what I'm passionate about, because nothing does. How will I endure another day of myself? If I ever think of anything along these lines, this is it. Surviving for me, means just that. I'm simply sitting around doing nothing, but eating, sleeping, staying hydrated, defecating, and otherwise managing my own body for no other reason, than this is what it demands of me so long as I'm alive.

Sorry for such a one-sided conversation, by the way. I just wouldn't know what to ask you.

 

[NodusTollens]

As an alternative to this, I just started writing my thoughts to myself, in my own little corner of the internet. However, once this wasn't enough, I finally found the wherewithal to return to SS and try my luck here. In retrospect, it would have been better if I had never left, instead of mucking around niche AMBs and getting routinely exposed to the grotesque levels of flippancy that usually pervade them.

Ugh, after reading that I just want to give you the biggest hug. What you just mentioned demonstrates the pitfalls surrounding current public MH practices. It's one things to have your mother to vent & talk to, but when she's feeling down / not emotionally available, who do you turn to? Seeking MH services could have you waiting for a year minimum, where anything can happen in your life between then & when you were initially referred. When you finding yourself brimming with things to say & no one to say it to- it starts to eat at you slowly & lead you to places like SS. I understand to an extent what you mean, I would periodically frequent SS on Reddit, then I took a break & eventually joined this site. In the time in between SS, had you tried to seek professional support?

Even an ocean liner full of cash delivered to my door step wouldn't really matter to me. I mean, of course, it would be helpful, but it's not something that I'd really want, if that makes sense. When it comes to love, at least some part of myself seems to cling to it as a subterranean desire. One that, ultimately, really only amounts to a fantasy in my head. It'll never be real and, even if it were, it would do more harm than good. I'm not a very well adjusted person (putting it lightly) and, I'll be honest, there are times where I can be a downright malicious beast. I would never want anyone to see that, let alone experience it.

This genuinely makes me happy to hear... >.> now if only winter would end. Finding a sense of purpose or something to give your life meaning is not an easy task. How did you come into renovating this home?

Nowadays, the idea of love, true everlasting love, is the only thing in existence that could pass as a desire of mine. Even an ocean liner full of cash delivered to my door step wouldn't really matter to me. I mean, of course, it would be helpful, but it's not something that I'd really want, if that makes sense. When it comes to love, at least some part of myself seems to cling to it as a subterranean desire. One that, ultimately, really only amounts to a fantasy in my head.

Reading this paragraph, I was taken aback by your shift from wanting love to thinking love with you is hazardous. Initially I wanted to ask why you'd believe so, but I realize I may understand. Have you stopped dating all together? Do you fear only your actions towards a future partner?

I can appreciate that. I put dating on hold over the past few years, out of fear of what's out there & fear of myself in a relationship. I don't recognize myself when I'm in one & I fear assault when it comes to dating.

Somehow it's like she doesn't even hear me. The way it so often goes, I'm the one having to listen to her dump on me, and not the other way around. I'm usually the one having to give her advice, or to comfort her with my words somehow. In my case, she listens and she gets it, but, when it comes down it, it just never seems to mean anything. She's sincere as could be, that's not the issue, it's just....I don't know.

A thought crossed my mind, does she even know how? Does she know what she's "supposed" to say? I was wondering for two reasons: 1) I like to empathize with others, but find myself often unable to find the words to be compassionate (I'm not used to hearing them, so I'm making it up as I go). 2) When I tried with my mother, I had to coach her as much as I was coaching myself. She just didn't know (We aren't currently speaking, so I couldn't tell you how effective it is).

There comes a point where I feel like I just want to scream out loud and shout obscenities at the top of my lungs, simply for the sake of something different. Instead of the same tired old words uttering and falling out of my mouth as if they were wet balls of sludge slowly oozing down a wall.

Now that's understandable! I felt the same way this morning, I kept feeling like I wanted to scream because I had so much to say & no one to talk to (I live alone & think aloud to fill the space). Sometimes it just feels like hell (though I'm thinking it's anxiety) while I wait for the feeling to subside or reach a point of forcible ejection. So maybe she's not as bothered by your venting because she has more space to accept the emotions surrounding your thoughts. I mean she gets to decompress in way you cannot- maybe your great listening skills give her more room to breathe while you aren't given the same space. Btw, you have quite the way with words.

How will I endure another day of myself? If I ever think of anything along these lines, this is it. Surviving for me, means just that. I'm simply sitting around doing nothing, but eating, sleeping, staying hydrated, defecating, and otherwise managing my own body for no other reason, than this is what it demands of me so long as I'm alive.

Now that's the question of the day... month- decade? Guess it depends on how long you've wanted to CTB, heh. I feel a lot of us here are experiencing this.

I know one person who went from actively wanting/trying to CTB (here on SS) to actively trying to recover & they tell me that you just have to do it. Not saying that what you want, but their thing was they wouldn't just sit around & just exist anymore because the mental anguish it was causing was debilitating (They were unsuccessful in CTB, but also actively wanted to die). This resonated with me it got me thinking. If I can't overcome my SI, & I actively want to die- how do I move forward? I had to start living around my ideation. Sometimes I ask myself a variation of "If I didn't want to die & had energy, what would I be doing with my time?" It helps me sometimes.

That's okay. It's your time to vent, just trying my best to lend an ear.

 

[Imaginos]

In the time in between SS, had you tried to seek professional support?

No, I'm afraid not. Being the agoraphobe that I am, there's not a chance in hell I could ever follow up on such a thing. That is assuming I wanted to which, to be honest, I really don't. I was dragged to a lot of shrinks when I was a kid and I can tell you that that was enough for a lifetime. Even outside of that, I'm highly skeptical of therapy. Without the necessary resources and outside support to carry the therapy forward, it can never truly go anywhere. That's not even getting into the fact that it can be very difficult to find a compatible therapist, one that works for you and that you can feel safe with. I don't have it within me to play that sort of game, not one bit, which leaves me both unable and unwilling to avail myself of these sorts of services.

I also don't want to have pills pushed on me. I absolutely refuse to consider the legalized drug racket which is pharmaceutical medication. I took Effexor and Paxil very briefly when I was a kid (for little over a month) and it didn't do me a bit of good. If anything, I sometimes worry how it might've effected my development, since someone as young as I was SHOULD NOT have been taking medication. My mother, to her credit, was the first to flush my pills down the toilet and stood in solidarity with me against anything else of that sort, like other doctors who suggested I start taking medication again. I mean, seriously, medication can really fuck you up. I actually watched a short documentary recently about these two guys who were trying to come off their anxiety medications, due to suffering some SEVERE negative side-effects. The worst being that they couldn't stop fidgeting or moving EVER and needed to constantly move their bodies in response to the profound inner stress they were feeling. From what I could tell, this was a permanent ailment they had developed as a result of their medications. Seeing their predicament was downright frightening, I gotta say. As if I needed any more reason never to consider medication, that certainly sealed the deal for me even further. I'd sooner swallow cyanide pills.

How did you come into renovating this home?

Well, it just sort of happened actually. It all started when I began to clear away years of accumulated junk from our back deck. Afterwards I moved on to the garage, then the basement, then the shed, then other parts of the house. We also used to have this really old and gross looking concrete pathway that had been blighting our property for years. That is, until I ordered a jackhammer off Amazon and went to work removing it. It took a couple weeks, but, by the end of it, I'd gotten rid of all of it. There was so much busted up concrete to remove during the process of it, that it basically made a little mountain by the time I was done. And, even in that, I had to move and dispose of all of it by hand. I'll tell you, it gave me quite the workout. We were in the process of just about to sell our old car at the time (which made it perfect as a bit of a temporary garbage mobile), so I'd load up the concrete in it and then we'd take it to a nearby depot where we could just drop it off for free. We must've made like 40-50 runs alone just getting rid of all that concrete. Load it in, load it out, load it in, load it out. Like I said, quite the workout. My father was, of course, in no shape to help me when it came to this sort of thing, so I just had to manage it on my own. Although, when it came to actually driving to this place, that's where my father could lend me a hand since, even with his condition, he could still at least drive back then.

Once that was done, I then jackhammered up our old driveway, since thanks to removing the concrete, we could now actually hire a team to replace it. In preparation of this, I thought I might as well take the initiative and get the old one busted up and cleared away before they came. This wasn't exactly necessary, but I just thought I might as well do it anyway. In the end, it did somewhat cut down on the costs, so it wasn't a total waste of time.

After that was done, I painted our fence, then the deck after cleaning/power washing it, I dug out a perimeter for some new patio stones we intend to put down in the spring, and I also painted the basement floor, cement parged some messed up parts of the basement wall (although I'll admit I could've done a better job on that), then painted it as well.

Back in early January of this year, me and my brother re-tiled the kitchen floor when he came to visit us, so that was something of this vein that happened fairly recently. As a matter of fact, he'll be here tomorrow so we can do some finishing touches, since he didn't have enough time to get the whole thing done back in January. My brother's the real handyman, to be honest. He's done 10 times the amount of this sort of stuff, when compared to myself. He's taught me a couple things, but even then, I can be pretty hopeless. For instance, I totally fucked up grouting the tiles to the point where my brother's going to have take care of it, since I'd rather not screw it up again and we don't really have the time to spare anyway.

Anyway, yeah. It's the sort of thing that helps me stay busy, but it's a very fleeting affair. By and large, I'm really only good for grunt work. I couldn't cut a board to save my life, to be honest. I really can only do the "easy" stuff. Anything that requires more of a skilled touch and I'm pretty much useless. That's why I really can't count on this stuff for much longer. Pretty soon all the easy stuff will be done, leaving only the remaining harder stuff, that I'm in no way qualified for doing.

Have you stopped dating all together? Do you fear only your actions towards a future partner?

Umm, well. Not exactly. I've actually never dated anyone in my entire life. I've never once approached or been in a relationship with anyone else. I haven't spoken to anyone beyond my own family, at least not by myself, for nearly 15 years. I fell out of normal circulation in school near the beginning of grade 6 and, even before that, I was always highly withdrawn. People tried to befriend me, but I was too anxious to reciprocate, on account of not knowing what to say to them. Girls and relationships just never came up. I was too busy grappling with my anxiety and trying to muddle my way through seeing therapists and having to attend school in a specialized fashion. By the end of my first year of high school however, I dropped out of formal education altogether and everything else as well. Nearly 15 years later locked away at home since and here I am.

I've never been physically intimate with anyone either. Not even kissing or holding hands or, heck, even hugging. I mean, yeah, I've hugged my mom on occasion, but that's different. Romance and physical affection is unknown to me and I have no idea what it must be like. Not that I really put much emphasis on those things anyway, but it is what it is. Even if I never experience any of it, that's fine. I've long come to terms with that sort of thing.

A thought crossed my mind, does she even know how? Does she know what she's "supposed" to say?

Yeah, I'll admit that's where I can be a bit unfair. I know I can't expect her to be a mind reader, but still. I just wish that she could more often say the sort of stuff that would really soothe the way I feel. If I have to tell her what to say, it mostly loses all of its meaning. Heck, I've also tried to coach her a bit when it comes to this sort of thing and somehow it just never seems to make a difference. After enough times of this I just feel like....I don't know. She'd just have a better grasp on what it is I want to hear, I guess? But sadly, most of the time, she just doesn't. That's not to say she doesn't understand me, but just that she always prefers wording things her own way. We agree on many things and can talk about a lot with each other, but, again, she always seems intent on giving me an "answer" when I'm distressed, even though I'd really she'd rather just listen and acknowledge the broad strokes of what's bothering me without trying to say what it is I should do, or to otherwise segue into what's bothering her instead. Something she unfortunately does A LOT of, I'm afraid.

I live alone & think aloud to fill the space

As do I. Whenever my mother isn't around, I tend to think out loud a lot. It sort of gives the illusion that someone might be hearing me somewhere, somehow. There's a certain amount of catharsis that comes with it, although I'm not sure why, since I'm simply talking to an empty room, with no one around to register it save for myself. I guess it just feels nice to talk, even if no one is there to respond. Just making conversation with my own mind, trying to sort out all my thoughts.

I mean she gets to decompress in way you cannot- maybe your great listening skills give her more room to breathe while you aren't given the same space.

Maybe. I'm not sure. To be honest though, I think you're right. I often listen to my mother go on and on about all the usual stuff, and I always make sure to stay involved reciprocating/responding where appropriate. By contrast, my mother doesn't do as good a job as this for me. And that sucks, but I realize she can only do as much as she's able to. There are a lot of other mothers who wouldn't even do that much or bother to listen to me at all, so I'll take what I can get. At least she's not abusive or cruel, or otherwise totally incapable of understanding me. At the same time, she dumps on me A LOT. Like basically every day and I'm just expected to stand there and listen to her. It's very tiresome to the point I lose sight of the point of even talking to begin with. I just drift in and out of my room and just say "Uh, huh. Okay.", before then just shutting the door and sitting out yet another dumping session. So yeah, I don't know. There's, of course, some nuance to it all. It's not just this or it's that, but it's still tiresome. Like I said, my mother's barely holding on herself these days. We're like two people out at sea barely able to keep from drowning. It's a pretty morbid situation when two people are both this lost in life and are unable to receive the help they need.

but their thing was they wouldn't just sit around & just exist anymore because the mental anguish it was causing was debilitating

Yeah. My problem, I think, is just how much this enduring and "surviving" of my situation has become a routine of its own. It would be nice if I could get a sudden jolt of some sort to shake me loose from all this, but the real horror is realizing that this might never come. How the pain, while sharp, has almost taken the form of an old leather jacket. Something that's taken to the shape of your form and bears its own odd sense of familiarity, even dubious comfort. I've just gotten used to it, basically. Far too used to it. So much so, that I've become almost doubly trapped within it. Almost like the jacket itself were lined with kryptonite, zapping my energy and lulling me into a kind of zombie like slumber. Enslaved to my own weak inertia. Keeping myself locked to the same old nowhere, having to experience all the many frustrations and sense of strong mutedness that comes with it.

 

[NodusTollens]

I don't have it within me to play that sort of game, not one bit, which leaves me both unable and unwilling to avail myself of these sorts of services

Hey- that's fair, no need to convince me. :) I've spoke with a few therapists & counsellors as well- I understand the game of MH support roulette. Sorry to hear about all the things you went through as a kid, I agree I don't think children should be given antidepressant either. I mean, I used Effexor as an adult & didn't like it either. My brain was fully developed by that point, I couldn't imagine those side effects in a child.

Seeing their predicament was downright frightening, I gotta say. As if I needed any more reason never to consider medication, that certainly sealed the deal for me even further. I'd sooner swallow cyanide pills.

I wouldn't doubt that many would take you up on that. What was the name of this documentary? I wish there was a better way to medicate people than the blind game that's played now. I mean honestly, if it were possible to be adequately medicated in a way that didn't make me feel like I was dead to the world- I would strongly consider it. But at this point, however- there's not nearly enough long term benefit to outweigh lasting side effects.

Anyway, yeah. It's the sort of thing that helps me stay busy, but it's a very fleeting affair. By and large, I'm really only good for grunt work. I couldn't cut a board to save my life, to be honest. I really can only do the "easy" stuff. Anything that requires more of a skilled touch and I'm pretty much useless. That's why I really can't count on this stuff for much longer. Pretty soon all the easy stuff will be done, leaving only the remaining harder stuff, that I'm in no way qualified for doing.

I wish there was a way that you'd still be able continue working on the house or least something like it. I mean, it sounded like you enjoyed it- could you be taught how to do some of the harder stuff?

I've long come to terms with that sort of thing

I guess. It's just a sad conclusion to reach, but I get it. What you went through in high school sounded intensely overwhelming, so I appreciate why you would leave. I think about all the things I could have avoided if I had the courage to walk away. I don't feel it's my place to try & convince you of anything in either direction, though it's unfortunate that you won't have the chance to date. Everyone is deserving of love.

I just wish that she could more often say the sort of stuff that would really soothe the way I feel. If I have to tell her what to say, it mostly loses all of its meaning. Heck, I've also tried to coach her a bit when it comes to this sort of thing and somehow it just never seems to make a difference. After enough times of this I just feel like....I don't know.

This is damn near the most frustrating process- I've been there. I can empathize till the cows come home. I completely agree, it feels disingenuous, but I would rather the mildly disingenuous attempt than the backhand "this is the way I've always done it." I think you deserve more than that, your emotions are valid too.

It sort of gives the illusion that someone might be hearing me somewhere, somehow. There's a certain amount of catharsis that comes with it, although I'm not sure why, since I'm simply talking to an empty room

That's exactly it. I don't feel like I'm free to speak my mind, so I turn to SS. But there are things I just wish I could say aloud but thin walls get in the way (nosy neighbors). Couple that with internet censorship & I feel like I have a lot to say & no outlet. Though, just the same- with nosy neighbors I feel trapped in my mind.

At least she's not abusive or cruel, or otherwise totally incapable of understanding me. At the same time, she dumps on me A LOT. Like basically every day and I'm just expected to stand there and listen to her.

"At least" doesn't give you the space to acknowledge what you're going through. I understand it helps offer perspective but you it's still your reality. It's okay to ask for what you want & if not, could you create boundaries with your mom. It's fair for her to consistently dump on you without being an equal support for you when she it able.

We're like two people out at sea barely able to keep from drowning. It's a pretty morbid situation when two people are both this lost in life and are unable to receive the help they need.

This is a poetic way of looking at it- but are you really okay with sinking together?

My problem, I think, is just how much this enduring and "surviving" of my situation has become a routine of its own. It would be nice if I could get a sudden jolt of some sort to shake me loose from all this,

That's fair, though it just sounds like a hard way to live. I, myself, struggle with the aspects of surviving that breed loneliness. Even SS can't fill that void for me- I feel like I'm losing my mind now, don't know how you do it.

 

[Imaginos]

My brain was fully developed by that point, I couldn't imagine those side effects in a child.

Yeah, definitely. For me, I developed noticeable hand tremors when I was on medication and, aside from them doing nothing for stemming my feelings of anxiety, it's impossible to know just how much they might have screwed me up in more long term ways, such as worsening my mental health or limiting my development in other ways. At first, my mother was the one that agreed to have me on medication (my father could've cared less about any of it and, outside of school/therapist meetings, stayed totally uninvolved and indifferent to my life), but it was also due to her that I got off them as soon as I did. People make mistakes and at least she realized hers pretty quickly. Without my father's involvement, my mother was on her own in trying to help me, as she was also basically on her own in trying to raise me and my brother.

My father, by contrast, went to his job and brought home a pay check. That's it. My father was around in a physical sense, but totally absent/toxic in an emotional one. He secretly hated being a father/husband and merely put up with it, the way one puts up with some inconvenient annoyance they're stuck having to deal with. My mother did the best she could under the circumstances and I respect/appreciate her efforts in this regard. My father, on the other hand, smacked me and my brother across the head when we were kids as a form of punishment. And man, did he hit hard. More than the pain, it's the numbness that would set in afterwards that I remember the most. For all I know, him striking my head like that scrambled my fucking brains and could be the reason why I am the way I am. It'd be fittingly tragic if that were the case somehow, but I feel like I'll never know one way or the other. My mother fought like hell to get him to stop and, fortunately, by mid grade school or so, he finally did.

What was the name of this documentary?

"Psych Pills Destroying Americans | Short Doc". It's available to watch on YouTube.

could you be taught how to do some of the harder stuff?

Nah, I don't think so. My brother just doesn't have the time. I'm also not much of a self-learner, so that leaves me with zero other options available. I'm a very high-strung individual who's often brought down by the smallest of mistakes, whether they be real ones or self-perceived ones. And the more I make, the more high-strung I get, which means more mistakes, and so on and so on, in a debilitating feedback loop of stress. If it gets bad enough, I just shutdown completely. This isn't very conducive to picking up or acquiring additional skills. The most minor of unforeseen obstacles often tend to inundate me with stress. Anything that I don't see coming, and that puts me under pressure, just totally wrecks the shit out of me. Unless someone is showing me what to do every step of the way, I'm totally hopeless.

This is exactly why I could never return to education, nor could I ever hope to pick up a trade of some kind. Stress destroys my ability to think clearly, yet I find myself stressed so easily. The amount of extra time and assistance I require to pick things up simply isn't available to anyone in the outside world. Not unless you'd have the money to afford it, that is. Even then, it'd only be a crutch. Who's to say I could ever overcome this, even with all the money in the world at my disposal.

I don't feel it's my place to try & convince you of anything in either direction, though it's unfortunate that you won't have the chance to date. Everyone is deserving of love.

It's most unfortunate, indeed. It feels a bit surreal to think how matters such as love and relationships, inarguably core pillars of the human experience, will forever be out of my reach. Perhaps that's for the best, but, either way, I'm still human. I still painfully feel the absence of these things. How could I not? Hell, even 13 year olds know what it's like to kiss someone, or hold the hand of someone that likes them. Where I'm sitting, I'm basically a third of the way through my life at this point and am somehow more ignorant in this realm of human experience, than a mere child is.

Well, whatever. It goes to show how much mental illness, and other neurological impairments (such as autism), can utterly destroy a person's life forever and render concepts like sex or love more akin to fantasy level constructs like unicorns and fairies, than anything actually real. Most would rather die immediately, even painfully, than suffer a fate like mine. And yet I've been forced to live it. From the very day I was born, I've been forced to live it. I don't know if this is a sign of strength or not, but it's still a very sad and miserable fate all the same. If I were inclined to believe that there must be a reason for my torment, then I'd firmly say I must be in hell. I was tossed to the devil as an offering and now I suffer in this realm of endless torment for no other reason than I was just unlucky.

I think you deserve more than that, your emotions are valid too.

Well, thank you. I appreciate you saying so.

Though, just the same- with nosy neighbors I feel trapped in my mind.

Sorry to hear that. Fortunately for ourselves, our neighbors couldn't be any less aware of the goings on in our house. We could be in the process of dying, and screaming bloody murder for some kind of help, and no one would hear or care. That's about the state of things around here. Everybody minds their own business, no matter what.

It's okay to ask for what you want & if not, could you create boundaries with your mom. It's fair for her to consistently dump on you without being an equal support for you when she it able.

Yeah, that would definitely be nice. The idea of boundaries however is seen as "controlling" by her. It's ridiculous of course, since if anyone's guilty of being controlling in this instance, it's her. She sees it as restricting her ability to speak, when it's really just about restricting her ability to dump on me when I'm already long tapped out from hearing her do so.

Heck, my brother had this problem with her recently, in regards to her basically calling him up just to dump on him. For the record though, my brother hasn't experienced 1-1000th the amount of dumping I have. He probably could do with listening to her more, but his threshold for this sort of thing is basically nil. I mean, yeah, he's busy and he has a hundred things on his plate (as per usual), but he dismisses her pretty quickly and regularly, even when he has time to actually listen for a change and instead chooses not to. Maybe if he didn't do that so often, she wouldn't feel such a need to use me as her constant back-up, but I digress. My brother is trying to set some pretty firm boundaries with my mother and, as far as she's concerned, she sees it as him trying to put her in a box and censor/control her. She feels she's entitled to this sort of thing from us and that we should both simply put up with dumping. When we say we can't and start to put up boundaries, suddenly we're both being "controlling" and "abusive". It's a very tiring exercise, I have to tell you. As it stands, for me, when I shut the door to my room, that's my form of a very literal boundary. And, my mother, to her credit, tends to respect that. Of course, the moment I step out, she gets right back to dumping again, almost as if she were a frozen film that suddenly became unpaused.

Like myself, my mother's in pain and needs help. The source of her dumping ultimately comes back to this. The trouble is, that we're both stuck in our own predicaments. Neither of us can actually help the other. I am relieved that, lately, my mother has started reaching out to talk to other people, beyond just dumping on me. Like my uncle and a couple others. Even in spite of this though, she still tends to dump on me, which sucks. I'm just thankful I have my room as a barrier. Otherwise, I'd probably be crawling up the walls and going even more bonkers.

but are you really okay with sinking together?

No, definitely not. It's agony. But, what else can we do? There's no choice for us, but to endure. Short of winning the lottery, there just doesn't seem to be a way out of this. Money may not guarantee someone happiness, but it does guarantee them freedom. The freedom to go wherever they want and to avail themselves of whatever services might help. Without that sort of freedom, we remain imprisoned where we are. I feel like, in this sense, everyone besides the rich are second class citizens. Lack of financial freedom is something that can be as cold and immobilizing as the harshest of chains. Everyone can, and should, be taken care of. It's an economic injustice that they aren't.

Even SS can't fill that void for me- I feel like I'm losing my mind now, don't know how you do it.

I know what you mean. There's a tangible distance between these things for me. Whether it's SS, or anywhere else, nothing can fill this bottomless hole inside myself. Only in the most partial sense imaginable, and barely even at that. Everyday I get up, I strongly feel as if I can't take this anymore, but then I'm always faced with the sheer impossibility of the alternative. I'm tired of living, but I'm too scared of dying. Note that I say dying, and not death. The process of dying is a frightening one and, sadly, I'm still too gutless to face it, even though that lack of nerve leaves me trapped experiencing my dismal life. It's a real rock and hard place type situation.

 

[NodusTollens]

my mother was on her own in trying to help me, as she was also basically on her own in trying to raise me and my brother.

My mother did the best she could under the circumstances and I respect/appreciate her efforts in this regard. My father, on the other hand, smacked me and my brother across the head when we were kids as a form of punishment.

It's obviously you care about your mother & what she was able to do for you & your brother- how she protected you. I guess, I worry that you feel indebted to her. I mean she's your mom, but you don't owe her to the point of your own personal detriment.

"Psych Pills Destroying Americans | Short Doc". It's available to watch on YouTube.

Thank you.

I'm a very high-strung individual who's often brought down by the smallest of mistakes, whether they be real ones or self-perceived ones. And the more I make, the more high-strung I get, which means more mistakes, and so on and so on, in a debilitating feedback loop of stress. If it gets bad enough, I just shutdown completely.

Me too actually. I can appreciate the difficulties surrounding being high-strung & sensitive. Everything takes longer & simple things become an emotional process that was never intended.

I found it limits what I'm able to do in regards to hobbies, & I eventually had to just do something- anything. Whatever I was thinking about doing I would start & tackle it in phases (though I'd berate myself along the way). It was the only way to start because days would pass & I wouldn't even know what I did. Realizing after the fact that I did little more than survive.

Stress destroys my ability to think clearly, yet I find myself stressed so easily. The amount of extra time and assistance I require to pick things up simply isn't available to anyone in the outside world.

Cheers to that. So does that mean you don't try anything new because of your stress? When stress pops up in your life, how do you manage it?

If I were inclined to believe that there must be a reason for my torment, then I'd firmly say I must be in hell. I was tossed to the devil as an offering and now I suffer in this realm of endless torment for no other reason than I was just unlucky.

Yeah, it feels like that most days. Wish there was a way of of this for you- something to break up the monotony.

We could be in the process of dying, and screaming bloody murder for some kind of help, and no one would hear or care.

That's the kind of privacy I dream about! I like people, don't get me wrong- I just want my home to feel like my safe space & I haven't never had that. Sometimes I wonder if I could find that for myself if I'd truly be able to heal or if it the isolation would send me over the edge.

The idea of boundaries however is seen as "controlling" by her. It's ridiculous of course, since if anyone's guilty of being controlling in this instance, it's her. She sees it as restricting her ability to speak, when it's really just about restricting her ability to dump on me when I'm already long tapped out from hearing her do so.

This sounds manipulative on her part, setting boundaries that are healthy for both parties is not control.

My brother is trying to set some pretty firm boundaries with my mother and, as far as she's concerned, she sees it as him trying to put her in a box and censor/control her. She feels she's entitled to this sort of thing from us and that we should both simply put up with dumping. When we say we can't and start to put up boundaries, suddenly we're both being "controlling" and "abusive".

I appreciate what your brother is trying to do. Despite your mother pushing back. She knows what she can get away with, so she know how far to push it. Calling boundaries abusive/controlling absolves her from actually having to try.

As it stands, for me, when I shut the door to my room, that's my form of a very literal boundary. And, my mother, to her credit, tends to respect that.

It's sounds like she's giving you the minimum she can get away with. Your brother gave her "harsher" boundaries & no longer contacts her regularly. I wouldn't be surprised if your space in your room is the least she can give you to appease you so that you'll remain her dumping ground & not set harsher boundaries. She may mean no harm, for her it's probably a sense of sell preservation.

The trouble is, that we're both stuck in our own predicaments. Neither of us can actually help the other.

This is where you'll have to decide what you want to do. I mean you could continue with her as things are or make a choice to change something. I don't know what would work for you, but I moved out, had to. Lest she would have killed me- my anger & ideation were increasing & I would have CTB just to get away from her.

I feel like, in this sense, everyone besides the rich are second class citizens. Lack of financial freedom is something that can be as cold and immobilizing as the harshest of chains. Everyone can, and should, be taken care of. It's an economic injustice that they aren't.

I agree. MH services are damn near impossible to access consistently when you're not able to pay for privatized services. That's why we end up on year long wait lists. Would you consider any "drop-in" counselling services? (It's COVID, so it probably more accurately over-the-phone counselling) Maybe someone for you yourself or your mother to vent to? I'm just thinking about other options that don't involve you being everything for her while receiving little it return.

It's a real rock and hard place type situation.

I hope it doesn't have to be for long. You definitely deserve something for yourself in this life. :)

 

[Imaginos]

I mean she's your mom, but you don't owe her to the point of your own personal detriment.

I understand what you mean and, I'll admit, that I've somewhat fallen guilty of this. Outside of everything else, the only thing I truly feel like I owe her is to keep on remembering what she's been through. It's hard to balance that against my own feelings sometimes, but I try my best to keep the record straight for everyone involved. My mother has her faults, but she's not the bad guy. She's just lonely and can't help spilling out over the side to anyone who will listen. Unfortunately, that someone is usually me.

So does that mean you don't try anything new because of your stress? When stress pops up in your life, how do you manage it?

I don't know. Count to ten? Start taking deep breaths? That sort of stuff, basically. At home, it's all somewhat manageable, but anywhere else? I'd never want to find out. Without something or someone there to help me along, there's no considering anything otherwise for myself. And the consequence of that is staying where I'm at.

Wish there was a way of of this for you- something to break up the monotony.

Yeah. You and me both. It's a persistently stubborn shame that society provides no time/resources for those who find themselves this lost in life. And the message to us is always clear. Good or bad, you're on your own. You either save yourself, or you don't This is why without meaningful outside support, it's guaranteed for someone such as myself to find themselves trapped in a living oblivion. According to society, those who are capable of swimming; should do so, while those who are not; should simply hurry up and sink. Only the former are seen as worth paying attention to by most people, while the latter are either ignored or dismissed as having probably deserved their fates. For every person who might learn to swim, ten more sink. Everybody praises the one who swims, but what about the ten who sunk? Why wasn't there someone there to help them? Is a society worth any real value at all, if it creates such lopsided ratios?

Sometimes I wonder if I could find that for myself if I'd truly be able to heal or if it the isolation would send me over the edge.

Well, I know where I sit on that one. Isolation was therapeutic at first, but, after many years lost within its abyssal depths, it became miasmic and debilitating instead. Like with everything, there's a balance. Too much of anything becomes poisonous. However, isolation is the only environment I can acclimate myself to, even though it brings me its own unique discomfort.

This sounds manipulative on her part, setting boundaries that are healthy for both parties is not control.

A little bit, yes. It can be said though that people in general have a tendency to twist things in such a way that places them in a more favorable light, or as the wronged party. To a certain extent, this is just human nature. My mother could certainly do with stepping outside of herself in this regard, but, even if she doesn't, that doesn't make her a knowingly manipulative person. Like I said, she's just....desperate. Like myself, she's alone and wounded and feels like no one cares. If only we had more resources at our disposal, I firmly believe she wouldn't feel so desperate and have to go on deluding herself like this.

She knows what she can get away with, so she know how far to push it. Calling boundaries abusive/controlling absolves her from actually having to try.

Yeah, that's probably true. I've assumed the same myself, as a matter of fact. If she were too dogged in her dumping on me, then she knows she'd probably lose my ear for good. At the same time, I don't think it's as cynical as that. I believe she does try to respect the boundary in a sincere way. And, of course, there's much that can't be avoided talking about. Like day to day life, or sometimes my father's condition. It's just that these things usually lead to another dumping session.

Your brother gave her "harsher" boundaries & no longer contacts her regularly.

Well, to be far, my brother's pretty absent minded. Even if my mother weren't like this, my brother would probably be just as uncommunicative, due to his own constant busyness/aloof forgetfulness. I mean, yeah, my brother and my mother can be on the outs sometimes, but that doesn't mean they still don't talk. It's just that now my brother's more quick to shut out my mother's dumping, especially when they're talking over the phone.

She may mean no harm, for her it's probably a sense of sell preservation.

Indeed. And, like I said, I sympathize with her. It's a shitty situation after all. I'm not perfect and neither is she. She has her faults, and so do I. For all I know if someone spent enough time with me, they might even deem me as someone toxic and horrible. Assuming I actually did know anyone, that is. My mother's scared and lost in the dark, just like me. I just wish someone with a lantern would come to lead us out of it.

I mean you could continue with her as things are or make a choice to change something. I don't know what would work for you, but I moved out, had to. Lest she would have killed me- my anger & ideation were increasing & I would have CTB just to get away from her.

Sorry to hear about the problems with your own mother, but I could never do that. Nor would I want to, frankly. My mother might be a bit crazy, and even selfish, but she loves me more than anything else. I mean, yeah, she can get carried away with going on about her problems, but she'd defend me to her dying breath. As long as she's around, I can feel safe. Hers is the shield which guards against the horrors of the outside world. And this house is mine, just as much as it is hers. Nowhere else could I feel as safe as I do here. Nowhere. As flustering as my mother can be sometimes, she will never betray me. Nothing will ever be more certain to me than that. Trust of this nature is an extremely rare thing to have in this world. I suppose, in some sense, it's worth a little dumping.

Maybe someone for you yourself or your mother to vent to? I'm just thinking about other options that don't involve you being everything for her while receiving little it return.

Yeah, SS is about the best I can do in this regard. For my mother, I'm happy to say that's she's taken steps in this direction as well. She's began talking with my uncle regularly and has people of her own whom she's now beginning to stay in regular contact with via e-mail. If this continues, and perhaps manages to grow, she might very well be able to balance her need to dump across a healthy amount of other people. I can only hope. As it stands, it'll probably be a while before I feel like I can stand listening to my mother dump again. In the interim, perhaps she can manage with these other people and maybe things can go for the better from there.

You definitely deserve something for yourself in this life.

We all do. You, me, and my mother too. I just wish we all somehow knew a roadmap to get there. Sadly, it's all about muddying around lost and hoping for the best. Feeling around in the dark for a path forward.

 

[NodusTollens]

My mother has her faults, but she's not the bad guy. She's just lonely and can't help spilling out over the side to anyone who will listen. Unfortunately, that someone is usually me.

Well it sounds like you've accepted current situation, so by all means ignore me. I think I was heated because of my own feelings towards my mother. I hope it didn't come across as pushy.

At home, it's all somewhat manageable, but anywhere else? I'd never want to find out. Without something or someone there to help me along, there's no considering anything otherwise for myself. And the consequence of that is staying where I'm at.

This I can definitely understand. Living "alone" helps with this, that I can agree with. Does your mom help when you're triggered? I find certain aspects of living alone detrimental when I'm triggered. Having a secondary person around that I trust really helps bring me back to reality.

It's a persistently stubborn shame that society provides no time/resources for those who find themselves this lost in life. And the message to us is always clear. Good or bad, you're on your own. You either save yourself, or you don't This is why without meaningful outside support, it's guaranteed for someone such as myself to find themselves trapped in a living oblivion

I agree, it makes it difficult to press on in life. Hmm, I wonder what would happen if your mother actually sought counseling. I mean, there's no guarantee that anything free & public exists, but I wonder what that would do for her relationships. I would hate for people to associate her dumping on them every time they see her name on their phone (speaking from experience).

Everybody praises the one who swims, but what about the ten who sunk? Why wasn't there someone there to help them? Is a society worth any real value at all, if it creates such lopsided ratios?

Exactly. Beaten into submission- or social conformity.

However, isolation is the only environment I can acclimate myself to, even though it brings me its own unique discomfort.

I relate to this. I'm not sure how I feel about it personally. It's been beneficial during the pandemic, I'll admit.

If only we had more resources at our disposal, I firmly believe she wouldn't feel so desperate and have to go on deluding herself like this

I hear that. If you could change it, what would you like to see differently? I think about it sometimes, making changes in MH system, with the homeless population having a special place in my heart.

I believe she does try to respect the boundary in a sincere way. And, of course, there's much that can't be avoided talking about. Like day to day life, or sometimes my father's condition. It's just that these things usually lead to another dumping session.

Okay, well as long as you're able to see the effort that she's putting in. It's a start that she's trying to give you some space, here's hoping one day you can get some more.

I mean, yeah, my brother and my mother can be on the outs sometimes, but that doesn't mean they still don't talk. It's just that now my brother's more quick to shut out my mother's dumping, especially when they're talking over the phone.

My apologies, I didn't mean to imply they weren't friendly, just that he'd drawn a clearer line in the sand. It sounds like he had to set harsher boundaries for himself.

My mother's scared and lost in the dark, just like me. I just wish someone with a lantern would come to lead us out of it

Trust of this nature is an extremely rare thing to have in this world. I suppose, in some sense, it's worth a little dumping

I hope you're able to think of something to support yourselves because you're right, that level of trust is hard to come by. It's obvious that you care, it's just so hard to help someone when our options are limited.

As it stands, it'll probably be a while before I feel like I can stand listening to my mother dump again. In the interim, perhaps she can manage with these other people and maybe things can go for the better from there

I've got my fingers crossed for you. Hopefully some space & some SS will help you feel better.

 

[Imaginos]

I think I was heated because of my own feelings towards my mother. I hope it didn't come across as pushy.

No worries, you didn't. If anything, I feel bad for perhaps making the situation out to be worse than it actually is. It's a tough sort of thing to describe in some sense, given the nuance of it. My mother's main hang-up is definitely her excessive dumping at times, but in all others ways she's a very kind, compassionate and understanding person. It just sucks that neither of us have that many other, or any, people to talk to besides each other.

Does your mom help when you're triggered? I find certain aspects of living alone detrimental when I'm triggered. Having a secondary person around that I trust really helps bring me back to reality.

Oh, yeah. She's definitely come to my rescue a few times as far as this is concerned. As an example, I was in the middle of trying to install a water cooler on my GPU last year and, given the somewhat finicky nature of such a task, I started to lose my cool a bit (actually a lot). It's only thanks to her that I managed to recenter myself. Otherwise, I probably would've adopted the fetal position and wept in a pool of my own self-loathing. With her around, we were able to talk it out and she actually sat with me for hours while I continued to work on it and could manage to feel comfortable again. There was another time while I was painting the basement wall and I started to get really stressed out of the blue, but, again, she reassured me there was no pressure and I could come back to it later when I was ready.

If I were alone, I'd probably end up hurting myself somehow. I know that when I'm angry sometimes I kick the wall with my foot or slam my palms on the counter just to try and get the tension and frustration out of me. To tell you the truth, it can actually be pretty cathartic. I can't do it when my mother's around though, since it really upsets her on account of how she's convinced I might break something that can't be fixed. I think it also scares her on some level, but I really don't know why. I've never hurt anyone, or broken anything. I mean, that's why I restrict myself to things that I know I could never break. It's not like I'm the incredible hulk here. I can't break a wall by kicking it, or slamming my palm against it. Either way, this is a very rare occurrence. If I'm ever upset and my mother's not around though, I tend to indulge in such actions, merely as a form of release. It's not particularly healthy, but it's one of the few things that brings any kind of catharsis to me.

Hmm, I wonder what would happen if your mother actually sought counseling. I mean, there's no guarantee that anything free & public exists, but I wonder what that would do for her relationships.

Well actually, she's been doing just that. It all started early last year when she began re-entering the community by attending services at various churches. At this point, she knows a couple pastors that have, here and there, been able to counsel her and give her a shoulder to lean on. She stays in touch with them as regularly as she can and, I have to say, I'm very relieved that she's managed to broaden her horizons in this respect. At least one of us managed to.

I would hate for people to associate her dumping on them every time they see her name on their phone (speaking from experience).

Fortunately, I don't think that's the case. She and my uncle have actually started talking on a highly regular basis, after years of passive estrangement from each other, and it seems like the both of them help each other out a lot. My uncle is a bit like my mom in the sense that, like us, he doesn't have very many people to talk to. It seems they're able to help each other by listening and offering support for each other's woes.

If you could change it, what would you like to see differently? I think about it sometimes, making changes in MH system, with the homeless population having a special place in my heart.

Too many to list, to be honest. The culture of competition and this toxic "winner takes all" mandate we're constantly suffering under needs to be abolished. Profit driven motives have no place in a civilized society and should also be done away with. Industrial society has the means to take care of everyone, so it should. It shouldn't be held captive by the ultra wealthy who lord over us with their grotesque amounts of wealth. Stymieing and suffocating out countless human lives and true beneficial progress for everyone. Unlike what the fiends at Wall St. insidiously ascribe to, greed is not good. It's murder. Plain and simple. Like everything else, MH services are just as crippled and limited by this disgusting priority on greed, where if you can't make a buck off of it, then it doesn't matter, and is thus left to rot and die.

It's a start that she's trying to give you some space, here's hoping one day you can get some more.

That really started in earnest about 5 years ago. Before that point, I didn't even have my own room. And, let me tell you, not having a space of my own was hell. Pure hell. During those days, I was utterly at the mercy of her dumping. There was literally nowhere I could go to get away from it. To be honest, I was on the verge of suffering a complete fucking nervous breakdown. I not only had to be patient, but push as hard as possible, nearly every day, for a space of my own. Given our limited resources however, this took FAR longer than it should have. Our house is small, so giving an entire room over for my own usage/privacy (mostly so as to maintain sanity) was a hard sell. My room is actually what was once our living room. To make it mine, we installed a nice thick door on it, with a lock on the knob to boot. Thinking about the past, and how things used to be, is a very painful exercise for me. Honestly, I just try and pretend as if it never happened. I really, really do. It hurts too much to do otherwise.

My apologies, I didn't mean to imply they weren't friendly, just that he'd drawn a clearer line in the sand. It sounds like he had to set harsher boundaries for himself.

Yeah, he did. My brother's up to his eyeballs in his own sea of shit. As are we all, I suppose. However, my brother's always tended to prioritize his own life in this sense. To the point that he can sometimes be a jerk about it. Like I said, in his case, he could probably do with listening to her a little more. Despite all his problems, at least he's not depressed. That's a whole other realm of suffering right there. One that my brother, lucky for him, happens to be ignorant of. He's run ragged by needing to keep up with his own life, but, even so, his spirit remains strong. When the spirit dies, everything else might as well die with it. And, of course, that's just the sort of predicament I find myself in.

I've got my fingers crossed for you. Hopefully some space & some SS will help you feel better.

Yeah, I hope so too. Some random guy over on reddit actually offered to try and be friends with me recently. I'm still deciding on whether I should get back to him, or not. Somehow, I almost don't want to. How crazy is that? On one hand, I'm lonely and would like someone to talk to, yet once someone outstretches their hand, I'm too reluctant to grab it. Instead, I just continue to do nothing and stick with what's familiar. At the end of the day, it seems like my reflex towards safety and obscurity wins out over my need to stymie my loneliness. What if it goes badly? What if I feel awkward? What if I wished I'd just stayed alone? These thoughts, and the feelings therein, will always kneecap my attempts to reach out to anyone. I have no idea how I'll ever work past them, frankly. In all likelihood, I'll probably never get back to that guy. And that's a damn shame, I guess. My mother, for one, doesn't seem to understand this. And, I suppose, I can't blame her. I keep saying how lonely I am, but the moment I might alleviate that, I recoil and say that I don't want it. To her, and to most people I'd imagine, I'm basically a walking contradiction in this regard. It sucks to be so divided, in so many different and debilitating ways.

 

[NodusTollens]

It just sucks that neither of us have that many other, or any, people to talk to besides each other.

Well if you ever want to PM me, I'm always down to chat.

With her around, we were able to talk it out and she actually sat with me for hours while I continued to work on it and could manage to feel comfortable again.

That's great- I'm glad you two have that going for yourself. When viewed through my lens, that's a pipe dream. My mother always made it worse. Oops.

If I were alone, I'd probably end up hurting myself somehow. I know that when I'm angry sometimes I kick the wall with my foot or slam my palms on the counter just to try and get the tension and frustration out of me. To tell you the truth, it can actually be pretty cathartic.

I tend to indulge in such actions, merely as a form of release. It's not particularly healthy, but it's one of the few things that brings any kind of catharsis to me.

Now that, I agree with. Physically hitting something when you're wound up is cathartic AF. And it isn't too far off from the norm for a lot of people. Especially since you mentioned it doesn't happen too often. I, myself, tend to aim for door frames if the urge to punch something arises- less likely to go through drywall. Ever consider getting a small punching bag or something of the like?

At this point, she knows a couple pastors that have, here and there, been able to counsel her and give her a shoulder to lean on. She stays in touch with them as regularly as she can and, I have to say, I'm very relieved that she's managed to broaden her horizons in this respect. At least one of us managed to.

Really, that's great, I couldn't be happier for her. It's a process to rebuild relationships & create a circle of support. Though... what about you? :( I would hate to see you emotionally spent & stuck in limbo. How do you feel about meet up groups? I'll be honest, I'm shy- so they still freak me out, but it was an option that was suggested to me way back when.

Fortunately, I don't think that's the case. She and my uncle have actually started talking on a highly regular basis, after years of passive estrangement from each other, and it seems like the both of them help each other out a lot.

That's good for them, it's so easy for people to grow apart these days.

Profit driven motives have no place in a civilized society and should also be done away with.

Plain and simple. Like everything else, MH services are just as crippled and limited by this disgusting priority on greed, where if you can't make a buck off of it, then it doesn't matter, and is thus left to rot and die.

Couldn't have said it better myself. We spend so much time waiting in the system for change that never lasts.

Thinking about the past, and how things used to be, is a very painful exercise for me. Honestly, I just try and pretend as if it never happened. I really, really do. It hurts too much to do otherwise.

Sorry, I didn't mean to dredge up the past. I'm glad you were able to create your own space. :) Steps in the right direction.

Despite all his problems, at least he's not depressed. That's a whole other realm of suffering right there. One that my brother, lucky for him, happens to be ignorant of. He's run ragged by needing to keep up with his own life, but, even so, his spirit remains strong. When the spirit dies, everything else might as well die with it. And, of course, that's just the sort of predicament I find myself in

Correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like your brother focused on creating his own path, allowing whomever to "visit" but ultimately he's in charge. Does that leave space for your guys to talk? :T I struggle with this feeling too, feeling like your soul's died. When did it feel this happened to you? I think we does many deaths in our lifetime, I remember something changed in me when I was 18, then again at 24. From these points, I noticed changes in how I approached the world.

Somehow, I almost don't want to. How crazy is that? On one hand, I'm lonely and would like someone to talk to, yet once someone outstretches their hand, I'm too reluctant to grab it.

That sounds like a reasonable response to an acquaintance reaching out, at least I would say. I mean, you've taken some time to get to know each other a bit, but trust takes time. So if eventual friendship is what you're looking for, then maybe starting slow is an option for you. There's no need to divulge anything you don't want to, right?

At the end of the day, it seems like my reflex towards safety and obscurity wins out over my need to stymie my loneliness. What if it goes badly? What if I feel awkward? What if I wished I'd just stayed alone? These thoughts, and the feelings therein, will always kneecap my attempts to reach out to anyone.

Understandable, we all want to feel safe in our surroundings. Bringing new people in, in whichever form will always change things- I mean, anyone we meet has the ability to alter our values, goals, perspective, etc. I guess it depends on how much of yourself you're willing to give to a new friendship & how much discomfort you can tolerate while you do so.

To her, and to most people I'd imagine, I'm basically a walking contradiction in this regard. It sucks to be so divided, in so many different and debilitating ways.

I hear what you're saying, though I believe humans themselves are contradictions. We're really only striving to please our egos & appease our bodily functions. Our thoughts & feelings, values, etc., change so often that it's hard to write someone off as just being a contradiction.

 

[Imaginos]

Well if you ever want to PM me, I'm always down to chat.

Thanks, I appreciate that. My ability to initiate contact is woeful however. I just never know what to say. It never seems like a good time to step out of my comfort zone, even for as something as simple sending a PM and starting up a conversation. I mean, I'm sort of doing that now, but only because you've been gracious enough to allow me talk your ear off, for a lack of a better way to describe it. Hope I'm not the one dumping on you now.

When viewed through my lens, that's a pipe dream. My mother always made it worse.

Yeah, that sucks. Most of my relatives are sort of like that. Very cold and judgey. Explains why I haven't talked to any of them in nearly 15 years. My uncle is one of the only exceptions, but, I'll admit, that I haven't personally seen or spoken with him since I was a kid. He lives a hard life of his own. Somehow I always knew I'd end up like him someday. Being around him, even when I was quite young, always subtly depressed/panicked me in that sense. Truth be told, I'm now way worse off than he ever was. In his case, he struggled with alcoholism for decades and abuse from my grandfather, but he still managed to make a life for himself somehow, unlike myself. If my brother ever has a kid, I'd be mortified if he fell down a similar hole like me. I don't know what my own uncle must think, but how on earth can he connect in his head the young kid I used to be to the sad, suicidal sack of shit I am now. If it were me in his position, the surrealness of it all would be staggering.

I, myself, tend to aim for door frames if the urge to punch something arises- less likely to go through drywall. Ever consider getting a small punching bag or something of the like?

Yeah, our walls are rock hard plaster. You'd need a sledgehammer to get through them. My weak human limbs stand no chance by comparison. There was a time when I was quite eager to get a punching bag, but it didn't pan out. There's nowhere to hang one, as I soon discovered, so I realized I'd need to get one of those free standing ones instead. I always thought those were complete junk though, so I never bothered to. Thinking on it now however, perhaps I should. Better than potentially breaking my foot against the wall, or whatever.

Though... what about you? :( I would hate to see you emotionally spent & stuck in limbo. How do you feel about meet up groups? I'll be honest, I'm shy- so they still freak me out, but it was an option that was suggested to me way back when.

What about me? There's nothing for a guy like myself out there. Certainly not in a podunk town like this one. There's no way I'd ever attend church, since religion is fundamentally nauseating to me. My mother, however, is a very spiritual person. Not christian, just generally spiritual. I'd describe her as more new age than anything. Funny how my uncle followed the same sort of path. He was an alcoholic, but found support through AA and, like my mom, going to church.

It sucks that the only community services readily available are usually church related. General support groups just aren't really the same. I've never attended one, but it sort of seems like it wouldn't go very far, or would include religion at some point. Only in really big cities would you have other options available and, perhaps, not even then.

Sorry, I didn't mean to dredge up the past.

Enh, it dredges itself up, to be honest. I've actually gotten pretty good at subverting it. Both by putting my attention elsewhere and simply pushing it back down into my subconscious. Whatever works, basically.

Correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like your brother focused on creating his own path, allowing whomever to "visit" but ultimately he's in charge. Does that leave space for your guys to talk?

It does, but, you're right, that it's always on his terms. If he doesn't have the time to talk, no talking happens. Even in the middle of talking he can often get sidetracked looking at his phone, or having to see to some other errand of his. I'll tell you that, especially so in the past, it could be pretty frustrating trying to keep a "conversation" going with him, when only half, or just a quarter of his attention was even present. The guy's just always busy with something. It eventually got to a point where, unless he initiates contact with me, I don't bother saying anything. And, you know, that's worked well enough. Unless he can fit a conversation into his busy schedule, then I'd rather not waste my time. Still, when he actually has the time and attention to talk, I enjoy them. My brother and I have had our rough patches, but we're on good terms. I don't trust him to the same level I do my mother, but I know he tries not to intentionally be a jerk. He's just a very busy and absent minded guy who always has a hundred different things on his plate. My brother and I can bond in the brief moments that allow it, but little more than that. It's not great, but it's not horrible either. I can live with it, but it's hardly much of a substitute for someone I could really talk to beyond my mother.

When did it feel this happened to you? I think we does many deaths in our lifetime

2003, 2007, and late 2014. Those three years were noticeable seismic shifts for me. The first is when I suffered my first major breakdown due to anxiety and was taken out of normal scholastic circulation, thereby putting me onto the path of oblivion. The second is when I finally dropped out of everything for good and became a hermit. And the third is when my soul finally snapped in two, after the magnitude of my predicament painfully made itself known to me. Ever since, each new day has brought with it another small death of its own. Chronic anhedonia and depression have carved out every last piece of myself. Even if things were to suddenly and miraculously turn around as soon as tomorrow, it wouldn't matter. It's too late. It's like sending a rescue team for somebody, only for them to discover that the person died of starvation ages ago and is now a pile of bones.

So if eventual friendship is what you're looking for, then maybe starting slow is an option for you. There's no need to divulge anything you don't want to, right?

That's just it. I think that's what I want, but I really don't know. It's like the moment I'm in one place, I want to be back in the other, and vice versa.

I guess it depends on how much of yourself you're willing to give to a new friendship & how much discomfort you can tolerate while you do so.

Exactly. That right there is the core of the problem. Getting to know someone is going to be uncomfortable and anxiety inducing, but that's simply the cost one needs to pay to achieve knowing them better. The problem comes down to my unwillingness to put myself into the mix on account of being afraid of how it will turn out. The safer option is to simply do nothing and I seem to find myself utterly beholden to always taking the safer option. I don't want to find myself saddled with regret, in regards to making a mistake and being in too deep to back out. On the other hand, the minute I know the opportunity for friendship has passed, I then regret that I find myself having lost the chance. There really is no winning with me.

I hear what you're saying, though I believe humans themselves are contradictions. We're really only striving to please our egos & appease our bodily functions. Our thoughts & feelings, values, etc., change so often that it's hard to write someone off as just being a contradiction.

Well put. I agree completely. We're all more than the sum of our parts. There are many different individuals that exist inside the one. A bit like that Pixar movie "Inside Out", each emotion has a sense of its own self. One thing we might hope for or want in one state of mind, might not be what we wish for based off another. It's the price of conscious thought and, as you say, no one is beyond its effects.

There was an episode of Star Trek: TNG that actually touched on this sort of thing as well and I've always remembered it for that. It had to do with this alien artifact called a naiskos. A naiskos consisted of a large hollow body, of which the top half could be removed to reveal several smaller figurines inside, similar in shape to the original one. The aliens that made it believed that an individual was actually a community of individuals, each with their own voice, their own desires and their own view of the world. I just wanted to mention it because I feel like that applies really well to what you pointed out just now.

 

[NodusTollens]

I mean, I'm sort of doing that now, but only because you've been gracious enough to allow me talk your ear off, for a lack of a better way to describe it. Hope I'm not the one dumping on you now.

No no, that fine- I don't see it that way. Besides, I don't feel like I have too much to say these days anyways.

Very cold and judgey. Explains why I haven't talked to any of them in nearly 15 years.

Gotta love family. Mine is similar, estranged & judgemental. Ugh. It's too much.

I don't know what my own uncle must think, but how on earth can he connect in his head the young kid I used to be to the sad, suicidal sack of shit I am now. If it were me in his position, the surrealness of it all would be staggering.

I wouldn't say so, there no real way to know what he thinks unless you ask him. It'll do you no good, but cause you pain to think about what he might think about you (phew, had to read that back, aha). You had such a good relationship, how come you think he would think so negatively of you?

Thinking on it now however, perhaps I should. Better than potentially breaking my foot against the wall, or whatever.

Might be a better alternative, plus it's more fun. Could prove to be a new hobby too.

There's nothing for a guy like myself out there. Certainly not in a podunk town like this one. There's no way I'd ever attend church, since religion is fundamentally nauseating to me.

It sucks that the only community services readily available are usually church related.

I hear you, I wouldn't want to be attending church related groups either. For the essentially the same reason, organized religion couldn't feel further from the "truth" IMO. I don't hold any qualm against individual religious folk, though- so long as they don't attempt to force their religious beliefs on me.

I guess online'll have to do, but fortunately the message you received proves it works to a degree. Just slower going.

Unless he can fit a conversation into his busy schedule, then I'd rather not waste my time. Still, when he actually has the time and attention to talk, I enjoy them.

Hmm, well that's great for him, boundaries are important. Just thinking though, maybe there's room for one more. Ever thought about scheduling time to talk with him? Maybe like once every week or two.

It's too late. It's like sending a rescue team for somebody, only for them to discover that the person died of starvation ages ago and is now a pile of bones.

That's just it. I think that's what I want, but I really don't know.

The safer option is to simply do nothing and I seem to find myself utterly beholden to always taking the safer option. I don't want to find myself saddled with regret, in regards to making a mistake and being in too deep to back out

I don't know, I wouldn't go that far. If this is something you want, I'm sure there's a way you can make it happen. I mean, what about venting your feelings here on SS?

Say for example you do start up this friendship, and you share something & feel vulnerable afterwards, you could come back here & vent about it. Release any pent up thoughts or feelings about it. Could help bridge the anxiety making new friends elicits and help surpass the vulnerability hangover.
I can't speak to the content of the entire website, but the vulnerability hangover link could help. I learned about that term when I was last in therapy.

One thing we might hope for or want in one state of mind, might not be what we wish for based off another. It's the price of conscious thought and, as you say, no one is beyond its effects.

Mhmm, our thoughts change so frequently, & oftentimes we just accept them as is. I think we can work around it, problem is most people are on auto pilot. We don't have time to really explore ourselves unless we have the time & money to do so. Might be why so many people have started new hobbies during quarantine, they have the time.

The aliens that made it believed that an individual was actually a community of individuals, each with their own voice, their own desires and their own view of the world.

Reminds me of the saying, "it takes a village to raise a child." What do you think?

I didn't remember the name of the alien species, but I definitely remember that artifact (looked it up). I watched that episode in December when I rewatched TNG.

Are you a fan of ST?

 

[Imaginos]

You had such a good relationship, how come you think he would think so negatively of you?

Well, we've never really had a relationship. He saw me a couple times when I was a kid, but that's about it. I was just trying to say how, if he were to see me today, how could he ever connect those two points together, in regards to what I was then, to what I am now. If I were him, I'd find it to be profoundly depressing, but, honestly, I don't think he'd care. The thought wouldn't even occur to him, I'd imagine. If anything, he'd probably be more shocked at the fact that I've never had a girlfriend, assuming the topic came up. More than anything, I'm sure he'd simply respect that I'm doing the best I can. Be that as it may, I don't know. It's still sad to think how, even after close to 2 decades since I last saw him, this is where I ended up. Like I said, if my brother had a kid who ended up this fucked in life, that'd be just so tragic.

Just thinking though, maybe there's room for one more. Ever thought about scheduling time to talk with him? Maybe like once every week or two.

No, not really. It's nice to occasionally talk with him, but I'd rather not make it anything more than that. I operate on my own time table and, at the end of the day, mine and his are totally incompatible. I'd rather not have to work around his since, I'll admit, I don't have the patience for that. When he visits, our talks tend to happen naturally and I'd rather just keep it that way. Things work well due to the long intervals in between and that we see each other in short bursts. My brother could never be someone I actually feel 100% comfortable talking to and there will always be a certain distance between us. He's tried to email me before, but I just don't want to set that precedence of communication. Like you said, boundaries can be a good thing and I think the one we have should be maintained. I don't want to step on his toes and I don't want him stepping on mine. It's better that we just give each other as wide a berth, whenever otherwise possible,

I mean, what about venting your feelings here on SS?

Yeah, it's nice to have a place to vent. It was becoming very challenging without one, putting it mildly. I can't say I really trust this place yet, though. There's still some anxiety and hesitation attached to using it and fearing what might happen if I say the wrong thing, or that I'll forever be on the outside looking in. Hopefully the more I use it, the less that will be the case.

Say for example you do start up this friendship, and you share something & feel vulnerable afterwards, you could come back here & vent about it. Release any pent up thoughts or feelings about it. Could help bridge the anxiety making new friends elicits and help surpass the vulnerability hangover.

Never heard of that term before either. Interesting. But yeah, that describes it well. I can't handle the hangover, so I avoid it at all costs. It leads to me never being able to extend myself beyond interactions like this one. The only real course of action for overcoming this is to just basically "push past it and deal with it", which really isn't enough for me to override my reflex towards sheltering myself to a fault. It just sucks when I have a chance for something different come by and not be able to seize it, since a part of me feels like it's the worst thing I could do and that it's better to be safe and alone than a take a chance and jeopardize that.

We don't have time to really explore ourselves unless we have the time & money to do so. Might be why so many people have started new hobbies during quarantine, they have the time.

Well, I got lots of time on my hands and it doesn't seem to be helping me very much. I know that's not what you meant, but I kind of just felt like saying it anyway. I think that, regardless of how much one engages in introspection, a person's identity will always be in flux. I feel like most people just never tend to notice this and instead hop from one mood to the next without examining why that is. Even if they stop to see it, they're still stuck having to grapple with it. Either way, I guess it doesn't matter. It's all about whether you can function in the face of these things. Most can, but I cannot. That's really all there is to it.

Reminds me of the saying, "it takes a village to raise a child." What do you think?

I guess I'd offer a modified version on that and say that "within each person is a village". And it takes that internal village to make up who it is they really are. Different pieces of the same whole, basically.

Are you a fan of ST?

Oh, yes. Very much so. I've watched TNG many times over by now. As with TOS as well. DS9 I've actually only watched once, but I enjoyed it. I've never watched VOY or ENT, though. Just could never get into them, which I guess doesn't make me a hardcore trekkie, but whatever. I'll also say that I'm not a fan at all of Nu-trek (everything from the reboot onwards), as it's sometimes called. ST: Beyond was okay, but everything else just wasn't appealing to me in any form. ST really started to go downhill with the TNG movies, which are all just awful, loud and dumb action movies same as the Nu-trek films.

 

[NodusTollens]

Well, we've never really had a relationship. He saw me a couple times when I was a kid, but that's about it. I was just trying to say how, if he were to see me today, how could he ever connect those two points together,

Oh, I misunderstood. I see where you're coming from, you meant it would be jarring to consider the difference between young & current you.

I'd rather not have to work around his since, I'll admit, I don't have the patience for that.

Like you said, boundaries can be a good thing and I think the one we have should be maintained. I don't want to step on his toes and I don't want him stepping on mine. It's better that we just give each other as wide a berth, whenever otherwise possible,

That's fair, just thought I'd toss it out there Besides, if it's working for you guys now, why change it.

I can't say I really trust this place yet, though. There's still some anxiety and hesitation attached to using it

That's understandable given the nature of this site. Take your time- there's no rush & no need to do anything you don't feel comfortable doing.

The only real course of action for overcoming this is to just basically "push past it and deal with it", which really isn't enough for me to override my reflex towards sheltering myself to a fault.

That's the hard part, I definitely understand that part. It's the reason I haven't gone to any meetings/drop-in events- mind you those are in person.. ugh.

I learned about the hangover & it made venting/talking in general a little easier because then I understood why the heck I felt like overwhelmed/like crap after talking to friends sometimes. It honestly felt like a eureka moment.

Hey, no one says you have to dive in head first, you can just dip a toe in, which could make things easier for you. Any particular part of starting a new friendship that you're worried about? I find I never know what to say, so I sometimes I look up conversation started questions.

I feel like most people just never tend to notice this and instead hop from one mood to the next without examining why that is. Even if they stop to see it, they're still stuck having to grapple with it.

Yes. A state of flux, great way to put it. I would be nice to think of people as constantly changing, things seem a lot less permanent. The overwhelming lack of conscious awareness will more than likely be the greatest downfall of society- can't make changes if you don't have time for conscious thought.

I'd offer a modified version on that and say that "within each person is a village". And it takes that internal village to make up who it is they really are. Different pieces of the same whole, basically.

Thinking about lived experiences & the fact that we pick things up from people we interact with, I like your version better.

I've watched TNG many times over by now. As with TOS as well. DS9 I've actually only watched once, but I enjoyed it. I've never watched VOY or ENT, though. Just could never get into them, which I guess doesn't make me a hardcore trekkie, but whatever.

Same, not a hardcore Trekker either. I only ever really watch TNG & VOY, though I've seen random episodes of DS9/TOS. I'm a little less picky about the newer iterations of the show, but I have yet to see Picard & never got around to watching more than a few episodes of Discovery. I dunno, I didn't hate the movies- cheesy as all hell- but I like that factor in pre-2000 shows & movies.

Who's your fav character(s) in TNG?

 

[Imaginos]

I see where you're coming from, you meant it would be jarring to consider the difference between young & current you.

Yes, exactly. Again, if I were in his position, I'd see it as the saddest thing in the world. To go from remembering a young kid with some potential to enjoy life, to hearing about a broken and dreary man with a dead spirit who's experienced nothing in his perpetually empty existence, but pain. Like you said, that would be jarring to the extreme, at least for me. I've gone lower than anyone ever has, which is quite a dubious feat in itself. It's like, what the fuck am I doing here for? If this was going to be the result, then how laughably shitty is that?

I often desperately wish that somebody could have just saved myself and everyone else the disappointment/hassle of all this and crushed my head with a fucking rock when I was still an infant. To spare me the godawful trainwreck of my future that's demonstrably been shown wasn't worth ANYTHING ANYWAY. Talk about a useless waste of time. If I could travel back in time, I wouldn't change anything, save for one exception. I'd simply murder my younger self and be done with it. Funny how that'd be one way for me to kill myself, I suppose.

That's understandable given the nature of this site.

It's just how it goes with me. I never feel like I belong anywhere. Like I'm not part of the "club" and that no matter what I say/do, I never will be. Almost as if there's a wider clique that I'll be forever skirting around the edges of. Marking me as just some disposable nobody without any real presence whatsoever. You really have to consistently push your way into a community to really make it seem like you're a part of it in a meaningful way.

This is something I've never been able to do and I have to ask myself whether it's something I'd even want to ever do anyway. At the end of the day, if you look at websites as if they were a circle of people huddled together in layers, I've always been on the outermost layer. Whereas everyone else is shoulder to shoulder, I'm standing with a couple feet of distance on either side, leaving me part of the circle in a sense, yet still effectively standing alone.

Any particular part of starting a new friendship that you're worried about? I find I never know what to say, so I sometimes I look up conversation started questions.

Everything really. Maybe they'll be a total jerk at some point, maybe they believe in some really messed up stuff, maybe they'll be really clingy or creepy, maybe I'll regret ever saying anything to them at all. What if we get bored with one another, what if it falls apart after we realize we really don't have anything in common, what exactly is it are we supposed to even say to each other? All these sorts of thoughts make it very difficult for me to consider an actual "friendship" of some kind with another person. I'm not sure if I've ever even had an acquaintance, let alone a friendship.

There's a profound awkwardness attached to knowing someone in that way, at least for me. Almost as if they're now part of your personal orbit, so to speak. There's a certain uneasy feeling to that. Having this foreign object hover around nearby that you don't truly know and thus can never really trust. It elicits in me a feeling of being trapped, to be perfectly honest. Adding the weight from another person's awareness of me, that goes a step beyond stuff like this. There's a more real expectation to preform and engage, whether in conversation or other activities, which I find somewhat overwhelming.

By contrast, being alone brings with it complete safety and security. It asks nothing of me, but to endure myself. I'm miserable and extremely lonely, so I'm hardly safe from things like that, but those are emotions which sprout up from my tortured soul and thus bear familiarity. It seems my main problem is just that. I can't abide the unfamiliar, even if the familiar leaves me in an agony all its own.

I dunno, I didn't hate the movies- cheesy as all hell- but I like that factor in pre-2000 shows & movies.

I don't hate them either, but it still sucks that the best they could do with TNG was pump out a bunch of dumb action movies. More than anything, I just find them super stale and boring. At least the TOS movies tried to incorporate some of the exploratory nature of the show into their associated films (with admittedly mixed results), whereas each of the TNG ones played it totally safe and were nothing, but dumb action.

It's especially lame how out of character Picard is in the films. No diplomacy, no restraint, no nuance. Just violence and aggression. This is especially true for First Contact, which thew Picard's past character development completely under the bus. It's like Hugh (the borg that Picard could've easily exploited to destroy the entire collective, but chose not to out of forgiveness and personal principles) never even existed for crying out loud. People are rightfully complaining about the Picard show for being terrible and about how it totally craps all over his character, but, if you're honest about it, the TNG movies already dragged him through the mud.

Who's your fav character(s) in TNG?

You know, I'll be honest, outside of Geordi, Data, Worf, and Picard, I don't much care for the cast on TNG. Between all of those, Picard would definitely be my main cast favorite, with Data as a second. Be that as it may, I love TNG for the cozy feeling it has. Everything about it just makes me feel relaxed. One of the best chill out shows I know of, bar none.

Outside of ST, I've been watching Babylon 5 lately. It's a very different kind of show in a lot of ways and, arguably, has a more dynamic cast and a more interesting world/story, but TNG will always personally be the show that sits closer to my heart and will be something that, I can only hope, will always manage to soothe my soul on some level.

 

[NodusTollens]

If I could travel back in time, I wouldn't change anything, save for one exception. I'd simply murder my younger self and be done with it. Funny how that'd be one way for me to kill myself, I suppose.

:( I'm sure a lot of people on SS would choose that route, given the opportunity. Problem is, we can't- so therein lies the impasse. I find being stuck can be just a painful as failing at something. One is long and drawn out, essentially motivation, self esteem and self worth crushing. While the other, is sudden & overwhelming but usually passes quickly because you're on to the next thing.

It's just how it goes with me. I never feel like I belong anywhere. Like I'm not part of the "club" and that no matter what I say/do, I never will be.

This I understand on a personal level.
I feel out of place, just like you do & struggle to fit in IRL. Fortunately, I get to practice having these interactions online. Otherwise I wouldn't know what to say half the time.

You really have to consistently push your way into a community to really make it seem like you're a part of it in a meaningful way

I don't think it's actually that difficult, it think may seem that way because you're not online nearly as often. If you want to become more engaged here, comment on other people's threads more & react to their posts. You can't build trust, friendships or make a place for yourself on SS is you're not interacting with others on the forum.

Everything really. Maybe they'll be a total jerk at some point, maybe they believe in some really messed up stuff, maybe they'll be really clingy or creepy, maybe I'll regret ever saying anything to them at all.

:T That's a lot of what if's for something you haven't done yet. There's simply no way to know any of the things you mentioned unless you try. Otherwise you're creating scenarios in your head for things that you couldn't possibly predict & tormenting yourself.

It elicits in me a feeling of being trapped, to be perfectly honest. Adding the weight from another person's awareness of me, that goes a step beyond stuff like this. There's a more real expectation to preform and engage, whether in conversation or other activities, which I find somewhat overwhelming.

It seems my main problem is just that. I can't abide the unfamiliar, even if the familiar leaves me in an agony all its own.

You don't have to saying you don't want to, you don't have to respond if you don't feel like it, this person won't have access to your home, or contact info- if things go awry you can block them. All you're doing right now is freaking yourself out unnecessarily. Start slow, say hello, ask a question. See what happens naturally.

a bunch of dumb action movies. More than anything, I just find them super stale and boring. At least the TOS movies tried to incorporate some of the exploratory nature of the show into their associated films

That's fair. I accept them as they are. I used to watch with my father, so I won't have any harsh criticisms over the nostalgia it brings.

Data, definitely data for me. The subtle nuances to his character & the way he portrayed other instances of himself- from flat affect data to emotionally manipulative Lore. I have to give him his flowers.

People are rightfully complaining about the Picard show for being terrible and about how it totally craps all over his character

I haven't seen it, so I couldn't comment on that. I prefer to make my own judgement about TV/Movies because it's all subjective.

I love TNG for the cozy feeling it has. Everything about it just makes me feel relaxed. One of the best chill out shows I know of, bar none.

Definitely agree. From story line to character development, TNG got the formula right.

Can't say I've ever seen Babylon 5.

 

[Imaginos]

I don't think it's actually that difficult, it think may seem that way because you're not online nearly as often. If you want to become more engaged here, comment on other people's threads more & react to their posts. You can't build trust, friendships or make a place for yourself on SS is you're not interacting with others on the forum.

I've been trying, but it's difficult. Most threads are like an impenetrable barrier that I'll never be able to cross. I have nothing to say and nothing to offer anyone. I mean, am I supposed to force it? To be honest, that course of action just sounds like being knowingly disingenuous and only saying things for the sake of saying them. I certainly can't do that, nor would I want to. But that still leaves me with the problem of how often I just can't seem to say anything to anyone 90% of the time.

And yes, I know I can't ever expect to meet anyone unless I actually put myself out there. That's self-evident, but then I have all the rest of what I deal with staring me in the face. I've always known what I need to do. The problem is actually doing it. I'm sure most would chalk it up to defeatism, but it's not just a bad attitude talking here. I'm a victim of my own intractable condition.

That's a lot of what if's for something you haven't done yet. There's simply no way to know any of the things you mentioned unless you try. Otherwise you're creating scenarios in your head for things that you couldn't possibly predict & tormenting yourself.

Yes, that's a huge problem with me. I'm an utterly neurotic mess, after all. I feel like my immense self-loathing plays a crippling role here, since it's essentially impossible for someone to really trust or engage with anyone, when they can't even come or accept themselves or, at the very least, to stop actively hating themselves. As a consequence, these scenarios run rampant in my head. I'm not saying they're rational, but, even so, they're impossible to ignore. All of them, no matter how unlikely, are just plausible enough to disallow any possibility for friendship.

You don't have to saying you don't want to, you don't have to respond if you don't feel like it, this person won't have access to your home, or contact info- if things go awry you can block them. All you're doing right now is freaking yourself out unnecessarily. Start slow, say hello, ask a question. See what happens naturally.

Easier said than done. I know that when it comes to something as detached as this (like making a friend online), I can always smash the block button and bail out at any moment if it goes sideways, but the need to avoid having to find myself in that position in the first place remains paramount to me. I don't have the emotional wherewithal to even take baby steps, for the fear of where those steps will lead.

I appreciate you taking the time to listen and offer a bit of encouragement here, but I really think I'm just fucking hopeless. I've spent too long building these mental/emotional walls that now surround me and separate me from other people in every capacity. Nearly 20 years of this kind of thinking has calcified itself into the mind I now suffer with.

Honestly, I think my experience ought to serve as a palpable reminder to others in a similar predicament to sort this kind of shit out while they still have the time to do so. Otherwise, if you spend enough years in the pit as I have, there's literally never going to be the possibility for you to climb out again. You're simply fucked forever. And it's precisely that very thought itself, which has over many years now become so deeply embedded, that there's no ever removing it, thus truly sealing one's fate for good. Most people hate to hear that, but it's the truth. It fucking sucks, but life ain't fair. Many people, for one reason or another, are just doomed to suffer their own life crippling hang-ups.

I accept them as they are. I used to watch with my father, so I won't have any harsh criticisms over the nostalgia it brings.

Ah, I see. Understandable. I respect the memories you have associated with them. It's just that, for me, I can only judge them for, as you say, what they actually are and how strongly they clash with the heart/soul of the show. I guess I'll just leave it at that. Didn't mean to take away from your nostalgia.

I haven't seen it, so I couldn't comment on that. I prefer to make my own judgement about TV/Movies because it's all subjective.

Agreed. However, when something looks really bad, and I mean REALLY bad, there's really no point wasting your time with it. That's definitely how I feel about these recent Nu-trek shows and how little they actually have in common with ST, besides sharing the name. They're homogenized to appeal to the widest possible audience and I don't have to ever watch them to know that I'd immediately dislike both. I know that sounds guilty of being narrow minded, but you have to admit that there are exceptions to everything.

Can't say I've ever seen Babylon 5.

If you're still into sci-fi shows, then I'd certainly recommend it. I've found it often hits WAY closer to home than ST ever did. For instance, the last episode I watched was all about how these parasites are invading people's bodies, but then you find out that they're actually benign keepers of knowledge who are sharing a symbiotic relationships with their hosts. A bit like Dax from DS9 and how their species operates. The part that hit close to home here was how the parasites were deliberately seeking out those who had nothing in their lives whatsoever. The friendless, the depressed, and those without purpose, contentment or happiness. The lowest of the low, bereft of any hope for themselves or the future. The bungled and the botched, as Nietzsche once put it. They offered themselves willingly to these parasites, not just to escape their own personal torment, but to finally have a reason to keep bothering to live at all.

At the end of the episode, one guy loses his parasite to prove to the main cast that their intentions are good. However, this leaves the host unable to re-join with it. This guy then says how his life was, and is, a steaming pile of shit and he was never going to amount to a god damned fucking thing at all, or enjoy a single moment of peace from himself. In that sense, the parasite was the best blessing he could have hoped for. Failing that, he decides to try and see some of the universe and recapture this sense of "specialness" he experienced while with the parasite. He laments how easy it is to wait until it's too late and that, tragically, people like him often do so. In that sense the episode ends on a hopeful note, although not really since the guy's like 65 years old and is pretty much near dead anyway. The real sad turn was that it kind of was already too late for him.

Anyway, just the fact that this particular episode was so centered around the lonely and lost living their miserably useless lives, just like me, really hit me in the gut. Babylon 5 really nails it when it comes to showing raw human pain and suffering. No offense to TNG, but B5 has quite a bit more depth on that front and, as a consequence, can be pretty depressing at times, but I find a lot more uniquely authentic as well.

 

[NodusTollens]

I've been trying, but it's difficult. Most threads are like an impenetrable barrier that I'll never be able to cross. I have nothing to say and nothing to offer anyone. I mean, am I supposed to force it?

But that still leaves me with the problem of how often I just can't seem to say anything to anyone 90% of the time.

I never said that. Just comment whatever you think relates to the thread. Some people crack jokes, some share memes- you just need to "read the room." If you have nothing to say, don't- just react. There are days where I do little more than react to posts. For example, I rarely, if ever comment often on method posts for example, but I have little to no knowledge about most. Do what's most effective for you.

All of them, no matter how unlikely, are just plausible enough to disallow any possibility for friendship.

I hear & understand where you're coming from in regards to these things being possibilities. As you're right, they could happen. The reason for that, you're interacting with another autonomous person. They're likely to feel any range of emotions, similarly to you. Even the desire for friendship.

I don't have the emotional wherewithal to even take baby steps, for the fear of where those steps will lead.

I've spent too long building these mental/emotional walls that now surround me and separate me from other people in every capacity.

You're making statements as though you'll never be able to cultivate the emotional ability in yourself. Though, you yourself mentioned that people are in a constant state of flux, so how does that reconcile with the belief that you would never be able to learn to make friends. Also, as an example, bigoted people have/can learn acceptance despite years of anger & hatred, that kind of cognitive shift is possible.

I know that sounds guilty of being narrow minded, but you have to admit that there are exceptions to everything.

If that's what you're looking for.

I was simply stating that I would rather form my own opinion, in lieu of following herd mentality. There will always be outliers in the matter of opinion.

They offered themselves willingly to these parasites, not just to escape their own personal torment, but to finally have a reason to keep bothering to live at all.

That sounds like a noble act, kind of like donating your body to science. An interesting was to give meaning to one's existence.

 

[Imaginos]

If you have nothing to say, don't,

Well, that's just it. 9 times of 10, I don't. That itself greatly inhibits my overall presence and, as a consequence, makes it less likely that I'll expose and interact consistently with others, thereby meaning less people will know of me or want to engage with me. The less of that there is, the less possibility exists for me to overcome these inhibitions of mine, assuming that's even possible to begin with.

You're making statements as though you'll never be able to cultivate the emotional ability in yourself. Though, you yourself mentioned that people are in a constant state of flux, so how does that reconcile with the belief that you would never be able to learn to make friends.

I'm not saying it's absolutely impossible that someone like myself could change, but without the right conditions to allow a change of this sort to flourish, then it simply remains dead and inactive. Someone in my position is in a climate utterly non-conducive to the sort of change that might, even slightly. turn these deeply embedded tendencies of mine around to being otherwise. What would be a proper climate? Well, that just takes us back to the lack of resources I suffer from and being trapped/limited by the conditions of my personal situation. The tragedy is that often these kinds of conditions remain fixed for the entirety of one's life, effectively making change impossible. Although it technically might be possible, it's not practically realizable, leading to one being stuck where they're at.

Ideologically, we're generally conditioned to believe that everyone has the ability to dig their hands into the walls surrounding whatever pit they might be trapped in, and to from there slowly claw themselves out. It's a quaint idea, but a totally unrealistic one. It assumes that, no matter what, we're all on similar footing, have similar capacities, and can seize the same sorts of opportunities that exist for others. Needless to say, but this grossly ignores the true reality of each person's individual situation. Without the support and insights of others outside the pit, many are simply stuck where they find themselves.

And while yes, I agree that people are in flux, I more meant it in the sense that each person is split between many different forms of divided desires, as influenced by their conflicting personality quirks. When it comes down to it, I'd actually consider myself a genetic determinist. In other words, I believe a person's genes fundamentally determine who they will be and everything they're capable of doing. If someone changes, that isn't so much due to their "willpower", but that their genetics allowed for that possibility within the confines of what was already established. If someone's genetics dictate certain parameters, then there's really no way to overcome them, short of advanced level gene therapy correcting the problem at its source. Otherwise, this sort of stuff is basically immutable. The real torture comes down to the fact that humans are apes and, therefore, are programmed to seek out social connections. However, if you're genetically limited in this area, then you'll be forever unable to fulfill this genetically mandated need for social engagement. Like a machine programmed to fulfill a task that it's been designed unable to accomplish. In this way, it's very possible to be a truly defective human being.

I was simply stating that I would rather form my own opinion, in lieu of following herd mentality. There will always be outliers in the matter of opinion.

Well, again, I don't disagree with you. I feel precisely the same way. I'm just saying that, at this point, I know what it is I like, and what it is I don't like. I just don't bother wasting time with things that I know I won't like. This applies to the media landscape, but, I suppose in some sense, it even applies to the rest of what I've brought up here as well, and avoiding things I know I won't like, albeit for much different reasons.

That sounds like a noble act, kind of like donating your body to science. An interesting was to give meaning to one's existence.

It is, but I feel like it'd be more noble if the people in question didn't happen to be miserable losers. In their case, they're not so much sacrificing themselves, as eagerly grabbing a hold of the only possibility for happiness/satisfaction that they'll ever know. In this sense, they're really not giving up on anything, since they never had anything to begin with. It's very tragic in that sense, but also wonderful, since they've finally been given a life they wish to live. Even if that means fusing with a symbiotic parasite.

 

[NodusTollens]

I'm not saying it's absolutely impossible that someone like myself could change, but without the right conditions to allow a change of this sort to flourish, then it simply remains dead and inactive.

Well that's up to you, no one can make you do anything you don't feel comfortable doing. I just thought I'd help brainstorm some options. If these don't work for you, then I'm sure you'll figure out something that does.

 

[Imaginos]

If these don't work for you, then I'm sure you'll figure out something that does.

Well, I guess you never know. I wouldn't want to bet money on it exactly, but maybe something like that'll happen.....someday. Either way, I'll just have to try and stay active where I can, whenever that's possible for me. And yeah, thanks for saying all that you said. This is actually the longest I've messaged with anyone for a great long while. I appreciated it.