Venting Self Confidence CANNOT improve...?

[OhWellDerp321]

I've noticed that a lot of the mainstream media, spiritual leaders, self improvement gurus, and therapists have been looking at "confidence" the wrong way.

Their way of looking at improving self confidence is with positive affirmations. This works well for someone who already has confidence and perhaps is just going through a traumatic event in their life and wants to regain confidence.

But these "positive affirmations" don't really make sense for people who have had low self confidence their whole life.

I will give you a few examples of things typically mentioned to improve self confidence.

1) Stop comparing yourself to others.

For someone who has/had confidence:
Listen, this is easy. Because if they have had confidence, they most likely have achieved some level of success. Probably more or at least equal to most of society's expectations. So if they compare themselves to society, they can honestly say to themselves that they are okay.

For someone who never had any confidence:
You can stop comparing yourself to others for a few days. But how long will that last? When you've had low self esteem your whole life, chances are you have fallen behind in some way in your life and society's expectations. You can try and not look at others around you, but the reality sets back in when you have to interact with people your age. Lets say you are in your 30s or older and you have a dead end job with no career or if you have no family or aren't in a relationship. How do you think those conversations will go with your co-workers, friends, or family members that have had success? They will obviously question your situation. And if you honestly don't care, then that's great! But if you actually do care and try to pretend not to, then you will just end up lying to yourself and being more depressed the next day.


2) Be assertive.

For someone who has/had confidence:
The reason they are able to be assertive is because they made decisions before that lead to success. Or if they made a mistake, but they were raised in an environment that encouraged learning from those mistakes. This way, they've made enough decisions to know which ones are bad or good.

For someone who never had any confidence:
You can't just tell someone who has low confidence to be assertive.
Have you ever had seen one of those workers that continuiously ask questions that they already know the answer to? Why do you think that's the case? Its because they have low self confidence and were raised in an environment where every little mistake was criticized. Even though the mistake may not have affected the final result. Therefore they probably made many unsuccessful decisions due to fear of consequences.
The funny thing is that you or another co-worker have probably told them before to be more assertive and for them to make their own decisions.
But what happens the next day? They still have to ask questions to seek validation.


3) Self positive affirmations.

For someone who has/had confidence:
Again, similar to first and second point. For someone who has/had confidence, your can tell yourself "I am a confident person. I trust myself to make the right decisions". They are fine when they tell themselves this because they are being truthful and were raised in an environment where other people have told them this.

For someone who never had any confidence:
You can tell yourself "I am a confident person. I trust myself to make the right decisions". But you know you are not being truthful to yourself. You were raised in an environment where you were told the "you aren't a confident person. You always make the wrong decision".
So yeah, go ahead and tell yourself "I am a confident person. I trust myself to make the right decisions".
But once you actually have to make an important decision again, thats when those words go out the window and you realized the truth once again.
Not saying you should beat yourself up for it. But its just the reality.


At the end of the day, all these ways of "thinking" your way into high self confidence doesn't seem realistic. The only thing that you can really do to improve your self confidence is by eliminating the one major problem in your life. By that I don't mean setting pointless little goals like doing some exercise, or folding your laundry. I mean if you live in a toxic household, you have to move out. Until then, your "thinking" will remain the exact same way.

It seems like a lot of these gurus and therapists look at "confidence" as a spiritual thing and can be improved by changing the way your think. Which is not always the case. A lot of it has to do with taking action.

 

[CogitoMori]

Not just taking action, but being fully supported whether those actions work out or not

 

[casual_existence]

As I've read more about the mind, emotions and how humans work in general this is pretty much true. All of those methods are just a means to an end. If you are someone leading people then you have to be confident because nobody wants to follow someone who has no clue on what they are doing. If you're in a shitty situation then those become coping mechanisms. They help you survive.

 

[Haematemesis]

I lean towards the idea that confidence flactuates and that it comes from experiences not thoughts.

For example this summer I met a girl on Instagram and it was one of my best flirt experiences. It lasted long and felt meaningful. During this time I was confident as hell. I felt unstoppable.

Abstract confidence doesn't exist. My father used to tell me "just think positive" and it is some real BS. You can't just think positive.

So isn't there a way to manipulate ourselves into being confident? I think there is. You are probably more confident about things you know rather than things you don't know right? So what if we selectively engaged in activites that we are confident with? For example one might be confident in basketball. I would recommend him to teach basketball to clueless teenagers. This would probably boost his confidence for a while but like I said it flactuates.

Nevertheless take this with a grain of salt.

 

[legoshi]

I've noticed that a lot of the mainstream media, spiritual leaders, self improvement gurus, and therapists have been looking at "confidence" the wrong way.

Their way of looking at improving self confidence is with positive affirmations. This works well for someone who already has confidence and perhaps is just going through a traumatic event in their life and wants to regain confidence.

But these "positive affirmations" don't really make sense for people who have had low self confidence their whole life.

I will give you a few examples of things typically mentioned to improve self confidence.

1) Stop comparing yourself to others.

For someone who has/had confidence:
Listen, this is easy. Because if they have had confidence, they most likely have achieved some level of success. Probably more or at least equal to most of society's expectations. So if they compare themselves to society, they can honestly say to themselves that they are okay.

For someone who never had any confidence:
You can stop comparing yourself to others for a few days. But how long will that last? When you've had low self esteem your whole life, chances are you have fallen behind in some way in your life and society's expectations. You can try and not look at others around you, but the reality sets back in when you have to interact with people your age. Lets say you are in your 30s or older and you have a dead end job with no career or if you have no family or aren't in a relationship. How do you think those conversations will go with your co-workers, friends, or family members that have had success? They will obviously question your situation. And if you honestly don't care, then that's great! But if you actually do care and try to pretend not to, then you will just end up lying to yourself and being more depressed the next day.


2) Be assertive.

For someone who has/had confidence:
The reason they are able to be assertive is because they made decisions before that lead to success. Or if they made a mistake, but they were raised in an environment that encouraged learning from those mistakes. This way, they've made enough decisions to know which ones are bad or good.

For someone who never had any confidence:
You can't just tell someone who has low confidence to be assertive.
Have you ever had seen one of those workers that continuiously ask questions that they already know the answer to? Why do you think that's the case? Its because they have low self confidence and were raised in an environment where every little mistake was criticized. Even though the mistake may not have affected the final result. Therefore they probably made many unsuccessful decisions due to fear of consequences.
The funny thing is that you or another co-worker have probably told them before to be more assertive and for them to make their own decisions.
But what happens the next day? They still have to ask questions to seek validation.


3) Self positive affirmations.

For someone who has/had confidence:
Again, similar to first and second point. For someone who has/had confidence, your can tell yourself "I am a confident person. I trust myself to make the right decisions". They are fine when they tell themselves this because they are being truthful and were raised in an environment where other people have told them this.

For someone who never had any confidence:
You can tell yourself "I am a confident person. I trust myself to make the right decisions". But you know you are not being truthful to yourself. You were raised in an environment where you were told the "you aren't a confident person. You always make the wrong decision".
So yeah, go ahead and tell yourself "I am a confident person. I trust myself to make the right decisions".
But once you actually have to make an important decision again, thats when those words go out the window and you realized the truth once again.
Not saying you should beat yourself up for it. But its just the reality.


At the end of the day, all these ways of "thinking" your way into high self confidence doesn't seem realistic. The only thing that you can really do to improve your self confidence is by eliminating the one major problem in your life. By that I don't mean setting pointless little goals like doing some exercise, or folding your laundry. I mean if you live in a toxic household, you have to move out. Until then, your "thinking" will remain the exact same way.

It seems like a lot of these gurus and therapists look at "confidence" as a spiritual thing and can be improved by changing the way your think. Which is not always the case. A lot of it has to do with taking action.

Yeah I've read alot of self help books and the positive affirmation stuff always felt silly to me. Even when partaking in it I don't believe what I'm saying. I feel like I have taken action with working out and I'm in great shape but still I have no self confidence. I don't think I ever will have any self confidence and will always look at myself as less than others. Maybe confidence is like learning a second language it's easy to pick it up as a child but once you are an adult it's pretty hard to relearn things.

 

[blackpillhopeless]

In my opinion confidence comes from an evaluation of your own ability/status with others and positive feedback throughout your life.

In my case, my lack of confidence comes from my unattractive face, and me being on the autistic spectrum and thus having an unattractive personality. A person who is born attractive will naturally be confident due to all the positive feedback they have received from others throughout their life. In my experience if I try to be confident, I will come across as delusional due to my ugliness, and make a fool of myself if I try to talk confidently due to my autism. It's better for me to be humble and have a realistic evaluation of how genetically unattractive I am.

Before anyone suggests it I have done years of self improvement, have an amazing physique that I get complimented on by random men in the street and the gym all the time, have worked hard on my career, and have worked hard at socialising and meeting women. All of this has done nothing to improve my attractiveness to women, and hence has done nothing to improve my confidence.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Confidence is something I've always struggled with and many of my teachers and employers have picked up on it. It truly is a nightmare trying to pretend you can do a job (even if you can,) while you are fighting with all the 'demons' inside telling you how shit you are but, trying to hide that and not let it trip you up. Sometimes I'm so envious of people who (likely) don't have to battle all that self doubt.

I really wish there was a way to just snap out of it. In some jobs, I've been pretty much told I need to stop showing my insecurities and worry because it (naturally) makes people nervous/ doubtful you know what you're doing- like you say. Still, it feels so hard to do really.

Sometimes I wonder how people like us are even supposed to be able to function! I've even done Head of Department jobs in the past. Obviously, they were very tough. But then also, what choice do we have? I doubt we qualify for disabilities because we lack confidence!

I suppose I hoped that some sort of 'exposure therapy' would straighten me out. I mean, I suppose I coped. I was never sacked or anything. I chose to leave each time but really, it was just one extremely uncomfortable situation after another.

Maybe the only thing I did pick up was in language skills. Don't apologise too much. At least try to sound positive and in the right. It doesn't do a whole lot for what's going on underneath though.

Weirdly though, at other times, I will stand up for myself. Which usually surprises them and me. Lol. I think I just don't like injustice towards anyone.

 

[idelttoilfsadness21]

This is why self awareness is deeply important and having a vital communication factors from a young age to determine one's sense of ownership and purpose when they are loved than what is spoken in this world about growing stronger. They use that mainly towards men who need somewhere to build their story of importance in a world that doesn't defend them and honestly berate them, and it's so sad to watch so many men fall into this trap the most to equally women who believe their importance is to be rich and powerful and a girl boss. The same rhetoric is being pushed because people are just that desperate to find closure in this world and are looking towards the wrong things and why no one truly wins in the end.

 

[dragonofenvy]

Thank you for this thread. I thought I was the only one who felt like this. Confidence is not something you simply have or get, but rather it is TAUGHT. You cannot be confident on your own, especially if you've had many failures. The faux confidence those with low self-esteem have is instead WILLPOWER. You can't gain confidence if you don't get wins here and there. Of course you're going to have low self-esteem if you fail everything. But many people who are successful, whether it be in their careers or in relationships just don't seem to understand this because they don't understand that confidence was TAUGHT to them BECAUSE they were successful.

 

[OhWellDerp321]

Not just taking action, but being fully supported whether those actions work out or not

Unfortunately when you grow up with unsupportive parents, no matter how many friends support you, inside you will still be seeking approval.

As I've read more about the mind, emotions and how humans work in general this is pretty much true. All of those methods are just a means to an end. If you are someone leading people then you have to be confident because nobody wants to follow someone who has no clue on what they are doing. If you're in a shitty situation then those become coping mechanisms. They help you survive.

I wouldn't say its even about leading other people. For people that have no self confidence that's probably not achievable. Its just about having enough confidence to complete a simple task.

Yeah I've read alot of self help books and the positive affirmation stuff always felt silly to me. Even when partaking in it I don't believe what I'm saying. I feel like I have taken action with working out and I'm in great shape but still I have no self confidence. I don't think I ever will have any self confidence and will always look at myself as less than others. Maybe confidence is like learning a second language it's easy to pick it up as a child but once you are an adult it's pretty hard to relearn things.

^ Exactly what you said. That's the problem when these gurus and therapists promote exercise. Even if you love exercising and sports, they are a temporary relief. Not even a temporary "solution". Exercising and playing sports will not help you put food on your table if you are struggling to find a job.

Confidence is something I've always struggled with and many of my teachers and employers have picked up on it. It truly is a nightmare trying to pretend you can do a job (even if you can,) while you are fighting with all the 'demons' inside telling you how shit you are but, trying to hide that and not let it trip you up. Sometimes I'm so envious of people who (likely) don't have to battle all that self doubt.

I really wish there was a way to just snap out of it. In some jobs, I've been pretty much told I need to stop showing my insecurities and worry because it (naturally) makes people nervous/ doubtful you know what you're doing- like you say. Still, it feels so hard to do really.

Sometimes I wonder how people like us are even supposed to be able to function! I've even done Head of Department jobs in the past. Obviously, they were very tough. But then also, what choice do we have? I doubt we qualify for disabilities because we lack confidence!

I suppose I hoped that some sort of 'exposure therapy' would straighten me out. I mean, I suppose I coped. I was never sacked or anything. I chose to leave each time but really, it was just one extremely uncomfortable situation after another.

Maybe the only thing I did pick up was in language skills. Don't apologise too much. At least try to sound positive and in the right. It doesn't do a whole lot for what's going on underneath though.

Weirdly though, at other times, I will stand up for myself. Which usually surprises them and me. Lol. I think I just don't like injustice towards anyone.

This is an amazing point. Confidence matters a lot in the workplace. As a kid, you can tell your teachers and cry if you don't have self confidence. As an adult....you look like a total idiot if you mention self confidence. So you hide it and try to do your job. But everytime you make a little mistake, you start panicking and talking yourself down. You can't reveal this. Then your employer wonders why you are struggling to complete such simple tasks.

You did pretty good I would say if you did head of department jobs. Those aren't easy for someone who lacks confidence.

Confidence is something I've always struggled with and many of my teachers and employers have picked up on it. It truly is a nightmare trying to pretend you can do a job (even if you can,) while you are fighting with all the 'demons' inside telling you how shit you are but, trying to hide that and not let it trip you up. Sometimes I'm so envious of people who (likely) don't have to battle all that self doubt.

I really wish there was a way to just snap out of it. In some jobs, I've been pretty much told I need to stop showing my insecurities and worry because it (naturally) makes people nervous/ doubtful you know what you're doing- like you say. Still, it feels so hard to do really.

Sometimes I wonder how people like us are even supposed to be able to function! I've even done Head of Department jobs in the past. Obviously, they were very tough. But then also, what choice do we have? I doubt we qualify for disabilities because we lack confidence!

I suppose I hoped that some sort of 'exposure therapy' would straighten me out. I mean, I suppose I coped. I was never sacked or anything. I chose to leave each time but really, it was just one extremely uncomfortable situation after another.

Maybe the only thing I did pick up was in language skills. Don't apologise too much. At least try to sound positive and in the right. It doesn't do a whole lot for what's going on underneath though.

Weirdly though, at other times, I will stand up for myself. Which usually surprises them and me. Lol. I think I just don't like injustice towards anyone.

This is an amazing point. Confidence matters a lot in the workplace. As a kid, you can tell your teachers and cry if you don't have self confidence. As an adult....you look like a total idiot if you mention self confidence. So you hide it and try to do your job. But everytime you make a little mistake, you start panicking and talking yourself down. You can't reveal this. Then your employer wonders why you are struggling to complete such simple tasks.

You did pretty good I would say if you did head of department jobs. Those aren't easy for someone who lacks confidence.

 

[CogitoMori]

Unfortunately when you grow up with unsupportive parents, no matter how many friends support you, inside you will still be seeking approval.

I still am. That, topped with people that pretend to be supportive only to turn on you, I don't think I could ever trust any new "friends" enough to seek their approval.

 

[OhWellDerp321]

Thank you for this thread. I thought I was the only one who felt like this. Confidence is not something you simply have or get, but rather it is TAUGHT. You cannot be confident on your own, especially if you've had many failures. The faux confidence those with low self-esteem have is instead WILLPOWER. You can't gain confidence if you don't get wins here and there. Of course you're going to have low self-esteem if you fail everything. But many people who are successful, whether it be in their careers or in relationships just don't seem to understand this because they don't understand that confidence was TAUGHT to them BECAUSE they were successful.

I know what you are trying to say. But I wouldn't say confidence is necessarily "taught". Confidence is developed through the ability to make mistakes and learn from it. It is typical for someone raised with helicoper parents to have low self esteem because they were never given the oppourtunity to make their own mistakes. So in otherwords, those successful people are confident because they have learned through trial and error. Which puts them ahead in life. Meanwhile, the unsuccessful people have low self confidence because they haven't failed enough. So they are way behind in life. That's why you see some 20 year olds that are almost mature as 30 year olds. Because they probably starting working early, and faced the real world. Vice versa, some 30 year olds are immature as 20 year olds because they never learned how to make their own decisions. Most likely, they started working later in life and haven't faced the real world enough.

I still am. That, topped with people that pretend to be supportive only to turn on you, I don't think I could ever trust any new "friends" enough to seek their approval.

I mean, the truth is, adult friendship doesn't really exist. Not in the modern world at least. As an adult, you have too many of your own problems to worry about friend's problems. So don't be surprised if people turn on you.

 

[dragonofenvy]

But I wouldn't say confidence is necessarily "taught". Confidence is developed through the ability to make mistakes and learn from it. It is typical for someone raised with helicoper parents to have low self esteem because they were never given the oppourtunity to make their own mistakes.

This is sort of what I meant, at least to an extent. I still think confidence does come from how you're treated. If you're bullied a lot, you're not gonna be confident. Those that are are exceptions. If your parents hate you, you're not going to be confident. In a normal world with a normal life, yes, you are 100% correct. That being said, if you're successful your whole life out of luck and haven't failed a whole lot, you still can be confident. I was. I never failed at school. Ever. I got a perfect GPA and never studied and had complete confidence in myself and my abilities at school whilst never failing and barely even working at it. Then again, exceptions don't prove norms do they?

because they haven't failed enough

For some, adversity strengthens them. For others, it destroys them.

 

[CogitoMori]

I mean, the truth is, adult friendship doesn't really exist. Not in the modern world at least. As an adult, you have too many of your own problems to worry about friend's problems. So don't be surprised if people turn on you.

There's no point to being alive then

 

[OhWellDerp321]

This is sort of what I meant, at least to an extent. I still think confidence does come from how you're treated. If you're bullied a lot, you're not gonna be confident. Those that are are exceptions. If your parents hate you, you're not going to be confident. In a normal world with a normal life, yes, you are 100% correct. That being said, if you're successful your whole life out of luck and haven't failed a whole lot, you still can be confident. I was. I never failed at school. Ever. I got a perfect GPA and never studied and had complete confidence in myself and my abilities at school whilst never failing and barely even working at it. Then again, exceptions don't prove norms do they?

For some, adversity strengthens them. For others, it destroys them.

To be honest, school doesn't affect confidence much because it seems like schooling now-a-days is all about studying hard and getting good grades. Its when you have to face real life challenges like work and managing finances, thats when confidence determines your choices.
School is very straight forward even for someone without self confidence.
You either fail or pass.
Most of the time, if you study hard, you have a higher chance of passing.
For career choices, work, a managining finances, its not simple as just work hard and you will succeed.
If you work hard at a dead end job,, you won't become more successful finanancially.
This is where you have to have confidence to make the right career choice to move on. And if you make the wrong decision or no decision, it can harm you long term.
Also school is very textbook based. You are given a problem, most often taught a solution to it. Work is not the same. There are multiple ways to solve each problem. If you don't make the right decision. You are screwed.

 

[CogitoMori]

That being said, if you're successful your whole life out of luck and haven't failed a whole lot, you still can be confident. I was. For some, adversity strengthens them. For others, it destroys them.

The confidence comes from the success, not the failure. You can fail as many times as you want, but you won't feel the confidence until you succeed at whatever task.

 

[dragonofenvy]

To be honest, school doesn't affect confidence much because it seems like schooling now-a-days is all about studying hard and getting good grades. Its when you have to face real life challenges like work and managing finances, thats when confidence determines your choices.
School is very straight forward even for someone without self confidence.
You either fail or pass.
Most of the time, if you study hard, you have a higher chance of passing.
For career choices, work, a managining finances, its not simple as just work hard and you will succeed.
If you work hard at a dead end job,, you won't become more successful finanancially.
This is where you have to have confidence to make the right career choice to move on. And if you make the wrong decision or no decision, it can harm you long term.
Also school is very textbook based. You are given a problem, most often taught a solution to it. Work is not the same. There are multiple ways to solve each problem. If you don't make the right decision. You are screwed.

So if you flunk out of school, it's not going to affect your confidence? A person who gets bad grades isn't going to think they're dumb? A person who gets good grades isn't going to feel like they're smart? Does feeling smart not make you feel confident?

 

[OhWellDerp321]

There's no point to being alive then

I sometimes wonder myself whats the point of adult life tbh. I don't plan on getting married. So whats the point? Work until I die?
I feel like so much of adult life is just about marriage and creating a family.

 

[CogitoMori]

To be honest, school doesn't affect confidence much because it seems like schooling now-a-days is all about studying hard and getting good grades. Its when you have to face real life challenges like work and managing finances, thats when confidence determines your choices.
School is very straight forward even for someone without self confidence.
You either fail or pass.
Most of the time, if you study hard, you have a higher chance of passing.
For career choices, work, a managining finances, its not simple as just work hard and you will succeed.
If you work hard at a dead end job,, you won't become more successful finanancially.
This is where you have to have confidence to make the right career choice to move on. And if you make the wrong decision or no decision, it can harm you long term.
Also school is very textbook based. You are given a problem, most often taught a solution to it. Work is not the same. There are multiple ways to solve each problem. If you don't make the right decision. You are screwed.

School also has asshole bullies and vindictive teachers. How would it NOT affect someone's confidence especially in formative years? School is the absolute worst place for your kid if you want them to be confident.

 

[dragonofenvy]

The confidence comes from the success, not the failure.

And let me tell you, the only thing I was ever good at was school. I failed at everything else in life. Everything else in life I figured was impossible, but I always told myself I was smart because I was good at school. Then after college after failing to find a job with the career path I choose everything went into a death spiral. It's a really common story, and people don't seem to understand this.

My conclusion: It comes from a combination of success, the ability to move past failures, and from being treated well by others.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

School is the absolute worst place for your kid if you want them to be confident.

Not necessarily. Not all schools have huge issues with bullying, especially those that have zero tolerance policies for it and that work towards creating a strong and healthy school community while preventing the formation of strong hierarchical social structures amongst classmates. It really comes down to the school you decide to send your kid to. It also partly comes down to the severity of the bullying. Mild bullying isn't going to likely have the same potential long-term consequences on confidence compared to more moderate to severe forms of it.

OP, I don't think I necessarily agree with your assessment. For one, to even be able to take action in the first place sometimes does involve you needing to become more confident in yourself. And two, taking action doesn't always lead to an increase in self-confidence. For many, their level of self-confidence just ends up staying the same. I don't know much about increasing self-confidence, but I feel like a lot of it would have to come down to trying to view yourself from a different angle instead of either just taking action or just saying a bunch of positive affirmations. For example, comparing yourself to others is normal and isn't something that can easily be stopped. It plays a role in how we view and understand ourselves and our own worth on a social scale. However, we can change how we engage in social comparisons by trying to not engage in upwards (and downwards) social comparisons and instead try to engage more in self-enhancement.

A lot of the people you see in those sorts of self-improvement/self-help nonsense all over the place are mostly just capitalistic (and sometimes secretly religious) bullcrap. I don't think that low self-confidence is inherently a bad thing. People with low self-confidence might be more likely to be more careful and thorough in their work or it may make it easier for you to show more humility. Then again, I might be biased because my self-confidence has been low throughout most of my life (which I understand might be hard to believe due to my stubbornness and temperament potentially creating the illusion of someone who is confident and shit, but it's actually pretty low). I personally don't want to strive for high self-confidence. I find people who are extremely self-confident to be arrogant and full of themselves.

 

[OhWellDerp321]

Not necessarily. Not all schools have huge issues with bullying, especially those that have zero tolerance policies for it and that work towards creating a strong and healthy school community while preventing the formation of strong hierarchical social structures amongst classmates. It really comes down to the school you decide to send your kid to. It also partly comes down to the severity of the bullying. Mild bullying isn't going to likely have the same potential long-term consequences on confidence compared to more moderate to severe forms of it.

OP, I don't think I necessarily agree with your assessment. For one, to even be able to take action in the first place sometimes does involve you needing to become more confident in yourself. And two, taking action doesn't always lead to an increase in self-confidence. For many, their level of self-confidence just ends up staying the same. I don't know much about increasing self-confidence, but I feel like a lot of it would have to come down to trying to view yourself from a different angle instead of either just taking action or just saying a bunch of positive affirmations. For example, comparing yourself to others is normal and isn't something that can easily be stopped. It plays a role in how we view and understand ourselves and our own worth on a social scale. However, we can change how we engage in social comparisons by trying to not engage in upwards (and downwards) social comparisons and instead try to engage more in self-enhancement.

A lot of the people you see in those sorts of self-improvement/self-help nonsense all over the place are mostly just capitalistic (and sometimes secretly religious) bullcrap. I don't think that low self-confidence is inherently a bad thing. People with low self-confidence might be more likely to be more careful and thorough in their work or it may make it easier for you to show more humility. Then again, I might be biased because my self-confidence has been low throughout most of my life (which I understand might be hard to believe due to my stubbornness and temperament potentially creating the illusion of someone who is confident and shit, but it's actually pretty low). I personally don't want to strive for high self-confidence. I find people who are extremely self-confident to be arrogant and full of themselves.

"For one, to even be able to take action in the first place sometimes does involve you needing to become more confident in yourself"
^ Can you point out where I said you don't need confidence to take action?

"And two, taking action doesn't always lead to an increase in self-confidence. For many, their level of self-confidence just ends up staying the same".
^ It doesn't always. But who do you think has higher chance at self confidence? The person who is stuck in a toxic household? Or the person that has moved on from that? There would be some difference. It may not be a lot. But some difference.

"I don't know much about increasing self-confidence, but I feel like a lot of it would have to come down to trying to view yourself from a different angle instead of either just taking action or just saying a bunch of positive affirmations. For example, comparing yourself to others is normal and isn't something that can easily be stopped. It plays a role in how we view and understand ourselves and our own worth on a social scale. However, we can change how we engage in social comparisons by trying to not engage in upwards (and downwards) social comparisons and instead try to engage more in self-enhancement."
^ Honestly, this sounds like contracdicting advice.
You said comparing yourself is normal and can't be easily stopped and plays a role in our own self worth. But then afterwards you said you should try not to engage in upwards or downwards social comparisons? So in other words, it is normal and can't be easily stopped. But you should stop doing it.

I don't think that low self-confidence is inherently a bad thing. People with low self-confidence might be more likely to be more careful and thorough in their work or it may make it easier for you to show more humility.
^ Its a pretty bad thing for the person with low self confidence. The reason people with low self confidence are more probably too careful is because they are afraid of making mistakes and being scolded for it. Sure it may end up being good for other people around them. But for themselves thats not a good thing.

And let me tell you, the only thing I was ever good at was school. I failed at everything else in life. Everything else in life I figured was impossible, but I always told myself I was smart because I was good at school. Then after college after failing to find a job with the career path I choose everything went into a death spiral. It's a really common story, and people don't seem to understand this.

My conclusion: It comes from a combination of success, the ability to move past failures, and from being treated well by others.

Thats school in a nutshell. It is possible pass high school and university even if you are just average. But once you get out into the real world, you realize you need to be more than just average. You need more than just hard work. You need some good luck.

And let me tell you, the only thing I was ever good at was school. I failed at everything else in life. Everything else in life I figured was impossible, but I always told myself I was smart because I was good at school. Then after college after failing to find a job with the career path I choose everything went into a death spiral. It's a really common story, and people don't seem to understand this.

My conclusion: It comes from a combination of success, the ability to move past failures, and from being treated well by others.

Thats school in a nutshell. It is possible pass high school and university even if you are just average. But once you get out into the real world, you realize you need to be more than just average. You need more than just hard work. You need some good luck.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

"For one, to even be able to take action in the first place sometimes does involve you needing to become more confident in yourself"
^ Can you point out where I said you don't need confidence to take action?

"And two, taking action doesn't always lead to an increase in self-confidence. For many, their level of self-confidence just ends up staying the same".
^ It doesn't always. But who do you think has higher chance at self confidence? The person who is stuck in a toxic household? Or the person that has moved on from that? There would be some difference. It may not be a lot. But some difference.

"I don't know much about increasing self-confidence, but I feel like a lot of it would have to come down to trying to view yourself from a different angle instead of either just taking action or just saying a bunch of positive affirmations. For example, comparing yourself to others is normal and isn't something that can easily be stopped. It plays a role in how we view and understand ourselves and our own worth on a social scale. However, we can change how we engage in social comparisons by trying to not engage in upwards (and downwards) social comparisons and instead try to engage more in self-enhancement."
^ Honestly, this sounds like contracdicting advice.
You said comparing yourself is normal and can't be easily stopped and plays a role in our own self worth. But then afterwards you said you should try not to engage in upwards or downwards social comparisons? So in other words, it is normal and can't be easily stopped. But you should stop doing it.

I don't think that low self-confidence is inherently a bad thing. People with low self-confidence might be more likely to be more careful and thorough in their work or it may make it easier for you to show more humility.
^ Its a pretty bad thing for the person with low self confidence. The reason people with low self confidence are more probably too careful is because they are afraid of making mistakes and being scolded for it. Sure it may end up being good for other people around them. But for themselves thats not a good thing.

The only thing that you can really do to improve your self confidence is by eliminating the one major problem in your life. By that I don't mean setting pointless little goals like doing some exercise, or folding your laundry. I mean if you live in a toxic household, you have to move out.

^ This statement is what I'm referring to. I should have specified that by "take action" I was referring to eliminating major problems in your life. You claimed that you need to do that in order to gain confidence but it doesn't take into consideration the fact that many may need to already have better self-confidence in order to accomplish this step.

A person stuck in a toxic household isn't going to magically gain more self-confidence once out of that environment. The people in this site are prime examples of this. A lot of people on here have left and cut off their toxic families and still struggle with developing good self-confidence despite it being years since they've been in contact with them. While your chances might of developing higher self confidence might be higher, many still find that their self-confidence is quite low. Along with that, not everybody finds that their low self-confidemce is caused by things, like living in a toxic and abusive environment. As a result, this type of advice isn't really that helpful. It doesn't address the matter of actually trying to increase one's self-confidence directly by changing how one thinks of themself.

Also, my advice wasn't contradictory, howveer I worded my shit wrong. Sorry about that, just reread it and what I meant was you need to change how you engage in upwards and downwards social comparion and to try and engage more in enhancement. While social comparions are used when trying to understand our own self-worth, changing how we engage in social comparions can also influence how we engage with ourselves. For example, if you view someone as better at drawing than you (upwards social comparison) you can either react to it by allowing it to make you feel discouraged and lower your feelings of self-worth and give up or you can utilize it to try and motivate yourself to do better (self-enhancement). It's normal and cannot he stopped, however we can change how we decide to engage with it.

Also, I have low self-confidence and I generally don't give a shit about being scolded. Now you are just making up shitty generalizations.

 

[OhWellDerp321]

^ This statement is what I'm referring to. I should have specified that by "take action" I was referring to eliminating major problems in your life. You claimed that you need to do that in order to gain confidence but it doesn't take into consideration the fact that many may need to already have better self-confidence in order to accomplish this step.

A person stuck in a toxic household isn't going to magically gain more self-confidence once out of that environment. The people in this site are prime examples of this. A lot of people on here have left and cut off their toxic families and still struggle with developing good self-confidence despite it being years since they've been in contact with them. While your chances might of developing higher self confidence might be higher, many still find that their self-confidence is quite low. Along with that, not everybody finds that their low self-confidemce is caused by things, like living in a toxic and abusive environment. As a result, this type of advice isn't really that helpful. It doesn't address the matter of actually trying to increase one's self-confidence directly by changing how one thinks of themself.

Also, my advice wasn't contradictory, howveer I worded my shit wrong. Sorry about that, just reread it and what I meant was you need to change how you engage in upwards and downwards social comparion and to try and engage more in enhancement. While social comparions are used when trying to understand our own self-worth, changing how we engage in social comparions can also influence how we engage with ourselves. For example, if you view someone as better at drawing than you (upwards social comparison) you can either react to it by allowing it to make you feel discouraged and lower your feelings of self-worth and give up or you can utilize it to try and motivate yourself to do better (self-enhancement). It's normal and cannot he stopped, however we can change how we decide to engage with it.

Also, I have low self-confidence and I generally don't give a shit about being scolded. Now you are just making up shitty generalizations.

^ This statement is what I'm referring to. I should have specified that by "take action" I was referring to eliminating major problems in your life. You claimed that you need to do that in order to gain confidence but it doesn't take into consideration the fact that many may need to already have better self-confidence in order to accomplish this step.
^ Yeah that's true. You do need some self confidence to take action. I agree with you there. But positive affirmations don't provide that.

A person stuck in a toxic household isn't going to magically gain more self-confidence once out of that environment. The people in this site are prime examples of this. A lot of people on here have left and cut off their toxic families and still struggle with developing good self-confidence despite it being years since they've been in contact with them
^ Please re-read my response:
It doesn't always. But who do you think has higher chance at self confidence? The person who is stuck in a toxic household? Or the person that has moved on from that? There would be some difference. It may not be a lot. But some difference.
In other words, it may not make much of a difference in the end. But compared to being yelled at every day in a toxic household, it makes a difference.

Along with that, not everybody finds that their low self-confidemce is caused by things, like living in a toxic and abusive environment
^ But nobody said that everyone's self confidence is caused by an abusive environment. I simply stated it as an example of what can be done for taking action. But you interpreted it as stating everyone's low self confidence comes from an abusive environment.

Also, my advice wasn't contradictory, howveer I worded my shit wrong. Sorry about that, just reread it and what I meant was you need to change how you engage in upwards and downwards social comparion and to try and engage more in enhancement. While social comparions are used when trying to understand our own self-worth, changing how we engage in social comparions can also influence how we engage with ourselves. For example, if you view someone as better at drawing than you (upwards social comparison) you can either react to it by allowing it to make you feel discouraged and lower your feelings of self-worth and give up or you can utilize it to try and motivate yourself to do better (self-enhancement). It's normal and cannot he stopped, however we can change how we decide to engage with it.
^ This advice doesn't seem realistic for someone with low self confidence. You said social comparisons are used when trying to understand our own self-worth. So this means that you are comparing yourself upwards or downwards. What I am getting from your example is that you believe that people can change the way they feel about that.
For people with high confidence, 100%. For people with low self confidence, it may be easy to think that way when being given this advice in a safe relaxing environment like a therapist's office. They may even be able to follow that advice for a short while. But going back to my original point, it was about how realistic they are being with themselves. The stakes of the comparison also matters.
I am talking about things that are more important.
If you view someone who has a 70k job as better than you (upwords social comparison), you can say "don't let it discourage you, use it to motivate youself to get a better job than them". For the person with low confidence, it depends how far of a hole they are in.
If they are old and have been working a dead end 30k job for many years, that advice probably won't go far. Its probably not realistic that old person with low self confidence will get the chance to earn more than that 70k person.

Also, I have low self-confidence and I generally don't give a shit about being scolded. Now you are just making up shitty generalizations.
Of course I am generalizing. This isn't a thesis paper. It's simply my opinion based on my own observations.
Based on what you've said, you don't seem like the typical person with low self confidence. But again, its just my opinion.
The ironic thing is that you claim that I was giving bad generalizations, yet in that one sentence you just generalized things. "Also, I have low self-confidence and I generally don't give a shit about being scolded". So that means because you don't care about being scolded that other people with low self confidence also don't care?

 

[Electra]

Thank you for this, it's a nice thread. How does self-esteem and condifence differ? Is it the same thing?

 

[8leveloquenfrn4evr8]

Humans need parents/mentors to give them reasons to feel like they can and will and are meeting the challenges of life. If you start badly and start to feel insecure as a result it just gets exponentially harder over time unless you look at your parents and see confident successful winners and can keep resetting by looking at them. Some people have better or worse brain chemistry and some people benefit from various halo effects over the years but if someone's parents are losers it is no surprise if they end up on a website like this one.

 

[Pluto]

 

[OhWellDerp321]

Humans need parents/mentors to give them reasons to feel like they can and will and are meeting the challenges of life. If you start badly and start to feel insecure as a result it just gets exponentially harder over time unless you look at your parents and see confident successful winners and can keep resetting by looking at them. Some people have better or worse brain chemistry and some people benefit from various halo effects over the years but if someone's parents are losers it is no surprise if they end up on a website like this one

I mean, it can't all be blamed on the parents. But it doesn't help if you don't have good start.
A lot of parents think that financial stability is good enough to take care of a kid. But the most important point some parents miss, is that they have to be role models. That's more important than anything else.

 

[8leveloquenfrn4evr8]

I mean, it can't all be blamed on the parents. But it doesn't help if you don't have good start.
A lot of parents think that financial stability is good enough to take care of a kid. But the most important point some parents miss, is that they have to be role models. That's more important than anything else.

I actually fully agree with this, so we are almost entirely in agreement. I don´t even think the efforts parents make are the most important part. I think the parents role model w/o even knowing it. So if the parents are hot & conceited winners then it would be very unlikely for their children to have any serious problems. But if the parents are both losers running away from societies they are failed in, it is extremely unlikely, regardless of what they might try to do about it, that their children would not end up being miserable, destroyed losers whose only relief will be death. Those losers types should not delude themselves into believing they can have children and that things will just work out because they have decent jobs. It won´t work out.

 

[Languish]

I am confident that if I choose to die I will succeed.