Venting Pro-lifers often take for granted things that are actually “beneficial” to helping others cope

[TAW122]

As a pro-choicer myself, throughout my life there are times where I did not choose to (imminently) CTB, but rather kick the CTB date and circumstance to a later time (especially due to holding on just a little longer). However, I do find it insulting and offensive that pro-lifers like to gloss over, downplay the factors that would keep me (or just about anyone else) from immediately or going towards CTB'ing. I know there are various points in my life where even though I'm a pro-choicer, I do stick around "just a bit" because things were tolerable enough such that I wouldn't want to CTB in a given time, but still hold onto the option. I have some stories that show how pro-lifers dismiss, downplay, or otherwise trivialize the factors that (ironically) allowed me to defer the action of (eventual) CTB to a much later time and not be actively wanting to CTB.

Story #1:
In this story, I recall one time talking about how meeting someone who I held high regards for helped me more than therapy, religion, and/or other bullshit that normies use as an outlet. However, the person listening (likely a pro-lifer no doubt), glossed over the fact that it wasn't the special person that helped me through my horrible times, but it was my own choice to overcome it myself and that it had to come from me (typical normie platitude bullshit). Of course, I then changed the subject and did not wish to press on it in more detail as it would likely not result in any positive gain or advantage for me. The ignorant normie is free to believe what they wish to believe in, but I am not going to waste my time and energy to argue with them which at best, only gives me a momentary token gesture and at worst, more scrutiny as well as criticism which makes me feel even shittier. Therefore, I just let them believe what they want and not press or argue with them further.

Story #2:
Another instance was quite a few years back when I was in university, I spoke with a counselor/mental health professional (since it was for free as part of my student tuition). (Keep in mind this was still pre-SaSu and right before Reddit shutdown the SaSu and TrueSaSu subreddits.) When I mentioned about how helpful another cope or how said person has made a positive influence on me, I was gaslit, dismissed, and even worse, assessed for risk as if my way of coping to prevent doing something "bad" or "harmful" was an issue. In short, I found that many pro-lifers and even mental health professionals they do something like PPAD (Paternalize, Pathlogize Assess and Diagnose) which is nothing short of just insulting and dismissive of one's own personal struggles and efforts of success. Luckily, while my interactions in that session did not result in worse consequences (such as getting locked up or having confidentiality broken, or other negative repercussions), it was still unnerving and off-putting for me to seek "help", which of course, at best did not help at all and at worst, put me at risk of being interfered with or made life worse. That was the last time I ever went out to see a professional (barring having to acquire documentation for certain situations and applications as per eligibility criteria).

There are many other instances and examples, but these two should already prove my point pretty sufficiently. I wrote this thread to highlight the ignorance of pro-lifers in how they overestimate, overlook, downplay and/or just outright dismiss the true factors that led to people not imminently wanting to CTB. Then they stick to their trite and often useless platitudes (and socially approved) ways of solving problems or overcoming things, which of course does not work for all people, especially people on here and various places. Nonetheless, I will continue to do what I believe that works for me (as long as it's not harmful towards others) and has had success in my life when it comes to coping and to hell with what pro-lifers and normies say!

 

[TheHuman]

People just blindly think that since life is for them, it is for EVERYONE. No life isn't for everyone, and not all of can "get through it" the truth is that we all are different. All that difference means is that we will not follow the same path, and some of just want to avoid that path which is life.

 

[FuneralCry]

I just think it's best to avoid talking to people like that in the first place in my opinion, they are so insensitive and ignorant, it's awful how other people just create even more suffering.

 

[TAW122]

People just blindly think that since life is for them, it is for EVERYONE. No life isn't for everyone, and not all of can "get through it" the truth is that we all are different. All that difference means is that we will not follow the same path, and some of just want to avoid that path which is life.

Very true, and yes, life is definitely not always worth it, contrary to what pro-lifers say. I know it isn't worth it in the long run and while I may still be alive now, I do know (and hope) that I will take my own when the time and circumstance comes, barring any other natural causes or other cause of death.

I just think it's best to avoid talking to people like that in the first place in my opinion, they are so insensitive and ignorant, it's awful how other people just create even more suffering.

Yes, nowadays I often avoid that subject, mainly because I know it's (at best) futile to have a discussion about it, and (at worst) could only create further complications and problems.

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Some similar threads I have written in the past, I wrote about limits and thresholds, which is about how one thing might be alright for one, but is just TOO MUCH for another. Each person's limit and thresholds are different and no two individuals are the same ever. This thread focuses a bit more on the things that one uses to cope is another thing for another person though.

Another thread is about the core argument about where the root of all the pro-lifers contention between us and them. If they simply just respected our right (to die on our own terms instead of imposing life at all costs), or give us (if they are able to) something that will incentivize us to hang on a bit longer or enough to not imminently wish to die (and this is NOT coercion, violence, forced detainment, and/or platitudes, useless drivel, but ACTUALLY something that will help our lives out!), then there would be much less strife and contention. However, we know they just don't and won't...

 

[todiefor]

I'm going to say something a little controversial please don't hate me. I don't agree with anything that invovles shoving your own values down someone else's throat and cannot empathise with that on either side, though I do in some sense understand pro-life perspective, they are just ignorant, in the sense that everyone know what physical pain is and can imagine the degree of it, but I think unless if you really truly experienced emotional pain that breaks you spiritually and kills your soul, it is difficult to empathise what it can really do to someone. I previously had thought I was a sadish person but I was largely fine just base line not very happy, it lead me to want to understand it more, I was even at one time a volunteer suicide helpline operator because I genuinely wanted to help people, I knew I wouldn't be able to help much at all but at least be able to talk to someone in trouble so they could feel less alone in that moment. In the past year however circumstances have let me to finally realise what true emotional pain and suffering can be, and I realised it really is cruel to not give people a choice. you experience a tipping point after which you feel like you will never be the same again and this has to be rock bottom, but then u just keep sinking lower into a bottomless pit of quicksand and there's no relief, no air. The level of pain is not something I could have understood before, no matter how empathetic I was. I think if there was a machine that could inflict that level of emotional pain on someone as a practise/one time experience, a lot more people will be able to understand and change their mind and become pro- choice, but also probably a lot more ctb.

 

[TAW122]

I'm going to say something a little controversial please don't hate me. I don't agree with anything that invovles shoving your own values down someone else's throat and cannot empathise with that on either side, though I do in some sense understand pro-life perspective, they are just ignorant, in the sense that everyone know what physical pain is and can imagine the degree of it, but I think unless if you really truly experienced emotional pain that breaks you spiritually and kills your soul, it is difficult to empathise what it can really do to someone. I previously had thought I was a sadish person but I was largely fine just base line not very happy, it lead me to want to understand it more, I was even at one time a volunteer suicide helpline operator because I genuinely wanted to help people, I knew I wouldn't be able to help much at all but at least be able to talk to someone in trouble so they could feel less alone in that moment. In the past year however circumstances have let me to finally realise what true emotional pain and suffering can be, and I realised it really is cruel to not give people a choice. you experience a tipping point after which you feel like you will never be the same again and this has to be rock bottom, but then u just keep sinking lower into a bottomless pit of quicksand and there's no relief, no air. The level of pain is not something I could have understood before, no matter how empathetic I was. I think if there was a machine that could inflict that level of emotional pain on someone as a practise/one time experience, a lot more people will be able to understand and change their mind and become pro- choice, but also probably a lot more ctb.

Thanks for sharing your story, and it makes sense. What you are saying is definitely on point especially about how people cannot really understand emotional and psychological pain. As for the latter part, I do agree that it is cruel to not give people a choice and that is something that most of us (pro-choicers) like to see in our world though it may/not happen in our lifetimes. On the last point, yes I do think if there was such a machine or program that would simulate the amount suffering one can go through, it would definitely change quite a few people's minds, albeit at the risk of pushing some people over the edge, so it becomes a matter of whether the "ends justify the means".

 

[todiefor]

Thank you for your thoughtful and kind response!

In hindsight I think I wasn't clear in saying that i was definitely always pro-choice, I just realised much later that even though I was pro-choice I still wasn't empathetic enough, I didn't fully appreciate how society very much shoves pro-life agenda down everyone's throats, it's very much basically subconsciously automatic, and very much without really realising the negative impact of their words on someone who really came to them for help.

Your two examples really clearly shows how easily and subconsciously that people do this, it comes across extremely dismissive and makes the world a more lonely place. It is sadly especially pervasive in the mental health profession, I think the training basically tells you to use a pro-forma approach, even when people's goal is to be empathetic often they really fail because their text books tell them to do things a certain way, or they simply cannot empathise at the level they need. I'm sorry you had these experiences, sounds like they really turned you off key moments where you felt safe enough to say what's really on your mind and have had it twisted into something else, they really didnt listen to what you were actually saying, it is really disappointing. Even if they didn't mean to be thoughtless they really were.

I also really wanted to apologise for my post. I wrote it while half asleep and I woke up in the middle of the night realising I really didnt address anything you said, and merely said what was on my mind at the time having been prompted by your thought provoking thread. I wanted to delete it but it was too late. It must have came across extremely insensitive, much like the people you mentioned in your post! I'm very sorry.

 

[TAW122]

No need to apologize, it made sense and you weren't really attacking anyone but simply sharing your perspective. I can understand some pro-lifers who share certain views even if I vehemently disagree with them. The worst kinds of pro-lifers are the ones who impose their life loving world view onto everyone and those I have nothing but contempt for. I'm glad that you are at least able to see the other side of the argument (the pro-choice one) instead of just outright dismissing it.