Quick thought: There is no heroism in staying alive and "fighting"

[Cryptonite]

When you have a severe physical or mental disease, waiting until you die from age is not bravery.

In fact, it is the exact opposite. "Fighting it" and staying alive is, in a way, a comfortable position, where you don't have to question the most primal fear, the fear of death.

Truly brave people would choose short-term horror for permanent relief.

What do you think?

 

[Rounded Agony]

I think it's kinda neutral. We're generally compelled to stay alive by a range of biological imperatives; continuing to do so despite additional challenges is harder and more miserable, but I would not say there's anything brave about doing something it'd be harder not to do. I think the misuse of "strong" applies the same way. It's just a bunch of competing forces...as much as I'd love to wither away in bed, there are too many other living things and moving parts to this meat container that want me to move, eat, and pathetically try to satisfy things they want.

 

[almaranthine]

Hm, I wouldn't say it's necessarily comfortable, but passive. Staying alive and "fighting" or just miserably suffering until death occurs is the passive choice. It's not objectively easier than taking the steps to end one's life and pain, but it doesn't require action, merely just forces one to continue to deal with the negative situation and survive regardless of quality of life. I get what you're expressing though. It takes serious courage and mental fortitude to decide, "fuck this, I'm done living," and take the actions needed to achieve that end, whereas just deciding to continue to be dragged on by life and it's general miseries is complacent in a sense.

 

[looseye]

I think people have different understandings of bravery, I ain't gonna judge

 

[Hollowillow]

I am so sick i can't even read... It takes bravery to admit defeat, let go of hopes & dreams... And die

 

[GrumpyFrog]

I think bravery is facing the thing you are afraid of, be it living or death. However, I don't really believe that pointless, purposeless bravery and facing your fears for the sake of it is really that admirable. "Do the thing you're scared of to prove you can" is a bit absurd in my opinion, overcoming the fear should have a purpose. If you have no real, genuine reason to suffer through fear and pain, choosing not to suffer through them is not "cowardice" - it's reasonable caution.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

I have lost touch with concepts of heroism and bravery… I can relate more to animals or insects or vegetables which operate on biological necessity and expedience.

 

[Sourdough]

When you have a severe physical or mental disease, waiting until you die from age is not bravery.

In fact, it is the exact opposite. "Fighting it" and staying alive is, in a way, a comfortable position, where you don't have to question the most primal fear, the fear of death.

Truly brave people would choose short-term horror for permanent relief.

What do you think?

This is a slippery slope. I don't think you should encourage suicide. It's a deeply personal decision.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I certainly agree that the action of CTB is very frightening and the most dangerous thing we as mortals can do- so physically- yes- it's 'brave' to do it and I ABSOLUTELY hate it when it is labelled 'cowardice.'

It also involves overcoming a massive amount of fear and worry to carry out- fear of failure and the possible repercussions of that, fear of pain, worry of the effect it will have on those left behind, fear of a possible afterlife/ nothing (depending on what you believe in and how you feel about it).

As a concept though- I expect to the majority of us- an indeterminate amount more of this 'living' shit (possibly decades) likely sounds a lot more scary than an early exit. Especially IF you're not afraid of an afterlife/ a lack of afterlife.

Facing an afterlife you fear could be the bravest thing you could ever do- depending on how 'bad' you think it has the potential to be. It's the greatest unknown.

However, this is a very personal take on it but to my mind I suppose- whereas 'courage' is about overcoming fear of danger to do something you find scary, 'bravery' (to me anyway) contains a moral aspect. People we describe as 'brave' have usually encountered danger in order to protect or save OTHERS. We usually commit CTB to 'save' ourselves from our own suffering.

From a personal perspective, my Grandma was in pain everyday. I don't actually know whether she considered CTB but she certainly wanted to die. I believe she fought on for as long as she did mainly to be there for her family. I do actually see that as 'brave' act because it is selfless. I expect this will attract a lot of hate but while I think it is perfectly justified, I feel morally, suicide is USUALLY a selfish act. (Not saying it's 'wrong'- just saying it's usually motivated by our own 'interests'.)

So, on the one hand I would say it was brave to overcome social conventions and the all the fear surrounding CTB to attempt it. On the other, I think people who hang on to spare others of the grief it would cause are also brave.

 

[freevoid]

It will be different for everyone. Different life circumstances, brain chemistry, level of survival instinct, level of brainwashing from religion and society.

Bravery is in the eye of the beholder. As is delusion or "insanity".

Everything is neutral and pointless until we make it otherwise.

 

[actual_fox]

Some people have others dependent on them, physically or emotionally- or are afraid to hurt others. So they are not fighting It because they are afraid of choice, but rather because they are on crossroads. It is huge dilemma.

 

[Idkaho2]

When you have a severe physical or mental disease, waiting until you die from age is not bravery.

In fact, it is the exact opposite. "Fighting it" and staying alive is, in a way, a comfortable position, where you don't have to question the most primal fear, the fear of death.

Truly brave people would choose short-term horror for permanent relief.

What do you think?

It depends? This is such an autistic post, like you can't understand the idea of empathy.

 

[FuneralCry]

I agree, there is nothing brave about staying here where suffering will just be prolonged day after day all for no purpose with the chance of it getting worse at any moment. I personally see no value to enduring pain, I mean if others do then that is their view, but nobody should be judged for wishing to leave behind a life that they never asked for.

The truth is that life is all for nothing and if the person doesn't see any benefit to being here then there is no point to it all. Struggling through horrible circumstances will not be rewarding in any way, at least in my opinion it will just cause more unnecessary suffering, staying alive is just delaying the inevitable as after all we will all die eventually someday.

 

[Sunset Limited]

It smells like a pro-life propaganda. Such challenges are an admission that, at the core of life, there is nothing worth experiencing.

 

[Euthanza]

The biggest battle one may experience is to fight yourself -like the teaching of Buddha, I translate to defeat survival instinct and win the suicidal ideation.

 

[Zegers]

Those who claim that ctb is cowardly is precisely because they would never dare to do it and are subjected to all the pain that life throws at them.

 

[Cryptonite]

Those who claim that ctb is cowardly is precisely because they would never dare to do it and are subjected to all the pain that life throws at them.

This

 

[Lonerzepam]

I am so sick i can't even read... It takes bravery to admit defeat, let go of hopes & dreams... And die

Yes man. I can confirm everything you saying from my own perspective. I have a rare neuro illness caused by SSRIs that destroyed my whole life. I had to give up everything life is worth living at least for me those things were. Drugs, The love of my life, My dream job, I really lost everything. I can't even read a book or watch a movie/play a video game cuz my condition. From weed to heroin. Thanks psychiatry. Just another statistic. How many lives is your profit worth big pharma. Sry venting I guess. But yet I'm still here. Fighting or just procrastanating with a pissback on my foot cuz I ODed on H again 2 days ago. Yeah fighting or dying. Fighting for what. Idk anymore tbh. Yet I'm still here. I just know that someone who's 22 shouldn't have to think about those things.

 

[never mind me]

I think it all depends on the person. Everybody has their own values and everybody has their own fears and their own stuff they have trouble dealing with. I would define being brave as acting according to your own values despite it being scary or tough and painful. So if somebody has decided for himself that he doesn't want to watch his physical health deteriorating past a certain level and realizes that he has reached this level due to terminal illness or old age, then the brave thing for this person would be to ctb. For another person who has decided for himself that life is a gift and that one should fight to live as long as they possibly can, the brave thing would be to keep fighting to stay alive despite being terminally ill and living with all the pain and discomfort this may bring.