Discussion Provocative thread: we should be like St. Thomas

[L'absent]

Official statistics tell us that about 1 in 10 people survive a gunshot wound to the head, often with permanent damage. But are we sure this is true?
Think about it: we have dozens, if not hundreds, of documented videos of people shooting themselves in the head, often in public or live contexts. In all these cases, however, the outcome is always the same: instant death.
If the statistic were correct, we should see at least one survivor for every 10 people who shoot themselves in the head in public. So why doesn't this happen? The gun doesn't magically become more lethal just because it's in front of a camera, yet survival seems nonexistent in these documented contexts.
Where are the survivors with permanent disabilities? Why aren't there videos showing their existence? The complete absence of such visual evidence completely contradicts the official data.
Are we sure the numbers aren't "adjusted" somehow? Like St. Thomas, we believe only what we see with our own eyes. Without visual evidence of survivors, can we really trust the statistics?
What do you think? Is this just a coincidence, or is there something more behind this discrepancy?

 

[ma0]

If people are interested in watching people shoot themselves in the head, they're obviously gonna watch videos where the person dies.

I think it's a case of the types of these videos being shared around. Maybe the streams of people surviving do exist, but people are just more interested in death, so those videos are more popular.

I actually have seen a video of someone surviving a shotgun blast to the head, so they certainly do exist.

 

[L'absent]

If people are interested in watching people shoot themselves in the head, they're obviously gonna watch videos where the person dies.

I think it's a case of the types of these videos being shared around. Maybe the streams of people surviving do exist, but people are just more interested in death, so those videos are more popular.

I actually have seen a video of someone surviving a shotgun blast to the head, so they certainly do exist.

Actually, I'm not talking about videos shared on gore sites or people shooting themselves in private. My reference is to much more public and documented situations, such as suicide attempts by politicians live or people shooting themselves in the head in public, in extreme contexts like those in war. In these cases, death is almost always instantaneous, with no concrete examples of survival, and this is what I refer to in the thread.
Even in conflict situations, where people are exposed to gunshot wounds to the head, there are no testimonies of survivors with permanent damage. If the statistics were correct, we should see at least one survivor for every 10 people who shoot themselves in the head, but in the available videos of public and documented situations, mortality is almost always instantaneous.
So, the point of my thread isn't just that death videos are more "popular," but that it questions a discrepancy between official numbers and what I observe in reality, especially in extreme contexts. The question remains: why don't we see visual evidence of survivors in these circumstances?

 

[KillingPain267]

A gunshot to the head is different than a gunshot to the head for the deliberate purpose of ctb. Many people survive gunshots where the aim wasn't good, and it didn't damage the brainstem. I think the 1/10 statistic is based on that? But someone who aims the firearm themselves is more likely to aim correctly and thus die, so the statistics on deliberate SELF-inflicted gunshots is over 95% death I think, based on what I have studied. If it's a shotgun to the head it's almost 99% risk of death.

Man I wish I was in America and could just buy a gun. I would play Russian roulette with it every morning like the scene with Richard Gere in Brooklyn's Finest.

 

[L'absent]

There have been several documented cases of public suicides, where death was immediate. Some of the best known include Salvador Allende, who committed suicide during the coup in Chile in 1973; Christine Chubbuck, the journalist who took her own life on live television in 1974; and Budd Dwyer, an American politician who committed suicide live on air in 1987. In the 1970s and 1980s, during political protests in Asia, there were many public suicides with gunshots to the head, always resulting in immediate death. Even during the civil war in Lebanon, videos were broadcast on the news of people shooting themselves, but the death was always instantaneous. These examples show that, in such contexts, surviving a blow to the head is virtually impossible, with immediate death in all documented cases. I am looking for video documentation of people who have shot themselves and even survived with disabilities. So you can also see the type of weapon used in the failure and the location of the weapon in the head.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

i haven't seen a video of someone surviving a gunshot to the head. all the ones i saw were instant lights out Death. and i saw a lot on especially on watchpeopledie website

 

[L'absent]

A gunshot to the head is different than a gunshot to the head for the deliberate purpose of ctb. Many people survive gunshots where the aim wasn't good, and it didn't damage the brainstem. I think the 1/10 statistic is based on that? But someone who aims the firearm themselves is more likely to aim correctly and thus die, so the statistics on deliberate SELF-inflicted gunshots is over 95% death I think, based on what I have studied. If it's a shotgun to the head it's almost 99% risk of death.

Man I wish I was in America and could just buy a gun. I would play Russian roulette with it every morning like the scene with Richard Gere in Brooklyn's Finest.

Indeed, the statistics do not distinguish between suicide, homicide, area of the head affected, etc. I know that my experience is worth little. But all those who shot themselves in my geographical area (even speaking to the elderly) died practically instantly. No one has ever told me the story of someone being taken to the hospital and dying hours or days later, much less surviving.

 

[Greyhawk]

Most of the people who made these studies' and published the statistics are pro-life and it's not rare that researchers nudge the results in the direction that fits their agenda. And even if the survival rate was high, the chance of surviving is virtually zero if you can find a secluded place.

 

[TransilvanianHunger]

If the statistic were correct, we should see at least one survivor for every 10 people who shoot themselves in the head in public. So why doesn't this happen?

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of statistics. "1 out of every 10 people" doesn't mean that, literally, if you see 10 suicide attempts you'll see 9 successes and 1 failure. Try flipping a coin 10 times; statistically there's a 50/50 chance of heads or tails, but in reality you'll very rarely get 5 tails and 5 heads.

Besides that, there is no single "gunshot wound to the head" that can be studied—there are dozens of variables that affect the outcome: the type of gun, the caliber of the bullet, the position of the gun, movement of the neck and head during the shot, the trajectory of the bullet, etc. There's also the matter of how you define "survival". Do they die instantly? Do they survive for a few minutes or hours? Not sure if I'd want to shoot myself in the head if I'm sure I'll die, but I get to spend a few hours with my skull blown open before it happens.

But all those who shot themselves in my geographical area (even speaking to the elderly) died practically instantly. No one has ever told me the story of someone being taken to the hospital and dying hours or days later, much less surviving.

This is also faulty logic. If you're a researcher in this area, an ER doctor/nurse, or someone else who might be in a position to know about these things, you can't honestly say that "all people who do it" get this or that outcome, because your data set is limited. Even specialists might not be aware of the full picture unless they study the subject in depth. "No one has ever told me that this happens" does not mean said thing does not happen.

 

[emptygal]

maybe this list of people helps!

10 People Who Survived Suicide Attempts By Gunshot To The Head - Listverse

Suicide is an epidemic that we tend to think of as a modern thing. While suicide rates have gotten worse in the US and are projected to get worse in

listverse.com

 

[slinkey10]

Official statistics tell us that about 1 in 10 people survive a gunshot wound to the head, often with permanent damage. But are we sure this is true?
Think about it: we have dozens, if not hundreds, of documented videos of people shooting themselves in the head, often in public or live contexts. In all these cases, however, the outcome is always the same: instant death.
If the statistic were correct, we should see at least one survivor for every 10 people who shoot themselves in the head in public. So why doesn't this happen? The gun doesn't magically become more lethal just because it's in front of a camera, yet survival seems nonexistent in these documented contexts.
Where are the survivors with permanent disabilities? Why aren't there videos showing their existence? The complete absence of such visual evidence completely contradicts the official data.
Are we sure the numbers aren't "adjusted" somehow? Like St. Thomas, we believe only what we see with our own eyes. Without visual evidence of survivors, can we really trust the statistics?
What do you think? Is this just a coincidence, or is there something more behind this discrepancy?

love that youve referenced St Thomas - im a St. Teresa of Ávila fan.

"Without visual evidence of survivors, can we really trust the statistics?" .....IMO no. 'Obey meme' comes to mind , "believe what you're told not what you see". Your goverment loves u and all that bs.

Discernment of spirit!

 

[KillingPain267]

Indeed, the statistics do not distinguish between suicide, homicide, area of the head affected, etc. I know that my experience is worth little. But all those who shot themselves in my geographical area (even speaking to the elderly) died practically instantly. No one has ever told me the story of someone being taken to the hospital and dying hours or days later, much less surviving.

Yeah, and your experience fits with the studies. The 1/10 survivors statistic you heard must have counted headshots from homicides, accidents, executions, war etc. because in those situations there are actually many who survived (but most with permanent injuries). I even learned of a war veteran a few days ago who was shot in the head and damaged a part of his brain to where he didn't need to sleep for the rest of his life! (Although he may have gotten some microsleep every day). I also recently saw a video of a guy who shot the boyfriend of his ex and then himself in the head. He fell to the ground but then managed to shoot himself a second time. But yes, the vast majority (>95%) die from one shot immediately.

 

[L'absent]

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of statistics. "1 out of every 10 people" doesn't mean that, literally, if you see 10 suicide attempts you'll see 9 successes and 1 failure. Try flipping a coin 10 times; statistically there's a 50/50 chance of heads or tails, but in reality you'll very rarely get 5 tails and 5 heads.

Besides that, there is no single "gunshot wound to the head" that can be studied—there are dozens of variables that affect the outcome: the type of gun, the caliber of the bullet, the position of the gun, movement of the neck and head during the shot, the trajectory of the bullet, etc. There's also the matter of how you define "survival". Do they die instantly? Do they survive for a few minutes or hours? Not sure if I'd want to shoot myself in the head if I'm sure I'll die, but I get to spend a few hours with my skull blown open before it happens.

Thank you for your observation, but my point isn't about the theoretical probability or the variables that can influence the outcome of a gunshot wound to the head. I'm aware that "1 in 10" is a statistical average and that outcomes can vary depending on numerous factors, such as the type of weapon, the shot's position, and the bullet's trajectory.
However, what I'm highlighting is a discrepancy between the reported statistics and documented cases with visual proof, such as videos or public testimonies. If 10% of people truly survive a gunshot to the head, we would expect to find at least one documented case in public situations or videos where someone survives, even with permanent damage. Instead, the documented cases always show immediate death, even when the variables differ (e.g., caliber, angle, etc.).
My point is not to deny the complexity of medical variables but to emphasize that the visible and verifiable data seem to contradict the general statistic. This is what I find interesting and want to explore further.

 

[KillingPain267]

love that youve referenced St Thomas - im a St. Teresa of Ávila fan.

"Without visual evidence of survivors, can we really trust the statistics?" .....IMO no. 'Obey meme' comes to mind , "believe what you're told not what you see". Your goverment loves u and all that bs.

Discernment of spirit!

Except that the point of the St. Thomas passage is the opposite. John 20:29: "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

The problem is not science, but bad science, or the media who simplify the science. The statistics I have seen of deliberate self-inflicted gunshots to the head for suicide, the death rate is over 95%. With shotgun it's close to 99%.

 

[L'absent]

maybe this list of people helps!

10 People Who Survived Suicide Attempts By Gunshot To The Head - Listverse

Suicide is an epidemic that we tend to think of as a modern thing. While suicide rates have gotten worse in the US and are projected to get worse in

listverse.com

Thank you. Are there videos of the shooting?

 

[TransilvanianHunger]

Thank you for your observation, but my point isn't about the theoretical probability or the variables that can influence the outcome of a gunshot wound to the head. I'm aware that "1 in 10" is a statistical average and that outcomes can vary depending on numerous factors, such as the type of weapon, the shot's position, and the bullet's trajectory.
However, what I'm highlighting is a discrepancy between the reported statistics and documented cases with visual proof, such as videos or public testimonies. If 10% of people truly survive a gunshot to the head, we would expect to find at least one documented case in public situations or videos where someone survives, even with permanent damage. Instead, the documented cases always show immediate death, even when the variables differ (e.g., caliber, angle, etc.).
My point is not to deny the complexity of medical variables but to emphasize that the visible and verifiable data seem to contradict the general statistic. This is what I find interesting and want to explore further.

That's fair. I still don't think that we have a complete data set regarding documented cases with visual proof — it seems highly likely to me that there are recorded instances of people shooting themselves and surviving, they're maybe just not as likely to spread around. And then, there are the cases where we simply don't have all the information. You mentioned Christine Chubbuck in another reply, for instance. As far as I can tell, she died in hospital, over 12 hours after shooting herself. Sure, she didn't survive, but it's a stretch to say that she died "instantly".

I've not researched this subject in any depth, but out of curiosity I dug around and found an article about self-inflicted gunshot wounds, and they claimed a fatality rate of around 95-98%, depending on various factors. So this "1 in 10" statistic might also be a case of oversimplified/bad reporting. Can't really say.

 

[KillingPain267]

If 10% of people truly survive a gunshot to the head, we would expect to find at least one documented case in public situations or videos where someone survives, even with permanent damage.

There are MANY such cases. Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, Devyn Holmes in 2018, Tammy Sexton shot by her husband in 2009 made tea after the headshot and Ryan Waller who was interrogated by police for 6 hours until they and himself realized he had a bullet in his head that lodged behind his eye. But yeah, they are all homicides and accidents. The Devyn Holmes case, there is a video of it. I thought he was for sure dead before I found the video referenced in an article and learned that he survived. Also, you could count Trump as a survivor of a headshot, which is on video. But obviously we know that it has nothing to do with suicide.

 

[slinkey10]

Except that the point of the St. Thomas passage is the opposite. John 20:29: "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

The problem is not science, but bad science, or the media who simplify the science. The statistics I have seen of deliberate self-inflicted gunshots to the head for suicide, the death rate is over 95%. With shotgun it's close to 99%.

I understand the religious angle, I.e. the whole believing in Jesus / God is believing but not seeing. Its called faith.

My point was stats and anything pumped out by government, think tanks etc etc is not to be believed.. unless you have a quote where Jesus says ...blindly belive/trust those in power?! & dont question anything - think he said the opposite.

I actually agree with your OP :)

 

[Lo$t95]

Official statistics tell us that about 1 in 10 people survive a gunshot wound to the head, often with permanent damage. But are we sure this is true?
Think about it: we have dozens, if not hundreds, of documented videos of people shooting themselves in the head, often in public or live contexts. In all these cases, however, the outcome is always the same: instant death.
If the statistic were correct, we should see at least one survivor for every 10 people who shoot themselves in the head in public. So why doesn't this happen? The gun doesn't magically become more lethal just because it's in front of a camera, yet survival seems nonexistent in these documented contexts.
Where are the survivors with permanent disabilities? Why aren't there videos showing their existence? The complete absence of such visual evidence completely contradicts the official data.
Are we sure the numbers aren't "adjusted" somehow? Like St. Thomas, we believe only what we see with our own eyes. Without visual evidence of survivors, can we really trust the statistics?
What do you think? Is this just a coincidence, or is there something more behind this discrepancy?

Gunshot to the head is guaranteed death. People who fuck it up somehow are in another league of retarded. Shoot the wrong place - how tf?

If I had easy access to a gun I would not be here.

 

[L'absent]

love that youve referenced St Thomas - im a St. Teresa of Ávila fan.

"Without visual evidence of survivors, can we really trust the statistics?" .....IMO no. 'Obey meme' comes to mind , "believe what you're told not what you see". Your goverment loves u and all that bs.

Discernment of spirit!

I appreciate the reference to Saint Teresa of Avila, but I doubt even she could 'levitate' with a 9mm hole in her head. And as for 'discernment of the spirit,' I'd say with a Glock pointed at your temple, you'd discern the spirit pretty quickly… maybe even from the other side.

 

[slinkey10]

I appreciate the reference to Saint Teresa of Avila, but I doubt even she could 'levitate' with a 9mm hole in her head. And as for 'discernment of the spirit,' I'd say with a Glock pointed at your temple, you'd discern the spirit pretty quickly… maybe even from the other side.

lol made me laugh.

You Clearly Know St. Teresa of Ávila & the levitating !

 

[KillingPain267]

I understand the religious angle, I.e. the whole believing in Jesus / God is believing but not seeing. Its called faith.

My point was stats and anything pumped out by government, think tanks etc etc is not to be believed.. unless you have a quote where Jesus says ...blindly belive/trust those in power?! & dont question anything - think he said the opposite.

I actually agree with your OP :)

Yeah, I'm an anarchist pacifist, so I definitely don't blindly believe anything made by those in power. But neither does it mean I should just blindly believe the opposite of what they say. Sometimes those who have alternative data are also backed by the powerful rich who have an agenda of just taking over another power. The truth is often buried somewhere deep, and it takes work to find it, but it is there. So on the topic of this post, the statistics for SUICIDE headshots, it is over 95% death immediately, almost 99% if by shotgun. But there are well-documented and even videotaped failed suicide headshots, even with shotguns.

Gunshot to the head is guaranteed death. People who fuck it up somehow are in another league of retarded. Shoot the wrong place - how tf?

If I had easy access to a gun I would not be here.

There are some who flinch last moment or do it while drunk to gather courage to pull the trigger, but yeah, in every survivor (albeit few) it was due to the brainstem not getting damaged. Damage the brainstem and it is 100% guarantee, no exceptions.