Pro lifers on this website.

[FuneralCry]

It seems as though recently there have been quite a few pro lifers around here, the type of people who see suicide as being something wrong and dismiss the suffering that exists in this world and how cruel existence really is. I think that I have posted about this before, but I just think that in general pro lifers can be irritating. It's the last thing that suicidal people who are already suffering enough need to see. I don't understand why pro lifers would come on a suicide forum in the first place but I guess that it's best not to pay that much attention when they come on here.

In a world as cruel as this I could never understand those who are pro life. Things could get much worse for anyone after all. I think that the best solution would be to legalise euthanasia and make peaceful methods easily accessible so then nobody would have to research suicide and post about it on the internet. Suicide forums should never need to exist, those who come on here just for methods and find a way to leave are lucky, for many people like me suicide is just so difficult. If only there is an option to just fall into an eternal sleep.

 

[a_dead_mess]

I wish you the best in life funeralCry, and as you said the best thing to do is to ignore these pro-lifers because their opinions don't affect the suffering we endure in any way.

 

[GentleJerk]

Pro-lifers?! Quick! Hang them all so it looks like suicide! I'll get the rope.

 

[PPEcel]

By pro-lifers you aren't referring to the abortion issue, right? I'm still kinda new here.

 

[GentleJerk]

By pro-lifers you aren't referring to the abortion issue, right? I'm still kinda new here.

It's a blanket term used by many members of this site, to refer to anyone who has an anti-suicide mentality.

I know. Classy, right?

 

[PPEcel]

It's a blanket term used by many members of this site, to refer to anyone who has an anti-suicide mentality.

I know. Classy, right?

they should be referred to as anti-choicers

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Why are pro-lifers on this webside a problem? I believe in freedom of speech and that the better arguments will win.

 

[a_dead_mess]

Why are pro-lifers on this webside a problem? I believe in freedom of speech and that the better arguments will win.

I get what you're saying but this place, for some people at least, acts as a safe space for them to vent about their problems and what they're going through not somewhere where arguments take place. I wouldn't want a pro-lifer commenting on my ctb post convincing me life gets better when I've spent a lot of time rationalizing suicide and thinking about just that.

 

[FrozenMango]

Why are pro-lifers on this webside a problem? I believe in freedom of speech and that the better arguments will win.

because suicidal people didn't come here to "argue". They are looking for a safe space. The question to anti choice folks is why they keep annoying suicidal people? they are not helping anybody

 

[Rapière]

You should check if there are Pro-lifers hiding in your closet or under your bed.

 

[Foresight]

Why are pro-lifers on this webside a problem? I believe in freedom of speech and that the better arguments will win.

They're argumentative in the worst places. We recently had a person disturbing a very respectful individual in their goodbye thread. There's a blatant lack of respect most of the time. I've seen more than one goodbye thread disrupted and that's unacceptable. If you're joining just to spark debate in inappropriate threads you can't be here.

I'm all for open conversations throughout but disrespect can't be tolerated. Unfortunately, these people have a tendency to be disrespectful and inappropriately contrarian. This site is a pro-choice community. These debates can happen anywhere else on the internet.

 

[Lost Magic]

They can be pro-life all they want, so long as they don't thrust their loving life views onto others. Sadly, they do. The worst kind are the I can do it, so can you mob. I think they are inspired by millionaire hucksters dressed up as motivational speakers. What a fake world we live in.

 

[want2dienow]

Why are pro-lifers on this webside a problem? I believe in freedom of speech and that the better arguments will win.

Simple.
I don't need them to tell me what I cannot do with my body This applies to sex workers, so should it with suicide. Got it?
No need for arguments, this isn't the cesspool of terrible that is reddit.

 

[Jrmull1993]

Why are pro-lifers on this webside a problem? I believe in freedom of speech and that the better arguments will win.

I agree with free speech, that's why I believe in this website. Everyone is entitled to their belief, but there comes a point when a particular view is not always acceptable.

It's no different that if I was to join an anti-suicide forum and encourage suicide there.

 

[Maravillosa]

Hmmm... I think I would be a pro-lifer regarding euthanasia/ctb if I did not have double depression (major depression + dysthymia) and PTSD, as well as a history of borderline personality disorder. After all, I am a practicing Catholic who is very much pro-life in the matters of abortion, war, and the death penalty. If my mental health were better and I did not have frequent suicidal ideation, then I don't think I could understand the point of Sanctioned Suicide, and would fervently oppose it. However, since I do often have suicidal thoughts, I think I can understand the point of this site, and empathize with many of the posters on this site despite their not being Catholic or even (much of the time) not believing in God. Every night I pray for (among others) the repose of the souls of the members of Sanctioned Suicide who have ctb -- some by name or handle, others (whose names or handles I do not know) more generally. I realize that many of you might think praying that the souls of people who have ctb quickly go to Heaven is useless, but it gives me comfort -- and I hope it does help the souls of people who have ctb.

What do you think?

 

[Forever Sleep]

Hmmm... I think I would be a pro-lifer regarding euthanasia/ctb if I did not have double depression (major depression + dysthymia) and PTSD, as well as a history of borderline personality disorder. After all, I am a practicing Catholic who is very much pro-life in the matters of abortion, war, and the death penalty. If my mental health were better and I did not have frequent suicidal ideation, then I don't think I could understand the point of Sanctioned Suicide, and would fervently oppose it. However, since I do often have suicidal thoughts, I think I can understand the point of this site, and empathize with many of the posters on this site despite their not being Catholic or even (much of the time) not believing in God. Every night I pray for (among others) the repose of the souls of the members of Sanctioned Suicide who have ctb -- some by name or handle, others (whose names or handles I do not know) more generally. I realize that many of you might think praying that the souls of people who have ctb quickly go to Heaven is useless, but it gives me comfort -- and I hope it does help the souls of people who have ctb.

What do you think?

I hope I try to respect other people's viewpoints- we have all lived unique lives which have shaped us to think the way we do. I see pro-lifers as kind of sweet/lucky/resilient/maybe naive- so long as they aren't trying to force everyone to see life the way they do.

Religion is a compelling force if you truly believe. I do understand. Maybe not in every case but I'm actually pro-abortion. The simple tragic fact is that the child is unwanted. I guess it may end up living a good life but I would imagine the odds are very much against it. I guess I'm just curious about your ideas- do you think even victims of rape shouldn't be allowed to abort? Sorry- I don't mean to attack you. I'm just curious I suppose. I guess there's the argument that it's still a life you're killing.

I imagine you also struggle with the idea of suicide itself? I wasn't raised to be strictly religious but there were ideas of God/heaven/hell growing up and it is something that still troubles me.

War is just awful and honestly, our race just baffles and disgusts me. Still, sadly I don't see how things will ever change. The death penalty I really have so many contradictory thoughts on. I just don't know what I think really.

I do understand that your ideas are interwoven with your faith. I guess I just have a problem with most religions I suppose. I agree- the Catholic religion seems very pro-life- I'm not very knowledgeable- so- please forgive me if I'm wrong but I believe they are/were: anti-contraception and anti-abortion. Trouble is- I feel perhaps the biggest problem to the world's ecological survival is human over-population. It's my personal belief that religion is a largely man-made construct and while it may have been beneficial at one time to expand the human population, it really isn't now. It's my personal feeling that religions can sometimes create more problems than they solve but again- that's my own personal view.

I think it's lovely that you pray for those who have gone. I'm not madly keen on the assumption that suicides go to hell (although I don't think you were saying that) but I think it's loving to wish the best for people-alive and dead. I wish you all the best.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

I agree with free speech, that's why I believe in this website. Everyone is entitled to their belief, but there comes a point when a particular view is not always acceptable.

It's no different that if I was to join an anti-suicide forum and encourage suicide there.

I understand what you mean, a pro-lifers on this forum is like homophobia on a gay website. So why don´t you ban them?

 

[MountainMonkey]

I do not impose my beliefs onto others and expect the same respect. I love how we've been conditioned by governments to vote on topics that are none of the government's business. Dumb ass world.

 

[Hope:-)]

The problem I have with them is I don't believe they give any more of a s@@@ about the people who commit suicide when they are still alive than the next person, That's those who suffer from mental illness, the terminally ill, the homeless, those with degenerative illnesses, those who've had sad, horrific lives and continue to have so...they make us feel crap and unwanted while we're alive but I'm supposed to live for that because they suddenly value my life in death??No.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

The problem I have with them is I don't believe they give any more of a s@@@ about the people who commit suicide when they are still alive than the next person, That's those who suffer from mental illness, the terminally ill, the homeless, those with degenerative illnesses, those who've had sad, horrific lives and continue to have so...they make us feel crap and unwanted while we're alive but I'm supposed to live for that because they suddenly value my life in death??No.

Just good old fashioned virtue signaling.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Life is a gift!
The world is flat!
God is exist!

 

[Anonymous1997ES]

How could they register in the first place? I remember filling lots of complex questions including reasons, and registering with my main mail before changing it to a burner one... The only way they could've done so is feigning a story so they could join here... To do so just to invalidate others is beyond cruel...

That, or they developed a pro-life point of view after a couple of weeks or months after registering here... Sorry to hear that Funeral, hope someday humanity will realize that, sadly, life isn't for everyone, and while it's true that most people (like 70-80% of them), will likely never know what's like to feel to want to die, that doesn't mean it's not real... Honestly, I wish someday time travel is discovered, so people can have a second chance...

 

[Maravillosa]

I hope I try to respect other people's viewpoints- we have all lived unique lives which have shaped us to think the way we do. I see pro-lifers as kind of sweet/lucky/resilient/maybe naive- so long as they aren't trying to force everyone to see life the way they do.

Religion is a compelling force if you truly believe. I do understand. Maybe not in every case but I'm actually pro-abortion. The simple tragic fact is that the child is unwanted. I guess it may end up living a good life but I would imagine the odds are very much against it. I guess I'm just curious about your ideas- do you think even victims of rape shouldn't be allowed to abort? Sorry- I don't mean to attack you. I'm just curious I suppose. I guess there's the argument that it's still a life you're killing.

I imagine you also struggle with the idea of suicide itself? I wasn't raised to be strictly religious but there were ideas of God/heaven/hell growing up and it is something that still troubles me.

War is just awful and honestly, our race just baffles and disgusts me. Still, sadly I don't see how things will ever change. The death penalty I really have so many contradictory thoughts on. I just don't know what I think really.

I do understand that your ideas are interwoven with your faith. I guess I just have a problem with most religions I suppose. I agree- the Catholic religion seems very pro-life- I'm not very knowledgeable- so- please forgive me if I'm wrong but I believe they are/were: anti-contraception and anti-abortion. Trouble is- I feel perhaps the biggest problem to the world's ecological survival is human over-population. It's my personal belief that religion is a largely man-made construct and while it may have been beneficial at one time to expand the human population, it really isn't now. It's my personal feeling that religions can sometimes create more problems than they solve but again- that's my own personal view.

I think it's lovely that you pray for those who have gone. I'm not madly keen on the assumption that suicides go to hell (although I don't think you were saying that) but I think it's loving to wish the best for people-alive and dead. I wish you all the best.

Thank you for your considerate and judicious reply.

About abortion: I believe that although the parent(s) may not want the child, the unborn child is incapable of asking for death of its own accord. Children who were conceived in rape are not to blame for the crime of their father and do not deserve the death penalty before birth. I believe one should err on the side of life if the person whose life is to be ended has not actively asked to die (which is why I also oppose war and the death penalty — death is far too good to be used as a punishment). If the biological parents of the child do not want the child and/or are incapable of being exemplary parents (e.g., married to each other for life, loving, non-abusive), adoption (preferably open) should always be a live option.

About contraception: I also believe that human overpopulation is a big problem and the world population should be reduced, if not eliminated. However, since I believe that contraception is immoral, the only morally licit way to reduce overpopulation is to abstain from coitus. Here I disagree slightly with the Catholic Church. The Church believes that all forms of sex outside a lifelong, faithful, monogamous marriage are immoral. I can countenance non-penetrative sex (mutual masturbation, oral sex), which the Church would probably consider forms of sodomy. (I think the Catholic Church would say sodomy is not just anal sex between men, but almost all sex between two people that does not involve PIV: onanism is coitus interruptus and masturbation.) Although abstaining from coitus for life is difficult, it is possible. I am still technically a virgin (no coitus) at 55, even though when I was in my twenties, I engaged in mutual masturbation and oral sex. I did not realize then the Church considers those acts serious sins: I had thought they were sinful, but not mortal sins that can send someone to Hell if they remain unconfessed to a priest and unabsolved.

I do struggle a lot with the idea of suicide, even though I suspect I will probably ctb one of these days. I pray I would not go to Hell if I were to ctb, and fear that if I avoid Hell, I might languish in Purgatory for a long time. I want the souls of those who have ctb and are languishing in Purgatory to go swiftly to Heaven. The Catholic Church believes that praying for the souls of dead people helps them go to Heaven more quickly, so that is what I am doing.

Again, many thanks

 

[Forever Sleep]

Thank you for your considerate and judicious reply.

About abortion: I believe that although the parent(s) may not want the child, the unborn child is incapable of asking for death of its own accord. Children who were conceived in rape are not to blame for the crime of their father and do not deserve the death penalty before birth. I believe one should err on the side of life if the person whose life is to be ended has not actively asked to die (which is why I also oppose war and the death penalty — death is far too good to be used as a punishment). If the biological parents of the child do not want the child and/or are incapable of being exemplary parents (e.g., married to each other for life, loving, non-abusive), adoption (preferably open) should always be a live option.

About contraception: I also believe that human overpopulation is a big problem and the world population should be reduced, if not eliminated. However, since I believe that contraception is immoral, the only morally licit way to reduce overpopulation is to abstain from coitus. Here I disagree slightly with the Catholic Church. The Church believes that all forms of sex outside a lifelong, faithful, monogamous marriage are immoral. I can countenance non-penetrative sex (mutual masturbation, oral sex), which the Church would probably consider forms of sodomy. (I think the Catholic Church would say sodomy is not just anal sex between men, but almost all sex between two people that does not involve PIV: onanism is coitus interruptus and masturbation.) Although abstaining from coitus for life is difficult, it is possible. I am still technically a virgin (no coitus) at 55, even though when I was in my twenties, I engaged in mutual masturbation and oral sex. I did not realize then the Church considers those acts serious sins: I had thought they were sinful, but not mortal sins that can send someone to Hell if they remain unconfessed to a priest and unabsolved.

I do struggle a lot with the idea of suicide, even though I suspect I will probably ctb one of these days. I pray I would not go to Hell if I were to ctb, and fear that if I avoid Hell, I might languish in Purgatory for a long time. I want the souls of those who have ctb and are languishing in Purgatory to go swiftly to Heaven. The Catholic Church believes that praying for the souls of dead people helps them go to Heaven more quickly, so that is what I am doing.

Again, many thanks

Thank you for your response. Some really considered points also. I do enjoy discussions like this- helps me work out where I stand on difficult subjects.

Yes, I do take your point on abortion. Some people do go on to live fulfilling, happy lives despite the most horrendous back stories and there's no way of knowing how a person's life will turn out. I suppose because my thinking is distorted and I err on the side of death as a more positive thing than life, I tend to be skewed in my thinking.

Absolutely right about the death penalty being too good for some crimes. I suppose it depends on what the person fears though- Some criminals seem terrified to die- seems more preferable to a life in jail to me but I suppose you don't know until you are in that situation. There again- should we have the right to take anyone's life as a society? Especially- God forbid they were wrong convicted. I suppose that alone should be enough to argue against it.

Hmm, that's interesting- about contraception and your ways around it. I'm similar to you- a virgin at 42. Only engaged in the one player version myself- lol. I get the impression it's lust that the Catholic and Christian religions are against. Which honestly, I don't really understand- original sin and all that (if I have the interpretation right- I'm not massively knowledgeable on religions). I think there is this message that sex is bad- Mary with her virgin birth, Adam and Eve realising they were naked and feeling shame. I guess I don't like being trying made to feel guilty about stuff I haven't done. Fine- if I have sinned but not for a 'natural' act that we are designed to do.

Yes, purgatory sounds dreadful to me too. While I'm not massively convinced by the idea of heaven or hell- I'm perfectly prepared to believe the mind can conjure up either in its last moments. I imagine death would be a massive shock to the brain (even though we might have decided to do it ourselves). It wouldn't surprise me that this state of disorientation and confusion leads to a state of purgatory.

Anyhow. It's been interesting talking about these things with you. Maybe we can pray for each other if either of us goes first. It's been a while since I prayed to be honest but I think it's a very compassionate idea.

 

[Job Joad]

You'll be surprised how many "pro-lifers" are actually do gooder leftists hippie types. After you're out of the womb they actually worship human life and think they can create Utopia on earth. They can't fathom an anti-social viewpoint of just the wanting out of living. Most suicide hotlines are manned by leftist than right wingers.

 

[wait.what]

It doesn't bother me if someone wants to volunteer for a suicide prevention hotline. People who call those numbers are generally interested in living.

That said, you get out of any endevor about what you put in, and I don't really know what sort of effect anyone expects for 5 minutes of "help" per distraught person. If you really want to steer someone away from suicide, foster a child. Help establish or maintain a drop-in center that will keep kids occupied after school. Volunteer to provide companionship and/or transportation to adults with special needs, who are often at risk for severe isolation and loneliness. Donate what you can to any organization that works to keep people with substance abuse problems in treatment (which may help) instead of prison (which won't).

If any of our resident do-gooders looks at that list and thinks they don't have the time, energy, or money to do any of it, that's fine. It does indeed require a tremendous store of resources to help a despairing person make their life worth living again.

However--and this is the important bit--if you can't be bothered to do more than toss a few nasty posts into someone's "goodbye" thread on a suicide website, don't get your nose out of joint when the suicidal targets of your "help" tell you that they've already put in all the work they intend to toward improving their lives. I can guarantee that whatever they've done amounts to a lot more time and effort than you put into that four-sentence post about what a shining example to humanity you are, for still being among the breathing despite having had a bad life.

 

[noaccount]

You'll be surprised how many "pro-lifers" are actually do gooder leftists hippie types. After you're out of the womb they actually worship human life and think they can create Utopia on earth. They can't fathom an anti-social viewpoint of just the wanting out of living. Most suicide hotlines are manned by leftist than right wingers.

Sweetheart, I've never, ever been able to get a suicide hotline operator to understand even the most basic indictments of capitalism when explaining its context in forming my suicidality - and I've called many times.

 

[Just-a-Phase]

It seems as though recently there have been quite a few pro lifers around here

They've always been around. even in the reddit days.

 

[Maravillosa]

Thank you for your response. Some really considered points also. I do enjoy discussions like this- helps me work out where I stand on difficult subjects.

Yes, I do take your point on abortion. Some people do go on to live fulfilling, happy lives despite the most horrendous back stories and there's no way of knowing how a person's life will turn out. I suppose because my thinking is distorted and I err on the side of death as a more positive thing than life, I tend to be skewed in my thinking.

Absolutely right about the death penalty being too good for some crimes. I suppose it depends on what the person fears though- Some criminals seem terrified to die- seems more preferable to a life in jail to me but I suppose you don't know until you are in that situation. There again- should we have the right to take anyone's life as a society? Especially- God forbid they were wrong convicted. I suppose that alone should be enough to argue against it.

Hmm, that's interesting- about contraception and your ways around it. I'm similar to you- a virgin at 42. Only engaged in the one player version myself- lol. I get the impression it's lust that the Catholic and Christian religions are against. Which honestly, I don't really understand- original sin and all that (if I have the interpretation right- I'm not massively knowledgeable on religions). I think there is this message that sex is bad- Mary with her virgin birth, Adam and Eve realising they were naked and feeling shame. I guess I don't like being trying made to feel guilty about stuff I haven't done. Fine- if I have sinned but not for a 'natural' act that we are designed to do.

Yes, purgatory sounds dreadful to me too. While I'm not massively convinced by the idea of heaven or hell- I'm perfectly prepared to believe the mind can conjure up either in its last moments. I imagine death would be a massive shock to the brain (even though we might have decided to do it ourselves). It wouldn't surprise me that this state of disorientation and confusion leads to a state of purgatory.

Anyhow. It's been interesting talking about these things with you. Maybe we can pray for each other if either of us goes first. It's been a while since I prayed to be honest but I think it's a very compassionate idea.

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate it and agree with much of what you wrote. However, I noticed you wrote, "I think there is this message [in Christianity] that sex is bad." I hesitate to say that. The Catholic Church is against lust, but does not consider sex bad — sex is sacred, and therefore must be treated like other holy objects, with the utmost respect. There is a daily devotional book I read with the title He Speaks to You, by Sister Helena Burns, FSP (she is a Pauline Sister — the Pauline Sisters emphasize media outreach). Anyway, Sister Helena wrote the following in the entry for August 19:

Love/body/sex language says: fundamental — between a man and a woman who relate as persons not things, in love, not lust; free — not coerced; full — exclusive relationship, total gift, mutual exchange (marriage); faithful — permanent commitment; fruitful — open to new life (children).

Sister Helena calls the above "God's Five F's of True Love". She adds, "if one of the elements of true love is not present, the language of love/body/sex can be spoken as a lie." Sister Helena states these lies can be turned into true love once the truth is spoken. I think it is hard to see how a same-sex sexual relationship can be turned into true love under this rubric, for example (it can be free, full, and faithful, but it is incapable of being fundamental and fruitful), but that is what Sister Helena writes.

I realize this is going off on a tangent that is irrelevant to the topic of pro-lifers on this website, and if you wish to discuss this further, you may DM me.

Many thanks again!

 

[ojinzo]

they should be referred to as anti-choicers

Is there a rolls eyes icon