Pro-lifers are the ones that are selfish not us.

[kamikaze_shark04]

Do you agree?

 

[Dayrain]

Yes, for me it was never a discussion really. It is obvious for me. The patterns are always the same.

 

[watchingfigsdrop]

hard agree. I am having to postpone my ctb (I really badly wanted it to be my birthday gift to myself) however due to lack of available resources, I will have to wait a length of time to receive my materials in the mail. It's silly to me that the best methods are barred from purchase. I'm just going to do it anyway, and be more likely to ruin everything than if I had access to, say, N.

Question though- I don't understand why methods/information on them are so widely hidden. Is the idea truly that this will prevent folks ctb? My belief is that if someone truly wants to ctb, they will make an attempt. If information is not readily available, we increase the probability of failure. I would make the leap to guess that the majority of people attempting are not wealthy. Hospital bills, future disability and government sanctioned medical care are just going to cost the state more. Many countries struggle with overpopulation. Why would it be preferable to hide this information, and dish out tax money to people who could not get the job done? Would it not be in governments best interests to provide information? And the money that goes into treating and helping people who had failed attempts, instead fuel into preventative mental health programs rather than rubber rooms? I just don't get it, if someone can explain it to me, that would be welcomed.

Edit: seems sort of parallel to preaching abstinence in high schools instead of safe sex, lol.

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

In my opinion, I don't like to play the whole "you're selfish!" "no, you're selfish!" game. If we're being honest with ourselves, we are all selfish. We wouldn't be very good living beings if we weren't on some level. And selfishness is not necessarily the instant "bad" label a lot of people think it is. But both sides of the issue of the Right to Die are guilty of some level of selfishness one way or another.

Think about it. Pro-lifers wish to selfishly keep us trapped here the best they can, always moving to restrict access to the latest method in vogue, leaving only the classic, more brutal and difficult-to-pull-off methods available. We, on the other hand, selfishly want to act in our own self-interest and personal well-being by CTBing, ignoring the wishes of others around us and the greater whole of "society". Each side is only concerned with what they feel is the right way to go about things.

This is all to say, I agree. They are selfish. In my opinion, they should let people decide what happens to their own lives and stay the hell out of our business. But I see the issue with Pro-lifers as more of an issue of collectivism, where the overall well-being of the group is prioritized over the individuals that make it up; "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" and all that. If individuals drop off the Earth voluntarily, then that's less tax revenue, less consumption of products and services, less productivity, etc. There is, of course, much more to the issue with Pro-lifers, but I don't exactly feel like writing a whole book about it here since it's getting late for me. TAW here on SS and ExistentialGoof on Reddit/Twitter have written extensively about them, and I feel their arguments against them hold much more value and weight than a mere slap of a "selfish" label. I don't think doing the "selfish" blame game will take us anywhere meaningful, since both parties can be reasonably found guilty of it if you pick at both sides' motivations. And even if one side is found guilty of being more selfish over the other, which tbh I'd say the Pro-lifers would be in this hypothetical ruling, what then?

Idk, just something to think about I guess.

 

[banger12]

I think everyone is selfish in the equation. There I'd no way around that. It's just that pro-lifers are selfish in a more harmful and destructive way.

 

[uwufox777]

This is resonating with me a lot lately, but I feel that selfishness isn't something that can be measured. I think it goes both ways, and its an unfortunate reality.

However.. those who do not know me, yet dictate how I choose to live my life? Absolutely agreed. Their opinion should not matter if they have nothing to do with me. I see it as self-righteousness. I despise people who try to push their views on me that wouldn't otherwise bother to be involved in my life.

 

[SilentSadness]

Selfishness is all humans are capable of, altruism is motivated by emotions. Yes they are selfish but we are too. The human condition is to prioritise oneself in the zero sum game of life. (This is a venting reply.)

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

Selfishness is all humans are capable of, altruism is motivated by emotions. Yes they are selfish but we are too. The human condition is to prioritise oneself in the zero sum game of life. (This is a venting reply.)

Well said. I believe in philosophy this is generally called "Egoism", which you may be familiar with. Our egos drive everything we do. Hell, my own ego right now thinks I have something worth saying and worth reading for others, and so here I am writing this comment. Even selfless acts are driven by self-interest. There's a philosopher by the name of Philipp Mainländer, from whom I've pasted a quote of theirs in my signature, who argued for this "Egoism". You may find this argument interesting:

Every deed of man, the most noble as well as the lowest one, is egoistic; it flows out of his determined individuality, a determined I, with a sufficient motive, and can in no way not take place. The cause for the difference between all characters, here, it is not the place to go into detail on that; we simply have to accept it as a fact. It is for the compassionate as impossible to let his neighbors live in need, as it is for the hardhearted to help them. Both of them live according to their character, their nature, their I, according to their happiness, so egoistically; because if the compassionate does not dry the tears of others, is he happy? And if the hardhearted alleviates the sufferings of others, is he satisfied?