Perceived Lack of Artistic Talent Leading to Suicidal Thoughts

[CarambaAlbum]

I want this to be a bit of an open thread for any creatives (art. music, writing, sculpture, ect.) that feel as if their own hatred of their artistic talents partially or majorly contributes to the desire to end your life. I'll give a long winded example:

One of my favorite artists of all time is Bryan Lewis Saunders, his way of drawing self portraits is truly inspiring and I feel a lot of other artists here would great benefit checking out his work. Unfortunately comparing myself to him is almost impossible not to do so the only way I ever make any art now is when I'm drunk. I sneak in booze into a public park and slash at one of my drawing pads viciously, scribbling down all of my self hatred into the page. I only finish when I've drank the whole bottle (70cl of hard liquor) and stumble around the city in a drunken state before ripping out the sheet and sliding it under the door of a "mental health centre" that had fucked me over hard previously as some way of saying "fuck you" to them. Extremely petty, I know. I've stopped since they've threatened to contact the police if I keep doing it.

The art has all been lost but here's a picture of the sketch book I've used for it:



Now recently I tried to get back into art sober but after buying around $50 of art equipment yesterday I just returned it all for a full refund. I just can't fucking stand my art or anything I create. The bandwidth my inane ramblings and shitwork take up could be used for something even remotely more competent and put together. I feel like a waste of space even on the Internet. I feel like I'm heading closer and closer to my goal of ending things, the bad guys won and all the good art has been made.

But what do you think? Maybe we can confide within eachother and share similar experiences, it could make us all feel a bit better (or at least heard).

 

[Iva]

I want this to be a bit of an open thread for any creatives (art. music, writing, sculpture, ect.) that feel as if their own hatred of their artistic talents partially or majorly contributes to the desire to end your life. I'll give a long winded example:

One of my favorite artists of all time is Bryan Lewis Saunders, his way of drawing self portraits is truly inspiring and I feel a lot of other artists here would great benefit checking out his work. Unfortunately comparing myself to him is almost impossible not to do so the only way I ever make any art now is when I'm drunk. I sneak in booze into a public park and slash at one of my drawing pads viciously, scribbling down all of my self hatred into the page. I only finish when I've drank the whole bottle (70cl of hard liquor) and stumble around the city in a drunken state before ripping out the sheet and sliding it under the door of a "mental health centre" that had fucked me over hard previously as some way of saying "fuck you" to them. Extremely petty, I know. I've stopped since they've threatened to contact the police if I keep doing it.

The art has all been lost but here's a picture of the sketch book I've used for it:

View attachment 114788

Now recently I tried to get back into art sober but after buying around $50 of art equipment yesterday I just returned it all for a full refund. I just can't fucking stand my art or anything I create. The bandwidth my inane ramblings and shitwork take up could be used for something even remotely more competent and put together. I feel like a waste of space even on the Internet. I feel like I'm heading closer and closer to my goal of ending things, the bad guys won and all the good art has been made.

But what do you think? Maybe we can confide within eachother and share similar experiences, it could make us all feel a bit better (or at least heard).

Perhaps your drunk art is good because you vent your frustrations of how that mental health centre wronged you into the paper. Everytime you create art and slip it under the doors of that mental health centre, you are starting your art off with a purpose. "This art will be for a purpose"
the art that you create when you're sober has no purpose and is only for your "enjoyment" which you don't seem to enjoy. you have a rolemodel when it comes to art so you definitely have a goal of how your art should be.
I'm not an artist but I've competed in MMA for a few years now. I have only ever won 2 of my 8 fights and the only 2 I won were because I had a purpose or a reason to win them. the first fight I despised my opponent and the second fight was to qualify for a regional championship in Tirana. All the fights where my opponents were friendly to me or were just a stranger to me, I'd failed. I think your artwork is similar. You can't seem to articulate your thoughts onto the page because you truly don't know what you're drawing for anymore.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'm creative too- so, I do understand the creative temperament. Nothing we ever do is going to be good enough in our eyes. It becomes a LOT more painful if you have someone you aspire to and you know you'll never reach their level- or- even come close.

If I'm honest though- sometimes I think you just have to be realistic with yourself. I think we all kind of know where our strengths and weaknesses are. Like- if you KNOW you have no sense of form- don't try and be Michelangelo. Still admire them- yes but like you might do Einstein. They have something we likely won't ever get to- no matter how hard we try. Sometimes- it's being cruel on ourselves to compare ourselves to that.

That said- I bet you DO have strengths. More importantly- I'd say creativity is expression. It can be meditative. The process itself can be soothing and that's important. Plus- it's so subjective. Your work sounds like it's full of angst and anger. People can respect the authenticity in that.

I went to see an exhibition at the Hayward Gallery in London of 'Art from the Assylum'- or- something like that... Not saying you're crazy of course!! They weren't trained Artists- people still paid money to see it because they were curious. Art isn't always about technical skill. Plenty of it is about expression and individuality- and you're an individual who likes to express themselves- I think you should! You have as much right as anyone else to do it. Yeah- some people might be horrible about it but you don't even need to show them. Plenty of people just do stuff for themselves.

I really hope you can. Art has been my crutch throughout life. I would have been lost without it.

 

[CarambaAlbum]

Perhaps your drunk art is good because you vent your frustrations of how that mental health centre wronged you into the paper. Everytime you create art and slip it under the doors of that mental health centre, you are starting your art off with a purpose. "This art will be for a purpose"
the art that you create when you're sober has no purpose and is only for your "enjoyment" which you don't seem to enjoy. you have a rolemodel when it comes to art so you definitely have a goal of how your art should be.
I'm not an artist but I've competed in MMA for a few years now. I have only ever won 2 of my 8 fights and the only 2 I won were because I had a purpose or a reason to win them. the first fight I despised my opponent and the second fight was to qualify for a regional championship in Tirana. All the fights where my opponents were friendly to me or were just a stranger to me, I'd failed. I think your artwork is similar. You can't seem to articulate your thoughts onto the page because you truly don't know what you're drawing for anymore.

Thank you for replying, thats a really good way to look at it. To have a purpose to create could be what I need, to do it for my own pleasure makes it seem like a massive waste, a burden to everyone else. I look at Bryan's work and think way less of my stuff or worse, I feel as though I need to do something really crazy and intense in order to be a good artist which is a really dark rabbit hole. I often find myself thinking the latter.

I'm creative too- so, I do understand the creative temperament. Nothing we ever do is going to be good enough in our eyes. It becomes a LOT more painful if you have someone you aspire to and you know you'll never reach their level- or- even come close.

If I'm honest though- sometimes I think you just have to be realistic with yourself. I think we all kind of know where our strengths and weaknesses are. Like- if you KNOW you have no sense of form- don't try and be Michelangelo. Still admire them- yes but like you might do Einstein. They have something we likely won't ever get to- no matter how hard we try. Sometimes- it's being cruel on ourselves to compare ourselves to that.

That said- I bet you DO have strengths. More importantly- I'd say creativity is expression. It can be meditative. The process itself can be soothing and that's important. Plus- it's so subjective. Your work sounds like it's full of angst and anger. People can respect the authenticity in that.

I went to see an exhibition at the Hayward Gallery in London of 'Art from the Assylum'- or- something like that... Not saying you're crazy of course!! They weren't trained Artists- people still paid money to see it because they were curious. Art isn't always about technical skill. Plenty of it is about expression and individuality- and you're an individual who likes to express themselves- I think you should! You have as much right as anyone else to do it. Yeah- some people might be horrible about it but you don't even need to show them. Plenty of people just do stuff for themselves.

I really hope you can. Art has been my crutch throughout life. I would have been lost without it.

Thank you for replying and giving your thoughts. Art used to help me but right now its like when I take painkillers to dull my toothache - it's temporary, a plaster over a horrid, gaping wound. Some days I think I'm actually liked for the art and other days I feel like I'm committing a crime against society by even leaving my hostel. To escape my own failures is a pipe dream it seems, at least in this life.

I've thought about that kind of label, the "outsider artist" and I don't know if I want to be pigeonholed into it. It definitely, whether we like it or not, suggests a certain amateur quality just from the label alone. Such a broad brush has been painted as equally onto Wesley Willis, who's work is deliberately offensive and crass with Daniel Johnston who is genuinely one of the best singer-songwriters to have ever lived. Bryan Lewis Saunders gets given that label too. Although I'll be quite honest, I feel like I'd only be slightly included in those discussions once I've killed myself. I don't think me or a lot of other people would've heard of Bryan Charnley without this video explaining his last paintings before his suicide. It's a scenario I'm certain will happen to me but to a much lesser extent, just fodder for a "creepy" YouTube channel. Sorry for the rant.

I don't know what the point of this all is, getting a little spaced out. Like Im not as connected with what I'm saying but I'm still interested in what you all have to say but not what I have to say. If that makes sense.

 

[SexyIncél]

I'm not an artist but I've competed in MMA for a few years now. I have only ever won 2 of my 8 fights and the only 2 I won were because I had a purpose or a reason to win them.

Great point! I too think a Cause is vital. It could be some important social need, or an individual you're intensely impressed by (muse). Such a cause is great, because you can make art customized for them. And you can go cross-genre, brimming with ideas, because "whatever works, works"

 

[Install-Gentoo]

I attempted artistic pursuits for two years and after trying extremely hard to improve, I finally discovered my "permanent beginner's disease". It was this that led me to find out I am actually incapable of getting better at any practiced skills, rendering life pointless. Why engage in any hobby at all, if I'll never get better at it? Why get a job, when there's nothing worthwhile to support with that job? Why live, if there's nothing to do with my life?
So yes, "talent" is absolutely 100% a thing. Talent is like a skill multiplier that helps some people improve faster with the same amount of work. Some people have very little talent and will take decades to show any improvement. Some people have some kind of autism and permanent beginner syndrome, and will never improve at anything.

 

[absolomonisgone]

I want this to be a bit of an open thread for any creatives (art. music, writing, sculpture, ect.) that feel as if their own hatred of their artistic talents partially or majorly contributes to the desire to end your life. I'll give a long winded example:

One of my favorite artists of all time is Bryan Lewis Saunders, his way of drawing self portraits is truly inspiring and I feel a lot of other artists here would great benefit checking out his work. Unfortunately comparing myself to him is almost impossible not to do so the only way I ever make any art now is when I'm drunk. I sneak in booze into a public park and slash at one of my drawing pads viciously, scribbling down all of my self hatred into the page. I only finish when I've drank the whole bottle (70cl of hard liquor) and stumble around the city in a drunken state before ripping out the sheet and sliding it under the door of a "mental health centre" that had fucked me over hard previously as some way of saying "fuck you" to them. Extremely petty, I know. I've stopped since they've threatened to contact the police if I keep doing it.

The art has all been lost but here's a picture of the sketch book I've used for it:

View attachment 114788

Now recently I tried to get back into art sober but after buying around $50 of art equipment yesterday I just returned it all for a full refund. I just can't fucking stand my art or anything I create. The bandwidth my inane ramblings and shitwork take up could be used for something even remotely more competent and put together. I feel like a waste of space even on the Internet. I feel like I'm heading closer and closer to my goal of ending things, the bad guys won and all the good art has been made.

But what do you think? Maybe we can confide within eachother and share similar experiences, it could make us all feel a bit better (or at least heard).

Maybe you should read a chapter in the book "denial of death". There's a chapter about art and artists.----, oh. The only thing people remember about me is the artist. I was so good at art---, aha. At 12 or thereabouts, I'd make perfect portraits of classmates, teachers, etc. I'd make comic books ---, sculpture ---, I was a wonder.
Then I went to secondary school - only the art teacher saw my talent. He tried to cultivate my talent, but then, it was agreed art would take me nowhere ---, and so began the journey of studying skill sets ---, where 1+1 = 2; and that's very important and I should feel very important to be previledged to know that 1+1=2.
Then I got a job where nobody cared 1+1=2. They told me, 1+1= what the boss says or how much money we make.Then I got tired of making up 1+1 to be anything. I decided to go teach kids that 1+1 =2.
Aha. Then they told me that there's no way I can prove that 1+1=2 unless I write a PhD thesis on why I think they should believe 1+1=2. So I had to write a 200 page thesis explaining what 1, 2 and = is and give a lot of referencing from Pascal, Newton and dozens of people who have referenced Pascal and Newton.
Then, they said that was not enough. So as not to forget 1+1=2, they told me I must keep publishing about 1+1=2.
And then a first year student decides that I don't seem to know 1+1=2. You know, they have to evaluate your knowledge of 1+1=2. And if you don't smile and treat them like Gods and acknowledge their great intellect of finally knowing 1+1=2...., They evaluate you poorly.
And I asked myself...., What the hell is this? I should have just have stayed an artist.
Ps: I like ranting

 

[CarambaAlbum]

I attempted artistic pursuits for two years and after trying extremely hard to improve, I finally discovered my "permanent beginner's disease". It was this that led me to find out I am actually incapable of getting better at any practiced skills, rendering life pointless. Why engage in any hobby at all, if I'll never get better at it? Why get a job, when there's nothing worthwhile to support with that job? Why live, if there's nothing to do with my life?
So yes, "talent" is absolutely 100% a thing. Talent is like a skill multiplier that helps some people improve faster with the same amount of work. Some people have very little talent and will take decades to show any improvement. Some people have some kind of autism and permanent beginner syndrome, and will never improve at anything.

Thanks for replying and sharing your experience. This is definitely relatable. The only two drawing styles I'm comfortable with are a very cartoony, cute style that isn't at all developed with flat poses, angles, perspectives, ect. and a really ugly style that I use to make that drunk, angry art I mentioned above. Either style I'm not happy with and see so many people do a lot better than me. I just feel like a total embarrassment.

Maybe you should read a chapter in the book "denial of death". There's a chapter about art and artists.----, oh. The only thing people remember about me is the artist. I was so good at art---, aha. At 12 or thereabouts, I'd make perfect portraits of classmates, teachers, etc. I'd make comic books ---, sculpture ---, I was a wonder.
Then I went to secondary school - only the art teacher saw my talent. He tried to cultivate my talent, but then, it was agreed art would take me nowhere ---, and so began the journey of studying skill sets ---, where 1+1 = 2; and that's very important and I should feel very important to be previledged to know that 1+1=2.
Then I got a job where nobody cared 1+1=2. They told me, 1+1= what the boss says or how much money we make.Then I got tired of making up 1+1 to be anything. I decided to go teach kids that 1+1 =2.
Aha. Then they told me that there's no way I can prove that 1+1=2 unless I write a PhD thesis on why I think they should believe 1+1=2. So I had to write a 200 page thesis explaining what 1, 2 and = is and give a lot of referencing from Pascal, Newton and dozens of people who have referenced Pascal and Newton.
Then, they said that was not enough. So as not to forget 1+1=2, they told me I must keep publishing about 1+1=2.
And then a first year student decides that I don't seem to know 1+1=2. You know, they have to evaluate your knowledge of 1+1=2. And if you don't smile and treat them like Gods and acknowledge their great intellect of finally knowing 1+1=2...., They evaluate you poorly.
And I asked myself...., What the hell is this? I should have just have stayed an artist.
Ps: I like ranting

Thanks for replying to the thread, I also like to rant!

That's an interesting metaphor, there's something freeing about being in a medium that has rules that can be broken versus rules that need to be proven or studied or researched in order to show if they are objectively wrong or not.