Should suicide be the last resort?

[noname223]

I was not sure whether I shall write in recovery or in suicide discussion. It is more related to suicide that is why I post it here. If it is too annoying for some people I can repost it in recovery.
The people I admire like David Foster Wallace or Adam Maier-Clayton (though I recently learned he was against assisted suicide for mentally ill.) have tried A LOT to recover. In the end both commited suicide. But they tried like almost every therapy that was possible. I respect that. DFW tried even tried ECT. However it is not sure whether this was counterproductive or not. The most common theory was he stopped his antidepressant and when he took it again it stopped working. This man had like 30 years severe depression. That he could endure that is kind of respectable.

He said he tried to worship things that were larger than himself. (at least this is what I remember I would know the video where he said that.)
I try to do the same. Though not in a religious sense. But having higher values is kind of good because it gives life kind of a structure. As a nihilist/existentialist many suffer because they do not believe in anything (I do not mean this in a religious sense). As Jordan Peterson said if you question every value and you do not believe in anything there remains only one thing pain. Because pain is so real when you experience it that it does not go away if you doubt it.
Peterson thinks the best structure would be a judeo-christian worldview. I personally doubt that.

I also believe it is a good choice to see suicide as the last resort and try everything you can do to avoid it.. However I feel like no matter how strong I try to fight it it does not work out that well. I would adivise against to make the decision lightly. Though I have the feeling not many people make this decision lightly.
DFW once talked about a pornstar (in Big Red son) who would have commited suicide lightly. Because she was disfigured after a car accident (I think). It is hard to make such a claim without knowing much about a person. I really like his work and can relate a lot but it is really hard to measure something like that.

 

[Snake of Eden]

Suicide is always a last resort imo. If it is not then it most likely to be unintentional accident.

 

[cambrai33]

The finality of suicide for me means absolutely the last resort, but the resorts that precede this can be wide and varied.

Because I am a contradiction, suicide can also be for no reason rather than because it's a unique act of self empowerment and determination. It can also be because you have idealised it for so long and been preset with means and method that you don't have the original motivation but go through with it anyway.

Just to add this is not generalising but personal thoughts on the matter and probably doesn't represent most peoples thoughts here.

 

[motel rooms]

It's definitely the last resort in the vast majority of cases, but why shouldn't people be free to ctb for purely philosophical reasons? It's their fucking life.

 

[noname223]

It's definitely the last resort in the vast majority of cases, but why shouldn't people be free to ctb for purely philosophical reasons? It's their fucking life.

To be honest this is a question I ask myself too.
Didn't Albert Camus say whether to commit suicide or not is the most difficult philosophical question there is.
I am currently searching this quote but I can't find it. Maybe someone else said it? I am pretty sure someone in this forum knows the answer.

I have found it.
There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest — whether or not the world has three dimensions, whether the mind has nine or twelve categories — comes afterwards. These are games; one must first answer. And if it is true, as Nietzsche claims, that a philosopher, to deserve our respect, must preach by example, you can appreciate the importance of that reply, for it will precede the definitive act. These are facts the heart can feel; yet they call for careful study before they become clear to the intellect.

 

[motel rooms]

Didn't Albert Camus say whether to commit suicide or not is the most difficult philosophical question there is.

"There is only one really serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide."
-- A. Camus

It can also be because you have idealised it for so long and been preset with means and method that you don't have the original motivation but go through with it anyway.

Would you care to elaborate on that?

 

[cambrai33]

Would you care to elaborate on that?

We both know

 

[motel rooms]

We both know

What would you ask/tell a person with that type of motive to ctb?

 

[cambrai33]

What would you ask/tell a person with that type of motive to ctb?

I wouldn't tell anyone how to conduct at ctb but I would feel disappointed with that motivation but it's a personal choice….

What would I ask? Is the consequence on others worth proving a point that you won't be there to gloat over

In addition this is all hypotheticals

 

[motel rooms]

I wouldn't tell anyone to ctb, it's a personal choice….

But you would tell them not to do it before making absolutely sure it's the only solution for them.

What would I ask? Is the consequence on others worth proving a point that you won't be there to gloat over

So only others matter to this person? Their own well-being is irrelevant?

 

[cambrai33]

But you would tell them not to do it before making absolutely sure it's the only solution for them.



So only others matter to this person? Their own well-being is irrelevant?

You are such a twat

Sometimes the right solution isn't the only solution, in addition, it's not a solution unless it solves something and not just because…..

Secondly, from a position of no self value or worth, the well being of that individual hypothetically speaking is of no relevance

 

[Dot]

Mght as wll b lst resrt bc wll alwys b finl decsn. Nt lke cn try n.e.thng aftr.

 

[motel rooms]

You are such a twat

Just giving you a taste of your own medicine.

 

[cambrai33]

Just giving you a taste of your own medicine.

Fair call, I do so enjoy our little chats around the nuance's of death and morality and must admit when I see the notification of a quote to my post from you, that the debate is never dull

 

[eternalpeace]

I agree it should be viewed as a last resort, if for no other reason the uncertainty of it. (Uncertainty as to whether or not it will actually work—even the perfect plan can fail, and the uncertainty of what comes next—we assume that whatever it is will be better than what we are enduring now, but what if we are wrong? As the old saying goes, "better the devil you know…"). On a more optimistic note, there are people who manage to turn their lives around at a late age and in the face of trying circumstances, and extinguishing that hope, however remote, is not to be taken lightly. That said, I think different people will always have a different concept of when they have reached the "last resort". We all have different ideas of what is and is not tolerable.

 

[Cuppatea856]

I don't think anyone takes their decision to commit suicide lightly. Do you truly believe anyone does? The only time that may happen is if someone is under the influence of drugs and alcohol and has lowered inhibitions.
As a fan of DFW myself, I still think this essay is the best explanation I can find on why people commit suicide, I've pasted it

"The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling."

 

[motel rooms]

Jacques Rigaut (30 December 1898 – 9 November 1929) was a surrealist poet. Born in Paris, he was part of the Dadaist movement. His works frequently talked about suicide and he came to regard its successful completion as his occupation. In 1929, at the age of 30, as he had announced, Rigaut shot himself, using a ruler to be sure the bullet would pass through his heart.

"Suicide must be a vocation."
"Dilemma. One of two things: to not speak, to not be silent. Suicide."

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F7%2F7d%2FJacques_Rigaut_portrait.jpg%2F220px-Jacques_Rigaut_portrait.jpg&hash=3ac5bdb66781663e9d7a141067190de9

 

[Bunyips]

I think suicide is definitely a last resort. Most people try anything and everything before they commit to die. It's why suicide hotlines and stuff like that exist. Everyone has tried something else before they surrender.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

I think suicide is definitely a last resort. Most people try anything and everything before they commit to die. It's why suicide hotlines and stuff like that exist. Everyone has tried something else before they surrender.

I agree. People don't just wake up one day and decide to kill themselves. It is multiple things just piling up over time until you had enough. There are those who just get bored of living but I think those cases are rare.

 

[ElderRecluse]

Maybe I'm one of those cases of just being bored of living. I'm not terminal at the moment, nor do I have uncontrollable pain. But, I'm old and do have some serious health problems. Also, I have a fear of a stroke that leaves me paralyzed, but doesn't kill me. And, as stated, I'm bored of living. I have a social phobia which doesn't help, plus all my friends have either moved from the area or died.

My point is, I don't think it is always a last resort. I have the means of choice and am currently putting it off because it would be very disruptive to my son at this time.

 

[chocolatebar]

Jacques Rigaut (30 December 1898 – 9 November 1929) was a surrealist poet. Born in Paris, he was part of the Dadaist movement. His works frequently talked about suicide and he came to regard its successful completion as his occupation. In 1929, at the age of 30, as he had announced, Rigaut shot himself, using a ruler to be sure the bullet would pass through his heart.

"Suicide must be a vocation."
"Dilemma. One of two things: to not speak, to not be silent. Suicide."

For some reason, this makes me feel really underachieved and old...
I suffer from many things, but this feeling... don't even know if I can ever overcome it

 

[YourNeighbor]

Suicide can only be the last resort. It's part of the definition.

 

[FuneralCry]

Suicide does not have to be a last resort as we all have the right to exit this world at a time of our own choosing. We have no obligations to stay alive as we did not ask to exist. It is a personal decision. However, I believe in many cases, people who ctb are completely hopeless and desperate and they see no other solution to their problems. Suicide is very difficult as we are programmed to survive, so I believe that at least in my case you must be desperate to be able to overcome the survival instinct. In my case, life itself is the problem and the only way for me to solve that problem is to die.

 

[YourNeighbor]

Suicide does not have to be a last resort as we all have the right to exit this world at a time of our own choosing.

By definition, suicide is the last resort of anyone who does it, whether it is the result of free choice, delusion, miscalculation, necessity, or any other reason.

 

[Braindead Atheist]

I think suicide should be offered in all circumstances, but I also think people should really think before they do it.

 

[deflationary]

Not for me. I have tried very little to improve my situation. I'd rather just die. Life is a cringe-inducing compromise. It's obvious that it's inherently flawed, so I'd rather just not have anything to do with it. But, alas, as a last resort, I'm forced to go on living for now.

I guess I do think people should at least give it serious thought beforehand, because in most cases it will inevitably cause serious harm to other people. But I'm not gonna tell anyone (except perhaps parents of young kids) that they have to go on living for someone else's sake.

Suicide can only be the last resort. It's part of the definition.

Not really. There can be other things for you to try and you can still prefer suicide.

 

[Nati]

Of curse technically you should always look for other ways to fix the issue but it really depends on how much of disappointment you can take and if your mental state will allow you to try stuff. You might be too depressed to even try and just lay in your bed (that's kinda me right now..).
personally I think I tried a lot before I "officially" gave up. I've Tried different pills and even went for a diagnostic with a guy that's literally run the largest psychiatric hospital in my country. Also, I had ECT. Everything that I tried had no effect on me. The ECT was the last thing I tried and then I said to myself "no more". There's no point.

 

[Onthe29th]

I don't know what the last resort is. I feel like I've tried to look for a way out but to no avail. Maybe there are options that I don't know of but the problem is that I don't know them. I talk but no one listens. Am I the problem and am I wrong for feeling this way or is it them. I really don't know.