Method SALT METHOD? FOR THOSE THAT CANT GET SN

[Living sucks]

Maybe a megathread should be started about the use of sodium chloride, regular salt, as a method to ctb?
For those people in countries that can not obtain SN, you can surely obtain regular salt? It may not be as peaceful as SN, it might be identical to SN? Who knows? And the SN regimen might help with the salt method? If I wanted to use SN but couldn't get it, I would consider this? Thoughts?

A Systematic Review of Fatalities Related to Acute Ingestion of Salt. A Need for Warning Labels?

There are sporadic cases of fatalities from acutely eating salt. Yet, on social media, there are “challenges to” and examples of children and some adults acutely eating salt, and recently a charity advocated eating small amounts of salt ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[_Minsk]

anti emetics needed?
just kidding, well with some big capsules this might work, interesting method

 

[pete_x]

I had actually considered epsom salts but, wasn't there some face eating thing going on a few years back with that ?

edit: anything on rock salt ?

 

[Living sucks]

anti emetics needed?
just kidding, well with some big capsules this might work, interesting method

Can't be that much worse than SN, taste and effects? And I'm serious. I see comments like "if I could get SN I'd drink it right away" when these people might have essentially the same method right in their cabinet ?

 

[antler]

wasn't there some face eating thing going on a few years back with that ?

You're thinking of bath salts. That's a different thing entirely, and apparently the guy was just crazy anyway. He was never on bath salts. As far as drinking saltwater goes, it does kill people, but I don't think it does it in anywhere near the same way as SN does. SN makes it so your blood can't process or carry oxygen through it. Regular salt overdose screws with the water retention of your body. So long story short is, it won't be the same sort of quick and relatively painless thing that has made SN so "popular".

 

[pete_x]

You're thinking of bath salts. That's a different thing entirely, and apparently the guy was just crazy anyway. He was never on bath salts. As far as drinking saltwater goes, it does kill people, but I don't think it does it in anywhere near the same way as SN does. SN makes it so your blood can't process or carry oxygen through it. Regular salt overdose screws with the water retention of your body. So long story short is, it won't be the same sort of quick and relatively painless thing that has made SN so "popular".

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

SN is painless and produces death through Methemoglobinemia . Salt will produce death through a different mechanism and is not a good death but painful imo.

For me there is no substitute , SN is it. What else can you take and not have brain damage if you survive and it will be painless ?

Good call - we need to know the mechanism(s) of death. (Edit: see the article linked in the OP, two of the keywords are hypernatremia and hypertension.)

But as OP said, some people can't obtain SN and need an alternative.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Good call - we need to know the mechanism(s) of death.

But as OP said, some people can't obtain SN and need an alternative.

imo Salt poisoning doesn't sound too good:

"Early on, the intoxicant will cause a strong feeling of thirst, followed by weakness, nausea, and loss of appetite. More severe symptoms ensue, including confusion, muscle twitching, and bleeding in or around the brain. Death results by the swelling of the brain against the skull"

Salt poisoning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Drinking 6 liters of water can also produce death. But it's a miserable death.

 

[Living sucks]

Sodium azide is also painful but there's a megathread on it. Essentially there all salts.
And I disagree that SN is painless. I don't believe that statement can be made with such conviction.

Note I might take this post down. Reason: i don't want to give pro-lifers the knowledge that we found out "button". Loose lips sink ships.

Im not sure what you're referring to?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Salt poisoning doesn't sound too good:

"Early on, the intoxicant will cause a strong feeling of thirst, followed by weakness, nausea, and loss of appetite. More severe symptoms ensue, including confusion, muscle twitching, and bleeding in or around the brain. Death results by the swelling of the brain against the skull"

Salt poisoning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Drinking 6 liters of water can also produce death. But it's a miserable death.

I'd argue that part of the site's function is to give as reliable information as possible on various methods so people can make informed decisions, not gatekeep against methods that don't sound good. Heck, if it's a more reliable method than ODs, it's good information to know, could help someone not act out of desperation and end up with long term damage and/or in a pscyh ward. Not saying that salt will prove to be more reliable or prevent such outcomes, we need more info, but that's a function of a megathread.

That was really helpful info about salt. And the graphic about other methods was also helpful.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Sodium azide is also painful but there's a megathread on it. Essentially there all salts.
And I disagree that SN is painless. I don't believe that statement can be made with such conviction.

Im not sure what you're referring to?

This is all just my opinion and i said it was just my opinion . From what i read , Salt poisoning is usually a long painful death.

In any event, anyone can do their own research and make up their own mind to use the method that they want to for ctb or to not ctb. A lot of info is on this site and out there on the internet. I have to do what i think is right for me.

If someone can't get SN and wants to use salt that's up to them .

For me imo I'm not going to use something that seems really painful Like salt. if someone can prove me wrong then i'd welcome it as i do want to find a painless reliable quick method as i think many people do. i don't want to be "right" or debate i just want to know the right thing to do so i don't suffer more. I can find other methods that to me seem less painful to my mind and because of the research that i did.

Salt poisoning doesn't sound too good to me:

"Early on, the intoxicant will cause a strong feeling of thirst, followed by weakness, nausea, and loss of appetite. More severe symptoms ensue, including confusion, muscle twitching, and bleeding in or around the brain. Death results by the swelling of the brain against the skull"


Salt poisoning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[deadpixels]

Salt poisoning doesn't sound too good:

"Early on, the intoxicant will cause a strong feeling of thirst, followed by weakness, nausea, and loss of appetite. More severe symptoms ensue, including confusion, muscle twitching, and bleeding in or around the brain. Death results by the swelling of the brain against the skull"

Salt poisoning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Drinking 6 liters of water can also produce death. But it's a miserable death.

This infographic is strange, it says that 6L of water is lethal but you need 28L of coffee?

 

[Living sucks]

Im not trying to argue if this method is peaceful, or miserable. I'm simply posing it as a potential viable method for someone who has no other options.
The last few days alone there were 4 or 5 posts saying, "I have nothing at my disposal and I have no money, what can I use to ctb"?
well almost everyone has salt.
I'm not going to say it's easy or painless. But maybe if mixed with a cocktail of meds it could be less painful... but more certain??
it's why i mentioned it and posted.
For feedback and people to have options when they have nothing else.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

@Living sucks, if you have enough info to start a megathread, I'd suggest you ask the mods if you can start one and do it.

I think it would also be helpful if there was a megathread about pink curing salt, as it's mentioned in the wiki as I noted above, and is an alternative if folks can't get straight SN.

Also, the SS wiki has not been updated in a long time and there's is a lot more reliable information now about SN. Just venting. I don't have the motivation to fix anything, but I know there are folks who do.

 

[Tintypographer]

It is possible but not advisable to try to commit suicide by ingesting salt or salt water. While a death by hyponatremia is certainly possible you would have feelings of extreme thirst followed by dizziness, confusion and terrible headaches caused by brain swelling. Death is not certain and it's probably not pleasant. Your body doesn't treat sodium chloride as a toxin at all and it doesn't interfere with any respiratory or neurological functions except at either very high or low concentrations and the kidneys work very efficiently fighting against the imbalances.

The nitrite salts are not affecting your respiratory transport just by being ions. The nitrite actually binds to the heme molecule interfering with oxygen transport.

I would not recommend trying to commit suicide by consuming large quantities of sodium chloride, sodiumm bicarbonate (baking soda) are both things that will be difficult to be poisoned by. Epsom salts which include magnesium sulfate cause diarrhea and vomiting and will likely clear you out before you are poisoned.

At the very highest level, no one should come up with random chemical cocktails to ingest as a means of suicide. Certain things can be toxic but we know the lethal doses of almost any chemical. Simply choosing things because they sound similar or are in desperation is foolish and you are in danger of either getting violently I'll and not committing suicide or causing damage to organs but surviving with worse phsyiology than you had prior to taking them.

Please do research beyond simply guessing and reading things online or soliciting opinions online.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Please do research beyond simply guessing and reading things online or soliciting opinions online.

Can you advise the sources to go to for such research?

 

[Tintypographer]

The LD 50 is the first component thatneasures the lethality of a compound. Information on the way LD50 works is here:

Dose-Response Relationships In Toxicology

A sample list of chemicals and their relative toxicities can be found in this paper:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw2Shx0i-8K2KnLikcofSmB-&cshid=1589342561000

[/URL]

Note that the LD50 is not the amount needed to kill a human, that is the does in mg/kg of bodyweight that kills 50 percent of the population of rats or mice in a toxicity test.

There are also a number of publications on poisonous plants that list very toxic plants and substances.

I can't speak for the availability of many of these chemicals but there are substances which are much more toxic to humans than sodium chloride.

 

[Living sucks]

This is why this is brought up for discussion.

 

[autumnal]

Maybe a megathread should be started about the use of sodium chloride, regular salt, as a method to ctb?
For those people in countries that can not obtain SN, you can surely obtain regular salt? It may not be as peaceful as SN, it might be identical to SN? Who knows? And the SN regimen might help with the salt method? If I wanted to use SN but couldn't get it, I would consider this? Thoughts?

A Systematic Review of Fatalities Related to Acute Ingestion of Salt. A Need for Warning Labels?

There are sporadic cases of fatalities from acutely eating salt. Yet, on social media, there are “challenges to” and examples of children and some adults acutely eating salt, and recently a charity advocated eating small amounts of salt ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

• Salt poisoning is completely different from SN poisoning.
• Salt poisoning is a very bad idea.

It is highly inaccurate and dangerous to suggest or assume that all salts are somehow similar in terms of mechanism or peacefulness. There is no doubt as to the fact that poisoning with regular salt is completely different from poisoning with SN.

Reviewing the relevant PPH chapter will give an idea of the timeframe and symptoms of SN poisoning.

These can be contrasted with those of salt poisoning, also excellently summarised above by @Tintypographer

SN is reliable, relatively fast and relatively peaceful. Poisoning from regular salt is none of these.

Please never rely on simplistic assumptions about chemistry merely because two things have an apparently similar name.

I also believe it would give false credibility to those assumptions to create a megathread on this 'method'. I don't know if the requirements are formally stated anywhere, but it would appear that megathreads are only created for credible methods (i.e. SN, hanging) and not for generally unreliable or excessively painful ones (i.e. antifreeze, rat poison).

 

[Living sucks]

It is highly inaccurate and dangerous to suggest or assume that all salts are somehow similar in terms of mechanism or peacefulness. There is no doubt as to the fact that poisoning with regular salt is completely different from poisoning with SN.

There was never a suggestion or assumption that all salts are similar in anyway. It was posed as a question seeking answers.

FTR nothing was relied on and only posted a link to a study on salt deaths. This was merely a suggestion that was opened to gather feedback and evidence to examine its potential.

[QUOTE="autumnal, post: 715617, member: I I don't know if the requirements are formally stated anywhere, but it would appear that megathreads are only created for credible methods (i.e. SN, hanging) and not for generally unreliable or excessively painful ones (i.e. antifreeze, rat poison).

Determining a credible method requires, discussion, facts, evidence and actual events. I put it out there to gather these OR have it dispelled.

a discussion like this can also be used as reference for future questions about whether or not salt can be used as a method.

even the pph discusses the detergent method which most of us know is a bad idea.

i would like to point out that every sentence in my OP had a question mark after it. I made no claims or suggestions, I asked all questions.
I appreciate all the knowledgeable input.

 

[autumnal]

There was never a suggestion or assumption that all salts are similar in anyway. It was posed as a question seeking answers.

Determining a credible method requires, discussion, facts, evidence and actual events. I put it out there to gather these OR have it dispelled.

a discussion like this can also be used as reference for future questions about whether or not salt can be used as a method.

even the pph discusses the detergent method which most of us know is a bad idea.

i would like to point out that every sentence in my OP had a question mark after it. I made no claims or suggestions, I asked all questions.
I appreciate all the knowledgeable input.

That's not really an appropriate analogy. The PPH only reluctantly raises the detergent method with the express purpose of recommending against it as a 'cheap and nasty suicide strategy'.

And I'm sorry, but making statements like [salt] 'Can't be that much worse than SN, taste and effects?' or 'these people might have essentially the same method [salt] right in their cabinet ?' come across more as assertions of fact than questions, even if you do place a question mark at the end. Hence the need for clear and assertive responses to disprove these 'questions' and prevent anyone else from harm due to misinformation.

It also doesn't help your claim about merely wanting to 'gather' facts and evidence about salt that you subsequently posted a comment against SN, despite all of the facts and evidence in support of it ('And I disagree that SN is painless. I don't believe that statement can be made with such conviction').

All in all this isn't a personal attack against you or anything. But I stand by my position that your post got the response it both required and deserved.

 

[Living sucks]

That's not really an appropriate analogy. The PPH only reluctantly raises the detergent method with the express purpose of recommending against it as a 'cheap and nasty suicide strategy'.

And I'm sorry, but making statements like [salt] 'Can't be that much worse than SN, taste and effects?' or 'these people might have essentially the same method [salt] right in their cabinet ?' come across more as assertions of fact than questions, even if you do place a question mark at the end. Hence the need for clear and assertive responses to disprove these 'questions' and prevent anyone else from harm due to misinformation.

It also doesn't help your claim about merely wanting to 'gather' facts and evidence about salt that you subsequently posted a comment against SN, despite all of the facts and evidence in support of it ('And I disagree that SN is painless. I don't believe that statement can be made with such conviction').

All in all this isn't a personal attack against you or anything. But I stand by my position that your post got the response it both required and deserved.

My comment about the pph and detergent were to point out that even a bad method was discussed to prove it was bad.

They weren't statements, they were questions. You're interpretating them as statements. I was sincerely posing the question..what if the people who desperately want SN might have something similar available? If that's absolutely not that case than it's great to find this out before anyone tries it.

There are no facts and evidence that support that SN is painless. I stand by this statement and it has nothing to do with this post. I am worried to use SN bcuz of my stomach ailments and for this same reason, I would not ingest regular salt so this isn't even a method i would do. I was not trying to tout a method and gain support, I was simply asking the question, what about this method?

@peacefullpainless and @Tintypographer brought valid and clear evidence and references and presented them matter of factly that helped to gather evidence that unfortunately this wasn't going to be the answer for those who can't get SN and my response was :

This is why this is brought up for discussion.

While your response feels degrading like you need to discredit me. I am able accept criticism and admit if I'm wrong, There's no need to belittle someone for hoping to solve a problem for unfortunate people.

i knew this thread would either be a bit of hope for some or an unfortunately terrible method to ctb. I was ok with either outcome.

Thank you

 

[autumnal]

My comment about the pph and detergent were to point out that even a bad method was discussed to prove it was bad.

They weren't statements, they were questions. You're interpretating them as statements. I was sincerely posing the question..what if the people who desperately want SN might have something similar available? If that's absolutely not that case than it's great to find this out before anyone tries it.

There are no facts and evidence that support that SN is painless. I stand by this statement and it has nothing to do with this post. I am worried to use SN bcuz of my stomach ailments and for this same reason, I would not ingest regular salt so this isn't even a method i would do. I was not trying to tout a method and gain support, I was simply asking the question, what about this method?

@peacefullpainless and @Tintypographer brought valid and clear evidence and references and presented them matter of factly that helped to gather evidence that unfortunately this wasn't going to be the answer for those who can't get SN and my response was :



While your response feels degrading like you need to discredit me. I am able accept criticism and admit if I'm wrong, There's no need to belittle someone for hoping to solve a problem for unfortunate people.

i knew this thread would either be a bit of hope for some or an unfortunately terrible method to ctb. I was ok with either outcome.

Thank you

My response was not intended to be degrading. If I have misread the intention behind your phrasing, then I apologise.

Your statements about SN are incorrect (and demonstrably so) but as you mention that is not the focus of this thread, and has doubtless been covered elsewhere.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

I vaguely remember this being a common method somewhere in Asia. Not something I would do if I had access to a better method.

 

[Ilpiccoloskywalker]

This infographic is strange, it says that 6L of water is lethal but you need 28L of coffee?

You clearly are american lol
In Italy coffee means a little cup, the cup is even smaller than a shot glass.
100 cups are not 20L by any chance
'Muricans

 

[Nuclear Gandhi]

You clearly are american lol
In Italy coffee means a little cup, the cup is even smaller than a shot glass.
100 cups are not 20L by any chance
'Muricans

Don't want to ruin your fun assuming other person's nationality based on absolutely nothing, but I am pretty sure the poster calculated the amount from volumes given in infographic. 1 cup = 240 ml. 118 cups needed to succeed. 240*118 = 28320 ml or approximately 28 L of coffee.
Sorry for offtop.

 

[Aap]

Let me just relay that people (and animals) diehorrible deaths by excess sodium consumption (often from soy sauce), and if they survive often face serious and irreparable neurologic disfunction. I'm not going to go into the mechanisms for this, but let me again say don't do it. Seriously, don't even entertain the idea.

 

[deadpixels]

Don't want to ruin your fun assuming other person's nationality based on absolutely nothing, but I am pretty sure the poster calculated the amount from volumes given in infographic. 1 cup = 240 ml. 118 cups needed to succeed. 240*118 = 28320 ml or approximately 28 L of coffee.
Sorry for offtop.

Thanks for saving me an answer.
That's exactly what I did. I think it's supposed to be the amount needed to die by caffeine OD, but that makes no sense if we will die by overhydration first.

 

[breachingthevoid]

Sodium azide is also painful but there's a megathread on it. Essentially there all salts.
And I disagree that SN is painless. I don't believe that statement can be made with such conviction.

I agree...I don't think that we can say SN is totally "painless". Have a look at all of the successful attempts and their details and you'll see vomiting, moaning, labored breathing, etc. So how do we know those people are not in any pain? I don't think I've seen any completely "painless" method except for maybe Secobarbital or Pentobarbital, as prescribed in Oregon (in watching the suicides in the documentary "How to Die in Oregon", it looked as though from those drugs the patients experienced slight dizziness, relaxation and were "out" in about 3 to 5 minutes without any vomiting, moaning, etc.)

In terms of regular "salt"...yes it's possible, but that's a painful way to go and it takes a LONG time. I wouldn't want to use that method unless you don't care at all about things being slow and painful.

 

[Tintypographer]

Every chemical (and all things that are not wave functions or particles within nuclear reactions are chemicals) have a calculable LD50. Toxicologists calculate this LD50 with an experiment when needed by a murine (mouse) model in which the animal is subjected to either an oral ingestion or tail vein iv injection of the substance. The animals are weighed and the dosage that it takes to kill of 50 percent of the population is calculated in mg/kg of body weight. In some cases the LD50 is actually higher than the mass of the animals themselves meaning that you could actually kill the animal faster and easier by dropping the material on them. Isotonic saline which is the pH ionic strength of your bodily fluids and serum has a LD 50 but it is so high that the material is non toxic. Water which is not isotonic is also non toxic but you could theoretically drink enough and not replace salts enough to cause a lethal dose of water. But in this case you would be better off using the water as a physical means of death like suffocation or drowning.

When we speak of chemical deaths such as lethal injection in capital punishment we typically talk about the LD50 from acute toxicity. Ethanol has a LD50 that is acute where the body ingests far too much ethanol at one time and the liver can't process the toxicity of the ethanol and acetaldehyde byproducts and that can lead to acute renal toxicity that then inhibits respiratory function leading to.death. this occurs with binge drinking at frat parties on occasional news programs. Not a guaranteed death and the doctors can administer charcoal to stop up the chemicals and even run dialysis and clean things up. Ethanol also has a chronic toxicity leading to a LD50 over long periods that causes death by liver failure establishing what chronic alcoholics have as liver disease that they often die from.

I think what we are all discussing is the acute toxicity of a chemical and the resulting pain or lack thereof for a death by suicide. A lot has been studied in this area. The lethal injection in capital punishment is typically a cocktail of drugs beginning with a sedative or barbiturate to render the person unconscious followed immediately by a potassium chloride solution. Potassium chloride, a salt that is quite similar to sodium chloride (just one row down on the same column from sodium to potassium) interferes with the regular neurotransmitter control for the signals that permanently keep your heart beating. So it induces cardiac arrest. They further introduce a muscle paralytic agent called pancuronium bromide which interferes with the neurotransmitters that cause you to breathe.

In humans halting the capability to transmit oxygen and convert ATP into muscle contraction kills a person. Very quickly. The potent nerve toxins VX or sarin interfere with the receptors that cause you to involuntarily breathe. If that mechanism shuts down you have minutes to live.

Most chemical deaths rely on stopping either the pathways for your heart muscles to function or your respiratory neurotransmitters to work. These are actually evolutionarily hard to half and that makes sense because if they stopped easily we would be much more likely to die by brushing up against something or tasti g something random.

All this to say, random attempts at toxic suicide aren't good ideas. One could eat enough sand, metal shavings, dry ice, fishing line or crayon wax to cause some problem that eventually could be lethal but the toxic dose either acute or chronic is so high that you would more likely get sick or pass the material before it did you harm.

The list of poisonous plants and their derivatives are documented and have very low concentrations for LD50. Sodium Nitrite has a documented mg/kg toxic dose to induce the methemoglobin oxygen transport problem leading to a fast respiratory death, botulinium toxin which is found and produced by bacteria in dust and a common contaminant in home food canning is the most toxic substance known to man requiring 1-3 nanograms (1/1000th of a milligram-so small you can't see it) per kilogram of body weight to ianduce respiratory arrest and be acutely lethal.

Carbon monoxide as a gas binding to the heme distal histidine inhibiting oxygen transport is acutely lethal at doses much less than cyanide and binds more securely inducing death in minutes.


But I am advising everyone and anyone to not reach for novel substitutions of molecules as a means of creating a suicide. Some chemicals are toxic enough to cause damage and nothing more while others are not toxic and cause discomfort and problems that can leave you damaged but still very much alive.

I am a professional chemist with experience in both chemistry and medicine and my only recommendation here is to review the reason you are selecting a chemical and the purpose and ensure that the physiological effects of that choice match the endpoints of what you intend. Swallowing a ton of cement over time will probably result in stoppage and could induce long term GI problems that may kill you over time. Having a ton of cement dropped on your head from a great height can result in a blunt force trauma death that is much more likely to cause death than treating it as a toxic chemical.