Discussion Self-induced heart attack via adrenaline (bearshaek)

[DetachedDreamer97]

I feel like this is only going to work for people with pre-existing heart conditions...

Yes, that's exactly why you condition your body beforehand.

 

[throwaway123]

Yes, that's exactly why you condition your body beforehand.

So I can induce an heart illness?

Or do you mean condition the heart?

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

So I can induce an heart illness?

Or do you mean condition the heart?

Condition the heart; through a combination of heat stress and acute sleep deprivation (3-5+ days).

 

[throwaway123]

Condition the heart; through a combination of heat stress and acute sleep deprivation (3-5+ days).

That sounds horrible and difficult. Do you think you're capable of doing that?

 

[IfHeDiesHeDies]

That sounds horrible and difficult. Do you think you're capable of doing that?

What is meant by "heat stress"? Does it entail being in and out of saunas for 3-5 days whilst not sleeping. That sounds a horrible way to induce a heart attack? One would probably faint before a heart attack happens.

 

[IfHeDiesHeDies]

Condition the heart; through a combination of heat stress and acute sleep deprivation (3-5+ days).

Wouldn't it be easier to just not sleep for 7 days or so ? people die from sleep deprivation alone.

 

[satou]

My latest attempt resulted in my heart rate rising up to 150 in 15 minutes. At that level, I became all sweaty and was shaking.

This is called exercising. I sometimes do squats for 30 minutes, heartrate goes up to 170. Does nothing but lower my resting heartrate (and increase size of my quads). The heart is the muscle with greatest endurance. It can easily go up to 250 bpm before you are really in trouble and it won't do that naturally. I seriously doubt you will get a heart attack that will kill you before you simply pass out from lack of energy / oxygen.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

Wouldn't it be easier to just not sleep for 7 days or so ? people die from sleep deprivation alone.

No. Your body will shut off after a certain point.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

That sounds horrible and difficult. Do you think you're capable of doing that?

Dunno honestly. I probably could if I'm determined enough.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

What is meant by "heat stress"? Does it entail being in and out of saunas for 3-5 days whilst not sleeping. That sounds a horrible way to induce a heart attack? One would probably faint before a heart attack happens.

By heat stress I mean being exposed to hot temperatures... perhaps temperatures above 80 or whatever temperature you're used to before you get exhausted. Doesn't require being exposed to a hot environment for days. The three-five days are just for sleep deprivation. The interesting thing about it is that sleep deprivation can screw up body temperature regulation as it lowers sweating. When this combined with scopolamine or other anticholinergics this will further amplify the effects as that also inhibits sweating. This isn't exactly the main way to induce the heart attack, but it improves the chances. The main mechanism is the adrenaline and valsalva maneuver combination. And if it doesn't cause the heart attack, the valsalva maneuver will greatly increase intracranial pressure to the point it will cause the blood vessels to burst, resulting in a subarachnoid hemorrhage. Should that happen, this will cause an adrenergic storm, causing your heart rate and blood pressure to go up to dangerous levels, eventually killing you.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenergic_storm
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/469858
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4109109/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subarachnoid_hemorrhage

"The combination of intracerebral hemorrhage and raised intracranial pressure (if present) leads to a "sympathetic surge", i.e. over-activation of the sympathetic system. This is thought to occur through two mechanisms, a direct effect on the medulla that leads to activation of the descending sympathetic nervous system and a local release of inflammatory mediators that circulate to the peripheral circulation where they activate the sympathetic system. As a consequence of the sympathetic surge there is a sudden increase in blood pressure; mediated by increased contractility of the ventricle and increased vasoconstriction leading to increased systemic vascular resistance. The consequences of this sympathetic surge can be sudden, severe, and are frequently life-threatening. The high plasma concentrations of adrenaline also may cause cardiac arrhythmias (irregularities in the heart rate and rhythm), electrocardiographic changes (in 27 percent of cases)[10] and cardiac arrest (in 3 percent of cases) may occur rapidly after the onset of hemorrhage.[4][11] A further consequence of this process is neurogenic pulmonary edema[12] where a process of increased pressure within the pulmonary circulation causes leaking of fluid from the pulmonary capillaries into the air spaces, the alveoli, of the lung."

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

This is called exercising. I sometimes do squats for 30 minutes, heartrate goes up to 170. Does nothing but lower my resting heartrate (and increase size of my quads). The heart is the muscle with greatest endurance. It can easily go up to 250 bpm before you are really in trouble and it won't do that naturally. I seriously doubt you will get a heart attack that will kill you before you simply pass out from lack of energy / oxygen.

That was a previous attempt, not to mention the first time I ever got myself up there. Of course, I held back as I literally started experiencing split-second blackouts, which at first made me think I was going to pass out and bust my head. This was also before I thought about doing a low-grade valsalva maneuver to speed up the process. With exercise , I never experienced that even when I went higher than this.

Thanks for helping me figure out where to go with the heart rate by the way.

 

[itsallover]

It seems to me that you're just going to cause damage to your hurt before you die from this.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

It seems to me that you're just going to cause damage to your hurt before you die from this.

Yeah, I am aware this is gonna hurt. I really do want to make this work badly so I can have a contingency method I can use any time and anywhere.

 

[itsallover]

Yeah, I am aware this is gonna hurt. I really do want to make this work badly so I can have a contingency method I can use any time and anywhere.

I still have that little ounce of hope left. Once that is gone if medicine completely fails me then I would go through with methods I would never previously consider. Jumping in front of a train seemed crazy to me once, but I am considering it now. I'm just saying this because if I do end up homeless in NYC then my only real choices are either jumping off a tall bridge or in front of something with force like a train or truck.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

I still have that little ounce of hope left. Once that is gone if medicine completely fails me then I would go through with methods I would never previously consider. Jumping in front of a train seemed crazy to me once, but I am considering it now. I'm just saying this because if I do end up homeless in NYC then my only real choices are either jumping off a tall bridge or in front of something with force like a train or truck.

Thanks, for understanding. This definitely wouldn't be my first choice of a method. But if something happens with whatever method and I'm unable to access anything, I wanna do just that. I also just kinda have a desire to prove something and be known as a resourceful genius... kinda a stupid desire, I know. But I'm never good at being practical. And I just often don't have the means to be either.

 

[satou]

What makes you think stressing your heart will lead to:
1) a heart attack rather than more 'subtle' types of heart problems
2) that any induced heart attack will actually kill you outright, rather than just damaging it

The heart is really durable, it's different from ordinary skeletal muscles. It has to be, because it's supposed to be constantly active for 80+ years. It beats like 3 billion times, no human designed machine compares to that. And the heart has evolved to deal with stress from elevated heart rate, animals that hunt/are hunted generally don't die from heart failure.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

What makes you think stressing your heart will lead to:
1) a heart attack rather than more 'subtle' types of heart problems
2) that any induced heart attack will actually kill you outright, rather than just damaging it

The heart is really durable, it's different from ordinary skeletal muscles. It has to be, because it's supposed to be constantly active for 80+ years. It beats like 3 billion times, no human designed machine compares to that. And the heart has evolved to deal with stress from elevated heart rate, animals that hunt/are hunted generally don't die from heart failure.

This is honestly the second time someone brought up the second point. Which is why I took more time to research on how to improve the chances. Being that this is about as far as I can ever go with this... I think you likely right, and I keep underestimating the heart while overestimating the effect of adrenaline. Rarding the first question, I figured that the heart and whatever part of the human body as with many other things has a certain limit before it finally gives out. Was about to go on a run before I got lectured by my grandfather about not overdoing it as there has been cases of marathon runners dying from heart attacks (can't remember the specific name of that one runner), but I kinda went along with it. There was unfortunately not a lot of respurces I could find on it.

And... I'm dancing around the question not giving a good answer. Aren't I? If so, forgive me.

 

[satou]

I figured that the heart and whatever part of the human body as with many other things has a certain limit before it finally gives out.

Sure, but what happens if your heart reaches such limitations is that feedback mechanisms kick in and those will just keep your heart from exceeding its limitations. This might mean you don't get quite enough oxygen, but that won't kill you.

Was about to go on a run before I got lectured by my grandfather about not overdoing it as there has been cases of marathon runners dying from heart attacks (can't remember the specific name of that one runner), but I kinda went along with it.

Athletes usually die from undiagnosed heart problems, that otherwise might not have been revealed until later. Overheating and dehydration can also kill. But any healthy young person can train and run a marathon. Humans as a species have many evolutionary adaptations that allow us to have greater physical endurance than almost all other land animals. Perhaps because we did endurance hunting at some point in our history ( = chasing and tracking large animals until they collapse from exhaustion).

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

Sure, but what happens if your heart reaches such limitations is that feedback mechanisms kick in and those will just keep your heart from exceeding its limitations. This might mean you don't get quite enough oxygen, but that won't kill you.


Athletes usually die from undiagnosed heart problems, that otherwise might not have been revealed until later. Overheating and dehydration can also kill. But any healthy young person can train and run a marathon. Humans as a species have many evolutionary adaptations that allow us to have greater physical endurance than almost all other land animals. Perhaps because we did endurance hunting at some point in our history ( = chasing and tracking large animals until they collapse from exhaustion).

Wait... didn't even think before making my comment... kinda had the thing focused only on the heart attack, but not the alternative. But what about the valsalva maneuver? When valsalva maneuver is applied with adrenaline, even at a low grade, that's enough to induce a severe headache of sudden onset, caused by a sharp increase in intracranial pressure (not to mention heart rate for a brief moment before baselining). So surely, it should mean something. Sure... my heart rate won't be high enough to make me lose consciousness, but let's say I brought it high enough to make me dizzy, then go all out on the valsalva. Then what?

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

I've figured it out! It's the breathing technique. Instead of taking short shallow and accelerating breaths, you have to do the Wim Hof breathing technique.

I tried this just now and this feeling is definite. You could essentially keep doing this for a long time and you'll essentially keep going up with your pulse until it gets in the 200s perhaps 240 or as high as you can go before you get dizzy. Then after that... after you execute the technique, you finish off with the all-out valsalva maneuver.

However, this idea is still very risky considering the fact you could fuck yourself up.