Discussion [Poll] To what extent do you think suicidality is a modern phenomenon?

[Zazacosta]

I think culture is pretty well-defined. If I say "French culture includes a focus on art in many forms, found in museums as well as exquisite architecture, and the people tend to value tranquility - except when they're beheading leaders that stress them out too much - believing life should be enjoyed rather than wasted away working, the French people frequent cafes and eat baguettes and croque monsiuers along with a variety of what is regarded as excellent cuisine, also mimes and cigarettes and racism towards anyone who looks like they might be muslim outside of Paris" it is not a valid opinion to say "no, France doesn't have culture. It just doesn't. Doesn't exist." You could say "eh, but that's all shit imo" and I'd think you have bad taste, but at least it would be defensible. Saying it simply isn't culture is not something reasonable to say.

It is very difficult to debate about such thing which is so comprehensive and all-meaningful like culture.
I believe culture is not very well defined. Culture can be prettty much everything somebody consider a culture.
From the wikipedia definition - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture

Culture (/ˈkʌltʃər/ KUL-chər) is a concept that encompasses the social behavior, institutions, and norms found in human societies, as well as the knowledge, beliefs, arts, laws, customs, capabilities, and habits of the individuals in these groups.[1] Culture is often originated from or attributed to a specific region or location.

Culture is considered a central concept in anthropology, encompassing the range of phenomena that are transmitted through social learning in human societies. Cultural universals are found in all human societies. These include expressive forms like art, music, dance, ritual, religion, and technologies like tool usage, cooking, shelter, and clothing. The concept of material culture covers the physical expressions of culture, such as technology, architecture and art, whereas the immaterial aspects of culture such as principles of social organization (including practices of political organization and social institutions), mythology, philosophy, literature (both written and oral), and science comprise the intangible cultural heritage of a society.[5]

Even this definition is problematic. On few rows of text, it mentions so many things which can be considered as culture...
One example. I do not believe that everybody considers for example tool usage as a culture.

 

[derpyderpins]

It is very difficult to debate about such thing which is so comprehensive and all-meaningful like culture.
I believe culture is not very well defined. Culture can be prettty much everything somebody consider a culture.
From the wikipedia definition - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture

Culture (/ˈkʌltʃər/ KUL-chər) is a concept that encompasses the social behavior, institutions, and norms found in human societies, as well as the knowledge, beliefs, arts, laws, customs, capabilities, and habits of the individuals in these groups.[1] Culture is often originated from or attributed to a specific region or location.

Culture is considered a central concept in anthropology, encompassing the range of phenomena that are transmitted through social learning in human societies. Cultural universals are found in all human societies. These include expressive forms like art, music, dance, ritual, religion, and technologies like tool usage, cooking, shelter, and clothing. The concept of material culture covers the physical expressions of culture, such as technology, architecture and art, whereas the immaterial aspects of culture such as principles of social organization (including practices of political organization and social institutions), mythology, philosophy, literature (both written and oral), and science comprise the intangible cultural heritage of a society.[5]

Even this definition is problematic. On few rows of text, it mentions so many things which can be considered as culture...
One example. I do not believe that everybody considers for example tool usage as a culture.

View attachment 138106

I don't think it's hard at all. It's a very broad definition. It's not saying "culture is X or Y or Z," it's saying "culture includes X and Y and Z," so if one person says "I consider tools invented to be culture" and one says "I consider architecture to be culture," they're both right. Makes the statement that America has never had any culture even more ridiculous.

 

[Zazacosta]

I don't think it's hard at all. It's a very broad definition. It's not saying "culture is X or Y or Z," it's saying "culture includes X and Y and Z," so if one person says "I consider tools invented to be culture" and one says "I consider architecture to be culture," they're both right. Makes the statement that America has never had any culture even more ridiculous.

True. I have not said that America has no culture.
My opinion is as I stated before is that every country/region has some "cultures" which are very positive (or you could say high) and some which are not so positive and even negative ( you could say low).
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If I try to dig deep into this, one example of very high American "culture" is Jazz music. I love music a lot. I even did some music on myself. Even that Jazz is on the periphery of my interest, I cannot disregard how Jazz affected all modern music. Nearly every modern genre nowadays was affected by Jazz music in some point of his evolution. That is undebatable. Pop, Rock, Metal, Punk, Hip-Hop/Rap, Techno, Trance, Dnb... literally EVERYTHING was affected by Jazz music at least a little. And what is more to point out, Jazz music definitelly originated in USA.

If somebody wanted to delete Jazz music and everything what came from that, then we should also delete whole 2 centuries of music. What would remain? Mozart, Beethowen and Haydn? Imagine their music in ALL modern clubs, radios, televisions, advertisments...
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From your example I would like to point out also onto this:
But what if one says "this tool is a culture" and another say "no, this tool is just old garbage". Even both can be right. From their point of view.

 

[ham and potatoes]

What do you guys think?

I dont think its a modern phenomenon at all. wiki on suicide in antiquity
What is modern is that now there are much more easy ways to do it. think in ancient times, you either had to hang yourself, stab yourself, or eat some poisonous plant
now we have tall buildings and bridges to jump from, many drugs we can OD on, firearms, and so on.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

People have always killed themselves and will continue to kill themselves. Suicide isn't a modern phenomenon but that isn't to say that the modern environment isn't contributing towards suicides because... it is. Some people are dying because of the current system and how hard it is to live. Everything is getting more expensive and unaffordable which is making more people realise the truth about the system. They can't easily justify it via cope because everything is getting more expensive

 

[4am]

I meant Europe as in Western Europe, duh