Alucard

Alucard

Wizard
Feb 8, 2019
606



1. After a long space of time I have seen your beloved Pompeii.[1] I was thus brought again face to face with the days of my youth. And it seemed to me that I could still do, nay, had only done a short time ago, all the things which I did there when a young man. 2. We have sailed past life, Lucilius, as if we were on a voyage, and just as when at sea, to quote from our poet Vergil,


Lands and towns are left astern,[2]

even so, on this journey where time flies with the greatest speed, we put below the horizon first our boyhood and then our youth, and then the space which lies between young manhood and middle age and borders on both, and next, the best years of old age itself. Last of all, we begin to sight the general bourne of the race of man. 3. Fools that we are, we believe this bourne to be a dangerous reef; but it is the harbour, where we must some day put in, which we may never refuse to enter; and if a man has reached this harbour in his early years, he has no more right to complain than a sailor who has made a quick voyage. For some sailors, as you know, are tricked and held back by sluggish winds, and grow weary and sick of the slow-moving calm; while others are carried quickly home by steady gales.

4. You may consider that the same thing happens to us: life has carried some men with the greatest rapidity to the harbour, the harbour they were bound to reach even if they tarried on the way, while others it has fretted and harassed. To such a life, as you are aware, one should not always cling. For mere living is not a good, but living well. Accordingly, the wise man will live as long as he ought, not as long as he can.[3] 5. He will mark in what place, with whom, and how he is to conduct his existence, and what he is about to do. He always reflects concerning the quality, and not the quantity, of his life. As soon as there are many events in his life that give him trouble and disturb his peace of mind, he sets himself free. And this privilege is his, not only when the crisis is upon him, but as soon as Fortune seems to be playing him false; then he looks about carefully and sees whether he ought, or ought not, to end his life on that account. He holds that it makes no difference to him whether his taking-off be natural or self-inflicted, whether it comes later or earlier. He does not regard it with fear, as if it were a great loss; for no man can lose very much when but a driblet remains. 6. It is not a question of dying earlier or later, but of dying well or ill. And dying well means escape from the danger of living ill.

That is why I regard the words of the well-known Rhodian[4] as most unmanly. This person was thrown into a cage by his tyrant, and fed there like some wild animal. And when a certain man advised him to end his life by fasting, he replied: "A man may hope for anything while he has life." 7. This may be true; but life is not to be purchased at any price. No matter how great or how well-assured certain rewards may be I shall not strive to attain them at the price of a shameful confession of weakness. Shall I reflect that Fortune has all power over one who lives, rather than reflect that she has no power over one who knows how to die? 8. There are times, nevertheless, when a man, even though certain death impends and he knows that torture is in store for him, will refrain from lending a hand to his own punishment, to himself, however, he would lend a hand.[5] It is folly to die through fear of dying. The executioner is upon you; wait for him. Why anticipate him? Why assume the management of a cruel task that belongs to another? Do you grudge your executioner his privilege, or do you merely relieve him of his task? 9. Socrates might have ended his life by fasting; he might have died by starvation rather than by poison. But instead of this he spent thirty days in prison awaiting death, not with the idea "everything may happen," or "so long an interval has room for many a hope" but in order that he might show himself submissive to the laws[6] and make the last moments of Socrates an edification to his friends. What would have been more foolish than to scorn death, and yet fear poison?[7]

10. Scribonia, a woman of the stern old type, was an aunt of Drusus Libo.[8] This young man was as stupid as he was well born, with higher ambitions than anyone could have been expected to entertain in that epoch, or a man like himself in any epoch at all. When Libo had been carried away ill from the senate-house in his litter, though certainly with a very scanty train of followers, – for all his kinsfolk undutifully deserted him, when he was no longer a criminal but a corpse, – he began to consider whether he should commit suicide, or await death. Scribonia said to him: "What pleasure do you find in doing another man's work?" But he did not follow her advice; he laid violent hands upon himself. And he was right, after all; for when a man is doomed to die in two or three days at his enemy's pleasure, he is really "doing another man's work" if he continues to live.

11. No general statement can be made, therefore, with regard to the question whether, when a power beyond our control threatens us with death, we should anticipate death, or await it. For there are many arguments to pull us in either direction. If one death is accompanied by torture, and the other is simple and easy, why not snatch the latter? Just as I shall select my ship when I am about to go on a voyage or my house when I propose to take a residence, so I shall choose my death when I am about to depart from life. 12. Moreover, just as a long-drawn out life does not necessarily mean a better one, so a long-drawn-out death necessarily means a worse one. There is no occasion when the soul should be humoured more than at the moment of death. Let the soul depart as it feels itself impelled to go;[9] whether it seeks the sword, or the halter, or some draught that attacks the veins, let it proceed and burst the bonds of its slavery. Every man ought to make his life acceptable to others besides himself, but his death to himself alone. The best form of death is the one we like. 13. Men are foolish who reflect thus: "One person will say that my conduct was not brave enough; another, that I was too headstrong; a third, that a particular kind of death would have betokened more spirit." What you should really reflect is: "I have under consideration a purpose with which the talk of men has no concern!" Your sole aim should be to escape from Fortune as speedily as possible; otherwise, there will be no lack of persons who will think ill of what you have done.

14. You can find men who have gone so far as to profess wisdom and yet maintain that one should not offer violence to one's own life, and hold it accursed for a man to be the means of his own destruction; we should wait, say they, for the end decreed by nature. But one who says this does not see that he is shutting off the path to freedom. The best thing which eternal law ever ordained was that it allowed to us one entrance into life, but many exits. 15. Must I await the cruelty either of disease or of man, when I can depart through the midst of torture, and shake off my troubles? This is the one reason why we cannot complain of life: it keeps no one against his will. Humanity is well situated, because no man is unhappy except by his own fault. Live, if you so desire; if not, you may return to the place whence you came. 16. You have often been cupped in order to relieve headaches.[10] You have had veins cut for the purpose of reducing your weight. If you would pierce your heart, a gaping wound is not necessary; a lancet will open the way to that great freedom, and tranquillity can be purchased at the cost of a pin-prick.

What, then, is it which makes us lazy and sluggish? None of us reflects that some day he must depart from this house of life; just so old tenants are kept from moving by fondness for a particular place and by custom, even in spite of ill-treatment. 17. Would you be free from the restraint of your body? Live in it as if you were about to leave it. Keep thinking of the fact that some day you will be deprived of this tenure; then you will be more brave against the necessity of departing. But how will a man take thought of his own end, if he craves all things without end? 18. And yet there is nothing so essential for us to consider. For our training in other things is perhaps superfluous. Our souls have been made ready to meet poverty; but our riches have held out. We have armed ourselves to scorn pain; but we have had the good fortune to possess sound and healthy bodies, and so have never been forced to put this virtue to the test. We have taught ourselves to endure bravely the loss of those we love; but Fortune has preserved to us all whom we loved. 19. It is in this one matter only that the day will come which will require us to test our training.

You need not think that none but great men have had the strength to burst the bonds of human servitude; you need not believe that this cannot be done except by a Cato, – Cato, who with his hand dragged forth the spirit which he had not succeeded in freeing by the sword. Nay, men of the meanest lot in life have by a mighty impulse escaped to safety, and when they were not allowed to die at their own convenience, or to suit themselves in their choice of the instruments of death, they have snatched up whatever was lying ready to hand, and by sheer strength have turned objects which were by nature harmless into weapons of their own. 20. For example, there was lately in a training-school for wild-beast gladiators a German, who was making ready for the morning exhibition; he withdrew in order to relieve himself, – the only thing which he was allowed to do in secret and without the presence of a guard. While so engaged, he seized the stick of wood, tipped with a sponge, which was devoted to the vilest uses, and stuffed it, just as it was, down his throat; thus he blocked up his windpipe, and choked the breath from his body. That was truly to insult death! 21. Yes, indeed; it was not a very elegant or becoming way to die; but what is more foolish than to be over-nice about dying? What a brave fellow! He surely deserved to be allowed to choose his fate! How bravely he would have wielded a sword! With what courage he would have hurled himself into the depths of the sea, or down a precipice! Cut off from resources on every hand, he yet found a way to furnish himself with death, and with a weapon for death. Hence you can understand that nothing but the will need postpone death. Let each man judge the deed of this most zealous fellow as he likes, provided we agree on this point, – that the foulest death is preferable to the fairest slavery.

22. Inasmuch as I began with an illustration taken from humble life, I shall keep on with that sort. For men will make greater demands upon themselves, if they see that death can be despised even by the most despised class of men. The Catos, the Scipios, and the others whose names we are wont to hear with admiration, we regard as beyond the sphere of imitation; but I shall now prove to you that the virtue of which I speak is found as frequently in the gladiators' training-school as among the leaders in a civil war. 23. Lately a gladiator, who had been sent forth to the morning exhibition, was being conveyed in a cart along with the other prisoners;[11] nodding as if he were heavy with sleep, he let his head fall over so far that it was caught in the spokes; then he kept his body in position long enough to break his neck by the revolution of the wheel. So he made his escape by means of the very wagon which was carrying him to his punishment.

24. When a man desires to burst forth and take his departure, nothing stands in his way. It is an open space in which Nature guards us. When our plight is such as to permit it, we may look about us for an easy exit. If you have many opportunities ready to hand, by means of which you may liberate yourself, you may make a selection and think over the best way of gaining freedom; but if a chance is hard to find, instead of the best, snatch the next best, even though it be something unheard of, something new. If you do not lack the courage, you will not lack the cleverness, to die. 25. See how even the lowest class of slave, when suffering goads him on, is aroused and discovers a way to deceive even the most watchful guards! He is truly great who not only has given himself the order to die, but has also found the means.

I have promised you, however, some more illustrations drawn from the same games. 26. During the second event in a sham sea-fight one of the barbarians sank deep into his own throat a spear which had been given him for use against his foe. "Why, oh why," he said, "have I not long ago escaped from all this torture and all this mockery? Why should I be armed and yet wait for death to come?" This exhibition was all the more striking because of the lesson men learn from it that dying is more honourable than killing.

27. What, then? If such a spirit is possessed by abandoned and dangerous men, shall it not be possessed also by those who have trained themselves to meet such contingencies by long meditation, and by reason, the mistress of all things? It is reason which teaches us that fate has various ways of approach, but the same end, and that it makes no difference at what point the inevitable event begins. 28. Reason, too, advises us to die, if we may, according to our taste; if this cannot be, she advises us to die according to our ability, and to seize upon whatever means shall offer itself for doing violence to ourselves. It is criminal to "live by robbery";[12] but, on the other hand, it is most noble to "die by robbery." Farewell.
 
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woxihuanni

woxihuanni

Illuminated
Aug 19, 2019
3,299
Indeed the entire fairy tale that passes for morals in this age would be rewritten if we could bring ourselves to accept that, if everyone was ready to die than be a slave, slavery could not exist in any shape and form. It is this willingness to have life at whatever cost that allows anybody to put a cost on it.

What passes for empowerment these days is just slinking away and dying inside.
 
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Alucard

Alucard

Wizard
Feb 8, 2019
606
" A man who has learned how to die has unlearned how to be a slave. "
Montaigne, Essays
 
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Sunset Limited

Sunset Limited

I believe in Sunset Limited
Jul 29, 2019
1,250
I am 42 years old. I've only been in slavery for two years. I'm a musician. my life and time always belonged to me. My friend said, "You live the life most people dream of." Still, I lived a shitty life. I have never seen anyone really happy around me anyway. I wish I had died 20 years ago. If it was as easy as pushing a button ... Trying to smile in hell? That's what most people do. I don't wanna fight with hell.

Translated by Google
 
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Dantec

Dantec

Le sacrifice c'est la mort vaincue.
Sep 17, 2019
24
In my opinion, philosophizing is learning to die.

Socratic philosophers, philosophers in their generality, are the men of this earth who are least afraid of dying, and some philosophers consider suicide as the ultimate freedom. Well appointed, she is.

"There is only one really serious philosophical problem: it is suicide. To judge that life is worth or not worth living, is to answer the fundamental question of philosophy." (Albert Camus)
 
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Alucard

Alucard

Wizard
Feb 8, 2019
606
"Aucun autocrate n'a disposé d'un pouvoir comparable à celui dont dispose un pauvre bougre qui envisage de se tuer. "
(Google trad : No autocrat has a power comparable to that available to a poor fellow who plans to kill himself.)
Cioran, De l'inconvénient d'être né
 
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Dantec

Dantec

Le sacrifice c'est la mort vaincue.
Sep 17, 2019
24
J'ai dévoré De l'inconvénient d'être né, excellente citation qui donne de la grandeur à ce geste si mal jugé, je ne reprendrais ici qu'une simple phrase de Cioran:"Un livre est un suicide différé."
 
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Alucard

Alucard

Wizard
Feb 8, 2019
606
"Qui ne voit pas la mort en rose est affecté d'un daltonisme du coeur." "Mourir, c'est prouver que l'on connaît son intérêt." (Ibid.)
 
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A

a.h

Specialist
Jun 19, 2019
356
In my opinion, philosophizing is learning to die.

Socratic philosophers, philosophers in their generality, are the men of this earth who are least afraid of dying, and some philosophers consider suicide as the ultimate freedom. Well appointed, she is.

"There is only one really serious philosophical problem: it is suicide. To judge that life is worth or not worth living, is to answer the fundamental question of philosophy." (Albert Camus)

If we stop caring of anyone's thoughts and feelings everything seems so much more simple.

We all live and die. Some just leave before others.

In the end the result is the same.
 
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Painpleasure

Painpleasure

Student
Apr 9, 2019
108
Suicide seems deceiving simple. Such a seemingly simple decision requires insurmountable effort to execute.
 
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Dantec

Dantec

Le sacrifice c'est la mort vaincue.
Sep 17, 2019
24
If we stop caring of anyone's thoughts and feelings everything seems so much more simple.

We all live and die. Some just leave before others.

In the end the result is the same.

Certainly, on this point I totally agree with you, the thoughts and feelings of anyone, with ours understood, of course, certainly flatters the instinct of survival.

On the notion of simplicity for the act of self-destruction in itself, you touch a point that depends on the person, the human being is so complex, the Greeks and not just Socrates had a motto "know thyself", this is the only way to get rid of the fear of death, in my opinion, and to be able to approach the edges of determinism.

We have the will to roll our rock while knowing that one day it will crush us, to be master of its destiny, according to me, it is our capacity to be able to choose the day or it will fall on us this famous rock, that makes the difference.
 
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a.h

Specialist
Jun 19, 2019
356
People should generally stop caring about others thoughts and listen to themselves. So much of the media and news is toxic and about hate and fear and people fighting over who is better.

Every time I read news and media or forget to put extra strict browsing option I really wish I was of some other, better species.

I believe that suicide for those who don't have overpowering illness is so high because of this modern society. People don't just see life on this earth as a better option.
 
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Dantec

Dantec

Le sacrifice c'est la mort vaincue.
Sep 17, 2019
24
@a.h, for my part, I do not look at the media for a very long time, but I read a certain press oriented at selected times, television is at the service of the powers of this world, it is a dish in pre-chewed sauce, and infective, which serves as food for the brains of the people.

Stoicism gives the human being a certain freedom, unlike "modern society", as you say, which will dehumanize us in the near future.
 
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É

Élégie

Student
Sep 24, 2019
143
"Aucun autocrate n'a disposé d'un pouvoir comparable à celui dont dispose un pauvre bougre qui envisage de se tuer. "
(Google trad : No autocrat has a power comparable to that available to a poor fellow who plans to kill himself.)
Cioran, De l'inconvénient d'être né
J'ai dévoré De l'inconvénient d'être né, excellente citation qui donne de la grandeur à ce geste si mal jugé, je ne reprendrais ici qu'une simple phrase de Cioran:"Un livre est un suicide différé."
Drôle de hasard ; je suis justement en train de lire De l'inconvénient d'être né de Cioran. J'ai également débuté la lecture de Bréviaire du Chaos de Caraco, ainsi que Le mythe de Sisyphe de Camus. Avez-vous d'autres suggestions littéraires à me faire?
 
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A

a.h

Specialist
Jun 19, 2019
356
I mean I grew up before Internet. Nothing was given for others to read if it wasn't decent or certainly published. After Internet most in it is trash and since people loved that then trash magazines were made (talking bad about others in mean gossip). I don't get that culture.i
@a.h, for my part, I do not look at the media for a very long time, but I read a certain press oriented at selected times, television is at the service of the powers of this world, it is a dish in pre-chewed sauce, and infective, which serves as food for the brains of the people.

Stoicism gives the human being a certain freedom, unlike "modern society", as you say, which will dehumanize us in the near future.

I don't follow any of it much either since too much toxic staff and won't be there long to care about it either. I also hate how everyone are shocked about the worst suffering in this world they see in the real news and sad about it but most can't give even one dime to charity to stop it. If everyone would give 1$ it wouldn't affect our lifestyle but we could change many of those things.

But mostly I am happy and content knowing that I am free to choose.
I am lucky to have had experienced death and wonderfull nde. There was no pain and negative things in either so I have nothing to fear of them.

I can't thin of any for that.

Drôle de hasard ; je suis justement en train de lire De l'inconvénient d'être né de Cioran. J'ai également débuté la lecture de Bréviaire du Chaos de Caraco, ainsi que Le mythe de Sisyphe de Camus. Avez-vous d'autres suggestions littéraires à me faire?
 
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Dantec

Dantec

Le sacrifice c'est la mort vaincue.
Sep 17, 2019
24
Drôle de hasard ; je suis justement en train de lire De l'inconvénient d'être né de Cioran. J'ai également débuté la lecture de Bréviaire du Chaos de Caraco, ainsi que Le mythe de Sisyphe de Camus. Avez-vous d'autres suggestions littéraires à me faire?

Pas simple de conseiller un auteur en particulier, mais je vais simplement te donner quelques noms importants à mes yeux, bien entendu, mon pseudo a trahi que Maurice G Dantec est mon écrivain fétiche, Michel Houellebecq "Les Particules élémentaires" si tu dois en lire qu'un seul, c'est celui-là, après un trio indissociable si tu aimes la philosophie : (Gilles Deleuze, Félix Guattari, et Michel Foucault), Jean-Paul Sartre, Albert Camus, Michel Serres...la liste est tellement longue, juste pour les auteurs Français, tu as ici quelques pépites, je te rajoute un maitre de l'écriture selon moi, Louis-Ferdinand Céline, et je laisse Alucard te donner sa liste d'auteurs Français et/ou étrangers, Baruch Spinoza et Arthur Schopenhauer seront en bonne place, selon moi, à la lecture de ses anciens posts.
 
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a.h

Specialist
Jun 19, 2019
356
Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 5.29

As you intend to live when you are gone out, so it is in your power to live here. But if men do not permit you, then get away out of life, yet do so as if you were suffering no harm.
The house is smoky, and I quit it. Why do you think that this is any trouble?
But so long as nothing of the kind drives me out, I remain, I am free, and no man shallhinder me from doing what I choose; and I choose to do what is according to the nature of the rational and social animal.
—Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 5 (tr Long)

His thoughts of death:
"Is any man afraid of change? What can take place without change? What then is more pleasing or more suitable to the universal nature? And canst thou take a bath unless the wood undergoes a change? And canst thou be nourished, unless the food undergoes a change? And can anything else that is useful be accomplished without change?"

He had a brilliant mind of many things including death.
Stoics thought that the nature of death is not negative or evil. It is just as natural, important and good as birth in its "essence". And that is true. Everyone would suffer greatly of hunger, diseases etc. if people couldn't die. So in a way it's a blessing to life on Earth.
 
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OverItAll

Member
Aug 31, 2019
51
Stoic Philosophy has been helping me a lot lately with that myriad things that get me down, depress me, and make me hate the world. I'm finding it to be a good channel for all that negativity inside. I still feel like topping myself, often, but it's helping me maintain a holding pattern.

I don't know if that's a good thing. Am I holding on for some kind of improvement in my mental and emotional stability and well being? Or maybe this deep funk, this crushing malaise will become the new normal? Either way, I'm still here, keeping on keeping on! That's gotta be something, right?
 
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