Discussion Shaking up mental health care

[BipolarGuy]

The quality of professional mental health care is dire, and dramatic improvement is urgent.
Unfortunately this improvement isn't going to be delivered by organisations like the NHS or governments.
Complaining makes no difference.

I'd like to get people's view on the following idea and to sense check me.
I have spoken to a few people about it in PM.

Do you think it would be possible to start an informal grassroots movement in order to bring about an improvement in mental health services, and to actively put something together to bring about that change.
I don't mean lobby government, or submit coordinate complaints.

I mean start a movement of like minded supporters who want to see mental health care being delivered AS IT SHOULD BE.

I have thought about this:

1. Doing the ground work to start a movement, raising awareness of the problems with mental health care.
2. Once we have traction, start a campaign on gofundme (moderators: I am not asking anybody on this site, or indeed elsewhere, for money. I'm just discussing an idea).
3. Use money from gofundme to finance the purchase of a beautiful mid-sized hotel in an idyllic location, refurbish the hotel into a stunning, modern mental health recovery unit. Not for people who may be a danger to others, but for suicidal people who need time out and able to access 1st class help but who have been failed by 'the system'.
I'd hand pick staff myself, in part by asking deep questions in order to get to know how they think and process information: are the fundamentally bureaucrats or can they think for themselves without the need of the flowchart.
For example I'd ask them to design the basics of a treatment process, but then ask how someone who falls outside process in some way will be treated.
Essentially, the community coming together to build a 1st class unit that delivers gold standard care.

I am so fed up of the same old shit in mental health care.
It won't get better if people don't do anything themselves.

What do you think?

 

[fox21132113]

I support your movement. You would need financial investors and they need to re-do the education system of mental health degrees

 

[BipolarGuy]

I support your movement. You would need financial investors and they need to re-do the education system of mental health degrees

Thank you.
Any investors would not require degrees in mental health.

 

[fox21132113]

Yeah sorry, two separate thoughts. Not sure if that helps make sense?

 

[BipolarGuy]

Yeah sorry, two separate thoughts. Not sure if that helps make sense?

Sorry but it made no sense.

 

[fox21132113]

I'll totally rephrase it. One must find financial investors for your endeavor to purchase a property, easy peasy to find a passionate advocate. Also, in my opinion, university courses, may need some recalibration before letting their students achieve desired mental health degrees. This idea contributes to the larger picture for standard of care across the community.

 

[Worthless_nobody]

I love the idea. We need a complete over haul of healthcare across the world. It's an absolute tragedy that people can't get help even if they want it. The choices are go in debt, suffer or die (I'm in US and it's atrocious here but it seems no one has a good system). Would be nice if this ideacould actually become a reality. It's definitely not going to get better unless people take matters into their own hands. Mental health care is so misunderstood, people unfairly labeled, shoved off and full of incompetent drs who just push pills like candy as fist line of treatment. It's sad.

 

[LonelyDude15]

Does anyone know of any movements one could get involved in?

 

[Sinkinshyp]

I think it's a great idea. One viral video can reach millions to generate funds and followers to help fight how mental health is treated.

 

[BipolarGuy]

Does anyone know of any movements one could get involved in?

Yoga?

I love the idea. We need a complete over haul of healthcare across the world. It's an absolute tragedy that people can't get help even if they want it. The choices are go in debt, suffer or die (I'm in US and it's atrocious here but it seems no one has a good system). Would be nice if this ideacould actually become a reality. It's definitely not going to get better unless people take matters into their own hands. Mental health care is so misunderstood, people unfairly labeled, shoved off and full of incompetent drs who just push pills like candy as fist line of treatment. It's sad.

Totally agree.

 

[TheQ22]

It's a great idea.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

The quality of professional mental health care is dire, and dramatic improvement is urgent.
Unfortunately this improvement isn't going to be delivered by organisations like the NHS or governments.
Complaining makes no difference.

I'd like to get people's view on the following idea and to sense check me.
I have spoken to a few people about it in PM.

Do you think it would be possible to start an informal grassroots movement in order to bring about an improvement in mental health services, and to actively put something together to bring about that change.
I don't mean lobby government, or submit coordinate complaints.

I mean start a movement of like minded supporters who want to see mental health care being delivered AS IT SHOULD BE.

I have thought about this:

1. Doing the ground work to start a movement, raising awareness of the problems with mental health care.
2. Once we have traction, start a campaign on gofundme (moderators: I am not asking anybody on this site, or indeed elsewhere, for money. I'm just discussing an idea).
3. Use money from gofundme to finance the purchase of a beautiful mid-sized hotel in an idyllic location, refurbish the hotel into a stunning, modern mental health recovery unit. Not for people who may be a danger to others, but for suicidal people who need time out and able to access 1st class help but who have been failed by 'the system'.
I'd hand pick staff myself, in part by asking deep questions in order to get to know how they think and process information: are the fundamentally bureaucrats or can they think for themselves without the need of the flowchart.
For example I'd ask them to design the basics of a treatment process, but then ask how someone who falls outside process in some way will be treated.
Essentially, the community coming together to build a 1st class unit that delivers gold standard care.

I am so fed up of the same old shit in mental health care.
It won't get better if people don't do anything themselves.

What do you think?

I agree and I've often though this would be a great thing to do. Damn hard to know how though, practically speaking. You have some good ideas, but I'm not sure how well it would work in the real world. It would be problematic and the consensus would resist. It would also need a vast amount of money, not just to set up, but on a continual basis. I wonder if simply laying the ground work in terms of shifting public opinion would be a gargantuan but worthy feat in itself?

Don't know if you've read my previous post, but I express some medication specific opinions in it that may be in some way relevant...

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...psycho-active-prescription-medications.40224/

 

[BipolarGuy]

I agree and I've often though this would be a great thing to do. Damn hard to know how though, practically speaking. You have some good ideas, but I'm not sure how well it would work in the real world. It would be problematic and the consensus would resist. It would also need a vast amount of money, not just to set up, but on a continual basis. I wonder if simply laying the ground work in terms of shifting public opinion would be a gargantuan but worthy feat in itself?

Don't know if you've read my previous post, but I express some medication specific opinions in it that may be in some way relevant...

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...psycho-active-prescription-medications.40224/

Hey,

I've seen your PM and will reply in a few minutes. I'm just dealing with the flood of notifications I wake up to every morning

I actually have a bit of experience with creating change.
In a particular industry change was needed as that industry was (is!) stuck in the 1960's. I innocently started discussing this on a forum for members of that industry.
You're right, the established players in the industry resisted and poured cold water over the suggestion that things needed to change, however the industry is small and I know the people that poured cold water over it. They were people who were benefiting in some way from the industry being as it is, they didn't know how to change, and in any case change would most likely have meant that their security of business would be under threat, particularly mid/long-term.
These people also informally 'controlled' the forum, and anyone who was seen to be openly agreeing with me on the forum would be victimised and ridiculed.
But, most others agreed that change was needed, and so I with the help of others started to bring about change.

The lengths that some people go to in order to stop people from speaking the obvious truth is remarkable, but I'm used to it and it doesn't shake me at all.
I know how they work probably more than they know themselves.

The real thing that needs to be considered is that if a project like this were to go ahead, who would we be looking at convincing?
NHS managers earning £200k+ at mental health services?
No!

They're too comfy in their little office job, with their greatest concern being where their next latte is coming from.

The people that need to be convinced is the public, and that wouldn't take much doing as the fact that mental health services are very very poor is already a well established truth.

 

[Sk1n1M1n]

But thing is that mental ill health is common in the working and student population, theres so many people living with mental health illnesses at work, in school and those who are too ill to work or with chronic illness with the pressures of work, potentially being redundant, increased pressure from management, less breaks and often crap pay barely paying for life essentials and then there's the long hours, travelling etc. That's why I am only going to work specifc amount hours per week and stick to it once I qualify in social work.

 

[BipolarGuy]

But thing is that mental ill health is common in the working and student population, theres so many people living with mental health illnesses at work, in school and those who are too ill to work or with chronic illness with the pressures of work, potentially being redundant, increased pressure from management, less breaks and often crap pay barely paying for life essentials and then there's the long hours, travelling etc. That's why I am only going to work specifc amount hours per week and stick to it once I qualify in social work.

I agree that the way society is organised does not benefit mental or physical health.

 

[noaccount]

The quality of professional mental health care is dire, and dramatic improvement is urgent.
Unfortunately this improvement isn't going to be delivered by organisations like the NHS or governments.
Complaining makes no difference.

I'd like to get people's view on the following idea and to sense check me.
I have spoken to a few people about it in PM.

Do you think it would be possible to start an informal grassroots movement in order to bring about an improvement in mental health services, and to actively put something together to bring about that change.
I don't mean lobby government, or submit coordinate complaints.

I mean start a movement of like minded supporters who want to see mental health care being delivered AS IT SHOULD BE.

I have thought about this:

1. Doing the ground work to start a movement, raising awareness of the problems with mental health care.
2. Once we have traction, start a campaign on gofundme (moderators: I am not asking anybody on this site, or indeed elsewhere, for money. I'm just discussing an idea).
3. Use money from gofundme to finance the purchase of a beautiful mid-sized hotel in an idyllic location, refurbish the hotel into a stunning, modern mental health recovery unit. Not for people who may be a danger to others, but for suicidal people who need time out and able to access 1st class help but who have been failed by 'the system'.
I'd hand pick staff myself, in part by asking deep questions in order to get to know how they think and process information: are the fundamentally bureaucrats or can they think for themselves without the need of the flowchart.
For example I'd ask them to design the basics of a treatment process, but then ask how someone who falls outside process in some way will be treated.
Essentially, the community coming together to build a 1st class unit that delivers gold standard care.

I am so fed up of the same old shit in mental health care.
It won't get better if people don't do anything themselves.

What do you think?

Hi, I've been meaning to answer this but I've been having trouble focusing!

Curious, which problems in mental health care do you most want to draw focus to?

For me I try to break it down like this:

There's both the problem where they call people "MORE SICK" to force them into inpatient units, section us for suicide attempts or for disagreeing with them, and the problem where they call people "LESS SICK" to push them out of services, to call them "fit for work" and cut off their benefits which does push people to suicide!

(Kind of similar: The Autistic community has talked for years about how "Functioning Labels" are used in a similar way: "They call us low-functioning to deny us our rights, they call us high-functioning to deny us support.")

Also, the mental health system has a lot of pre-packaged ideas about what "healthier" should look like, and gets very disrespectful of the decisions we want to make for ourselves. For instance they may push the norm "No one should be hearing voices or seeing visions," but then some people formed the Hearing Voices Network because they felt it was better for them to learn from each other about how to live with their voice-hearing. And it's very common for a psychiatrist to look at a conflict between several people, and treat it as a problem within the least-privileged person - ie, they call a lot of Black people "paranoid" for speaking up about racism, and they drug up a lot of kids for having different ideas and goals than their parents and teachers.

There are a few spaces that come to mind that sound kind of like what you're talking about! There are peer-run respites for people in crisis in the States that are free, house-like rather than hospital-like, and all-voluntary - anyone can leave at will. The staff are other people who've struggled with extreme states, not clinicians. But wanting clinicians and specialists for some things makes sense too, and yeah having all of those people be reviewed, hired and fired by the patients / service-users would be ideal...

Things like 24-7 respite houses are more resource-heavy, like they require more funds either privately or from the state. However to "stay funded" they're often limited in what they can do to resist the carcerial state and capital. Judi Chamberlin and other activists from the psychiatric survivor / consumer / ex-patient movement talked about how, in c/s/x support spaces that got "taken over" by clinicians or state agencies, the deeper critiques and transformative goals they had withered away. Other "lighter" stuff is easier to set up with a few friends or allies, without institutional approval, like a weekly support space, circulating reviews of local practitioners, etc. When people have done stuff like this before like mad pride or mental patients union, they've often had less to do with "mental health services" and more to do with anti-authoritarian social movements. Both have value!

If I was looking at starting something locally, I might check to see if there are any organizations of the homeless, harm-reduction efforts by illicit drug users, or such nearby to reach out to for input, like on what their needs are? Youth liberation activists? Prison abolitionists? I think it's important to keep an eye on the intersectional ways the mental health system's hurt different groups of people, because it's complicated and I've seen women and people of color get talked over in a few different psych-survivor/ex-patient spaces. Even just getting a few people who can take turns with facilitator roles can make a big difference in avoiding burnout and making groups less personality-based. Before covid, libraries and ywcas seemed like good free meeting places sometimes, everything's different now, outdoor gatherings work in the warmer weather but yeah it's mostly the tyranny of zoom now...

Another example of poor and working-class people organizing independently on a shoestring budget is ADAPT which is a group of disabled people fighting for better healthcare, accessable housing, etc.

Let me know if I should post more info about any of this, I don't want to post linkspam here unsolicited. :)

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Hi, I've been meaning to answer this but I've been having trouble focusing!

Curious, which problems in mental health care do you most want to draw focus to?

For me I try to break it down like this:

There's both the problem where they call people "MORE SICK" to force them into inpatient units, section us for suicide attempts or for disagreeing with them, and the problem where they call people "LESS SICK" to push them out of services, to call them "fit for work" and cut off their benefits which does push people to suicide!

(Kind of similar: The Autistic community has talked for years about how "Functioning Labels" are used in a similar way: "They call us low-functioning to deny us our rights, they call us high-functioning to deny us support.")

Also, the mental health system has a lot of pre-packaged ideas about what "healthier" should look like, and gets very disrespectful of the decisions we want to make for ourselves. For instance they may push the norm "No one should be hearing voices or seeing visions," but then some people formed the Hearing Voices Network because they felt it was better for them to learn from each other about how to live with their voice-hearing. And it's very common for a psychiatrist to look at a conflict between several people, and treat it as a problem within the least-privileged person - ie, they call a lot of Black people "paranoid" for speaking up about racism, and they drug up a lot of kids for having different ideas and goals than their parents and teachers.

There are a few spaces that come to mind that sound kind of like what you're talking about! There are peer-run respites for people in crisis in the States that are free, house-like rather than hospital-like, and all-voluntary - anyone can leave at will. The staff are other people who've struggled with extreme states, not clinicians. But wanting clinicians and specialists for some things makes sense too, and yeah having all of those people be reviewed, hired and fired by the patients / service-users would be ideal...

Things like 24-7 respite houses are more resource-heavy, like they require more funds either privately or from the state. However to "stay funded" they're often limited in what they can do to resist the carcerial state and capital. Judi Chamberlin and other activists from the psychiatric survivor / consumer / ex-patient movement talked about how, in c/s/x support spaces that got "taken over" by clinicians or state agencies, the deeper critiques and transformative goals they had withered away. Other "lighter" stuff is easier to set up with a few friends or allies, without institutional approval, like a weekly support space, circulating reviews of local practitioners, etc. When people have done stuff like this before like mad pride or mental patients union, they've often had less to do with "mental health services" and more to do with anti-authoritarian social movements. Both have value!

If I was looking at starting something locally, I might check to see if there are any organizations of the homeless, harm-reduction efforts by illicit drug users, or such nearby to reach out to for input, like on what their needs are? Youth liberation activists? Prison abolitionists? I think it's important to keep an eye on the intersectional ways the mental health system's hurt different groups of people, because it's complicated and I've seen women and people of color get talked over in a few different psych-survivor/ex-patient spaces. Even just getting a few people who can take turns with facilitator roles can make a big difference in avoiding burnout and making groups less personality-based. Before covid, libraries and ywcas seemed like good free meeting places sometimes, everything's different now, outdoor gatherings work in the warmer weather but yeah it's mostly the tyranny of zoom now...

Another example of poor and working-class people organizing independently on a shoestring budget is ADAPT which is a group of disabled people fighting for better healthcare, accessable housing, etc.

Let me know if I should post more info about any of this, I don't want to post linkspam here unsolicited. :)

Unrelated, but I love how you have used the colour gradient in your response!

 

[GravityUtilizer]

It's definitely time in this 'woke' society to get mental health care properly addressed.

 

[sufferingalways]

Hi, I've been meaning to answer this but I've been having trouble focusing!

Curious, which problems in mental health care do you most want to draw focus to?

For me I try to break it down like this:

There's both the problem where they call people "MORE SICK" to force them into inpatient units, section us for suicide attempts or for disagreeing with them, and the problem where they call people "LESS SICK" to push them out of services, to call them "fit for work" and cut off their benefits which does push people to suicide!

(Kind of similar: The Autistic community has talked for years about how "Functioning Labels" are used in a similar way: "They call us low-functioning to deny us our rights, they call us high-functioning to deny us support.")

Also, the mental health system has a lot of pre-packaged ideas about what "healthier" should look like, and gets very disrespectful of the decisions we want to make for ourselves. For instance they may push the norm "No one should be hearing voices or seeing visions," but then some people formed the Hearing Voices Network because they felt it was better for them to learn from each other about how to live with their voice-hearing. And it's very common for a psychiatrist to look at a conflict between several people, and treat it as a problem within the least-privileged person - ie, they call a lot of Black people "paranoid" for speaking up about racism, and they drug up a lot of kids for having different ideas and goals than their parents and teachers.

There are a few spaces that come to mind that sound kind of like what you're talking about! There are peer-run respites for people in crisis in the States that are free, house-like rather than hospital-like, and all-voluntary - anyone can leave at will. The staff are other people who've struggled with extreme states, not clinicians. But wanting clinicians and specialists for some things makes sense too, and yeah having all of those people be reviewed, hired and fired by the patients / service-users would be ideal...

Things like 24-7 respite houses are more resource-heavy, like they require more funds either privately or from the state. However to "stay funded" they're often limited in what they can do to resist the carcerial state and capital. Judi Chamberlin and other activists from the psychiatric survivor / consumer / ex-patient movement talked about how, in c/s/x support spaces that got "taken over" by clinicians or state agencies, the deeper critiques and transformative goals they had withered away. Other "lighter" stuff is easier to set up with a few friends or allies, without institutional approval, like a weekly support space, circulating reviews of local practitioners, etc. When people have done stuff like this before like mad pride or mental patients union, they've often had less to do with "mental health services" and more to do with anti-authoritarian social movements. Both have value!

If I was looking at starting something locally, I might check to see if there are any organizations of the homeless, harm-reduction efforts by illicit drug users, or such nearby to reach out to for input, like on what their needs are? Youth liberation activists? Prison abolitionists? I think it's important to keep an eye on the intersectional ways the mental health system's hurt different groups of people, because it's complicated and I've seen women and people of color get talked over in a few different psych-survivor/ex-patient spaces. Even just getting a few people who can take turns with facilitator roles can make a big difference in avoiding burnout and making groups less personality-based. Before covid, libraries and ywcas seemed like good free meeting places sometimes, everything's different now, outdoor gatherings work in the warmer weather but yeah it's mostly the tyranny of zoom now...

Another example of poor and working-class people organizing independently on a shoestring budget is ADAPT which is a group of disabled people fighting for better healthcare, accessable housing, etc.

Let me know if I should post more info about any of this, I don't want to post linkspam here unsolicited. :)

Hi, I've been meaning to answer this but I've been having trouble focusing!

Curious, which problems in mental health care do you most want to draw focus to?

For me I try to break it down like this:

There's both the problem where they call people "MORE SICK" to force them into inpatient units, section us for suicide attempts or for disagreeing with them, and the problem where they call people "LESS SICK" to push them out of services, to call them "fit for work" and cut off their benefits which does push people to suicide!

(Kind of similar: The Autistic community has talked for years about how "Functioning Labels" are used in a similar way: "They call us low-functioning to deny us our rights, they call us high-functioning to deny us support.")

Also, the mental health system has a lot of pre-packaged ideas about what "healthier" should look like, and gets very disrespectful of the decisions we want to make for ourselves. For instance they may push the norm "No one should be hearing voices or seeing visions," but then some people formed the Hearing Voices Network because they felt it was better for them to learn from each other about how to live with their voice-hearing. And it's very common for a psychiatrist to look at a conflict between several people, and treat it as a problem within the least-privileged person - ie, they call a lot of Black people "paranoid" for speaking up about racism, and they drug up a lot of kids for having different ideas and goals than their parents and teachers.

There are a few spaces that come to mind that sound kind of like what you're talking about! There are peer-run respites for people in crisis in the States that are free, house-like rather than hospital-like, and all-voluntary - anyone can leave at will. The staff are other people who've struggled with extreme states, not clinicians. But wanting clinicians and specialists for some things makes sense too, and yeah having all of those people be reviewed, hired and fired by the patients / service-users would be ideal...

Things like 24-7 respite houses are more resource-heavy, like they require more funds either privately or from the state. However to "stay funded" they're often limited in what they can do to resist the carcerial state and capital. Judi Chamberlin and other activists from the psychiatric survivor / consumer / ex-patient movement talked about how, in c/s/x support spaces that got "taken over" by clinicians or state agencies, the deeper critiques and transformative goals they had withered away. Other "lighter" stuff is easier to set up with a few friends or allies, without institutional approval, like a weekly support space, circulating reviews of local practitioners, etc. When people have done stuff like this before like mad pride or mental patients union, they've often had less to do with "mental health services" and more to do with anti-authoritarian social movements. Both have value!

If I was looking at starting something locally, I might check to see if there are any organizations of the homeless, harm-reduction efforts by illicit drug users, or such nearby to reach out to for input, like on what their needs are? Youth liberation activists? Prison abolitionists? I think it's important to keep an eye on the intersectional ways the mental health system's hurt different groups of people, because it's complicated and I've seen women and people of color get talked over in a few different psych-survivor/ex-patient spaces. Even just getting a few people who can take turns with facilitator roles can make a big difference in avoiding burnout and making groups less personality-based. Before covid, libraries and ywcas seemed like good free meeting places sometimes, everything's different now, outdoor gatherings work in the warmer weather but yeah it's mostly the tyranny of zoom now...

Another example of poor and working-class people organizing independently on a shoestring budget is ADAPT which is a group of disabled people fighting for better healthcare, accessable housing, etc.

Let me know if I should post more info about any of this, I don't want to post linkspam here unsolicited. :)

Hi I can't reply to much of your post points because the dark theme makes it impossible to read most of it. What I could read sounded interesting.

 

[GoneGoneGone]

I haven't read the whole thread but I think it would be a nice idea to maybe compile testimonials of people's problems and the absurd responses/lack of help they've received from MHP. It could be published somewhere as a manifesto...

 

[sufferingalways]

I haven't read the whole thread but I think it would be a nice idea to maybe compile testimonials of people's problems and the absurd responses/lack of help they've received from MHP. It could be published somewhere as a manifesto...

Damn! Get out of my head lol. I would also like to do this. Could we / How could we collaborate without giving private info, as the sites safety guide suggests?

Hi, I've been meaning to answer this but I've been having trouble focusing!

Curious, which problems in mental health care do you most want to draw focus to?

For me I try to break it down like this:

There's both the problem where they call people "MORE SICK" to force them into inpatient units, section us for suicide attempts or for disagreeing with them, and the problem where they call people "LESS SICK" to push them out of services, to call them "fit for work" and cut off their benefits which does push people to suicide!

(Kind of similar: The Autistic community has talked for years about how "Functioning Labels" are used in a similar way: "They call us low-functioning to deny us our rights, they call us high-functioning to deny us support.")

Also, the mental health system has a lot of pre-packaged ideas about what "healthier" should look like, and gets very disrespectful of the decisions we want to make for ourselves. For instance they may push the norm "No one should be hearing voices or seeing visions," but then some people formed the Hearing Voices Network because they felt it was better for them to learn from each other about how to live with their voice-hearing. And it's very common for a psychiatrist to look at a conflict between several people, and treat it as a problem within the least-privileged person - ie, they call a lot of Black people "paranoid" for speaking up about racism, and they drug up a lot of kids for having different ideas and goals than their parents and teachers.

There are a few spaces that come to mind that sound kind of like what you're talking about! There are peer-run respites for people in crisis in the States that are free, house-like rather than hospital-like, and all-voluntary - anyone can leave at will. The staff are other people who've struggled with extreme states, not clinicians. But wanting clinicians and specialists for some things makes sense too, and yeah having all of those people be reviewed, hired and fired by the patients / service-users would be ideal...

Things like 24-7 respite houses are more resource-heavy, like they require more funds either privately or from the state. However to "stay funded" they're often limited in what they can do to resist the carcerial state and capital. Judi Chamberlin and other activists from the psychiatric survivor / consumer / ex-patient movement talked about how, in c/s/x support spaces that got "taken over" by clinicians or state agencies, the deeper critiques and transformative goals they had withered away. Other "lighter" stuff is easier to set up with a few friends or allies, without institutional approval, like a weekly support space, circulating reviews of local practitioners, etc. When people have done stuff like this before like mad pride or mental patients union, they've often had less to do with "mental health services" and more to do with anti-authoritarian social movements. Both have value!

If I was looking at starting something locally, I might check to see if there are any organizations of the homeless, harm-reduction efforts by illicit drug users, or such nearby to reach out to for input, like on what their needs are? Youth liberation activists? Prison abolitionists? I think it's important to keep an eye on the intersectional ways the mental health system's hurt different groups of people, because it's complicated and I've seen women and people of color get talked over in a few different psych-survivor/ex-patient spaces. Even just getting a few people who can take turns with facilitator roles can make a big difference in avoiding burnout and making groups less personality-based. Before covid, libraries and ywcas seemed like good free meeting places sometimes, everything's different now, outdoor gatherings work in the warmer weather but yeah it's mostly the tyranny of zoom now...

Another example of poor and working-class people organizing independently on a shoestring budget is ADAPT which is a group of disabled people fighting for better healthcare, accessable housing, etc.

Let me know if I should post more info about any of this, I don't want to post linkspam here unsolicited. :)

I've copied and paste to read your message
Wow I like how you think and how you put things across
Psychiatry example you use .. I feel that was done when I was using services
I have also spent time on a psych ward though that feels like a lifetime ago now.
Some parts were okay but some people on the staff made life difficult. Somehow there was another staff member who cared enough to reduce those problems so maybe I caught a fortunate staff when I was an in patient.

Damn! Get out of my head lol. I would also like to do this. Could we / How could we collaborate without giving private info, as the sites safety guide suggests?


I've copied and paste to read your message
Wow I like how you think and how you put things across
Psychiatrist example you use .. I feel that was done when I was using care coordinator services. She was shit. Never made notes. Turned out to libel me. Ffs

I have also spent time on a psych ward though that feels like a lifetime ago now.
Some parts were okay but some people on the staff made life difficult. Somehow there was another staff member who cared enough to reduce those problems so maybe I caught a fortunate staff when I was an in patient.

Hi, I've been meaning to answer this but I've been having trouble focusing!

Curious, which problems in mental health care do you most want to draw focus to?

For me I try to break it down like this:

There's both the problem where they call people "MORE SICK" to force them into inpatient units, section us for suicide attempts or for disagreeing with them, and the problem where they call people "LESS SICK" to push them out of services, to call them "fit for work" and cut off their benefits which does push people to suicide!

(Kind of similar: The Autistic community has talked for years about how "Functioning Labels" are used in a similar way: "They call us low-functioning to deny us our rights, they call us high-functioning to deny us support.")

Also, the mental health system has a lot of pre-packaged ideas about what "healthier" should look like, and gets very disrespectful of the decisions we want to make for ourselves. For instance they may push the norm "No one should be hearing voices or seeing visions," but then some people formed the Hearing Voices Network because they felt it was better for them to learn from each other about how to live with their voice-hearing. And it's very common for a psychiatrist to look at a conflict between several people, and treat it as a problem within the least-privileged person - ie, they call a lot of Black people "paranoid" for speaking up about racism, and they drug up a lot of kids for having different ideas and goals than their parents and teachers.

There are a few spaces that come to mind that sound kind of like what you're talking about! There are peer-run respites for people in crisis in the States that are free, house-like rather than hospital-like, and all-voluntary - anyone can leave at will. The staff are other people who've struggled with extreme states, not clinicians. But wanting clinicians and specialists for some things makes sense too, and yeah having all of those people be reviewed, hired and fired by the patients / service-users would be ideal...

Things like 24-7 respite houses are more resource-heavy, like they require more funds either privately or from the state. However to "stay funded" they're often limited in what they can do to resist the carcerial state and capital. Judi Chamberlin and other activists from the psychiatric survivor / consumer / ex-patient movement talked about how, in c/s/x support spaces that got "taken over" by clinicians or state agencies, the deeper critiques and transformative goals they had withered away. Other "lighter" stuff is easier to set up with a few friends or allies, without institutional approval, like a weekly support space, circulating reviews of local practitioners, etc. When people have done stuff like this before like mad pride or mental patients union, they've often had less to do with "mental health services" and more to do with anti-authoritarian social movements. Both have value!

If I was looking at starting something locally, I might check to see if there are any organizations of the homeless, harm-reduction efforts by illicit drug users, or such nearby to reach out to for input, like on what their needs are? Youth liberation activists? Prison abolitionists? I think it's important to keep an eye on the intersectional ways the mental health system's hurt different groups of people, because it's complicated and I've seen women and people of color get talked over in a few different psych-survivor/ex-patient spaces. Even just getting a few people who can take turns with facilitator roles can make a big difference in avoiding burnout and making groups less personality-based. Before covid, libraries and ywcas seemed like good free meeting places sometimes, everything's different now, outdoor gatherings work in the warmer weather but yeah it's mostly the tyranny of zoom now...

Another example of poor and working-class people organizing independently on a shoestring budget is ADAPT which is a group of disabled people fighting for better healthcare, accessable housing, etc.

Let me know if I should post more info about any of this, I don't want to post linkspam here unsolicited. :)

I just read it all my notes app, and wow you make good points. Had me nodding a lot.
Where are ADAPT based?

 

[Ronnie99]

This is a great idea!
the system has to change. Part of the issue I believe with the mental health system is that nobody actually cares. It's only a job to them all. You can throw millions of pounds at the system but if the people who are supposed to help just want to get through their day then it will never improve.

 

[NeverEndingProblem]

The quality of professional mental health care is dire, and dramatic improvement is urgent.
Unfortunately this improvement isn't going to be delivered by organisations like the NHS or governments.
Complaining makes no difference.

I'd like to get people's view on the following idea and to sense check me.
I have spoken to a few people about it in PM.

Do you think it would be possible to start an informal grassroots movement in order to bring about an improvement in mental health services, and to actively put something together to bring about that change.
I don't mean lobby government, or submit coordinate complaints.

I mean start a movement of like minded supporters who want to see mental health care being delivered AS IT SHOULD BE.

I have thought about this:

1. Doing the ground work to start a movement, raising awareness of the problems with mental health care.
2. Once we have traction, start a campaign on gofundme (moderators: I am not asking anybody on this site, or indeed elsewhere, for money. I'm just discussing an idea).
3. Use money from gofundme to finance the purchase of a beautiful mid-sized hotel in an idyllic location, refurbish the hotel into a stunning, modern mental health recovery unit. Not for people who may be a danger to others, but for suicidal people who need time out and able to access 1st class help but who have been failed by 'the system'.
I'd hand pick staff myself, in part by asking deep questions in order to get to know how they think and process information: are the fundamentally bureaucrats or can they think for themselves without the need of the flowchart.
For example I'd ask them to design the basics of a treatment process, but then ask how someone who falls outside process in some way will be treated.
Essentially, the community coming together to build a 1st class unit that delivers gold standard care.

I am so fed up of the same old shit in mental health care.
It won't get better if people don't do anything themselves.

What do you think?

I'll be honest bro. Terrible Idea but your heart is in the right place.

edit: Not a terrible idea because I've had this idea myself (Im Bipolar aswell), but realistically - most 'normal' non -suicidal people dont understand the needs of crazy people. Also, this is a really expensive idea! perhaps Jeff Bezos can pay.

 

[sufferingalways]

This is a great idea!
the system has to change. Part of the issue I believe with the mental health system is that nobody actually cares. It's only a job to them all. You can throw millions of pounds at the system but if the people who are supposed to help just want to get through their day then it will never improve.

You're right, sadly they don't give a shit. Ps I like your avatar.

 

[noaccount]

Hi @sufferingalways , could highlighting the text help with that? If not I can edit...

@GoneGoneGone Yes there's such a need for that. Both the violence/coercion and the neglect/exclusion.
There are a lot of disabled people's groups who've been protesting mistreatment (like here) who might also be interested in that, and sometimes in addition to posting that kind of stuff online people will try to do a group delivery of their letter/report to decisionmakers they consider responsible, for visibility and such...

I wish I had a full-text of "On Our Own" to share, here's a writeup that gives some good overview of Chamberlin's life-work. She and Irit Shimrat did a lot of great history and theorizing about Mental Patients' Union / Liberation Front and Mad Pride activism.

(A really similar thing happened with domestic violence shelters! Originally set up by women who were fighting gendered oppression more broadly, they changed drastically in nature when they became more associated with law enforcement. A lot of criticism of this, has come from women who can't safely interact with police, especially in Black and Native communities, and need alternatives not controlled by the State.)

More recent examples of medical mistreatment survivors making safe space for each other outside the system include the MOMS movement, and the archives of the former Asheville Radical Mental Health collective.

Check out Mindful Occupation! There are kinda similar models used by Food Not Bombs (How-to!) And general info here on decision-making in affinity groups of people with common goals (How-to!)

If you do want to reach out to anyone who's involved in running alternative/voluntary respites, maybe pick their brains, there's a directory of various respite houses here:

Peer Respite Directory — Peer Respites

www.peerrespite.com

And the Soteria Network which is also pretty critical of the psychiatric system:

Soteria Brighton

soteriabrighton.co.uk

Soteria Network - Humane, non-coercive mental health services

Soteria Network promotes the development of drug-free and minimum medication therapeutic environments for people experiencing ‘psychosis’ or extreme states.

www.soterianetwork.org.uk

 

[sufferingalways]

Hi @sufferingalways , could highlighting the text help with that? If not I can edit...

@GoneGoneGone Yes there's such a need for that. Both the violence/coercion and the neglect/exclusion.
There are a lot of disabled people's groups who've been protesting mistreatment (like here) who might also be interested in that, and sometimes in addition to posting that kind of stuff online people will try to do a group delivery of their letter/report to decisionmakers they consider responsible, for visibility and such...

I wish I had a full-text of "On Our Own" to share, here's a writeup that gives some good overview of Chamberlin's life-work. She and Irit Shimrat did a lot of great history and theorizing about Mental Patients' Union / Liberation Front and Mad Pride activism.

(A really similar thing happened with domestic violence shelters! Originally set up by women who were fighting gendered oppression more broadly, they changed drastically in nature when they became more associated with law enforcement. A lot of criticism of this, has come from women who can't safely interact with police, especially in Black and Native communities, and need alternatives not controlled by the State.)

More recent examples of medical mistreatment survivors making safe space for each other outside the system include the MOMS movement, and the archives of the former Asheville Radical Mental Health collective.

Check out Mindful Occupation! There are kinda similar models used by Food Not Bombs (How-to!) And general info here on decision-making in affinity groups of people with common goals (How-to!)

If you do want to reach out to anyone who's involved in running alternative/voluntary respites, maybe pick their brains, there's a directory of various respite houses here:

Peer Respite Directory — Peer Respites

www.peerrespite.com

And the Soteria Network which is also pretty critical of the psychiatric system:

Soteria Brighton

soteriabrighton.co.uk

Soteria Network - Humane, non-coercive mental health services

Soteria Network promotes the development of drug-free and minimum medication therapeutic environments for people experiencing ‘psychosis’ or extreme states.

www.soterianetwork.org.uk

Hi thank you for kind offer, I did manage to read the full text, as I copied and paste into a notes app (apps have been helpful in so many ways)
you must have missed my update but thank you, much appreciated.
Ps, I like the points you made after that.

 

[noaccount]

Yeah I just saved a draft and then edited/posted it before reading all the new posts

 

[sufferingalways]

Yeah I just saved a draft and then edited/posted it before reading all the new posts

No worries. How are you?

 

[Aimed]

How can the 'mental health' system improve when the longest-trained highly-paid people so often miss the most basic things about conditions. Including things caused by themselves.

Personal experience of some mh issues doesn't necessarily overcome those problems and can bring other problems.

 

[sufferingalways]

Hello forum people, I know there is interest, is anyone interested in putting some kind of manifesto together with people's poor experiences documented?

If /when I can get my sleep back I would then happily be a person to make plans and DM people for responses (who were happy to be anonymously helping). Sorry for my clumsy words. Brain fog.